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MaGL4 - Rules & Questions (SUBMISSIONS OVER)

would you like to participate in some fun contests? would you like to create some fun contests? well ^_^
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Scarfley »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 years ago Putting a quantifier of quality on a work of art, even something as minor as a Mario fan level is pointless and subjective, and even if it wasn't, there's always a specific kind of level ethos that always wins these contests due to unconscious bias, of course, not saying it's undeserved. I started this just to get the mood of making SMW levels back into talkhaus. I'd like to see some new Standard and Kaizo level makers come out of this and a secret project I have in mind, keeping quiet on what it is to not burn people out.
I understand where you are coming from. Art (and thus also level design) is always going to be subjective and therefore impossible to judge entirely fairly. That's why having multiple judges is so important for this kind of contest. I generally think that although winning first place is cool and really impressive, it would be nice to also have ways to honor the efforts of other stages outside the Top 3 (besides Judge's Favourites). The MaGL series does sort of accomplish this with raocow's LPs of them which usually spark interest in discussing the stages on their own merits. (Although the recent (?) addition to some Level Design Contests that some stages receive special prizes (such as prettiest Level, best use of this enemy, etc.) in addition to their placement in the contest is a welcome inclusion which will hopefully stay around.) I also agree that it is better to not enter a contest like this with the ultimate goal of winning it and instead entering it with the intent of having fun and making something that you or others may enjoy.

By the way, I also want to thank you for sparking interest in SMW hacking and the MaGL series again on talkhaus. I wanted to participate in a MaGL since quite a while now (I discovered raocow after MaGL3) and finally getting the chance to do so is weirdly surreal and super cool. It's super nice to see someone being so passionate about SMW Hacking on this site and how much that can inspire others! :D
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Scarfley wrote: 2 years ago By the way, I also want to thank you for sparking interest in SMW hacking and the MaGL series again on talkhaus. I wanted to participate in a MaGL since quite a while now (I discovered raocow after MaGL3) and finally getting the chance to do so is weirdly surreal and super cool. It's super nice to see someone being so passionate about SMW Hacking on this site and how much that can inspire others! :D
Thanks! I've been following raocow since around Bunny Must Die (started following his playthroughs around the Hack 1 LP/TSRP2 replay), and what got me interested in him was his VIP and Wall Mix LPs that I used as walkthroughs. Something about Japanese styled hacks just inspires me to make levels, they're wonderfully creative and challenging. I'm not the best at it yet, but I hope to be of VIP Quality someday.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Lespna1 »

-Levels may have dragon coins and moons, but secret exits are not allowed.
Do you mean secret exits as in secret rooms and bonus rooms or you just cannot get a key or something to go to a different level on the map?
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Lespna1 wrote: 2 years ago
-Levels may have dragon coins and moons, but secret exits are not allowed.
Do you mean secret exits as in secret rooms and bonus rooms or you just cannot get a key or something to go to a different level on the map?
Just only one exit, to avoid the VLDC(9?) issue of every level having an extraneous alternate exit. In short, a yellow level. Let me know if I'm still being confusing for you.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Lespna1 »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 years ago
Lespna1 wrote: 2 years ago
-Levels may have dragon coins and moons, but secret exits are not allowed.
Do you mean secret exits as in secret rooms and bonus rooms or you just cannot get a key or something to go to a different level on the map?
Just only one exit, to avoid the VLDC(9?) issue of every level having an extraneous alternate exit. In short, a yellow level. Let me know if I'm still being confusing for you.
Thanks, I just wanted to make sure, but it's fine now.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Lespna1 »

What if we submit something and then decide we want to update it: do we have to upload it on a different website and then just update the submissions thread or is there something there so we just upload a new .BPS patch?
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Lespna1 wrote: 2 years ago What if we submit something and then decide we want to update it: do we have to upload it on a different website and then just update the submissions thread or is there something there so we just upload a new .BPS patch?
Just edit your post accordingly, I think (keyword: think) you can replace attachments on talkhaus, while on SMWC there's the File Bin.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Scarfley »

Yes, what KobaBeach said is right.
On talkhaus, you can find the option to add or delete an attachment beneath the box you write your post in.
If you update your entry, you can simply edit your original post by deleting the old attachment and uploading the updated version of your submission instead.
There is no need to upload your entry to a different website unless you want to of course.
If you do upload it to a different website, you have to make sure that you include a link in your post that leads to the new version of your entry on said website.
I also recommend trying to download the entry you submitted/updated yourself to make sure the download works properly.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Lespna1 »

Okay, where it says "Attachments"?
Also, I am afraid to ask this, but I found out about the contest late. I am trying to work hard on my level, but is there a chance that there might be a short extension? Last time, I think I remember, it was on SMWCentral also, and there were like 65 entries or so. So far, there are only a few.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Lespna1 wrote: 2 years ago Also, I am afraid to ask this, but I found out about the contest late. I am trying to work hard on my level, but is there a chance that there might be a short extension? Last time, I think I remember, it was on SMWCentral also, and there were like 65 entries or so. So far, there are only a few.
There is a lull in interest on SMW hacking on talkhaus compared to previously due to raocow playing less Mario, which in turn is due to less interesting Standard SMW hacks being released these days, as well as the Patreon requests taking over.

SMW hacking in general seems to be more focused on Kaizo, JUMP and "traditional" levels for now, that should explain the low entries. I'm expecting the last week to see a few more. Even then there seems to be roughly 10 as of this post, which isn't too bad a number either way.

Extensions are more Valentine's wheelhouse since she's running the contest but, just make your best. Even if you get a low ranking, the point is to have fun making levels.
Lespna1 wrote: 2 years ago Okay, where it says "Attachments"?
Yeah, on the bottom of the posting textbox next to Options, open its tab then click Add Files.

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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Valentine »

2 people have asked for an extension so far, i'm hesitant to give it as to not butt into the judge's schedules, but if there's more people who ask i may extended the deadline by probably at most 5-6 days
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by raocow »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 years ago
There is a lull in interest on SMW hacking on talkhaus compared to previously due to raocow playing less Mario, which in turn is due to less interesting Standard SMW hacks being released these days, as well as the Patreon requests taking over.

SMW hacking in general seems to be more focused on Kaizo, JUMP and "traditional" levels for now, that should explain the low entries. I'm expecting the last week to see a few more. Even then there seems to be roughly 10 as of this post, which isn't too bad a number either way.

Extensions are more Valentine's wheelhouse since she's running the contest but, just make your best. Even if you get a low ranking, the point is to have fun making levels.
weird inversion of causation there, lion

everyone mostly makes kaizo or hacks for streamers now, which I'm way less interested in. This is why I'm interested in probing at a wider range of interest of games.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

raocow wrote: 2 years ago weird inversion of causation there, lion

everyone mostly makes kaizo or hacks for streamers now, which I'm way less interested in. This is why I'm interested in probing at a wider range of interest of games.
Sorry!
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Lord Ruby »

raocow wrote: 2 years ago
KobaBeach wrote: 2 years ago
There is a lull in interest on SMW hacking on talkhaus compared to previously due to raocow playing less Mario, which in turn is due to less interesting Standard SMW hacks being released these days, as well as the Patreon requests taking over.

SMW hacking in general seems to be more focused on Kaizo, JUMP and "traditional" levels for now, that should explain the low entries. I'm expecting the last week to see a few more. Even then there seems to be roughly 10 as of this post, which isn't too bad a number either way.

Extensions are more Valentine's wheelhouse since she's running the contest but, just make your best. Even if you get a low ranking, the point is to have fun making levels.
weird inversion of causation there, lion

everyone mostly makes kaizo or hacks for streamers now, which I'm way less interested in. This is why I'm interested in probing at a wider range of interest of games.
Well, it could go both ways, to some extent, I guess?

But I suspect the main reason we see so few hacks (and adjacent things) these days is that now people would rather direct their creative game design energy toward making completely original games. Streamer hacks being an exception because it's a way of making parasocial interactions more reciprocal, there's a social dimension to it.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Lord Ruby wrote: 2 years ago But I suspect the main reason we see so few hacks (and adjacent things) these days is that now people would rather direct their creative game design energy toward making completely original games. Streamer hacks being an exception because it's a way of making parasocial interactions more reciprocal, there's a social dimension to it.
I can't really speak on whether people would rather learn how to make original indie games or not, but Kaizo seems mostly held up by parasocial interactions, yeah. I saw someone on SMWC claim it's the first time SMW was ever truly healthy, but to me a lot of it seems to predicate on again, parasocial interactions, like people who make levels for ProtonJon or people who ask LPers to play their hacks. Time is cyclical.

I want to make a Strategy RPG so bad but I can't draw or make music...
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Grounder »

Just popping into say that kaizo can be a lot more forgiving than it used to be, not that that's always the case (and far from it).
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Grounder wrote: 2 years ago Just popping into say that kaizo can be a lot more forgiving than it used to be, not that that's always the case (and far from it).
(delaying my reply to not take over the thread) At least on my end, I am not saying that kaizo is still YouTube level stuff. I wholeheartedly respect efforts like Morsel's and other big name kaizo authors.

I will say it gives off a different kind of satisfaction than Standard to me and compared to a VIP or Hyper, it's a shallow feeling satisfaction since you're basically grinding and doing the inputs until you make it through with proper timing. With hard and very hard Standards, to me, there's a feeling of strategy, so the feeling of prevailing is stronger.

This feeling is also what burns me out on JUMP and a lot of JUMP Team levels since at the end of the day a lot of OG!JUMP and 1/2 is basically Standard levels made with the ethos of Kaizo, and what I'm looking for is something closer to VIP or ASPE. Kaizo is basically distilled Very Hard, and by cutting out most of the flavor of the level in favor of full on challenge all the time, it kind of feels rote to me.

I've basically accepted that Anikiti/Haimari/Sig/VIP style Very Hard will never be in vogue again, and I've tried to make JP style levels myself as a sort of "putting matters into my own hands" type thing but mental baggage has made me give up on it.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by idol »

honestly, while kaizo is big, smwc still gets more standard hacks submitted on average. in the past few months alone i could recommend plumber for all seasons, daizos alpha sphere is cool (heard ppl like super mario challenges by him too), another special world 2 / gaiden, russianman's marisa and reimu switch hunt, r-ack, golden yoshi's hack series, isikoro mario world (might be divisive), so on and so on. all of these are interesting and cool standard hacks from the past few months i don't think raocow's played, and none of them were made for other ppl / kaizo twitch streamers.

the hacks are out there still, much as they always have been.

this is an aside from magl4, but i wanted to bring it up anyways since i don't quite agree that everyone makes kaizo hacks nowadays. we have a lot more kaizo hacks, but i can also say smwc has grown a ton in the past few years, so it all averages out just the same as it did before.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Scarfley »

Hey, I would like to ask something.
After the submission periodt is over, the entries are probably all being collected by someone and send to the judges, right?
Is it maybe possible for the person who collects them to also upload a .zip-file (or something similar) containing all the entries like last MaGL?
(Especially if there turn out to be a lot of entries after all.)
Only if it is not too much work of course!!!
That would be very nice of them! :)
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Valentine »

most likely will happen
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

idol wrote: 2 years ago honestly, while kaizo is big, smwc still gets more standard hacks submitted on average. in the past few months alone i could recommend plumber for all seasons, daizos alpha sphere is cool (heard ppl like super mario challenges by him too), another special world 2 / gaiden, russianman's marisa and reimu switch hunt, r-ack, golden yoshi's hack series, isikoro mario world (might be divisive), so on and so on. all of these are interesting and cool standard hacks from the past few months i don't think raocow's played, and none of them were made for other ppl / kaizo twitch streamers.

the hacks are out there still, much as they always have been.

this is an aside from magl4, but i wanted to bring it up anyways since i don't quite agree that everyone makes kaizo hacks nowadays. we have a lot more kaizo hacks, but i can also say smwc has grown a ton in the past few years, so it all averages out just the same as it did before.
I've actually downloaded Gaiden, MariRei, Isikoro, R-ACK, AnoSpe2, as well as some Standard Hard and V Hard that seemed good or I wanted to replay for the sake of savestateless play, and a healthy number of Kaizo Lights to practice. However, I'm too busy with commercial games to grind in V Hard romhacks right now, currently doing Farland Story (PC98)/Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)/Grandia (Saturn)/Summon Night 2 (PlayStation).

Still messed about with Isikoro, Hyper 6 and ASPE on completed save files (Summit of the Gods and That Which Can Eternal Die are pretty funny if you're not playing to win) and tried to play through Another Special 1 (which is surprisingly tough for a Nintendo-style hack) and Luigi's Adventure, non-OSE (it gave me brain injuries, please stick to OSE).

As for standard being the more submitted, I'm not gonna refute that, you being the owner of the site and all, though Kaizo: Light by itself is bigger than most difficulties by themselves except for Standard: Normal, of which the two are pretty close by around 100 entries I'd say? It's much easier (relatively, it's not exactly brain dead, far from it) to make a 10 stage Kaizo hack with sort of run of the mill tech for a two-three hour stream than make something like Morsel and the like.

Also, it's much less time consuming than an eight world all romps type hack, so I kind of expect Kaizo: Light to eventually become the difficulty with the most entries due to its sheer accessibility of creation, along with the streamer angle. Not exactly take over the site entirely to the point that no one makes Standards anymore, though. I'm not exactly pissed off at that fact, just a bit depressed hacks in the same vein as Mario X World or TSC's stages in VIP aren't too much of a thing these days, likely due to their focus on longer experiences and many worlds. I also wonder how many people still expect impressive ASM out of them, which honestly is asking for too much.

I honestly have better things to do than complain about Kaizo, and I'd be down to make something similar to Morsel's Kaizos someday and upload it onto RH.net, especially since I can ASM and all. My comment about interesting Standard is also colored by me being more of a Very Hard player, so sorry for that.
Scarfley wrote: 2 years ago Hey, I would like to ask something.
After the submission periodt is over, the entries are probably all being collected by someone and send to the judges, right?
Is it maybe possible for the person who collects them to also upload a .zip-file (or something similar) containing all the entries like last MaGL?
(Especially if there turn out to be a lot of entries after all.)
Only if it is not too much work of course!!!
That would be very nice of them! :)
I actually did one for MaGL1-3 for someone who turned out to be aterraformer, if you want it, then yeet. Kudos to Zandro for archiving all of 'em. I didn't include a certain person's due to them being a complete piece of shit none of us want to associate with though.
Valentine wrote: 2 years ago most likely will happen
If no one does one for MaGL4, I could whip one up in an hour or so and put it on my site.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Scarfley »

Valentine wrote: 2 years ago most likely will happen
That would be fantastic!
KobaBeach wrote: 2 years ago I actually did one for MaGL1-3 for someone who turned out to be aterraformer, if you want it, then yeet. Kudos to Zandro for archiving all of 'em. I didn't include a certain person's due to them being a complete piece of shit none of us want to associate with though.
I actually came across the thread in question a short while ago myself.
Thank you for having gone through the trouble of compiling all of the MaGLs so far in one .zip-file. (And thanks to Zandro for archiving the individual entries as well of course!)
Even if the person you originally did this for unfortunately turned out to be someone who has very harmful beliefs, I'm sure that there are a lot of other people who are very thankful to you for finally having a more accessible way to play those contests (myself included).

(Also, just letting you know, Enjl's MaGL3 entry in the .zip-file does not seem to work properly. I also visited Zandro's archive and Enjl's entry stored there is also not working. The link Enjl provided in the MaGL3 submission thread does still work though, and it leads to a working version, so I downloaded that one separately. Not a huge deal or anything but I figured I may as well inform you about this.)
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Scarfley wrote: 2 years ago (Also, just letting you know, Enjl's MaGL3 entry in the .zip-file does not seem to work properly. I also visited Zandro's archive and Enjl's entry stored there is also not working. The link Enjl provided in the MaGL3 submission thread does still work though, and it leads to a working version, so I downloaded that one separately. Not a huge deal or anything but I figured I may as well inform you about this.)
oh ship

Thanks 4 informing me, I'll try to update it later when I'm not as tired from sleeping all day. I'll keep the same URL, so as to simplify things though.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Valentine »

Since i'd really like to avoid having to make people crunch to get their levels done, and because the 18th has become really inconvenient for me personally, i'll be extending the deadline until 21st of October, 9:00 PM CEST, as it is the next earliest most convenient time for me to end the contest.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Lespna1 »

Valentine wrote: 2 years ago Since i'd really like to avoid having to make people crunch to get their levels done, and because the 18th has become really inconvenient for me personally, i'll be extending the deadline until 21st of October, 9:00 PM CEST, as it is the next earliest most convenient time for me to end the contest.
So is that 9:00 P.M. in Europe? What time is it in the Central Time Zone in the United States?
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