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MaGL4 - Rules & Questions (SUBMISSIONS OVER)

would you like to participate in some fun contests? would you like to create some fun contests? well ^_^
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idol
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by idol »

that is a very weird way to describe levels i made in 2018-2019, especially since none of them were remotely puzzle based. but okay
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by ano0maly »

And who's the remaining applicant?
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

idol wrote: 1 month ago that is a very weird way to describe levels i made in 2018-2019, especially since none of them were remotely puzzle based. but okay
sorry
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Windslash »

idol wrote: 1 month ago whos king ruby and windslash. are they cool. this is my question
If you were to imagine some sick shades on a sandshrew, that's how cool I am. (Saturn)

No but seriously, hello! I've been a lurker on the forums for the most part for these last few years, and mostly active in the patapon discord server. I've contributed to some small things on the backend and been in several of the contests so far. I am always fascinated by level design and the varied approaches people take to levels; and I really want to support and encourage everyone who is willing to put in the effort. I enjoy seeing people improve and get better, and my ambition is to spark that drive in my judging.

I trust I will do the position well, and look forward to all the entrants, regardless of skill level. We can all strive to improve!
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by idol »

ano0maly wrote: 1 month ago And who's the remaining applicant?
i'm kinda curious too. i'm agreeing with the guesses of it being nimono - excel judging was something nimono did in vldc9 as well lol. but im also curious if we're all just fuckin wrong

anyways, contest rules look good. is raocow lping this per entry revealing the results like last time?
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Valentine »

I haven't really discussed any details with raocow yet but most likely yes
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by xfix »

May as well introduce myself, considering Lord Ruby and Windslash already did this.

Hello. I'm a long-time raocow watcher, and I've hacked SMW for like 13 years. I contributed levels to YUMP and JUMP 1/2, as well as submitted entries to various Super Mario World level design contests on SMW Central, best placement being 2nd place in 24hosmw #12.

When evaluating stages, I will be looking for gameplay flaws and other small things that can change the experience badly. I would like my reviews to be tips on how to make your next levels even better. As much as possible I encourage you to participate, even if you are not the best level designer in SMW. Especially if you're not. It's hard to get better at creating stages without feedback from other people, and there are as many as four judges in this contest.

As for my level style preferences, I don't care too much - just try to make your level fun.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by raocow »

wait this is happening already

I'mma make a short announcement video in the coming days then :O
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Nimono »

idol wrote: 1 month ago
ano0maly wrote: 1 month ago And who's the remaining applicant?
i'm kinda curious too. i'm agreeing with the guesses of it being nimono - excel judging was something nimono did in vldc9 as well lol. but im also curious if we're all just fuckin wrong

anyways, contest rules look good. is raocow lping this per entry revealing the results like last time?
yeah it was me. i did the excel thing then and now because i had seen others do it a lot too so i became under the impression that had become the standard! as I was writing out my first review I was like "ugh this doesn't look right, I should put it in a normal text file", but then told myself that everyone else entering would probably use excel and thus mine would look very strange! The opposite occurred lol so i guess apparently the standard is just a plain notepad file!! aside from THAT little fact, I'm honestly baffled you guys pegged venus as me, cuz I've never felt like I had any kind of notable posting style, outside of the way I'm speaking here haha you have to admit that's vastly different from what I wrote in the reviews

also I AM SO SORRY about the patronizing speech!! i went overboard with trying to be helpful and informative. my reviews from ages past used to be full of disdain toward errors and things i disliked, quite insulting and rude looking back on it, so over time i tried to correct into being informative- i'm the kind of person that likes to be told what I did wrong, BUT also be given suggestions on how it could be corrected, because that gives me an avenue of avoidance, if that makes any sense, so that's what I put into my reviews. but i overdid it, being all "remember, don't do this/make sure to do that!!" whoops
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Enjl »

i think we should introduce google slides as a new de facto standard of review display
perks:
- easy to share
- ctrl + f for level names
- one page per review
- you can do layouting
- rad backgrounds???

Here's an example
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Windslash »

Enjl wrote: 1 month ago i think we should introduce google slides as a new de facto standard of review display
I second this request only if we get to add 90's animations (like star wipes) between slides and can blare low quality midis on each slide that expresses the mood
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Nimono »

I have a question regarding the rules- how far are we allowed to go with custom content? Is it only custom graphics and music, but vanilla gameplay, or are we allowed to make custom sprites and code?
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Going with a mellower stage this time, just have the final parts to complete ^^

Since there isn't really a thread for it here, I've also set up magl4 showcase (xfix and Val can't see it dw) and discussion channels on my romhack shack server for anyone interested, feel free to shoot me a pm if you want in (^o^)v

Val was gonna put it in the OP but she's currently busy trying to manage the contest so...
Nimono wrote: 1 month ago I have a question regarding the rules- how far are we allowed to go with custom content? Is it only custom graphics and music, but vanilla gameplay, or are we allowed to make custom sprites and code?
Anything goes.

There's a reason I was trying to make something with outright mode 7 gameplay before.
Now I'm making something more traditional if with a bit of SMWC ASM to try and treat this in a more zen way, like MaGL is supposed to be like.

You just have to remember that the big rubric here is fun.
All the Brutal Mario shit or VLDC shit in the world won't save you if your level isn't fun. But even then, you should make something that you want to play.
Entering to compete is kind of the wrong way to interpret MaGL, it's more like a level design jam with honorary scores and rankings.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by idol »

i think in terms of judging formats, i always sway towards the simpicity of txt files (esp if theres a lot of entries), but slides looks fine. admittedly i havent checked out how well slides works on mobile though.

winner of magl4 gets to go with raocow to hunt wolves in a forest with your bare hands
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by BeckySFairley »

I saw the video today - there is no theme/prompts with this one unlike MAGLX3 so I guess we have to just think up an idea from my head at the weekend I will just open up Luna magic and see where my brain takes me. I think the last time I ever attempted something like this was with Knytt stories nearly a decade ago.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

instead of working on my level i'm porting sampled arc the lad music to smw :)
i will not use it on my level so it's okay for me to talk about it

i should be taking a sabbatical from the internet too oops

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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Lord Ruby wrote: 1 month ago
KobaBeach wrote: 1 month ago

And to be fair, xfix told me he had to savescum in Pokey as well.

I also had to use tools for that level. Which, by the way, seems like a near-guaranteed angrycow? Especially that final obstacle, considering what he thinks of entering doors in SMW.

sorry just saw this, been a bit out of the site, and might still be for a bit over brain stuff/terminally online stuff.

the big thing about that stage is that

heraga, who made like three of the judge application levels, was originally gonna submit it to qldc but it kept going awry and not being very fun to play so he just removed the powerups and midpoint, might have also sped up the pokeys to abominable degrees to make it more punishing and included it as an example of a rude level that judges may encounter.

heraga also did athletic and ninji if you want to see an example of his work on a good day, extremely talented motherfucker, very much a pupil of late 00s, early 10s level design schools, especially platforming focused japanese works (anikiti, sig) and the jump circle (or jumpers if you will). i kind of look up (should that be down rather? he's a few years younger than me) to him for feedback on my stages, since a lot of the smw hackers i have easy access to friend-wise are mostly music and asm folk.

speaking of rude levels, i hope maks and tomato jonson enter. that'd be funny
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Enjl »

BeckySFairley wrote: 1 month ago I saw the video today - there is no theme/prompts with this one unlike MAGLX3 so I guess we have to just think up an idea from my head at the weekend I will just open up Luna magic and see where my brain takes me. I think the last time I ever attempted something like this was with Knytt stories nearly a decade ago.
I will say - Val's level name generator often helps me get the thinking gears turning. It might not always spit out usable names, but clicking through sets of 15 names might help speed the process along.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by idol »

id also like to submit some level names for people to get an idea of what to make:

horse clergy
horse sanctuary
house of horses
horse plain's 4
horse panic attack in the middle of the night when theyre coming to kill you
night of semiramis 2
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

So Horse, It's Image
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Catabo »

BeckySFairley wrote: 1 month ago I saw the video today - there is no theme/prompts with this one unlike MAGLX3 so I guess we have to just think up an idea from my head at the weekend I will just open up Luna magic and see where my brain takes me.
You can always make a quasi-box by generating some random.org numbers from like 0—240 and converting to hexadecimal to pick from the list of sprites. Depending on which one you get, it follows that you'll design the level around it.



horse funeral
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Catabo wrote: 1 month ago
BeckySFairley wrote: 1 month ago I saw the video today - there is no theme/prompts with this one unlike MAGLX3 so I guess we have to just think up an idea from my head at the weekend I will just open up Luna magic and see where my brain takes me.
You can always make a quasi-box by generating some random.org numbers from like 0—240 and converting to hexadecimal to pick from the list of sprites. Depending on which one you get, it follows that you'll design the level around it.
Enjl wrote: 1 month ago I will say - Val's level name generator often helps me get the thinking gears turning. It might not always spit out usable names, but clicking through sets of 15 names might help speed the process along.
Big shout outs to the random page links on the upper left corner of the SMWC sections that I accidentally willed into existence some years ago, they're very handy for those who just want a new hack or asset drawn from a big ol bucket. Made out of hell. And Kaizo, lots of kaizo (light).

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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

i'd say man im not proud of my level but im in the phase of learning how to level design so
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by Scarfley »

KobaBeach wrote: 3 weeks ago i'd say man im not proud of my level but im in the phase of learning how to level design so
Don't worry about it too much. Like xfix said, putting your work out there for people to play for themselves and seeing how they feel about it is probably one of the best ways to improve in terms of level design and such especially since you get valuable feedback from the judges and since this is a MaGL the entries are (probably?) being lped by raocow, meaning you may get to experience a wide arrange of opinions from all sorts of people.

I wouldn't know though because I have never entered a contest before.

:mgmn:

Just participating is already a reward in and of itself since in the end this is all about having fun.

Furthermore, you can still update your entry if you are not happy with how it turned out.
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Re: MaGL4 - Rules & Questions

Post by KobaBeach »

Scarfley wrote: 3 weeks ago Don't worry about it too much. Like xfix said, putting your work out there for people to play for themselves and seeing how they feel about it is probably one of the best ways to improve in terms of level design and such especially since you get valuable feedback from the judges and since this is a MaGL the entries are (probably?) being lped by raocow, meaning you may get to experience a wide arrange of opinions from all sorts of people.

I wouldn't know though because I have never entered a contest before.

:mgmn:

Just participating is already a reward in and of itself since in the end this is all about having fun.

Furthermore, you can still update your entry if you are not happy with how it turned out.
I mean yeah, I'm mostly just worried about the deadline. Two weeks and some change away. I can make a stage in like a few hours or so, but I usually run out of steam quickly, as I do it in a daze.

My stage is a bit rude because I was shooting for hard/very hard.

I'm also not exactly competing to win, I find that meaningless as like.

Putting a quantifier of quality on a work of art, even something as minor as a Mario fan level is pointless and subjective, and even if it wasn't, there's always a specific kind of level ethos that always wins these contests due to unconscious bias, of course, not saying it's undeserved. I started this just to get the mood of making SMW levels back into talkhaus. I'd like to see some new Standard and Kaizo level makers come out of this and a secret project I have in mind, keeping quiet on what it is to not burn people out.

I'd also like to make SMW MaGLs more of a common thing, hopefully with X+Boss and W "baton touching" like every few months? Speaking of putting work out there, I've let a few of my friends play my hack and they felt it was alright outside of some slowdown, but they haven't played my castle stage yet. I've also been watching SMW hack LPs for advice on what works and what doesn't, mostly going off of my own feelings.

For example, I did not "visually enjoy" a lot of what raocow went through in his SMWCP LP, and it kind of helped inform me of the dos and don'ts of making bosses, though making a proper boss requires a bit of sprite making experience and general game design knowledge and gamefeel brainjuice, a lot of the bad ones were either worse than carol's worst (Anya), broke several conventions of boss design (Toadsworth) or were just flat out noob boss tier (Atma's bosses).

It also explained to me what exactly is Item Babysitting and why it and the "intertwined entrails level design" of classic western hacks like SMWCP and A2MT just isn't as fun as a standard level or even a more non-linear level that's structured like Maze Castle from VIP4 and 5.

SUPER is also teaching me how to make a joke level. I appreciated the Yellow Switch's multi tiered ruse; the Hammer Bro stage's variations on the Hammer Bro sprite (something easy to arrange with conditionals and Extra Bytes), custom set up for each set up, Sunset Lake being a chiller, more normal stage with a few bits of bullying spiced in, proving that you can make a more lowkey stage in an off day if you don't have a big idea to support it.

Waste Processing Plant being a complete mess of constant suffering, taking the bullets from the previous stage and exploring them, again making variants, and a questionable (let's put it that way) spin on ice block walls, with a ruse on the old reset mechanism (that raocow didn't showcase in the video). Actually, I've only realized this while reading the thread but my original MaGL4 stage was based on the Blue Switch from SUPER, with the same lock blocks and block avoidance theme. I thought it was based on Latchkey Kid from VIP6 but I was mistaken, the second part was an On-Off based sidescroller.

Need to rewatch the VIP3 LP to see what level ethos and ways of thinking I can borrow. And when I try to design a kaizo (I'd like to give it a shot, but it'd be less common than designing Standard Hard) I'm definitely gonna try to borrow ways of thinking from level designers like Morsel. Also gonna watch other LPers who LPed other hacks, though I'll probably mute them (if monkeycheese era raocow was annoying...), if I find any stream archives, that too.

I am absolutely keeping in mind that the player's reaction may not necessarily be my own, like raocow savescummed through Luigi's Adventure (the OG version) while listening to random music on foobar2000 and didn't care about anything, meanwhile I spent the better half of a morning on like most of World 3 dying over and over again without tools, just infinite lives, to barely RTA viable stages that ended up getting changed in the OSE version.

:honk:
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