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MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

would you like to participate in some fun contests? would you like to create some fun contests? well ^_^
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MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

romhack shack (talkhaus SMW) discord here: [PM pls]
feel free to join if you're not a fuck

SMW hacking is mostly dead on talkhaus (much like the rest of the site oho), but I feel like a nice way we can stirr up some interest on talkhaus and SMW again could be a contest. I suggested it in the hat contest topic
KobaBeach wrote: 2 months ago we should have a magl4 (smw) sometime, i'm too lazy to compete but i am willing to judge
but I wasn't fully serious

Then PSI Ninja replied with
PSI Ninja wrote: 2 months ago I would love to see a MaGL4 happen, because I'm dying to participate in a Talkhaus level design contest. I never had the opportunity because I started posting here in December 2019, so I missed the MaGLX3 signups earlier that year. Honestly, I wish level design contests were a bit more frequent on the Talkhaus, with at least one a year. So that way, interested parties don't have to wait every 4+ years like the Olympics to get involved. I remember reading an old post somewhere that said we should alternate every year with a SMW and SMBX contest. Maybe we should aim for something like that going forward. Problem is, of course, finding enough people willing to handle events of this magnitude on a recurring basis. Especially since the Talkhaus isn't as active as it used to be.
And considering MaGLX3 is pretty much over and done and the LP is close to the end, I'd like to propose a MaGL4. I'm not sure about entry amount, possibly very low considering talkhaus is super dead? I'm willing to judge regardless of amount, but I'm not sure who else can judge. I'd like it to be SMW hackers that also go on talkhaus from time to time than just SMWCers. As for gimmicks, I'm also not sure. I'd like to go for an everything goes approach like MaGL1&3 because imo MaGL2 and non-Vanilla, non-Chocolate SMWC contests' gimmicks can be a bit hindering to new designers and I assume most people have the most experience with vanilla hacking, the only chocolate they know being insertion of extra assets.

But yeah if there's any interest feel free to give a shout out. I'm gonna let rao and Rena know about this so they can signal boost it. If it does get off the ground someone can advertise it on SMWC, I'm not persona non grata there, but my account was disabled for the sake of my mental health at this point, according to bebn.

I'm expecting bellyaching about how the best winner is going to be the one with the most ASM, but if you're competing to win first place and not to have fun, you played yourself
Last edited by KobaBeach 1 month ago, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Daizo »

Considering there isn't a VLDC or a CLDC this year, yes I'm up for a MAGL4. Never entered the other three, so this could be a nice thing to work towards for this year.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by raekuul »

Sure, why not? I can't actually do worse than Well That Happened
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by SAJewers »

another magl contest should definitely happen before before another maglx contest
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Valentine »

I'd be willing to help organize/judge if necessary
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by HatKid »

I'd be interested in making a level and not going tryhard unlike what I did with my VLDC12 level lmao
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

I'm surprised this got more than one post!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Woo!!!!!!!
Sancles wrote: 2 months ago I'd be willing to help organize/judge if necessary
thank u i appreciate it!
HatKid wrote: 2 months ago I'd be interested in making a level and not going tryhard unlike what I did with my VLDC12 level lmao
raekuul wrote: 2 months ago Sure, why not? I can't actually do worse than Well That Happened
go ludus or go home
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by FusionWarrior »

I have an SNES controller and opinions, I can judge if you want. Just like... Have someone dm me on discord our something if you choose me.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Zygl »

I'd selfishly want it not to start while there's another contest already going on (i.e. the SMBX chocolate contest), but I'm never not up for a MaGL <.<
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Valentine »

Zygl wrote: 2 months ago I'd selfishly want it not to start while there's another contest already going on (i.e. the SMBX chocolate contest), but I'm never not up for a MaGL <.<
Ideally it wouldn't be starting until late august or september, as to not overlap with either the currently ongoing SMBX contest or the QLDC starting soon on SMWC imo
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Sancles wrote: 2 months ago
Zygl wrote: 2 months ago I'd selfishly want it not to start while there's another contest already going on (i.e. the SMBX chocolate contest), but I'm never not up for a MaGL <.<
Ideally it wouldn't be starting until late august or september, as to not overlap with either the currently ongoing SMBX contest or the QLDC starting soon on SMWC imo
Honestly yeah. It's best to wait for a lull period so other folk have time to do their own contests. Don't feel bad about being selfish Zygl
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by LunarRainbowShyGuy »

I had a good time making a SMW level for MaGL3, so I'm certainly interested in participating in this.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by PapyrusSemi »

Would be an excellent excuse for me to learn Lunar Magic after I chickened out of VLDC.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Catabo »

In the midst of one of my perennial attempts at figuring out SMW, I'm interested!

Re: gimmicks, how about just making them optional? "You can put x in your level if you want" could help jog people's imaginations without restricting them like "you have to put x in your level" would. Would people just view them as required anyway?
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Catabo wrote: 2 months ago In the midst of one of my perennial attempts at figuring out SMW, I'm interested!

Re: gimmicks, how about just making them optional? "You can put x in your level if you want" could help jog people's imaginations without restricting them like "you have to put x in your level" would. Would people just view them as required anyway?
It's likely. I feel like if you make a system optional you kind of have to give bonus points for including it. Once I get a decent rogues gallery of judges I'll try to discuss a proper scoring system. I've pondered about it on YK's server, but it's just idle thoughts. I want a scoring system where both choco and vanilla can succeed as long as the level is good.
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Anyway good luck at figuring out SMW, I'm making a Brutal Mario inspired ASM filled mess and a VIP/lolyoshi esque shitpile because 95% of the games coming out these days in SMWC are all Kaizo: Light and I don't like playing kaizo, so I'll just make my own entertainment.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Enjl »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 months ago
I'll keep you posted on how the smbx choccy con rubric turns out to behave. We're trialling it for the first time there and I have high hopes for it. For reference that's pacing 30, fun 25, presentation 20, concept 15, functionality 10, but it could be adjusted to remove functionality by bumping up fun and concept to 30 and 20 for instance. The judge auditions showed promising first results.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by PSI Ninja »

I'm so happy that there are this many replies already. Looks like there's an appetite for a new SMW hacking contest on the Talkhaus after all. But even if this contest gets only 10 or fewer entries, then that's okay. At least it's something.
KobaBeach wrote: 2 months ago And considering MaGLX3 is pretty much over and done and the LP is close to the end, I'd like to propose a MaGL4. I'm not sure about entry amount, possibly very low considering talkhaus is super dead? I'm willing to judge regardless of amount, but I'm not sure who else can judge. I'd like it to be SMW hackers that also go on talkhaus from time to time than just SMWCers. As for gimmicks, I'm also not sure. I'd like to go for an everything goes approach like MaGL1&3 because imo MaGL2 and non-Vanilla, non-Chocolate SMWC contests' gimmicks can be a bit hindering to new designers and I assume most people have the most experience with vanilla hacking, the only chocolate they know being insertion of extra assets.
In my opinion, the contest should be kept as open as possible. Let people make what they're comfortable with, as long as it doesn't contain anything offensive. So yeah, it would be more in line with MaGL1 and MaGL3. I don't remember how well vanilla levels performed against chocolate levels in these contests, though. The data exists, but I can't be bothered to rewatch the videos or dig through the old threads right now.

To handle the vanilla/chocolate disparity, perhaps we can score levels similar to what was done with SMWC's OLDC that took place earlier this year. The rubric was 40 points for design, and 20 points for creativity. Aesthetics weren't explicitly scored, but it was suggested that the design score would be negatively impacted if the level lacked polish (the results aren't out yet, so can't confirm). So based on this rubric, even if a level has fancy custom ASM, it won't help much if it's not fun or executed well. Just putting that out there, though this rubric might not be appropriate or sufficient for this contest.
Catabo wrote: 2 months ago Re: gimmicks, how about just making them optional? "You can put x in your level if you want" could help jog people's imaginations without restricting them like "you have to put x in your level" would. Would people just view them as required anyway?
Heh, that reminds me of way back when I was applying to college. Some programs I was interested in said that the SAT subject tests were optional, and not required for admission. But I took them anyway because I knew that everyone else who was serious about applying was going to take them too. Just my personal thoughts, but I'm thinking no gimmicks for this contest to keep things simple.
Sancles wrote: 2 months ago Ideally it wouldn't be starting until late august or september, as to not overlap with either the currently ongoing SMBX contest or the QLDC starting soon on SMWC imo
How about Friday, August 27th? That's the fifth anniversary of the start of MaGL3, believe it or not. It should give enough time for people to wind down if they're participating in those other contests, and it's not too far in the future to risk people forgetting or losing interest. I'm suggesting an actual date, because I feel like if we don't aim for something concrete, then this contest is not gonna happen.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Mandew »

honestly if this contest doesn't end up being super huge it's all the better I feel like, makes the logistics a lot easier to manage and the ease of having things under wrap in a timely manner counts for a lot when it comes to these sorts of events happening habitually.

I'd be very interested in partaking as a contestant
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by CrappyBlueLuigi »

i really enjoyed throwing my hat into the ring last magl and i would like to do so again
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by EternalFireseal »

I'd be interested, but I'd want to know more about the rules/judging before fully committing.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Chongas »

I'm interested, but I've never made a SMW level before. So, idk how much of a challenge it would be to learn how to make one :ehh:

I suppose I'll have to do some research before committing to a decision. And, yea, if I feel confident about it I might give it a shot.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Chongas wrote: 2 months ago I'm interested, but I've never made a SMW level before. So, idk how much of a challenge it would be to learn how to make one :ehh:

I suppose I'll have to do some research before committing to a decision. And, yea, if I feel confident about it I might give it a shot.
Here is a perfect thread for that. I'll actually have a buffer period before the official start so people can practice a bit with SMW hacking; level editing and asset insertion mostly. Lunar Magic's help file is also super very well documented on what it can do.

If you need inspiration for level design once you got accustomed to the tips and tricks of APPALLED, feel free to check out hacks raocow's played or just random hacks for good ideas. I'd advise to keep to standard difficulties, since I personally don't have the experience to rate good kaizo levels outside of a few cleared stages in Quickie World.

The official Mario series and its fangames, as well as platformers that are close to Mario's gameplay like the Donkey Kong Country series are also super good, my level design is heavily influenced by DKC2&3 and the best parts of VIP, even if mine is far from being as good (depending on what your opinion of DKC3 is though!).

Here's some nice videos that touch on Galaxy 2 onwards and SMW's level design ethos respectively, which should help you get to grips with "thinking Mario":


Lastly here's a Mario Maker 2 tips video for putting the Galaxy 2+ or Donkey Kong Country 4-step/kishoutenketsu ethos into practice, which can help you understand putting other level design ethos into practice.

Lastly, just make a level you can "feel yourself" in, be it bad or good. Make a level you want to play, take inspirations from what you enjoy from various platformers, ASM you think is neat that's available on SMWC (or if you can, code it yourself, though I'm pretty sure most people on here can't, which is ok), ways to play around with said mechanics or just vanilla mechanics even.

Gamedev is an artform, and just like drawing, it's all about putting ourselves in it.

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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Chongas »

Yo, cool! Thanks a lot for all those resources and advice, I really appreciate! I didn't know about these tutorials, they definitely got me excited to try and learn something new. Awesome, let's do it! :mgmnds:
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Chongas wrote: 2 months ago Yo, cool! Thanks a lot for all those resources and advice, I really appreciate! I didn't know about these tutorials, they definitely got me excited to try and learn something new. Awesome, let's do it! :mgmnds:
I'm glad. Take your time and experiment! This goes for everyone. Maybe if this goes well we can revive the spark to hack on talkhaus~ Do feel free to mingle amongst "Centralites" on SMWC though, friendly and inclusive site with friendly people and staff, lots of kids though haha.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Taigiry »

I haven't touched Lunar Magic in probably 10 years, so sign me up, sounds like fun.
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