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MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

would you like to participate in some fun contests? would you like to create some fun contests? well ^_^
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by idol »

i would be fine with smwc promoting this, i entered magl3 and i thought it was fun. i might enter again for the shit and giggle.

could i ask you (lion) to stop saying things like i'm mad at you across talkhaus though? it's making me feel really weird. i'm not mad at anyone. i've just seen you say it a lot and it feels weird to air dirty laundry like that, esp if it's not true.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

idol wrote: 2 months ago could i ask you (lion) to stop saying things like i'm mad at you across talkhaus though? it's making me feel really weird. i'm not mad at anyone. i've just seen you say it a lot and it feels weird to air dirty laundry like that, esp if it's not true.
I'm sorry, I just thought you were still upset at that twitter thread I did in March. I tried apologizing to you through Discord recently and you didn't reply, so I wasn't sure if it was you having trouble replying as usual or if you just were still upset but I'll edit it out then! I thought you wouldn't even enter because of me. Uber sorry for what I did before and also just airing this out with no tact, irresponsibly. I'll extend an olive branch if you feel safe with it. I don't want to make anyone upset anymore.

I'm very much looking forward to your stage.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Something I've been wondering, does it seem like a good idea for people if like, a few weeks to a month after the results, we try to make a basic, smaller scale collab in preparation for A3MT? If xfix ends up getting it off the ground later on, that is? SMWCers are welcome of course, but I'd like for new talkhaus-sphere (SMWC, talkhaus, discordhaus, spotzone, codehaus, SMBX) designers to try and use it to practice making levels in SMW for those who aren't as interested in "competing" in a contest and have their level rated. There would still be feedback in terms of testers and whatnot though.

This is much beyond from now, but I'm considering opening levels up to 024, which should give us 36 main stages + a possible Bowser collab stage that can be placed on like 101 or something. Unlike ASMT and A2MT which were focused on impressing raocow or everyone from the start, respectively, with raocow even pressuring people to perform as best as possible in ASMT's case, I want this contest and an eventual collab to be a playground for people to practice new ideas in an SNES context. If it's SMBX stuff that can be transferred into SMW, that's fine too.

I'd also be available to help people learn ASM if they're so inclined, even small stuff, and Wakana's music tutorial is pretty good for composers, though I'd suggest to transcribe it into a MIDI first before making the conversion, possibly by hand? Heard auto converters are jank. Graphics are a case of putting pixel art and general art experience into practice, and working with the limitations of the SNES.

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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by SAJewers »

Something that I had actually been thinking about, regarding that, is possibly packaging up all the entries into a single hack so that final thing that raocow lps ends up being a sort of cross between collab and contest.

the organizers could come up with a "baserom" of sorts filled with random assets that are the only things contestants can make (that can be the gimmick for the contest), maybe an excuse plot can be written around the entries, and judge/organizer levels that can be dispersed through (like with magl 3), then everything packed neatly into one like, sorta like the old vldcs.

this is probably far too much work, but since we're throwing ideas and stuff around
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

SAJewers wrote: 2 months ago Something that I had actually been thinking about, regarding that, is possibly packaging up all the entries into a single hack so that final thing that raocow lps ends up being a sort of cross between collab and contest.

the organizers could come up with a "baserom" of sorts filled with random assets that are the only things contestants can make (that can be the gimmick for the contest), maybe an excuse plot can be written around the entries, and judge/organizer levels that can be dispersed through (like with magl 3), then everything packed neatly into one like, sorta like the old vldcs.

this is probably far too much work, but since we're throwing ideas and stuff around
I've spoken with Heraga (formerly Ningamer/Nin, he is helping with setting it up, but he intends to enter, so he won't be judging or anything) and Sancles (she intends to judge) and we are not doing VLDC type stuff. VLDC had problems with people literally entering just to be a part of the collab, also, since we intend for it to be more of an anything goes, there is the chance that ASM can draw complications. As Heraga said:
Heraga wrote:someone can use the dkc status bar and you play as yoshi or whatever, and then someone else is just all defaults
itd be more effort than its worth imo
We also do not want any gimmicks, especially baseroms, due to the amount of testing required to set them up, and how less accessible they are for the common user.
Sancles wrote:bldc is an inherent accessibility barrier and while both a cldc and vldc were missing from smwc this year i think cldc is inherently more accessbile
because in cldc you can just open lunar magic and make some shit and send it
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Judge application stages will be in a compilation rom, and so will the postgame judge levels (Heraga didn't like 3's format of slotting judge levels all over the LP), but to put it bluntly, we have no intention to compile anything or use gimmicks.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Rednaxela »

No promises but if I have time when it's running I'd certainly be up for trying to make something interesting as a first attempt using Lunar Magic for a MaGL4... (also, it would be a good excuse to poke at SNES ASM for the first time as someone very comfy with ASM in a variety of other contexts >.>)
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by SAJewers »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 months ago
SAJewers wrote: 2 months ago Something that I had actually been thinking about, regarding that, is possibly packaging up all the entries into a single hack so that final thing that raocow lps ends up being a sort of cross between collab and contest.

the organizers could come up with a "baserom" of sorts filled with random assets that are the only things contestants can make (that can be the gimmick for the contest), maybe an excuse plot can be written around the entries, and judge/organizer levels that can be dispersed through (like with magl 3), then everything packed neatly into one like, sorta like the old vldcs.

this is probably far too much work, but since we're throwing ideas and stuff around
I've spoken with Heraga (formerly Ningamer/Nin, he is helping with setting it up, but he intends to enter, so he won't be judging or anything) and Sancles (she intends to judge) and we are not doing VLDC type stuff. VLDC had problems with people literally entering just to be a part of the collab, also, since we intend for it to be more of an anything goes, there is the chance that ASM can draw complications. As Heraga said:
Heraga wrote:someone can use the dkc status bar and you play as yoshi or whatever, and then someone else is just all defaults
itd be more effort than its worth imo
We also do not want any gimmicks, especially baseroms, due to the amount of testing required to set them up, and how less accessible they are for the common user.
Sancles wrote:bldc is an inherent accessibility barrier and while both a cldc and vldc were missing from smwc this year i think cldc is inherently more accessbile
because in cldc you can just open lunar magic and make some shit and send it
baseroms require ungodly amounts of testing
Judge application stages will be in a compilation rom, and so will the postgame judge levels (Heraga didn't like 3's format of slotting judge levels all over the LP), but to put it bluntly, we have no intention to compile anything or use gimmicks.
That's mostly fair, though I would disagree with having a postgame; imo raocow's final video should be the 1st place entry.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Rednaxela wrote: 2 months ago (also, it would be a good excuse to poke at SNES ASM for the first time as someone very comfy with ASM in a variety of other contexts >.>)
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SAJewers wrote: 2 months ago That's mostly fair, though I would disagree with having a postgame; imo raocow's final video should be the 1st place entry.
Honestly I feel like judge levels should be considered separate from the contest, having an ego boost for the judges in the middle of results feels awkward to me and I was never a big fan of judge levels in the first place unless they're like a shitpost like Rameau's SMBX stages or just a bonus for exploration like MaGLX3's as a whole.

VLDC's escalation of making them progressively larger events or making them the endgame in Mag Mell MaGMML feels unfitting because you could might as well just make a collab at that point with all that effort, hell like I said, VLDC was starting to get entrants who only entered to be in the final rom like it was a participation award, which is concerning. @ idol n the crew, no offense to SMWC at all, it just felt like the same "losing focus, ballooning ambition" that also plagued (plagues) projects like SMWCP2 and Brutal Mario.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by SAJewers »

What about having judge levels at the start?
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

SAJewers wrote: 2 months ago What about having judge levels at the start?
I personally don't want to delay results. Not sure about Sancles. Judge levels are still unconfirmed, sorry for jumping the gun a bit/speaking too early.

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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by S.N.N. »

SAJewers wrote: 2 months ago What about having judge levels at the start?
Or honestly, not having them at all. I’ve seen it happen/coordinated it both ways:

-Levels in the middle of the results/LP (MaGL3): intended to not take away the spotlight from the upper entries as so many previous contests have done, but ultimately punctuates the results with unnecessary content from non-participants.
-Levels appended to the end of the contest: intended to act as a bit of a denouement from the actual results, but kind of became a way-too-big thing in recent years that overshadowed the winners (MaGLX2 and the recent VLDCs come to mind).

My opinion has kind of shifted as time has went on to leaning more towards “the end of the contest should be the first place entry”, but you could argue that in a collab, people may want something more after beating all of the levels. I don’t really think there’s a right answer on judge levels/a contest postgame, but those are my two cents I guess.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Daizo »

Honestly not even having a collab would make this more relaxed like the other three smw MAGLs. The big scale MAGLXes are built with an engine that is made to easily stitch levels together, whereas SMW is on the SNES and while you can stitch stuff together you seriously need to plan it from the start to have it happen, and honestly I'd rather MAGL4 be more like a cldc than to work with a baserom with unnecessary restrictions.

Biggest thing I'd expect is maybe "following a specific word" like in MAGLX3 and/or the "specific category rewards" thing from MAGL3.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Mandew »

I agree with Daizo that there should not be a compilation

however, having a baseROM that contestants can use as a convenience could be a good idea; if mostly just so all recommended patches are pre-applied (if any) and all recommend tools can be obtained hassle-free. Use of the baseROM would be entirely for the contestant's convenience and optional, though.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Mandew wrote: 2 months ago I agree with Daizo that there should not be a compilation

however, having a baseROM that contestants can use as a convenience could be a good idea; if mostly just so all recommended patches are pre-applied (if any) and all recommend tools can be obtained hassle-free. Use of the baseROM would be entirely for the contestant's convenience and optional, though.
Heraga wrote:i feel like a baserom would steer people in a specific direction when making their level if certain utilities were included, however packaging together a bunch of common tools would i think do wonders for people wanting to experiment
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Enjl »

S.N.N. wrote: 2 months ago My opinion has kind of shifted as time has went on to leaning more towards “the end of the contest should be the first place entry”, but you could argue that in a collab, people may want something more after beating all of the levels. I don’t really think there’s a right answer on judge levels/a contest postgame, but those are my two cents I guess.
I also have two cents!

I can only speak for the SMBX side, as that's where I'm most familiar with these things, but I generally agree that the first place level should be placed at the end. There are exceptions to that rule, I think: MAGLXs have the relay levels, which also feel like a conclusive bookend to the journey, and which relate to the competition well enough - and sometimes reference top-placing levels - that they make sense to have afterwards on occasion.

When it comes to SMBX, the way in which the engine is heavily tuned towards putting everything into a compilation easily sparked fairly plot-driven contest episodes early on (Tower of Biased series), with boss battles and even a final boss (which, with my current views, if I were to handle something like this, the episode's plot would reach its climax before the top 10, like a Pokemon game often does away with its villainous team around the 7th gym). I think this shows that, if desired, a compilation can aim to add an extra dimension to the contest experience, and occasionally even add an extra motivator for playing through the game to see how the plot may unfold. So while certainly a bit in-your-face and overblown in that series, I can see some upsides to the idea of having such a compilation be more than a simple archive, at the cost of higher effort. Should such a compilation be made, however, it would almost certainly have to be released after the results have been made public.

I understand the stance of judge levels and related bonus content being a waste of time when it comes to viewing contest episodes as an archive of the competition with easy navigation. I find the coffee break format of sprinkling them throughout, perhaps even in a non-fixed position, is a fairly inoffensive way of putting in content that gives more context to the competition as a whole. It avoids breaking the pacing, while offering a different form of content that can serve as a break after a long play session. Judge levels in particular I find interesting as a snapshot of displaying what the judge likes at the moment of making the reviews, though I would always make their inclusion something for the judges to decide, if the hosts are considering them. There is a chance the judge roster has some good judges that cannot handle the editing tools themselves well, after all, which may lead to a result that's dissatisfying for the judges, and difficult to understand for the players trying to make sense of the judges' biases through their levels. Ideally, I think, these levels should be memorable, full of character, but not hog the spotlight for a long time.

2 cents over!

With all that in mind, I think if there is no compilation, which makes sense for a smw contest not to have due to the technical workload, there should also not be judge levels.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Enjl wrote: 2 months ago With all that in mind, I think if there is no compilation, which makes sense for a smw contest not to have due to the technical workload, there should also not be judge levels.
Yeah I'm mostly winging this with the help of Hera and Sancl so, I basically spoke too soon.

I'd be glad if I didn't have to do a judge level, because I'm very slow when it comes to designing stages due to how ASM heavy I like making things, fine tuning mechanics so they feel just right for the player and myself is an ordeal, and I feel bad for bothering Von Fahrenheit every day for technical assistance so I usually have a buffer period where I try to do things myself, on top of the mood for ASMing tending to come and go. I haven't done anything since around the 12th of July? lmao. BTW, anyone, feel free to get me in contact with fellow ASMers, I'd love it, i've thought about adding Sonikku since we're mutuals on twitter and talk occasionally but i'm very awkward about that.

I'm also rather inexperienced in level design, partially because I haven't made many levels, and partially because I haven't played many SMW hacks to study from since the early to mid 10s, the latter I'm trying to get back to now, I mostly play RPGs haha. In terms of hacks, I'm playing some Very Hard hacks like SMW Gaiden, and yet another VIP1 replay because I'm gay for doing things in order (might postpone because I'm tired of always playing VIP1 then burning out), all savestateless but with infinite lives. That's basically my taste in hacks.

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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by zefennekinfan »

I am up to the task! I am open to either making a level or judging (tho maybe judging would be innapropriate for me since I am so new to the talkhous, but man did I disagree with a lot of what the judges had to say in maglx3! )
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Valentine »

not sure if it was mentioned on the thread already, but the picking the judges will be handled in a similar way to how it was handled in MaGLX3, and the judge applications would probably start somewhere in a month-ish, if we can get all the audition stages done by then
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by PSI Ninja »

Late to this, but
KobaBeach wrote: 2 months ago Something I've been wondering, does it seem like a good idea for people if like, a few weeks to a month after the results, we try to make a basic, smaller scale collab in preparation for A3MT? If xfix ends up getting it off the ground later on, that is?
Yes, I would be interested. Don't know why it should wait though - I think we could start working on this at any time. I haven't been designing new levels lately, but I've been learning ASM by studying some sprite disassemblies. This is mostly in preparation for QLDC, since I have a couple of ideas. But if I run out of time or chicken out, I think the level(s) I end up with could find a home in this smaller-scale collab. Not like I'll ever release my own hack, anyway (I wish I started SMW hacking 10 years earlier). And I'm not sure any super weird, experimental, janky levels would be appropriate for a possible A3MT, depending on what the standards will be (not that the collab you're proposing will end up with "questionable" levels). The submissions for ASMT and A2MT mostly seemed to be regular, orthodox levels (as opposed to YUMP-style jokey/memey levels), though there were some that would seem to fit the spirit of a QLDC by my interpretation: (1) Yoshizilla/trial of chaos - the randomized controls of the original version, (2) Heatstroke - the slowdown gimmick, and (3) The Meaning Of Sharp - the spikes everywhere design. Sorry, this became the romhack shack thread for a moment.
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Is this still a thing, or is it for the MaGL4 czars at this point (note: I intend to be a contestant and not apply to be a judge).
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

PSI Ninja wrote: 2 months ago Is this still a thing, or is it for the MaGL4 czars at this point (note: I intend to be a contestant and not apply to be a judge).
Anyone can join, though it's only me, Heraga and Sancles rn.
I don't think it has a lot of audience here on Talkhaus.
Feel free to prove me wrong though.
PSI Ninja wrote: 2 months ago Yes, I would be interested. Don't know why it should wait though - I think we could start working on this at any time.
It's mostly to avoid burnout.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Heraga »

Oh right, I have access to my account again after so long...! I should probably chime in here...

So essentially, as far as a potential MaGL4 Compilation / Collab in the vein of MaGLX3's I feel would ultimately limit what people can do in SMW. With the VLDC Compilation Hacks, the base levels themselves barring Map16 and Music were all vanilla. This makes compiling them all a rather "easy" task (I say that in quotes of course because you still need to contend with the lack of space for levels and Map16 itself, which is why things such as VLDCX never came to fruition) but it only really works well in a vanilla setting. The MaGLs are a sort of "make whatever you'd like!" type of deal, so you get beginners making their first (typically vanilla) levels, but also seasoned veterans pushing out more ASM-oriented content. It's this upper level playing field where compiling entries gets hairy.

Say you have an entry that uses custom physics (I know Strug's did in MaGL3) where you use a different status bar from vanilla and a different player character from vanilla SMW. How do you handle this in a compilation? The logistics are....I suppose tough to say the least. The only way it could be feasibly done is if there was a baserom that was packaged with the contest and available from the start, not unlike say SMWC's Baserom Level Design Contest (BLDC) or even the newer VLDCs (which come standard with infinite lives, a few default Map16 pages, and QoL Patches). However, I think that ruins the spirit of what MaGL is. MaGL should be, and remain to be, a very low-bar of entry contest. That doesn't mean the level quality should be low, but rather that it should be accessible to as many people as possible. Having a giant baserom to set up with rules and regulations regarding it I think would limit people from joining in. If the baserom is too obtuse, or the documentation is too confusing, it'll alienate newcomers from entering because the initial skill ceiling will be so much higher. Being able to just make whatever you'd like fits the more free-spirited and fun nature of the MaGLs in general. Want to make a vanilla level? Sure, go at it! Want to turn SMW into a CAVE Bullet Hell? If you can do it, the skys the limit! I think this should be the thinking that goes into the contest. If it's kept relaxed and fun, you'll get a lot more engagement from people who haven't tried SMW Hacking before, and want to give it a go because of how minimal the requirements are.

Then I suppose comes the question of potential postgame content. Personally, if I was playing a contest myself that was not in a compilation but did include additional supplementary content (whether that be Judge Levels, Audition Levels, a postgame, ect), I would want to end playing it with the 1st place entry. This is because regardless, the climax of the contest should be solely focused on who won, rather than the events surrounding them. However, I think in the context of an inevitable raocow lp, I'd have to imagine there would be some want for additional content after the 1st Place Entry to wrap things up. However, this can be a tricky path. In MaGLX2, the postgame almost dwarfed the actual competition as far as its content went, and by the end I had forgotten even who had won because it was so far removed from the contest. Similar, the inevitable hype that the VLDCs eventually got to caused a similar situation, where World X and what would go on there almost made the actual contest winner irrelevant. As a result, I would either propose two (really 3) different ideas on how to handle supplemental content. (Which, besides the potential inclusion of Application Levels, I don't think can really even be discussed right now. After all, how can you plan for Judge Levels when Judges haven't even been picked yet? Also, as mentioned, those shouldn't even really be discussed or created until the Judging itself is just about over, as the focus should be on the contest once again.)

Coffee Break Method
More or less how MaGL3 handled supplemental content. As it says on the tin, every X amount of levels, you get a little break and instead get to see supplemental content about the contest itself. This content would wrap up before the top 10-20 or so levels in order to keep the focus squarely on the levels.
"Postgame" Method
This would mean supplemental content is handled after the first place entry / contest as a whole, though there would be a slight variation. I think this method would only work if the content to proceeded the 1st place entry was relevant to the first place entry as a whole (ie through a relay level or something in the context of something like a MaGLX, though because there isn't a compilation that wouldn't work as well and would be tough to compile). This way, you could have a "conclusion" to the contest but the spotlight is still kept on the 1st place entry, which I think is a fair tradeoff.

Of those two, I personally think if there isn't a compilation that the Coffee Break Method would work the best. Of course it isn't perfect either, as it breaks the flow of the contest, but if you really want to show supplemental work that would probably be the best way to do it. The third of course would just be no supplemental content, and just show the entries as they are. I think this is a really reasonable choice as well, but in the context of raocow playing everything, I get the feeling that some people would be expecting more than just levels. I think it's a tough balance to strike, and honestly you probably won't please everyone. If there is a real want within the Talkhaus to show content beyond the submitted levels, then the Coffee Break method is probably the best route to go. While you may disrupt the flow and reveal of levels, truthfully both MaGLX3 and MaGL3 did it as well, so I suppose there's at least some precedent in Talkhaus contests for those at least.

Lastly, I just wanted to say that, while I had contributed an Audition level at Sancles' request, I am not really interested in being a proper Judge and would rather participate myself. I think that the Talkhaus could really use some fresh blood as far as the SMW Sphere goes, and I think that using a MaGL4 as a "trojan horse" of sorts to get the community re-interested in SMW hacking would be a fantastic idea! I also think that starting Judge Applications in late August (after both QLDC and the SMBX Choccy Contest finish up) is a great idea, because we'll be right off the heels of MaGLX3's conclusion and there won't be any foreseeable SMWC Hacking Contest until November or so (assuming proper level submissions for MaGL4 would be from around the Mid to End of September to the Mid to End of October).

Anyways, sorry for the worddump, hopefully this gets my own viewpoint on the contest in a more viewable area!
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PSI Ninja
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by PSI Ninja »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 months ago Anyone can join, though it's only me, Heraga and Sancles rn.
I don't think it has a lot of audience here on Talkhaus.
Feel free to prove me wrong though.
Ah, I see. I asked because there used to be a note to PM you for the invite in your signature, but it was removed after a few days. I'll send a PM in a bit.
Heraga wrote: 2 months ago MaGL should be, and remain to be, a very low-bar of entry contest. That doesn't mean the level quality should be low, but rather that it should be accessible to as many people as possible. Having a giant baserom to set up with rules and regulations regarding it I think would limit people from joining in. If the baserom is too obtuse, or the documentation is too confusing, it'll alienate newcomers from entering because the initial skill ceiling will be so much higher. Being able to just make whatever you'd like fits the more free-spirited and fun nature of the MaGLs in general. Want to make a vanilla level? Sure, go at it! Want to turn SMW into a CAVE Bullet Hell? If you can do it, the skys the limit! I think this should be the thinking that goes into the contest. If it's kept relaxed and fun, you'll get a lot more engagement from people who haven't tried SMW Hacking before, and want to give it a go because of how minimal the requirements are.
I agree with the whole premise here. Keep the rules simple and the restrictions few, so that entrants don't need to worry too much about inadvertently violating anything and be disqualified (unless it contains offensive stuff).
Heraga wrote: 2 months ago However, I think in the context of an inevitable raocow lp, I'd have to imagine there would be some want for additional content after the 1st Place Entry to wrap things up.
Do the people watching generally want additional content after the 1st place entry in a contest LP though? I don't know that they do. Maybe it makes more sense in a compilation hack that people would actually play, but that doesn't seem to be what we're going for with MaGL4. That said, I don't think we should discourage judges from contributing levels if they want to. In that case, I like the "Coffee Break" idea of MaGL3 to showcase the judge levels and (possibly) the audition levels. As long as they're paired up with at least one contestant's level, and not its own video, then I think it won't disrupt the flow of results too much (which raocow did anyway in his MaGL3 LP).

And as for the results, I'm assuming the plan is to uphold the tradition of revealing the placements in reverse order via daily videos? If we're going with that, then may I make a suggestion? How about giving the contestants a chance to "opt in" to receiving a PM from the contest organizer/judges once the results are compiled, giving their placement, score, and judge comments. By giving them a choice, they don't have to worry about the stress of not knowing where they placed for potentially weeks, while still keeping everyone else's placements a secret. Of course, the people who choose to opt in will have to abide by the honor system to not reveal their own placement to others, but it seems like people are doing a good job of not spoiling anything for MaGLX3, which was publicly released before the LP.
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Enjl
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Enjl »

Heraga wrote: 2 months ago Having a giant baserom to set up with rules and regulations regarding it I think would limit people from joining in. If the baserom is too obtuse, or the documentation is too confusing, it'll alienate newcomers from entering because the initial skill ceiling will be so much higher
Hard disagree if optional. The reason I never join SMW contests is cause SMW sucks without instant retry and I have no idea how to apply patches so I appreciate extra utility stuff being added. People who find it confusing can ignore it.
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LunarNeedle
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by LunarNeedle »

Going to be weird and suggest that while SMW is super fun - I actually think that the time between MAGLX3 ending and MAGLX4 starting is so massive that some of us want a taste of it again... but honestly, I'll take anything. SMW or SMBX - sign me up!

I could even judge, since I'm quite familiar with the engine and game design as a whole by this point. Hell, I've even graduated from SMW hacking to full on game development by the point MAGLX finished judging. Haha!

Although, wouldn't it be better that we assign a game runner - since they will decide the rubric, gimmick and possibly the judges?
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Heraga »

Enjl wrote: 1 month ago Hard disagree if optional. The reason I never join SMW contests is cause SMW sucks without instant retry and I have no idea how to apply patches so I appreciate extra utility stuff being added. People who find it confusing can ignore it.
Do you mean a QoL baserom akin to VLDC (ie just including core QoL patches like infinite lives, retry, and bugfixes)? That type of baserom I don't think would be that harmful because the actual resources are still fairly understandable on the end-user's level and wouldn't change how they make levels. The type of Baserom I was really talking about was one akin to BLDC or 24hoSMW14 where it can be sometimes hard for a new user to pitch in because of how much was added/changed from base SMW. For example, BLDC had LX5's Powerup Patch which changed how sprite slots are handled on screen. 24hoSMW14 utilized the new Dynamic Sprite System that allows for any SMW Sprite to be placed in a level and have their graphics show up regardless of the ExGFX slot. I think that this can be hard for a new user to learn, and it also limits what more programming-end users are able to do because they have to contend with all of the new resources and have to make sure their code doesn't conflict with those in the documentation. In contrast, the VLDC Baserom serves as more of a "starting point" for new users and doesn't include any new code beyond those needed for something in a contest setting (most of those patches don't interfere with other code/hijacks as much anymore, so it wouldn't impact ASM-end users.)

I'm sorry if my post sounded geared towards entirely anti-baserom! I'm more "anti-confusing baserom" if that makes sense haha, I would completely agree with a VLDC type of baserom (and also include maybe requiring infinite lives in the rules too, considering VLDC and CLDC both have done that as of late.)
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