raocow's talkhaus

Having a double location definitely opens up more doorways for creativity. Levels would otherwise feel pretty one-note, especially with how the gimmick works.

ano0maly wrote: ↑7 years ago

sedron wrote: ↑7 years agoYou guys have created examples of two adjectives working for level design, but none of the examples frankly excite me.

That's... just you though. You said that locations is the only option that makes sense. Dragon Fogel disagrees.

sedron wrote:You guys have created examples of two adjectives working for level design, but none of the examples frankly excite me. I can think of tons of two location examples that DO excite me. Even the one example table had a couple of ideas that I thought were really cool. Obviously this is going to be very subjective (and I think a lot of the problem with this entire argument is just how subjective this all is,) but that can't really be helped.

Yeah. But I'm wondering why you seem to be imposing your personal preference as an argument in response, when all I keep seeing is this awkward imbalance.

yeah sed, it's not like opinions on the format are being requested and opinions are being given in compliance, why are you bringing personal preferences into it

Im also in support of "any of the above" instead of two locations. People who want to make levels with two locations still can, and people who dont dont have to. The "two locations" idea biases itself towards longer levels that go from location to location (i know you could combine them but i'd imagine most would keep them discrete), which means many levels will have similar progression. The "any of the above" choice will lead to the greatest variety in types of level design, which is a good thing.

sedron wrote: ↑7 years agoYou guys have created examples of two adjectives working for level design, but none of the examples frankly excite me. I can think of tons of two location examples that DO excite me. Even the one example table had a couple of ideas that I thought were really cool. Obviously this is going to be very subjective (and I think a lot of the problem with this entire argument is just how subjective this all is,) but that can't really be helped.

Yeah, the subjectivity is kinda the entire crux of my argument here honestly. :p You find a lot of exciting potential in two locations, and of course that's fine, and I'm certainly not gonna deny there's a lot of potential there. But I personally am a lot more excited as a designer about the potential of two verbs; Fogel looks to be pretty into two adjectives; people are all gonna be inspired by different combinations of elements, and restricting them to what any particular person - or subset of people, even - thinks will make the best ideas is just silly. The point of the gimmick (aside from keeping peeps from just submitting whatever level they have sitting around) is to give participants inspiration and ideas - why, then, do we want to restrict which column they're allowed to derive inspiration and ideas from combining two of?

Enjl wrote:I wouldn't be opposed to "two of any" but "two locations" sounds like it'd honestly bring out the most interesting results of all.
The trouble you might run into otherwise is that the other NPC opens up the choice of something that can easily be slapped next to the other NPC and work well, and stuff like a second adjective or verb might be too abstract to properly work with.
I think given the fact you get to choose between 3 locations to fit into your idea an lead the idea into some cool new directions and will almost always have a pretty obvious connection to one of the other three.

You're never not gonna have some chance of an easy combination coming up though, if that's a concern for you; you can still wind up with '"forest" and "treehouse," or "island" and "sea," or "factory" and "city" even if you specifically force two locations in an effort to prevent that. And since when are easy combinations a concern in this contest series that's given us such level names as "Run Quickly" or "Assault the Castle!" or even "hi my name is peach, and i have a problem"? :v
As for two adjectives or two verbs being too abstract to work with - I'm not suggesting we force peeps to use two from a specific one of the other lists, you know. :p I'm suggesting we let them choose what actually gives them a solid idea they want to work with. And if their usage of the two verbs or two adjectives is too abstract - if that's your concern - they'll lose points for it, because that's not a good implementation of those two verbs or two adjectives. Plain and simple.

ohmato wrote:Having a double location definitely opens up more doorways for creativity. Levels would otherwise feel pretty one-note, especially with how the gimmick works.

Like, I'm not gonna go so far as to outright say you're "objectively" incorrect here, but I honestly fail to see how telling people they can only use two locations opens up more doors than letting them use two of one of the other columns instead if they so choose? Like, you're literally closing doorways that way, aren't you? >_>

Zyglrox Odyssey wrote: ↑7 years ago

ohmato wrote:Having a double location definitely opens up more doorways for creativity. Levels would otherwise feel pretty one-note, especially with how the gimmick works.

Like, I'm not gonna go so far as to outright say you're "objectively" incorrect here, but I honestly fail to see how telling people they can only use two locations opens up more doors than letting them use two of one of the other columns instead if they so choose? Like, you're literally closing doorways that way, aren't you? >_>

No, all I was doing was throwing in my two bits about having two location columns making it far more interesting than just one. I said nothing about the other thing.

I sensed that MAGLX3 was being discussed and came back as a zombie poster as soon as I could.

For what it's worth, I vouch for the Verb-Location-NPC-Adjective-YourPick option. Forcing two locations, while it does force some good creativity, won't really allow for different kinds of creativity. I think about levels in real Mario games like "Freezeflame Galaxy" and the like where it's a combination of two opposites or two different styles of locales, and those are some of my favorites, but a whole game full of them could get tiresome. We can only really appreciate those kinds of levels when you have the really good forest/desert/pipe levels that have their own way of standing out.

Also, I think those who wish to make risky levels that go for the whole "experience" style gameplay, or some other out-of-the-blue level concepts, should understand that those are "risky" levels because they will inherently have a niche audience, and so they might not score so high for some of the judges. That's just how it is with those levels. And honestly, I think those levels are made more for the fun of it and to provide something unique and innovative than to actually win.

Does this even need to be an announcement any more

I mean, I think we're probably done? Any more talk on the current (or month-old) subject would just be more "hey here's my opinion" "HOW DARE YOU" so I can't imagine it'd be productive.

Some kind of update would be neat, though. Where's this contest at?

Within the week judge applications will start, I've been setting up this last sample level for judges to test out.

You can get rid of this topic. I'll just post a separate one for the judge stuff.

So what did you end up deciding on the subject we were arguing about all those months ago, regarding whether to allow doubling up on any category? Or are you going to answer that in the judging thread?

I've been leaning more towards the "any of the above" option, as then peeps can choose whatever their lovely little heart desires.

maggle x is dumb

Hmm, id like to join this actually. il be honest that i didn't really read the very first post so i don't know when it will start, deadline and stuff. All il say is that i won't be able to work on it this week.

Edit: Il do my best to not remake the horror and error i made in Maglx2

Sturg wrote: ↑6 years ago I've been leaning more towards the "any of the above" option, as then peeps can choose whatever their lovely little heart desires.

Okay, so when will you start accepting the levels?

CloudyCloud wrote: ↑6 years agoOkay, so when will you start accepting the levels?

hold up
we haven't even started selecting judges yet