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Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

would you like to participate in some fun contests? would you like to create some fun contests? well ^_^
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Divemissile » 3 years ago

if someone could give some feedback on my level that'd be nice

i think my level had some decent ideas, but you can kinda tell i just made up obstacles as i went on (plus the final bit kinda goes against the gimmick)

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby ft029 » 3 years ago

Damn, about 60% of the posts in this thread are selfish. How about some general thing like "everybody wants their level played and feedback'd on" so that there are more relatively useful posts. thx
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby S.N.N. » 3 years ago

I mean, there's really nothing wrong with people "selfishly" asking for feedback. There's not much else to discuss about the contest until the results start being fired off in the LP, so I'm pretty happy to see that people care enough about their entries to want to even ask for critique in the first place.

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Reecer7 » 3 years ago

some people are just dedicated to finding a way to paint someone in a bad light in every contest, i guess. can't have a conflict without a heel.

i mean, playing heel is more fun anyway. you get to injure slash murder people without anyone expecting any better of you!
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » 3 years ago

ft029 wrote:Damn, about 60% of the posts in this thread are selfish. How about some general thing like "everybody wants their level played and feedback'd on" so that there are more relatively useful posts. thx
I played Enjl and Sanct's levels both, and I found them both to be fun. I would say Sanct would make top 40 or top 20. Depends on how many people use ASM. As for Enjl, i found it harder than my level. Mainly due to my lack of SMW knowledge. The five dragon coins are quite a pain to get. It taught me a lot about Super Mario World. If anyone wants me to test their level, I will. I am not good at SMW, but I can also assure that I will try my hardest. If a level requires save-states, then I will not be able to play it. (No level needs save-states, it is just harder without them). I am a terrible SMW player, but still. All I ask is that if I am going to critique someone's level, the reverse should also be true.
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ft029 wrote:@MECHDRAGON777 I had to use savestates, so the difficulty is a bit too high. A little more variety would have helped though. Other than that, your level is pretty good.

yeah I have very high standards
So half of the people who made a comment on my level had to use savestates. (Two people used Save States, while two did not. Thanks for calling the level pretty good though. What was hard about it? As for Sanct, I am going to try your level.
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby SAJewers » 3 years ago

When does the LP start? after raocow's done with Star Road?
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby raocow » 3 years ago

since star road is going to be one of those several months long project (probably?) I'm actually goign to interrupt star road at a key point that makes sense to do magl3
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Willhart » 3 years ago

Looking forward to it. Cannot wait to see what other people have made (and win).

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Enjl » 3 years ago

I should've probably fixed that blind jump before submitting, whoops.

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby nothobz » 3 years ago

Enjl wrote:I should've probably fixed that blind jump before submitting, whoops.
maybe next year :)

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Le Neveu de Rameau » 3 years ago

Divemissile wrote:if someone could give some feedback on my level that'd be nice

i think my level had some decent ideas, but you can kinda tell i just made up obstacles as i went on (plus the final bit kinda goes against the gimmick)
I love wintry environments, especially nighttime ones, but the atmosphere here is marred a touch by some oddities with the palettes. The trees and the starry background appear to share a palette, which doesn't looks very good for the stars--and yet there's plenty of free palette space (indeed, palette 5 is completely unused), so this is could easily be avoided. The Shy Guys also look odd; they weren't really made for the unaltered, default palettes. The level is also inconsistent on how it handles the texture for the inside of the solid ground; in some cases it's filled in entirely, in others not at all, in some partially. It looks a touch unfinished in that respect. I appreciate your foresight making new tiles for the missing ones and the bottom of the goal post, the stripes look a little odd swtiching direction like that. X-flipping both tiles would bring them better in line (they still won't match up perfectly, but it will look good enough to pass a cursory glance).

As for the level itself:

A major issue is that the level uses some non-standard mechanics, but doesn't really establish them before making serious use of them, with serious consequences for screwing up. Peach's unique abilities, for one, would probably serve to be better more clearly laid out at the start of the level, especially considering she doesn't behave entirely as she did in SMB2, either. The R move in particular took me off guard, and sent me hurtling in to the Munchers the first time I tired it out. The moves suggested by the blue coins also don't (as far as I can tell) appear to be the most efficacious in their respective areas...? This is probably due to differences in playing style, but I have to admit I wasn't entirely sure what exactly you were trying to encourage the player to do at those points. The relationship between Peach's hover ability and bouncing off of multiple enemies should also be established earlier (especially as it's a complete non-factor in SMB2, due to a lack of stoppable enemies) instead of being a surprise when one's trying to traverse a yawning ravine, especially as this is a major factor in the later level.

The SMB2 enemies are handled inconsistently, which isn't necessarily a terrible thing, but again needs to be made clear to the player ahead of time. The Shy Guys, for instance, are rideable (on a purely personal note, I never really liked SMB2 enemies being rideable but not carriable, as they always unfinished to me that way, but that's my own personal hangup), but the Beezos are instead stompable. Again, that's hardly disqualifying, but the first time the player runs into a Beezo, it's over a pit. As the player is likely to initially assume (based on the Shyguys they encountered earlier) that the Beezos, too, are rideable, their stompability will likely come as a fatal surprise, especially if they've already expended Peach's hover (which again, they may not realize isn't recharged after a bounce). This could be easily avoided by having the Beezos first be encountered on solid ground.

Additionally, the level is very short, especially the second half. Indeed, not only is it shorter still than the already short first half, it basically just repeats an idea found in the first half. At the very least, it should probably try to introduce to new element, or combine previous obstacles (this could help alleviate the mysterious absence of the previously established Shy Guys after the first few screens). If you really didn't feel you could make the level any longer, it's probably best to take out the midpoint entirely; then, at least, you seem to be going for more of an SMB3 approach to level structure. As it stands, the level does seem to be entirely certain what it's going for, instead taking a few halting steps in several different directions before just giving up and calling it a day.

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby kuposan3 » 3 years ago

i guess since everyone is doing it i guess i should ask for some feedback on my level

i was a little worried about it being short (because i don't know if people like shorter levels, given how long levels in maglx contests tend to be <_<) but it sounds like there are a bunch of shorter ones so i guess i'm fine

i'll just be happy if people enjoyed it <3

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Kerkec » 3 years ago

I don't need feedback because I threw my level together in roughly six hours the night before submissions were due after months of being away from LM, so I know it's totally the best ever, good luck next year everyone

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby idol » 3 years ago

these dont happen every year so unless that changes it'll probably be maglx3 next year with 1000 entries

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby ft029 » 3 years ago

Kerkec wrote:I don't need feedback because I threw my level together in roughly six hours the night before submissions were due after months of being away from LM, so I know it's totally the best ever, good luck next year everyone
wait you made that cakewalk level hehe
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Le Neveu de Rameau » 3 years ago

kuposan3 wrote:i guess since everyone is doing it i guess i should ask for some feedback on my level

i was a little worried about it being short (because i don't know if people like shorter levels, given how long levels in maglx contests tend to be <_<) but it sounds like there are a bunch of shorter ones so i guess i'm fine

i'll just be happy if people enjoyed it <3

It was indeed a quality level, and I quite enjoyed playing it. It didn't necessarily try to do anything groundbreaking in terms of gameplay--it's a pretty straightforward autoscroller focusing on three commonly grouped-together enemies from the castle set--but what it does, it does well. Autoscrollers can run the risk of either boring the player (if they're too slow) or making the player feel as though they lack control (if they're too fast), but this works to complement the action well, and assures that the level moves along at the intended pace without getting overwhelming. All the setups are well-done; nothing seems repetitive despite the focus on just three enemy types, nor do any of them seem cheap or unfair. I did vaguely wonder if the ideal mode of progression from the L to D near the end couldn't have been better hinted at--the way things are set up, one might expect one ought to spin bounce off the Ball-n'-Chain, but by far the surest method is a running leap from the L (despite this looking more dubious at a glance), and there really isn't much time to think things over or experiment. But even then, this feels like a pretty minor concern all things considered.

The level length seems fine to me. It's a moderately challenging and high-energy stage, so "short but intense" in a perfectly reasonable approach to take. More important is the overall structure (does the level start out simpler and build to a climax?) and the level succeeds on thar front. Finding the sweet spot of length can be a tricky and subjective thing, but as a general rule of thumb, a level which leaves the player wanting just a bit more is usually better than one that wears out its welcome.

The monochrome æsthetic is a nice approach (and both complements and provides a counterpoint to the "back to basics" approach to the gameplay), and both the terrain and Ball-n'-Chains look great in literal black and white. Thwomps and Dry Bones aren't quite as good as their flailing friends--it might have been a good idea to edit their graphics slightly to better emphasize their contours rather than solely asjusting palettes--but still look pretty decent on the whole. The one element that falls flat is Mario, who looks like a goofball in his oversized feety pyjamas standing under a blacklight. At a minimum, I'd recommend replacing colors 3, 8 and A in Mario's palette with black to emphasize his outlines; this would put him on par with the Thwomps and Dry Bones in terms of appearance, or even slightly better. But like the other non-Ball-n'-Chain sprites, editing his graphics slightly to emphasize his contours could be a potential improvement as well.

The music leaves nothing to complain about: intense, fast-paced, and perfectly suits the action. A fine choice for the level.

On the whole, a very solid level which uses very basic ingredients, but handles them quite well. No super-great risks, admittedly, but it still feels fresh despite this. I'd expect it to be in the upper third of rankings.

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby King of GETs » 3 years ago

kuposan3 wrote:i guess since everyone is doing it i guess i should ask for some feedback on my level

i was a little worried about it being short (because i don't know if people like shorter levels, given how long levels in maglx contests tend to be <_<) but it sounds like there are a bunch of shorter ones so i guess i'm fine

i'll just be happy if people enjoyed it <3
You level was only 14 screens long, yet you had 12 Dry Bones, 28 Thwomps, and 46 Maces. I had to give up on the "L" on the word "COOL" as neither the Thwomp nor the Mace would line up properly for me to do a spin jump off of, but maybe I wasn't going fast enough. When you have to put a life at the start and midpoint of the level just to entice the player to keep trying, you know your level is too hard for the average player.

Your level will be judged based on each judge's skill level, and if you have judges who just want a fun time judging and not playing a Kaizo Lite level, you probably won't score very well. We don't know who the judges are at this time, so there's no way to tell how difficulty will come into play since the major scoring factor is "fun" and people have different ideas on what level of difficulty is fun. However, I do enjoy levels that require actual skill and timing, so I enjoyed this one.

Le Neveu de Rameau wrote:
I did vaguely wonder if the ideal mode of progression from the L to D near the end couldn't have been better hinted at--the way things are set up, one might expect one ought to spin bounce off the Ball-n'-Chain, but by far the surest method is a running leap from the L (despite this looking more dubious at a glance), and there really isn't much time to think things over or experiment.


Yeah, I replayed it and made the jump. Timing that with the Mace on the lower-right, the two maces on the left, and the Thwomp from above during a medium-paced auto-scroll was ridiculous, so I just tanked a hit.

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby ft029 » 3 years ago

Megalomania is not "Kaizo lite" or anything even near. I actually beat it on my first try, which I cannot say for most of the levels this time around. It just looks hard.

I think Zyglrox Odyssey's is true "Kaizo: light".
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Divemissile » 3 years ago

Le Neveu de Rameau wrote:
Divemissile wrote:if someone could give some feedback on my level that'd be nice

i think my level had some decent ideas, but you can kinda tell i just made up obstacles as i went on (plus the final bit kinda goes against the gimmick)
I love wintry environments, especially nighttime ones, but the atmosphere here is marred a touch by some oddities with the palettes. The trees and the starry background appear to share a palette, which doesn't looks very good for the stars--and yet there's plenty of free palette space (indeed, palette 5 is completely unused), so this is could easily be avoided. The Shy Guys also look odd; they weren't really made for the unaltered, default palettes. The level is also inconsistent on how it handles the texture for the inside of the solid ground; in some cases it's filled in entirely, in others not at all, in some partially. It looks a touch unfinished in that respect. I appreciate your foresight making new tiles for the missing ones and the bottom of the goal post, the stripes look a little odd swtiching direction like that. X-flipping both tiles would bring them better in line (they still won't match up perfectly, but it will look good enough to pass a cursory glance).

As for the level itself:

A major issue is that the level uses some non-standard mechanics, but doesn't really establish them before making serious use of them, with serious consequences for screwing up. Peach's unique abilities, for one, would probably serve to be better more clearly laid out at the start of the level, especially considering she doesn't behave entirely as she did in SMB2, either. The R move in particular took me off guard, and sent me hurtling in to the Munchers the first time I tired it out. The moves suggested by the blue coins also don't (as far as I can tell) appear to be the most efficacious in their respective areas...? This is probably due to differences in playing style, but I have to admit I wasn't entirely sure what exactly you were trying to encourage the player to do at those points. The relationship between Peach's hover ability and bouncing off of multiple enemies should also be established earlier (especially as it's a complete non-factor in SMB2, due to a lack of stoppable enemies) instead of being a surprise when one's trying to traverse a yawning ravine, especially as this is a major factor in the later level.

The SMB2 enemies are handled inconsistently, which isn't necessarily a terrible thing, but again needs to be made clear to the player ahead of time. The Shy Guys, for instance, are rideable (on a purely personal note, I never really liked SMB2 enemies being rideable but not carriable, as they always unfinished to me that way, but that's my own personal hangup), but the Beezos are instead stompable. Again, that's hardly disqualifying, but the first time the player runs into a Beezo, it's over a pit. As the player is likely to initially assume (based on the Shyguys they encountered earlier) that the Beezos, too, are rideable, their stompability will likely come as a fatal surprise, especially if they've already expended Peach's hover (which again, they may not realize isn't recharged after a bounce). This could be easily avoided by having the Beezos first be encountered on solid ground.

Additionally, the level is very short, especially the second half. Indeed, not only is it shorter still than the already short first half, it basically just repeats an idea found in the first half. At the very least, it should probably try to introduce to new element, or combine previous obstacles (this could help alleviate the mysterious absence of the previously established Shy Guys after the first few screens). If you really didn't feel you could make the level any longer, it's probably best to take out the midpoint entirely; then, at least, you seem to be going for more of an SMB3 approach to level structure. As it stands, the level does seem to be entirely certain what it's going for, instead taking a few halting steps in several different directions before just giving up and calling it a day.

thanks for the criticism! anyways, the r button move wasn't supposed to be in there. the asm hack that had peach's abilities included it and i tried to remove it, but gave up quickly. looking back, i should've tried a bit harder to take it out since i had so much extra time when i finished.

the whole conflict with bouncing on certain enemies was due to me wanting to do something cool with riding on shy guys, but i couldn't find a way to squeeze it in while i was developing it.

the reason the midpoint is so unbalanced is cause i found the final beezo hopping bit to be pretty tough, and felt having a midpoint before it would be nice. i'm not a big fan of big tough endurance levels, but i think i could've removed the 1up near the midpoint to make the final bit less "throw yourself at this over and over again until you win".

the whole thing with the floor texture was just because i couldn't decide which looked better haha

but really, thanks for the indepth critique! i hope my response doesn't sound too much like me making excuses, i'm just trying to explain why i made some of these decisions.

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Zygl » 3 years ago

ft029 wrote:I think Zyglrox Odyssey's is true "Kaizo: light".
:3
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby King of GETs » 3 years ago

ft029 wrote:Megalomania is not "Kaizo lite" or anything even near. I actually beat it on my first try, which I cannot say for most of the levels this time around. It just looks hard.

I think Zyglrox Odyssey's is true "Kaizo: light".
Then our playstyles differ greatly since I beat most of the levels in this contest within my first few tries, Zyglrox Odyssey's being no exception. His level isn't hard by any means. It's just a bunch of quirky timing. The only "hard" part was the vine part right before the key.

I think I'm just better at using critical thinking and moving a certain way in situations with ample time whereas the autoscroll forces me into a box and makes me keep moving.

Now, give Zyglrox Odyssey's level a fast autoscroll, and THERE'S your Kaizo level.

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby raekuul » 3 years ago

i would ask for feedback on my level, but really all I want to know is if you chuckled a bit once you finished.
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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby Le Neveu de Rameau » 3 years ago

raekuul wrote:i would ask for feedback on my level, but really all I want to know is if you chuckled a bit once you finished.
My initial response, if I recall correctly, was "Well, that certainly did happen."

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby MECHDRAGON777 » 3 years ago

Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:
ft029 wrote:I think Zyglrox Odyssey's is true "Kaizo: light".
:3
I can not even play your level. I went to patch it, and nope. It says corrupted file. (both emulators I have)

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Re: Make A Good Level Contest (SMW) 3 - Discussion

Postby ft029 » 3 years ago

King of GETs wrote:Then our playstyles differ greatly since I beat most of the levels in this contest within my first few tries, Zyglrox Odyssey's being no exception. His level isn't hard by any means. It's just a bunch of quirky timing. The only "hard" part was the vine part right before the key.

I think I'm just better at using critical thinking and moving a certain way in situations with ample time
There's not that much critical thinking involved in his level. It's just extremely precise. Or did you only beat the normal exit and not the secret exit?

EDIT: Just tried the secret exit about 15 times and didn't get past the chuck part. You must be a god at smw if you can beat his level that quickly.
Last edited by ft029 on 11 Oct 2016, 05:35, edited 1 time in total.
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