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MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

would you like to participate in some fun contests? would you like to create some fun contests? well ^_^
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Enjl
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Enjl »

Heraga wrote: 1 month ago I'm sorry if my post sounded geared towards entirely anti-baserom! I'm more "anti-confusing baserom" if that makes sense haha, I would completely agree with a VLDC type of baserom (and also include maybe requiring infinite lives in the rules too, considering VLDC and CLDC both have done that as of late.)


Right, yeah, must've misunderstood. Even then, I wouldn't be opposed to a baserom that's more heavily expanded with the likes of utility items you might find in MICE, with custom blocks, powerups and sprites like one-way walls, superball flower, bumpties and whatever else other tool expand the amount of things you can do out of the box. Things like "alters how sprite slots work" is kinda iffy, I agree, so I think some form of comproimise between features and accessibility would be ideal.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Heraga wrote: 1 month ago aikotoba wa

afro to gunsou
I'll definitely be a judge, I'm terrible with deadlines Image

My taste lies in Japanese or lolyoshi style efforts but I grew up with The Second Reality Project as well so... JUMP burned me out both times but feel free to make those levels anyway, I don't want people to try to cater to the judges.
Heraga wrote: 1 month ago I think that the Talkhaus could really use some fresh blood as far as the SMW Sphere goes, and I think that using a MaGL4 as a "trojan horse" of sorts to get the community re-interested in SMW hacking would be a fantastic idea!
reject smbx, return to world
Enjl wrote: 1 month ago Hard disagree if optional. The reason I never join SMW contests is cause SMW sucks without instant retry and I have no idea how to apply patches so I appreciate extra utility stuff being added. People who find it confusing can ignore it.
I could try writing tutorials for like SMBXers if they want. Some of the SMWC ones are somewhat jank and I was thinking of making an ASM tutorial suite that uses the debugger more to see what does what by having the hacker do things, instead of just going with the longwinded explanations of the tutorial and messing with RAM. If idol and the like are okay with it, they're free to mirror it on their site once I get some more work done.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Sancles — Hoje às 21:54
make another post AND put it in the op in big bold letters
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not-raocow sanctioned romhack shack discort on OP now, come one come all, smwc, smbx or whatever

I'd like general maggle discussion to still be in this thread so it's public, but we can use the server as a general chatroom to showcase our stuff, occasionally mirroring it on the official romhack shack thread and whatnot
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Heraga »

Enjl wrote: 1 month ago Right, yeah, must've misunderstood. Even then, I wouldn't be opposed to a baserom that's more heavily expanded with the likes of utility items you might find in MICE, with custom blocks, powerups and sprites like one-way walls, superball flower, bumpties and whatever else other tool expand the amount of things you can do out of the box. Things like "alters how sprite slots work" is kinda iffy, I agree, so I think some form of comproimise between features and accessibility would be ideal.
I had slightly discussed this with Valentine (Sancles) and Lion yesterday regarding this. Honestly your comment brought up a good point to me-- I'm sure you're not the only user who would enter more SMW contests if QoL tools were more accessible or packaged in. On the same token however, I think there's something to be said about included resources having the ability to sway how a designer thinks about making a level. For example, in its simplest form, the inclusion of infinite lives / retry typically has the trend of causing the level designer to design harder levels (which can be afforded due to more lenient checkpoints and no need to grind for lives). The same could also be said on a larger scale if you were to include all the resources MICE had, though that comes at the cost of resources conflicting with some things end-users may want to add. (It's also important to say that those custom powerups aren't even maintained anymore, and aren't even compatible with future SA-1 / LM versions as a result.) I think things like the Mario/Sprite Only blocks in the context to SMW will have a designer probably mimicking ideas from Jump1/2 because of how prevalent those blocks are used there, and how much those blocks are associated with that hack (though perhaps less now that they've been publicly released and begun to appear in various Kaizo hacks in the SMWC sphere). While that isn't a bad thing by any means, it runs the risk of a lot of entries becoming same-y, because they are all working with and in the same small pool of resources that the baserom provided.

I think there is some merit to at the very least offering a baserom though with resources included for people who don't know the inner workings of inserting their own custom things into SMW themselves. In that case though, similar to what CLDC did last year, I think requiring infinite lives / a life farm (maybe even retry too, but that is also a big jump for end users) for all entries if not using the baserom would be a good idea. The way CLDC handled this was providing an infinite lives patch (as well as how to apply it to Asar for beginners).

I think it would be worth discussing, in the event that an optional baserom was made and included for people to use as a basis for their entry, the potential included resources that users here would like to see in it (ie Mario/Sprite Blocks, Screen Scroll Pipes, One-way Walls, ect much as Enjl mentioned), because at least that way the final resources would be both publicly known and publicly accepted prior to the contest's start.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Valentine »

After some discussion, we've decided that I'll be taking over as the organizer and lead of MaGL4. The rest of the team will be around until we finalize the ruleset and general contest timeframe, but they will be entering the contest and not judging it.

If anyone has any questions, concerns or other messages of great importance, You can reach me via: here (be it this thread, or PMs), discordhaus, the server in the main post, or by just messaging me on discord directly (Valentine#0402)!

Once the judge applications start, I'll be creating a new thread for that to keep things organized, if you wish to be pinged for when that happens you can also drop a "Ping me when judge apps start" message or something similar and i'll do it.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

im in it to win it
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Daizo »

I'm in it to have fun with it.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

Daizo wrote: 1 month ago I'm in it to have fun with it.
yeah me too im just memeing.

though... im starting a bit early for asm purposes. is that okay with everyone? heraga said i might as well, but i want to be fair to everyone.
valentine/sancles urged me to not divulge much of my level for fairness between entries and honestly? i feel her. i tried to start a bit today but, the whole "konaka tried to write digimon tamers fanfiction about cancel culture" thing kind of distracted me for a while because it was like a gruesome car accident, couldn't avert my eyes
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by idol »

good luck have fun vally also dont let the bugs bite
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

idol wrote: 1 month ago good luck have fun vally also dont let the bugs bite
thank you charlotte
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by Cecil Deacon »

I'm Vivian Darkbloom. And I'm interested in this contest. Having a baserom with some custom stuff would be fun.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by idol »

um i don't know why you had to respond to that lion, but you're welcome i guess
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

i'm like dogs and i just do things arbitrarily, don't think about it too much

also hi dorkblom
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by PSI Ninja »

KobaBeach wrote: 1 month ago though... im starting a bit early for asm purposes. is that okay with everyone? heraga said i might as well, but i want to be fair to everyone.
valentine/sancles urged me to not divulge much of my level for fairness between entries and honestly? i feel her. i tried to start a bit today but, the whole "konaka tried to write digimon tamers fanfiction about cancel culture" thing kind of distracted me for a while because it was like a gruesome car accident, couldn't avert my eyes
I think it's fine. I mean, you can't really stop anyone from planning out what they'll make ahead of time anyway. For example, I'm currently testing out a few ideas I wish to explore for my own entry (but won't start the actual level design until submissions begin). I appreciate you being up front about it though.

On that note, that might be part of the reason why specific gimmicks and themes are revealed at the last minute by some contest organizers and hosts. To discourage level-making ahead of time. But there's probably no way to tell how effective a measure that has been over the years, though. Personally, I don't believe something like that will do much to deter people from prefabbing parts of their level ahead of time, and just kind of force it to fit in with the gimmick (especially if they really wanted to).

Anyway, cool to see you wanting to make a level for the contest, Koba. And good luck on running the contest, Valentine!
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by endlessl »

I've never touched SMW hacking but I'd be willing to try. Its for fun, after all.
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by TiKi »

Heraga wrote: 1 month ago(It's also important to say that those custom powerups aren't even maintained anymore, and aren't even compatible with future SA-1 / LM versions as a result.)
i thought that code was open-source and on github and all? or is smw code of the kind where unless you're the original author it's basically unreadable
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Re: MaGL4 - Interest Fishing Period

Post by KobaBeach »

TiKi wrote: 1 month ago
Heraga wrote: 1 month ago(It's also important to say that those custom powerups aren't even maintained anymore, and aren't even compatible with future SA-1 / LM versions as a result.)
i thought that code was open-source and on github and all? or is smw code of the kind where unless you're the original author it's basically unreadable
the thing about smw code is that

1) it's assembly so it's a lot of opcodes and numbers, unless they have it commented or you have a debugger, you're fucked
2) lunar magic fucks up a lot of things by its black box and patch reliant nature

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

also just an aside, i'm dropping out of magl4 despite planning on entering. call it cringeworthy but i have legit trauma wrt deadlines due to academia and i was basically stressing myself out with ~15 hour long "work days" on learning mode 7 before the submissions started so i had "enough time" to code my asm and it got to the point i was dissociating over figuring out how to get a looping stretch of water tiles and managing my hdma channels

stage plan:
a normal mario stage but focusing around a powerup similar to the sword power up from kirby, set in a place similar to grape garden from revenge of meta knight.

frist checkpoint, halfway through you get on yoshi and he flies up and it's a mode 7 rail shooter segment similar to that one brutal mario demo.

second checkpoint, some exploring of the halberd, further exploration of the sword, followed by a sigma wolf mech boss.

third checkpoint, the innards of the halberd, then an eiko carol boss, as a pun on carol. she'd have a moveset similar to carol's carmilla queen or maxwell from tales of phantasia along with a layer 2 madeen summon (not sure how to fit them in)

fourth checkpoint, the escape sequence as madeen gives chase

end stage
this would require:
* a sword attack sprite (possibly with meta knightmare attacks?), and graphics from kirby super star (already ripped with snesgfx)
* health control levelasm
* health bar display sprite (was gonna use megaman x graphics)
* all of the above would require some amount of testing
* warp star styled yoshi sprite, would require testing
* kirby background graphics, snesgfx
* kirby enemy graphics and a few enemy sprites, would require testing
* a twin woods boss, forgot about this!!!!!!!!!!!! wouldn't require too much testing since it's a hitbox, a few states and layer 2 i think? only a few days to a week

mode 7:
* easy mode 7 patch from smwc (please remod this, smwc mod lurkers i'm begging you, maks had to help me get it to work with some edits from me)
* 1 hdma channel for layer 1 scrolling (mode 7) to simulate a horizon
* 2-4 hdma channels for affine transformations to sell the horizon effect
* 1 hdma channel for background color to make a background gradient
* possible 1 hdma channel for the "fill empty area with topleftmost tile" bit (possibly fixes the strip of water issue)
* levelasm that updates smw's mode 7 scaling table
* rail shooter sprites (cross hair, projectiles from halberd, healthbar display, sprite blocks for clouds)
* possibly healthbar control levelasm
* all of this would require extensive testing and there is like. 8? dma channels available on the snes, of which smw uses like four, so i have to be careful to not fuck up the sprite oam one
* halberd pre-render and chrono trigger overworld water tile, already ripped by myself with snesgfx

halberd:
* mechanical foreground, would just take one from smwc
* kirby background, snesgfx
* a secondary mechanic to provide setups with the sword
* sigma wolf mech boss, with the main hitbox, the hand platforms, their patterns and projectiles? as the states in the state machine, which would require extensive testing
* possibly a tertiary mechanic to help add to the secondary mechanic, could also not be needed
* eiko and madeen from ff9 custom graphics (if madeen is just a layer 2 graphic like the summons in circle of the moon i could get away with using their (madeen's moogle form is a her in english at least) final fantasy record keeper graphics)
* eiko sprite with attack patterns and madeen for states, which would also require extensive testing

escape:
* madeen sprite and custom graphics
* wheelie sprite and mechanics, would require testing
* ending background

maybe i had too much on my plate? jk i definitely had
it's inspired by carol's battleship halberd and the first part of the unfinished luigi omen, stronghold of the skies (original name: tenkuu yousai luigi dream), thus the use of eiko carol
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