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SDS 2

Kil
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Kil »

TiKi wrote:Kood's actually my favorite, if you mean the kinda buggy hitbox okay but who doesn't get behind a playable Koopa
Well obviously. But one of the main advantages of as**mt stuff has always been being able to get away from official copyrighted Nintendo stuff. On top of that it's not just a koopa but a meme character from a random hack of questionable quality. I really have no idea what happened there.
Zyglrox Odyssey wrote:Does SDS still require a different LunaDLL from A2XT's? Because if it does I support the notion of doing a separate base game, that way we could do any player graphic swaps we want and also not have to swap around LunaDLLs.
I don't really have any strong opinion either way on the graphic swapping, but if we have to copy LunaDLLs around to make the game work anyway we might as well kill two birds with one stone, I think.
that shouldn't be necessary.
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TiKi
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Re: SDS 2

Post by TiKi »

Oh yeah, why is the default Ninji still in ASMBXT2?
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Willhart
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Willhart »

TiKi wrote:Oh yeah, why is the default Ninji still in ASMBXT2?
It's a really fun and recognizable enemy.
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Re: SDS 2

Post by TiKi »

HEY HEY I JUST REALIZED

When you enter section #7 for example you could set (22 being level 2-2) "Level22Room" to 7, and either manually transport the player there or put an instant warp at the entrance of the level.
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Kil »

what in god's name are you talking about
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Re: SDS 2

Post by TiKi »

The checkpoints in each room.
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Kil »

idk what checkpoints youre talking about
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swirlybomb
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Re: SDS 2

Post by swirlybomb »

I believe TiKi's referring to being able to replicate SMB2 respawning you in the last room you were in after dying, in SMBX through LunaDLL. If so, that's pretty groovy.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: SDS 2

Post by TiKi »

I realized that it should be the last door, not the last room. My point stands nonetheless
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Kil »

See, I didn't even know that was a mechanic. Anyway yeah that's doable.
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Heraga »

Well have you guys ever thought of a "Lost Levels" type thing? I mean I could see why or why not you would not want to do it...
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Re: SDS 2

Post by S.N.N. »

Ningamer wrote:I mean I could see why or why not you would not want to do it...
pardon
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Heraga »

Well the lost levels is basicly just a remake of Smb1. You could also concider Hard Mode in SDS to be the Lost Levels. Then again, if you guys are going to remake Smb2 in Smbx with the A2XT characters, it would make sense to remake the Lost Levels.
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swirlybomb
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Re: SDS 2

Post by swirlybomb »

Consider Hard Mode and Challenge World to be the equivalent of Lost Levels. Superb Demo Sisters 2 will be based on the US SMB2.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Heraga »

Which is what I said. So how will the level progression work? Like SDS1 or will it be more like it was in Smb2?
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swirlybomb
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Re: SDS 2

Post by swirlybomb »

[spoiler]
Ningamer wrote:Then again, if you guys are going to remake Smb2 in Smbx with the A2XT characters, it would make sense to remake the Lost Levels.
That sounds like the exact opposite of "SDS2 will be SMB2"[/spoiler]


um

Considering that level progression in SMB1 and SMB2 is exactly the same (complete a level, go to the next - warp zones aside), I think you can figure this answer out yourself.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Doctor Shemp
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Doctor Shemp »

I made a document showing when things get introduced in SMB2, like we had for SMB1. It also shows the theme of each world and what each level's boss is (and miniboss(es) when appropriate). https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01iZT ... sp=sharing
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Compound Fraxure »

Doctor Shemp wrote:I made a document showing when things get introduced in SMB2, like we had for SMB1. It also shows the theme of each world and what each level's boss is (and miniboss(es) when appropriate). https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01iZT ... sp=sharing
You forgot to mention the warp in 3-1.
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Their tusks can shatter rocks. Since a broken tusk will not grow back, they diligently sharpen their tusks on river rocks after they've been fighting. Territory battles between [name omitted] can be intensely violent.
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Compound Fraxure wrote:
Doctor Shemp wrote:I made a document showing when things get introduced in SMB2, like we had for SMB1. It also shows the theme of each world and what each level's boss is (and miniboss(es) when appropriate). https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01iZT ... sp=sharing
You forgot to mention the warp in 3-1.
Fixed.
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Re: SDS 2

Post by TiKi »

I think we should can that. I mean, don't Beezos and Pidgits get introduced by 1-2 or 1-3? I think we should just judge the difficulty of enemies and their placement in the meta game ourselves.

* also are we going for Clawgrip instead of Mouser 3? And here's the pack with the SMB2 bosses* in it. Sorry for the wait.
http://rpgmaker.net/engines/smbx/utilities/71/
* yes I know stupid me made Red Birdo's random projectiles replace VEGETABLES but they can easily be made to replace the SMB3 powerups
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Re: SDS 2

Post by WestonSmith »

There are two major issues in deciding when to introduce NPCs ourselves.

(1) Measuring out NPCs allows for a sense of new content even when we don't do anything super original. If we don't force ourselves to measure them out, then we could very well have a situation where players see all enemy types by the end of World 1. Because the game won't be popping out original content ala other collabs, its important to use what we have sparingly.

(2) Who makes the decisions? The problem with a collab is that reaching a concensus is hard to do. When adjusting difficulty and actual sections of a level, its not too bad. But when establishing rules and boundaries, its much easier to defer to an authority outside of ourselves to avoid feelings of "So and So is being a tyrant but his ideas are dumb." (<- Not an actual quote)

Of course, we're going to break SMB2 rules anyways (almost guaranteed), so maybe we should consider adjusting where enemies first appear. I haven't really given it much thought (nor anything to do with SDS2 at this point).
Heraga
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Heraga »

Assuming that you guys follow Smb2's style, that woukd mean 21 levels as Smb2 does not have an extra world/Hard mode.

But that balences the LunaDLL stuff so yeah, I'm willing to make a level for SDS2.
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swirlybomb
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Re: SDS 2

Post by swirlybomb »

Thanks Shemp and Tiki, that's very handy!

I think/agree that we should space out the 'introductions' of everything more than SMB2 did. 1-1 for example more or less introduced all of the 'special' items (POW block, bomb, shell, etc) in one area just so you can see what each of them does, but we don't have to show them all at once like that. Don't know how exactly we could 'decide' where thing specifically get introduced, but... I figure if someone just makes up a list of possibilities, we could 'agree' on that or tweak it slightly or something.


Since it seems like discussion on this is re-starting, I just want to reiterate some probably-important considerations I mentioned earlier:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=14777#p226768
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=14777&start=25#p227267
swirlybomb wrote:-Mario 2 has pretty 'long' levels, with 'checkpoints' at every door/screen transition
-Coins being used for slot machines and Cherries being used to get stars, as well as defeating enemies to get hearts
-1-ups actually in levels are extremely rare and are mostly gained from the slot machines
-Demo/Iris don't have health like raocow/Kood(/Sheath) do, and there are no powerups
-Health increases/mushrooms being found in Subspace and only lasting until the next level
-Subspace in general; one idea is that every level has 'subspace' versions of each section and the 'subspace' areas have impassable walls here and there to keep you stuck in the area you used the potion, but they'd have to be done in such a way that you never warp into a wall...
swirlybomb wrote:There's also the matter of character selection to consider. The NES SMB2 let you choose your character before each level, but you were 'stuck' as that character until you beat the level or game over'd, while the SNES version let you re-select after dying if you so desired. Meanwhile, in Doki Doki Panic you chose your character and then stuck with them until beating at least a world (or game over-ing), but each character functioned as a separate 'file' and saved progress separately. Also, to get the full ending you needed to beat the game with all four characters, but that's [probably?] not a thing we should imitate.

I think 'choose character at the start of each level' could work by having an identical section in each level of a 'character select' room before the actual level starts? Allowing the player to change characters after death would probably be tricky... Not sure about making the player choose a character before 'starting' the game and making them stick with just that character; obviously it'd be the 'easy' option, but I don't think it'd have the same 'feel' as SMB2. Or something else, of course.

Another quick thought is that apparently Doki Doki Panic's story goes that... well, okay there's an in-game scene where two kids get pulled into a book and then the family of the 4 playable characters jump in to go save them; but apparently what happened was that the kids accidentally ripped out the last page(s) of the book where Wart was defeated (meaning that he wasn't defeated), and that/those missing page(s) is why world 7 only has 2 stages instead of 3 like the rest of the worlds; Mario 2 didn't have a reason, it just 'was'. So despite that probably-confusing explanation, it might be worth considering whether there should be some kind of 'justification' for world 7 being one stage short, or we just do it because Mario 2 did it, or if world 7 should be longer instead. I'm saying words.
Also we'd have to decide on music at some point:
swirlybomb wrote:Music considerations... I listened to A2MBXT's soundtrack twice over, and here's my best thoughts on what might fit for options;
Overworld:
- smb2-overworld
- mariorpg-tadpolepond
Underground:
- ssbb-underground
Mario 2 only had those two level themes (plus boss theme/Wart), but we might opt to mix it up a bit like we initially did for Night levels (later for Snow levels instead)?
Desert (worlds 2 & 6):
- smb3-world2
Snow (world 4):
- mario64-snowmountain
- smb3-sky
- smb3-world6
Castle/Dungeon (for the 3rd stages of each world, as an alternative to using the underground theme):
- mario64-castle
- smb3-castle
- smw-castle
- smb2-underground (final castle option?)

Boss/Final boss possibilities:
- smb2-boss
- smb2-wart
- smw-boss
- smb3-boss
- mario64-boss
- sf-corneria

Character selection:
mariorpg-rosetown
Subspace?:
sm64-desert
smb-overworld
I dunno, those are just my thoughts. If anyone wants to give their own opinions, please feel free.
One thing that came to mind is that we could possibly try and keep SDS2's music 'unique' by not using anything that we used in SDS1 or might use in 3 (besides Subspace, since that used Mario 1's music), but that's just my own idea and I don't know what anyone else would think of it.
I think we'll need 'ASMT'-type graphics for some enemies and things as well, like Pansers or Triclyde or Clawgrip or... whatever.

Just putting stuff out there!

Proposal for SDS3: Give the worlds the same names that raocow's using for his SDS videos :v

anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Heraga
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Heraga »

Well here is another question: Howabout after SDS2 or 3 is done, why not try to recreate Smw in A2xt? Then again that could be stupid as we can just hack Smw...
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Whimsical Calamari
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Re: SDS 2

Post by Whimsical Calamari »

One step at a time, dude. We can only do so much at once, and getting ahead of ourselves by thinking more than 1 game further in the future like that tends to lead to A2MT-like disaster.
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