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SDS 2

Kil
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SDS 2

Postby Kil » 5 years ago

So was someone planning on organizing this after SDS? I'm wondering what lunadll codes could help create the Mario 2/USA experience. I'll try and add them to the next version.
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Clamestarebla
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Clamestarebla » 5 years ago

The main thing I see that could cause problems are the player select screen and the slot machine game (if we want to do that). Of course, we could use a manual player select screen but I think it'd be neater if it used a cursor.
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Doctor Shemp » 5 years ago

The biggest obstacle is that many of the SMB2 enemies aren't in SMBX. We'd need to work out how best to approximate them with other NPCs, NPC flags, and maybe LunaDLL codes. And then we'd need new graphics for them.

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Re: SDS 2

Postby Clamestarebla » 5 years ago

Doctor Shemp wrote:The biggest obstacle is that many of the SMB2 enemies aren't in SMBX. We'd need to work out how best to approximate them with other NPCs, NPC flags, and maybe LunaDLL codes. And then we'd need new graphics for them.
Here's a list of all the enemies in SMB2:
Already in SMBX
Need NPC Flag Modifications
Need to be implemented
Ninji
Shy Guy
Tweeter
Snifit (blue and red)
Snifit Gray

Beezo
Hoopster
Trooter
Flurry
Bob-omb
Albatoss
Pidget
Cobrat
Pokey
Phanto
Porcupo
Spark
Panser
Ostro
Autobomb
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Kil
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Kil » 5 years ago

I think it's already possible to recreate the player select just using OnInput. Whenever the day comes I can explain in more detail. I'm not sure about the slot machine but I feel like that's also possible since you can scan the coin variable and roll random numbers. Not sure about the logistics off the top of my head though.

The only NPC out of that list I think you could easily make in lunadll is phanto, because it has no interactions with anything except the player and is basically just a tile that moves towards you.
Last edited by Kil on 30 Jun 2014, 14:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Clamestarebla
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Clamestarebla » 5 years ago

Pidget is going to be the hardest to make I think because you have to make him swoop down and if you pick him up you need to have his carpet stay still, then have the carpet be controlled by the player.
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Clamestarebla » 5 years ago

I did a thing.
Before:
sm2.jpg
sm2.jpg (36.06 KiB) Viewed 7083 times
After:
sds2.jpg
sds2.jpg (115 KiB) Viewed 7083 times
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Kil
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Kil » 5 years ago

sw33t

also since we'll probably be lacking several functional sprites, maybe a different stuff introduction curve could be used. Like instead of level X introducing sprite Y (which is not available) it could introduce something in the same theme, like egg shooters.
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WestonSmith
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Re: SDS 2

Postby WestonSmith » 5 years ago

List of things that will require work/proxies/compromise/acceptance:

1) Missing/Different NPCs
2) Demo and Iris don't use the same health system as SMB2
3) Kood and Rao start with 3 health, health cannot be increased
4) Potion doors (I know SMBX includes them, but my understanding is that they work significantly different then in SMB2)
5) Cherries/Coins (seperate variables that have seperate effects)
6) Slot Machine
7) Phanto reacting to the key
8) The level exits (though this should be fairly simple)
9) Character select (a reasonable replacement should be easy)
10) No "super jump"
11) Iris lacks Flutter Jump

Certainly will be harder to imitate then SMB1 and probably harder to imitate then SMB3, but a reasonable homage should be doable.

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Re: SDS 2

Postby Kil » 5 years ago

1) I can probably program a perfect phanto replica but that's it
3) What's the health increase mechanic again? I don't remember
4) From what I've heard the potion thing is incredibly buggy in smbx so maybe it should be avoided
5) I don't remember the difference honestly
6) ezpz
7) Should be easy enough
10) Don't think I can do anything about super jump
11) Actually I think it'll be possible to recreate the Luigi flutter jump physics
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Clamestarebla » 5 years ago

Can you like, copy how an npc behaves and paste it to another npc? Because Ostros can just be modified tweeters. I just looked again at the enemy list and I think those are those are the npc modifications needed:
Beezo: Grab-able Bullet Bill that is solid for the player
Trooter: Solid Podoboo
Flurry: Hurtful Bully
Albatoss: 2-wide solid Bullet Bill
Cobrat: 2-high Monty Mole
Porcupo: Resprited Spiny
Autobomb: 2-wide Mega Mole

If I recall correctly, there are 3 types of Panzers:
Red Panzers: Stand Still and shoot at angles and straight up
Green Panzers: Move around and shoot at angles and straight up
Blue Panzers: Stand Still and shoot straight up
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Clamestarebla » 5 years ago

1) See Previous Post
2) Can't you change that?
4) Duplicate section -> Replace block with -> Add npcs -> bingo
5) Don't cherries behave like they did in SMB2?
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Kil
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Kil » 5 years ago

Clemasterable wrote:Can you like, copy how an npc behaves and paste it to another npc?
I wish. I don't think I can do anything that can't be achieved with NPCcodes. The stuff in the NPCcodes are the only modular interactions that were ever programmed into the game. Everything else is hardcoded behavior for each sprite. I was hoping you guys could get most of them to work with reskinning and NPCcode magic.
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Clamestarebla » 5 years ago

Kil wrote:
Clemasterable wrote:Can you like, copy how an npc behaves and paste it to another npc?
I wish. I don't think I can do anything that can't be achieved with NPCcodes. The stuff in the NPCcodes are the only modular interactions that were ever programmed into the game. Everything else is hardcoded behavior for each sprite. I was hoping you guys could get most of them to work with reskinning and NPCcode magic.
I'll try to see if I can find a replacement for Ostros then.

Edit: Found it; accelerated, solid, grab-able, 2x2, resprited SMW para-goombas.
Last edited by Clamestarebla on 30 Jun 2014, 23:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 5 years ago

I look foward to SDS 3 more than this. I was just never a fan of the gameplay.

The slot machine can be replaced by something else entirely.

Do we have a library of lunadll tricks and files?

I'm surprise kill said that the jump can't be done. I thought anything could be done with the player. It would be a sudden increase in Y speed, like the Dra's castle in SMBX, only done with with lunaDLL.
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Kil » 5 years ago

Well that's the easy part. The hard part is charging it and causing the upward boost at the right time
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Re: SDS 2

Postby darkychao » 5 years ago

Kil wrote:10) Don't think I can do anything about super jump
Would it be possible to spawn a vine launcher or something just above the player after ducking for long enough?
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Mabel » 5 years ago

Kil wrote: 3) What's the health increase mechanic again? I don't remember
It's in that code I posted in the lunadll help thread.
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Re: SDS 2

Postby SAJewers » 5 years ago

Clemasterable wrote:Can you like, copy how an npc behaves and paste it to another npc? Because Ostros can just be modified tweeters. I just looked again at the enemy list and I think those are those are the npc modifications needed:
Beezo: Grab-able Bullet Bill that is solid for the player
Trooter: Solid Podoboo
Flurry: Hurtful Bully
Albatoss: 2-wide solid Bullet Bill
Cobrat: 2-high Monty Mole
Porcupo: Resprited Spiny
Autobomb: 2-wide Mega Mole

If I recall correctly, there are 3 types of Panzers:
Red Panzers: Stand Still and shoot at angles and straight up
Green Panzers: Move around and shoot at angles and straight up
Blue Panzers: Stand Still and shoot straight up
Beezo and Albatoss should both be doable using both Rippers (In the A2XT Base Game, the Geenie and green fish)
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Septentrion Pleiades
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Septentrion Pleiades » 5 years ago

darkychao wrote:
Kil wrote:10) Don't think I can do anything about super jump
Would it be possible to spawn a vine launcher or something just above the player after ducking for long enough?
Timing problem, I guess, not an execution problem.

LunaDLL would have to count frames where the player's X speed is zero and the down button is pressed(assuming no moving layers).
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Kil
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Kil » 5 years ago

Thinking about it more, maybe the super jump is possible. The weird part is gonna be how to make it work for all 4 characters in a balanced way.
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Re: SDS 2

Postby swirlybomb » 5 years ago

Clemasterable wrote:I did a thing.
Before:
sm2.jpg
After:
sds2.jpg
Looks a bit... fuzzy and stuff. Why not use the SNES version like with SDS1?



S-shouldn't we finish and release the first game before seriously talking sequels?

Just putting it out there: SDS 2 would most likely be the hardest of the three to make, in terms of replicating the original game. Besides what Weston/others listed, there's also:
-Mario 2 has pretty 'long' levels, with 'checkpoints' at every door/screen transition
-Coins being used for slot machines and Cherries being used to get stars, as well as defeating enemies to get hearts
-1-ups actually in levels are extremely rare and are mostly gained from the slot machines
-Demo/Iris don't have health like raocow/Kood(/Sheath) do, and there are no powerups
-Health increases/mushrooms being found in Subspace and only lasting until the next level
-Subspace in general; one idea is that every level has 'subspace' versions of each section and the 'subspace' areas have impassable walls here and there to keep you stuck in the area you used the potion, but they'd have to be done in such a way that you never warp into a wall...
-probably other stuff too
So I think we'd need to figure out what we can reasonably imitate, and what we're willing to change/work around.

Another thing is bosses; SMBX only has Birdo, Mouser, and Wart, leaving out Triclyde, Fryguy, and Clawgrip. Triclyde could perhaps be a reskinned/modified SMB1 Bowser/Bananasnake King...? Birdo is also eggs-only with no fireball variants, but I think that could be done with changing eggs to fireballs on a per-level basis (which means only Pink/Green versions and no Red ones, I think).
For enemies, Albatosses could be Rippers (Metroid croissant bugs) and Panzers could be reskinned/modified Hammer Bros? That'd mean no 'chase the player' or 'shoot fireballs straight up' versions of Panzers (actually, could the latter be done somehow?), but I think it'd be a reasonable option.

Although, making reskinning/making new graphics for enemies would be technically counter-productive to Superb Demo Sisters' original motive (using the 'vanilla' A2MBXT resources because everyone was using custom stuff), wouldn't it...?


Got more to discuss but I'll say it next time.
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Whimsical Calamari » 5 years ago

Hey there just popping in
swirlybomb wrote: S-shouldn't we finish and release the first game before seriously talking sequels?
Yes. Yes that should happen. That said,
swirlybomb wrote: -Subspace in general; one idea is that every level has 'subspace' versions of each section and the subspace' areas have impassable walls here and there to keep you stuck in the area you used the potion, but they'd have to be done in such a way that you never warp into a wall..."
First of all, Subspace could have a layer with invisible axes covering every ground surface an invisible axe, attached to each warp door NPC, that triggers an event and disappears on contact (though that leads into NPC cap territory, I know). Now, since I'm not at all familiar with Lunadll, I don't know if this is possible, but maybe said event could lock the screen, using the "Use Current" screen position, with the position being dynamically entered based on the player position?
Last edited by Whimsical Calamari on 04 Jul 2014, 16:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Kil
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Kil » 5 years ago

swirlybomb wrote: S-shouldn't we finish and release the first game before seriously talking sequels?
I should test all the lunadll that might be needed and not at the last minute, so no.
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Re: SDS 2

Postby Kshaard » 5 years ago

Thing about Talkhaus sequels - they tend to get stuck in development hell. A2MT? Broke. A2MBXT? Still not done after I don't know how long - probably a lot more than a year. SDS 2? Possibly doomed to go the same way.

I don't want to sound defeatist or anything, but... yeah.
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