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Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

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swirlybomb
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

In theory I could try to draw Luna, but I struggle with human faces... and that wouldn't give you a sprite. I don't think any of the pixel guys we have here would be upset if you were to ask them (if you don't know who to ask, send out a mass PM to all of them and say that just one person is needed?)
WestonSmith wrote:I've been quiet recently as a result of not having free time, but just wanted to clarifiy that 99% of the author room was the work of Clemasterable, who I handed it off to.
Oh right, because "Clem's patience after making this room" is one of the graves at the end. Silly me.

I'll look at world 9 again soon, I guess.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

swirlybomb wrote:In theory I could try to draw Luna, but I struggle with human faces... and that wouldn't give you a sprite. I don't think any of the pixel guys we have here would be upset if you were to ask them (if you don't know who to ask, send out a mass PM to all of them and say that just one person is needed?)
WestonSmith wrote:I've been quiet recently as a result of not having free time, but just wanted to clarifiy that 99% of the author room was the work of Clemasterable, who I handed it off to.
Oh right, because "Clem's patience after making this room" is one of the graves at the end. Silly me.

I'll look at world 9 again soon, I guess.
It's fine. I have a backup idea if no one takes up the offer also a guy said he would try it in PM.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by pholtos »

So... so uhh... what's left to do?
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

probably hard mode
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Doctor Shemp »

From my knowledge, it's all of the following: making Hard Mode, testing Hard Mode, fixing up Challenge World, implementing the Credits I made, fixing up the avatar room, and possibly redoing the manual I made to be less serious.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Clamestarebla »

Doctor Shemp wrote:redoing the manual I made to be less serious.
I'll take care of that, if you don't mind that is.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Sure, if you want to. I think the Enemies section and the Purpose of the Game section (or whatever it's called, the one with the backstory in it) are fine as they are. It's just the rest of it that should be changed. So if you could match the tone of those two, that would be great.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Weston, how's Hard Mode progressing? Do you need any help with it?
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

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Slooooooooowly. I'm currently in the process of studying alongside working 7 days a week. My free time is nil. I'll post something ASAP, but it will probably just be the first half of hard mode.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by WestonSmith »

For anyone curious, exams done and free time is coming back for the next month. Currently working on connecting the first four worlds of Hard Mode. Will update ASAP.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

hiiiiiiiiii

Terribly sorry about my absence. When I had some free time recently, I did some 'fixing up' of several levels to try and get this thing heading towards completion zone whilst Weston has also been busy.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/147 ... Sedits.rar
2-1: I added in 'safety blocks' around the vine in cloud heaven like I had done in my level 9-7, but then when I looked at 3-1 and 5-1, I realized that they already had proper/fixed safety blocks, so I imagine 2-1 did too before I touched anything. Just including it "just in case".

3-1: Removed Weston's invisible floor in cloud heaven in favor of warps sending you back to the normal level when you fall, for proper authenticity/less immersion-breaking.

4-2: Rearranged the warp zones to be a mixture of Weston's and Fraxure's versions to make what I thought was the 'ideal' version, and put safety blocks around vines. The world-7 warp path is also less annoying by virtue of having more space to move in.

7-4: Through the magic of that PGEwhatever editor (in the A2MBXT forum), I turned 7-4 from a single straight level into a randomly-determined layout that changes whenever the level is restarted (there are 4 possible layouts). The only thing preventing it from being 100% seamless is the background not lining up when jumping to a new section, which I'd have no idea how to fix...

9-2: Changed areas where it was possible/easy to make the level unwinnable, and made some spots that I felt were unfair easier. Also made the 1-up actually possible to get/not in the way if your jump path.

9-3: Cut down the number of Polyps because they kinda completely overwhelm the player and some are placed in the worst possible spots where they're virtually unavoidable. The level should be actually possible now.

9-7: Made it more easier and added a second super-shortcut that jumps through the entire level. Still open to making changes if necessary.

9-8: Fixed the 'hide Spawned NPCs' events at the end (I think it was set to hide on Bowser death but not on axe grab, or maybe the other way around), changed portions that seemed like haphazard design (Paragoopas occupying the same horizontal space, or being positioned such that they hit a block and turn around, thus not posing a threat, and other minor tweaks), and made the 'Bowser fireballs' of the level yellow instead of green to indicate that they're different (as Sheath can't kill them), but also to make them 'special' since it's the final challenge level.

Hub: Swapped Kood's and Sheath's rooms such that Kood is unlocked after 2 leeks and Sheath after 3, but this is just because I think it makes more sense to unlock them in that order and if others disagree with me, it doesn't need to be changed that way. I also 'correctly' set the warp to Hard Mode to actually go to the 1-1 intro instead of crashing; if all the Hard levels are going to remain in the 'HARD' folder, then the 'warp to level' warps for all the levels/intros need to say "HARD/H1-1.lvl" (and so on). I just realized that I should've fixed the author plaques too, but I forgot :I
Whether you take these or leave them is up to you, I suppose!

Something I spotted during last-minute testing is that 9-5's "automatic walk to the pipe" event doesn't work if you die; I assume it's set to 'Level Start' rather than being specifically triggered like all other underground/water levels. Also, 9-2 doesn't have a wall past the goal flag to prevent Sheath from flying past the level end. I'm pretty sure that the entire 'main game' has the safety wall, but checking the challenge world levels would be a good idea just in case.


Regarding the ending and credits and stuff, since it hasn't been addressed yet:
When will the credits play? After completing the main game? hard mode? challenge world? Or will it be a door in the Hub that requires 3 leeks (and thus, total completion) to enter?
What about the ending? Will there be one? The 'main game' ends with Calleoca saying that "she hid Demo's stuff in [POST-GAME INTENSIFIES]" (paraphrased), which isn't an actual ending, although I think it 'works' if the 'actual ending' will come after beating Hard Mode/Challenge World/both. Personally I would think putting the 'real ending' at the end of Hard Mode seems like the best idea; it doesn't have to be anything amazing, just something that kinda wraps it up somehow. For extra credit, there could be different scenes for each of the secret characters too (using character-only blocks to enter warps leading to their specific scenes), but it's understandable if that's deemed unnecessary.

That's just my thoughts, but no one else has said anything and it kind of needs to be determined if this is going to get released.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Do I need to be testing 7-4 in PGE or in the actual game (i.e. not in the normal editor) for it to work? Because I've tested it in the editor several times now and it gives me the same layout.

The rest of the changes seem fine.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

Can you actually play levels in the PGE thing? I was not aware. (I was just using it to mass-move and copy/paste to different sections and stuff)

Playing it in the SMBX level editor works just fine for me, but due to its 'random' nature, it is totally possible for it to choose the same layout multiple times in a row. Just keep trying, perhaps?
I would say that it's possible I uploaded the wrong file, but judging by my files, I don't believe that's the case. If it's exactly the same as cheez8's original version, however, then it's not correct.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Doctor Shemp »

I only used PGE once a while back so I have no idea. It was just a guess. To clarify before I test again, do you mean that the level is randomly generated at startup or that you go to a random section every time the background jitters? Furthermore, if it's the first option, is the start always the same? Because I only tested past the start once as I assumed that everything was random.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

Okay, I suppose it would be helpful to explain the whole thing:

I split the level up into six sections; the start (two falling platforms over lava, a powerup, and a firebar), the end (Bowser, of course), and four intermediate sections, with the 'separation' points being the fall through the narrow tunnel after a big firebar (and yes, that's where the background jitters too). Those four sections are set up in four different configurations that each use three of said sections. Whenever the level starts, a Furba-death-event determines which configuration will appear for that attempt. So the start and end are always the same, but the whole middle portion is randomly chosen.

Hope that helps!
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by cheez8 »

swirlybomb wrote:
7-4: Through the magic of that PGEwhatever editor (in the A2MBXT forum), I turned 7-4 from a single straight level into a randomly-determined layout that changes whenever the level is restarted (there are 4 possible layouts). The only thing preventing it from being 100% seamless is the background not lining up when jumping to a new section, which I'd have no idea how to fix...
Oh! Well, erm, thank you, and I'm sorry about being too clueless/lazy/so many other words to actually manage this myself like I was asked to. The section shuffle functions perfectly for me, by the way, and I think it's really kind of amazing, seeing this idea suddenly take form!

If it helps, I think the way I tackled the background issue was by making each segment a specific, uniform length (probably about as long as it takes for the background to finish exactly one loop), then adjusting the left border of each section such that the background was always in the same place relative to those narrow separation points.

...What probably messed things up was the fake-out separation point I made. Originally, back when this was going to be a maze-type level, I put an extra one there to kind of confuse the player into falsely thinking they succeeded on their first try for that section, and then falsely thinking they failed on their first successful try. Well, and also to kind of slightly extend things so the background would line up properly. You know that really short section, the one that's just two sets of rising platforms? That's actually part of the previous section.

...I know I haven't been very good at doing anything about this so far, but I did actually start making some more sections before I ran out of creativity a while back. If the background really bugs you, then we might be able to fix it without too much trouble. I could send you a file with another uniform-length segment, then if you could maybe somehow copy/paste the section into the existing level you could do... something (I don't really know how you did what you did yet) and easily combine the two in the original that got separated, and still have four sections. Or do something else, or even just leave it. Personally, I think what you've managed to make here is already pretty cool, and I don't want to trouble you with something you don't want to do. It's up to you at this point.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

Ah, I should've figured you did it through identical-length sections.

Of course I can shuffle around the level if you'd like to add to it; I split it up the way I did in order to try and reduce the length of the level. The level itself doesn't even have to have four of the 'random' sections, just four different 'sets' (if there were more sections, then there'd be different sets of three and split up the use of each of the sections a little more, but there might be more to 'learn' in order to get through the level as well).

Short version: if you want to include other sections you've made, then those could be added, and if you want to change the sections so that their lengths line up better (though remember there's still the beginning and ending sections to consider, which may make it too difficult to do consistently?), be my guest.
(somehow that was not much shorter than the 'long' version)


In other news, here's an updated Hub to fix up the grammar issues and stuff in the avatar room: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/147 ... SDShub.rar
I also took the liberty of moving the off-center avatars and plaques into the center of their pedestals and removing the 'symmetry' plaques (but they still exist in section 5 if it's a better 'joke' to keep them instead), as well as adding Kil's avatar and quote (but I don't have a 'scientific name' for him). Still need quotes from:
-Aterraformer
-Pholtos
-Zyglrox Odyssey (needs an avatar as well)
-Holy

Also, this version of the Hub retains my previous swapping of Kood's and Sheath's rooms; if you want to change it back so that Sheath is unlocked second and Kood last, it only takes a minute or so to swap the positions of their doors and character-change blocks (just the door graphics and blocks, not the actual warps).

At this time I haven't thought of a 'solution' for 0-1 yet, regarding both its design and how to access it. ?????
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by WestonSmith »

Oh mans. Look at swirly go.

So things!

1) I used most of swirlys changes (awesome job on 7-4 by the way)
2) I already have an updated HUB, but I'll probably take your fixes into account
3) The HARD levels will not be in a seperate folder come finishing time, its just that way so its easier while updating them
4) I think the credits should come post main game...
5) I'm all ears for 0-1 ideas.
6) I figured Kood should be unlocked last since his floating breaks the game
7) I went ahead and made up my own quotes for those missing quotes in the author room, just to speed things along

Now, as for HARD mode

1) I've updated and linked all the levels, but...
2) It really isn't any harder. Like, barely at all.
3) Do we want to leave it as is, or make additional layout changes to the HARD levels?

Right now, I'd call the game essentially done, short of making HARD mode actually difficult and making a proper 0-1. It's really just a matter of plugging some stars into 8-4, Special-8, and Hard8-4, then linking everything to the HUB.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Mabel »

WestonSmith wrote:Oh mans. Look at swirly go.

So things!

1) I used most of swirlys changes (awesome job on 7-4 by the way)
2) I already have an updated HUB, but I'll probably take your fixes into account
3) The HARD levels will not be in a seperate folder come finishing time, its just that way so its easier while updating them
4) I think the credits should come post main game...
5) I'm all ears for 0-1 ideas.
6) I figured Kood should be unlocked last since his floating breaks the game
7) I went ahead and made up my own quotes for those missing quotes in the author room, just to speed things along

Now, as for HARD mode

1) I've updated and linked all the levels, but...
2) It really isn't any harder. Like, barely at all.
3) Do we want to leave it as is, or make additional layout changes to the HARD levels?

Right now, I'd call the game essentially done, short of making HARD mode actually difficult and making a proper 0-1. It's really just a matter of plugging some stars into 8-4, Special-8, and Hard8-4, then linking everything to the HUB.
im still down for using drastic changes to stages for their HARD versions if you need some actual difficulty, If its fine im going to make some more changed to my last unchanged levels and use those for Hard mode(and maybe do the same for any hard mode level you havent done yet because boerd) some new things in lunadll might help with making an actual 7-4 maze thingy that can be used in hard more
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by WestonSmith »

I'll try and post the current HARD mode later today. Then others can download and make changes as necessary.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by WestonSmith »

HARD MODE LEVEL PACK

NOTE: This is just the levels from hard mode, not the entire game.

To avoid issues with unfair challenges, I suggest any changes made be limited to:

1) Enemy placement (additional enemies or swapping enemies)
2) Minor layout changes (moving the edge of a jump, the number of tiles, etc.)

This would avoid the need for extensive testing.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by WestonSmith »

Becuase theres nothing like a good triple post...

Hard Mode Extra Challenging Edition Demo or Something

So I messed around with the first five worlds. Notably, World 1 and World 3 got the most extensive changes. I think some levels work, others not so much (my 2-2 is complete garbage). The point is, I think a HARD mode similar to the above could work. We would just need a few of us to work on it.

Thoughts?
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

If you want the credits to come after finishing the normal game, I'm pretty cool with that! I don't really care where specifically they appear, but they do need to appear somewhere, is the thing. Calleoca should perhaps get some changed dialog to make it a bit more of an 'ending', perhaps (while still referencing post-game content?).

I flipped through your 'vanilla' version of hard mode and agree that it's not much harder or anything (but weren't the snow levels supposed to be slippery for hard mode? that alone would probably make them more challenging). I'll try to take this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon or sometime to look at your second version and perhaps experiment with making my own changes. Regarding 7-4, I think incorporating cheez8's stuff into the hard-mode version (and leaving the normal-mode version as-is) would make it more interesting.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

I took much longer than I said I would, surprising no one. :I

Weston's second version of Hard Mode is definitely more challenging, but I thought there were spots here and there that fit a little into the 'unfair' zone (where it seems especially difficult to get past an obstacle unscathed). Still, just those areas could be changed up and the whole thing could still be good.

Probably not what I should have been doing, but I took some time trying out 'my own version' of Hard Mode (only the first three worlds), incorporating some of Weston's changes as well as my own... Besides enemy and layout changes, I also reduced the overall number of power-ups, coins, and 1-ups given out (especially levels with 'free' power-ups right at the beginning, which are moved to be later on in the level), and altered the entrances/exits of bonus areas and stuff. World 3 also has slippery ground (I considered making 3-3 slippery as well (could theoretically be simple to change the green 'treetops' to white), but that seemed like a bit much so I didn't). Another thing I did was changing/adding more background objects and making the background objects around the end-of-level/beginning-of-level castles identical for adjacent levels to add a sense of 'continuity', but that's just visual stuff that doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot (just something that came to mind to make Hard Mode a little more 'interesting' visually). Anyone else want to give it a try, perhaps...?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/147 ... DShard.rar

Although I didn't touch 2-2 (besides the beginning/end details) because I kinda have no idea how to design a water level, so it's just the vanilla version with faster enemies (as opposed to Weston's)...


The thing is though, I'd hate to keep delaying the game further by trying to take things in a 'different' direction, so I dunno...!?
As a bonus, here's a slightly-modified normal-mode 3-3 to change the second pair of pulley platforms: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/147 ... %203-3.lvl
Although Weston said previously that it's fine and there's an additional 'safety' falling platform nearby/below (there actually wasn't), I still really feel that having the first pulley platform being lower than the second and the second being only BARELY reachable is just plain bad design. So take it if you will, or don't I guess.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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