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Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

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swirlybomb
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

Pholtos: I can't say whether it's "improved" (that would be a bit conceited, I think...), but it's certainly "different".

Mabel: I was planning to bring those 'cut' sections in too. Did you happen to make any actual changes to hard-mode 8-4 yourself? If so, it would be handy to see what you did.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Mabel »

I havent gotten around to it sadly, but you seem to be doing pretty good so ill let you go at it...

heres the build I wanted to use if you wanna build off of it.
http://puu.sh/c0ynj/2936f596da.rar
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Slit08 »

I tested a bit of world 9:

9-3:
]Too hard in my oppinion. It forces you to jump on very, very small spaces. The green enemies stranded on the ground cover way too much ground on the platforms and lead to almost impossible jumps. Make all of these platforms bigger so that there's a bit more safe room to land on.
The section with the two Banana Snakes throwing down projectiles from above is way too demanding. Just remove them. Finally the Bullet Bill jump near the end is absolutely awful. A Bullet jump has never been required outside of SMW, so it shouldn't be here. Event he Lost Levels didn't have this insanity.
9-4:
Way, way, WAY too demanding. First of all it has ice physics... they are not necessary at all for this stage. I want full control of my character, especially considering all the stuff this stage throws at me.
Get rid of the Lakitu on the outside map. That's way too spammy.
I would definately delete the cannon before the entrance to the underground area as there are the Piranha Plants to deal with.
I would get rid of the Polyp on the last bit and increase the size of the three platforms before the flagpole by 1 tile so that there's more space to jump on.
9-5:
This one is way better designed in terms of difficulty. The only thing I would change here is reducing the amount of fish a bit and also remove the firebars. Other than that it's great. Good work!!
9-6:
Very well designed. Interesting gimmick as well. Just get rid of the Koopa jumps in this stage, especially right before the flagpole and it's great and fitting for world 9 difficulty wise.
9-7:
Too easy and a bit too long. I think the level should end where the fake flagpole has been and instead have a few more pits or enemies thrown in.
9-8:
Way too hard. While I like the idea with the firebars I think it's a bit extreme. Here's my suggstions:
The pit with three grey blocks all having firebars is too much for the player. Only keep having the middle block with firebars.
Delete the long row of firebars hanging from the ceiling over the avapit and replace it with a 1 tile jump instead.
Delete the fireballs circling around the two 1 tile platforms over the lava.
Replace the huge waves of fireballs right before the final boss with normal fireballs (single fireball shots).
Overall I think that world 9 is way too hard, even if it's challenge world.
I hope I wasn't too harsh but as I said it's just taking difficulty to an extreme. I doubt anyone can beat most of these levels (aside from 9-7 which I consider a bit too easy).
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

Did someone remake 9-6 already? I wanna play it.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Leet »

Overall I think that world 9 is way too hard, even if it's challenge world.
I hope I wasn't too harsh but as I said it's just taking difficulty to an extreme. I doubt anyone can beat most of these levels (aside from 9-7 which I consider a bit too easy).
dangit now i really wanna try them to prove their beatability

but im trying to avoid playing the game until it comes out

mnargh
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Slit08 wrote:I doubt anyone can beat most of these levels (aside from 9-7 which I consider a bit too easy).
I'm pretty sure that's the idea. When Perfect Dark came out Rare said that they estimated only about 1% of people who played the game would be able to complete it on the hardest difficulty. I think that's what's being aimed for here: something extremely difficult, so that beating it is a true accomplishment.

Also I think you're underestimating just how good some people are: 8flight (who is a statistical outlier, I know) beat the whole of Challenge World with about 5 deaths total.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

Watching those videos, I had a thought. Anyone want to put the "World" thing on the HUD using lunadll? Like WORLD 1-1, 1-2, etc, like in the original SMB. There's a big empty space in the top right for it (if no one is using a timer). It should be really easy to do.

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To do it, someone just has to paste this into the lunadll.txt for each level
ShowText,0,620,29,3,0,WORLD
ShowText,0,640,51,3,0,1-1
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

HUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRGGGGGG

it's done

I'm a foolish idiot and should never try to take on something this big again.

but first:

Slit08:
Based on your comments of 9-3 (specifically the jellyfish resting on the platforms), it sounds like you're playing an old version of world 9. The version I have (I did upload my edits a bit ago, but I don't know how much of it Weston incorporated into the 'final' version) is much more manageable, though still challenging.

And 9-7 is supposed to be long and easy. Each stage in world 9 has some kind of 'theme'/gimmick (I'm not sure if this was intentional but it sure worked out that way!), and I chose the meta-theme of 'defied expectations': so it's easier and longer than you'd expect from the rest of world 9, you keep thinking 'when will it end?' whenever it seems like it should end, and so on... there are also 1-ups and shortcuts hidden all over, so if you find them you can farm up for 9-8/skip to the end relatively quickly and stuff. And considering the length, I ended up making it easier several times, because dying at the end/in the latter half would be a real pain.

...No comments on 9-1 or 9-2 though?
Kil: As far as I know, there have been no changes to 9-6. Although I personally want to suggest moving/removing the first Red Paragoopa guarding the first powerup because getting said powerup is very difficult with him there, but that would probably detract from the 'difficulty'...

If Weston wants to go through all that trouble for the world/stage display, I suppose he can go right ahead.

Shemp:
Just some responses to things that came up in your last video;

- Yes, all the bonus rooms are different in some way
- Lakitus are placed the same as the normal game (two at once would just be silly)
- 4-2: While the 'normal' way to get on top of the level is to kill the Bananasnakes and go up through the ceiling there, it is intentional that you're able to go above them from the previous platform; although the 'intended' way to do that is to hit the invisible block containing the vine leading to world 6 (it's in the blank space between the coins) and jump from there, but evidently Iris can reach it without assistance. But at the same time, there are other opportunities to get up there afterward as well (using the descending elevator platforms or bouncing on the Red Paragoopa right at the end)
- I added bits of snow at the end of levels preceding a snow world/the start of the last levels of a snow world for added 'continuity'
- 5-4's citizen message is an anagram of the usual "Thank you player character etc" message... although at some point I gave up trying to make sense and just stuck in what I could fit
- 6-4's citizen message was the usual "Thank you player character etc" message, except typed while kind of just smashing the keyboard to jumble it up as much as possible

SOOOOO

Sorry about the wait, but this turned out to be more demanding than I would have expected. Here's the entirety of Hard Mode, including changes to worlds 1-6 based on Shemp's videos, and all the pathing/warps are correct and double-checked: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/147 ... 20full.rar
-I suppose it could still use testing (worlds 7 and 8, as well as 2-2, since those obviously didn't get tested yet), but I think it's overall in a good spot...?
-Regarding red/green Spinies/Caterpillars; I left it so that red ones are used throughout, except for 6-1 and 7-4 using green ones like in the normal game just for 'consistency'(?). If those ones in the normal game are going to be changed, then these ones should too.
-Something I included was an "8-5" that's just a short little 'congratulations' thing with the leek at the end. Would like to suggest the same being done for Challenge World (perhaps an "AMAZING!!" ?)...? It feels more 'complete' than just picking up the leek at the end of the level to me.
-I left in a 'zip' at the end of 1-2

(slide under the firebar at the end while big)

because I think a warp to 0-1 could be put there, but I haven't made a 0-1 yet/myself.
-I'm not all that familiar with Calleoca's personality, so her text in 1-1 and 8-4 can be changed if necessary.


...And because I'm a DISGUSTING OVER-ACHIEVER, I also included a version with 'palette swaps' for most of the worlds just to differentiate them further from the normal game: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/147 ... teswap.rar
However, I totally understand if that sort of thing is outside the scope of the project/doesn't fit in. (though if it's not used, Calleoca's text in 8-4 should have the mention of the Red Yoshi/Squishy Rex graphics packs removed)

Additionally, I have a 'gold' palette swap for 9-8 because I think it would be cooler to have something like that at the end of Challenge World: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/147 ... 20gold.rar
Use it if you wish.


BLUH

Sorry for making this project bigger than it really needed to be.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Doctor Shemp »

I'll get around to testing Worlds 7-8 in the next couple of days. I'll also try and mash together a trailer, probably with Rog again. With that being said, assuming everyone is ok with everything, fine with the manual and fine with the credits*, then we can probably establish a firm release date and hype up to that.

*The credits currently copy A2XT's graphics credits section verbatim since I wasn't sure who did what sprite. If anyone knows who did just the SMB1 sprites so I could cut down the list, I can do that, or if there's anyone I missed, let me know.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

swirlybomb wrote: If Weston wants to go through all that trouble for the world/stage display, I suppose he can go right ahead.
Just sayin', I only count 65 folders for the whole game, and with just copy pasting those 2 lines and changing the level number, it'd probably take exactly 5 minutes
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Kil wrote:
swirlybomb wrote: If Weston wants to go through all that trouble for the world/stage display, I suppose he can go right ahead.
Just sayin', I only count 65 folders for the whole game, and with just copy pasting those 2 lines and changing the level number, it'd probably take exactly 5 minutes
Well, if you'd like to do it, no-one's going to revert it.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

Yeah. Actually I'm halfway done already. One question though... should we have some other naming convention for hard world, or just use the same 1-1, 1-2, thing
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

Well here's what swirlybomb just uploaded except with world numbers in the lunadll, and folders with updated lunadll for each normal world. it doesn't contain normal world lvl files since they weren't in swirlybombs thing and mine might be outdated

http://www.gamearchaeology.com/swirlybo ... ldnums.zip
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Zia Satazaki »

"H1-1" etc.?
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

I just left them the same as normal. Someone else can change it to H if they want.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

Almost beat the whole game on my first try but 8-1 was longer than I expected and I can never find 1ups
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

Kil wrote:it doesn't contain normal world lvl files since they weren't in swirlybombs thing and mine might be outdated
That was why I mentioned Weston, since I'm assuming he's the only one with the 'master' version currently...
Kil wrote:Almost beat the whole game on my first try but 8-1 was longer than I expected and I can never find 1ups
The normal game, or hard mode?


Shemp: Just a reminder to test 2-2 and 6-3 in addition to worlds 7 and 8, if you please! And something I didn't mention was that 5-3's 'secret' path leads to a bonus room with a free powerup and 1-up, just like in the normal game. So it's not just a 'shortcut that's not any shorter'. In case you wanted to know.


I realized I accidentally left the 'red' palette for world 8 in the 'regular' version of hard mode! Someone can just delete those blocks/background files if necessary, I suppose?
Additionally I meant to change the text in 1-4 to "your" instead of "our", and this should probably be done for every castle in the normal game too.
anonymousbl00dlust wrote:All the obstacles in my level can be beaten on the players first attempt without any 'future predicting'.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Final (?) Hard Mode Test

  • 8-4 MUST end in a Star Exit, not a Roulette Exit, so that unlockables work and the story makes sense.
  • Only 8-1 is red.
  • Once again, the orbiting fireballs in 8-4 only work sometimes, and Room 2 (in both halves) is easier than the alternatives.
  • 7-1 is harder than any other level until 8-3.
  • 8-3 is harder than 8-4.
  • Are the number of citizens in each castle meant to be equal to the world number? Because that isn't the case for at least 7-4 (can't remember about the others).
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

swirlybomb wrote:
Kil wrote:it doesn't contain normal world lvl files since they weren't in swirlybombs thing and mine might be outdated
That was why I mentioned Weston, since I'm assuming he's the only one with the 'master' version currently...
Kil wrote:Almost beat the whole game on my first try but 8-1 was longer than I expected and I can never find 1ups
The normal game, or hard mode?


Shemp: Just a reminder to test 2-2 and 6-3 in addition to worlds 7 and 8, if you please! And something I didn't mention was that 5-3's 'secret' path leads to a bonus room with a free powerup and 1-up, just like in the normal game. So it's not just a 'shortcut that's not any shorter'. In case you wanted to know.


I realized I accidentally left the 'red' palette for world 8 in the 'regular' version of hard mode! Someone can just delete those blocks/background files if necessary, I suppose?
Additionally I meant to change the text in 1-4 to "your" instead of "our", and this should probably be done for every castle in the normal game too.
I must've been playing a hilariously outdated version of normal because several levels seemed a lot harder than what I saw in shemp's video.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by WestonSmith »

(1) Everyone who has kept this going is seriously awesome
(2) I've compiled what I believe to be the most up to date version of everything into Version Genesis, linked in the opening post
(3) I haven't had a chance to test it out yet, but from what I've seen, Hard Mode is looking pretty awesome
(4) Assuming Hard Mode is/will be done shortly, all thats left on my to do list are linking the credits in proper, deciding on what we want to do with Minus World, and ensuring everything is linked/working proper. Am I missing anything else?

Again, cheers to all the folks here, with big props to Swirly, Kil, and Shemp.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by Kil »

Well, I'm gonna try playing the whole game
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by WestonSmith »

One thing I forgot to look at was the connection in Hard Mode for... I know Foxtrot had it where one of the levels led to the normal mode, not Hard Mode. Did Swirly change that?
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Doctor Shemp »

WestonSmith wrote:One thing I forgot to look at was the connection in Hard Mode for... I know Foxtrot had it where one of the levels led to the normal mode, not Hard Mode. Did Swirly change that?
I think Swirlybomb said he'd gone through and double-checked the links.

So when would be a good time to shoot for for the release date? I can do a trailer up around that.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Foxtrot

Post by swirlybomb »

INCOMING TEXT WALL
PREPARE BATTLESTATIONS

Doctor Shemp wrote:8-4 MUST end in a Star Exit, not a Roulette Exit, so that unlockables work and the story makes sense.
That's the exact purpose of H8-5, but you didn't play it. It's a straight path with CONGRATULATIONS!! written in blocks overhead with a gallery of the game's enemies, ending in a leek. I think it's a better 'reward' than just giving the leek at the end of the castle (plus at this point, we're in the post-game and Demo/Iris technically already got their leek in normal 8-4, I think?).
Doctor Shemp wrote:Are the number of citizens in each castle meant to be equal to the world number? Because that isn't the case for at least 7-4 (can't remember about the others).
Yes. There are 7 citizens in 7-4, but I have no idea why the last two didn't spawn when you played it.
...For that matter, I don't know why cannons kept despawning/not spawning to begin with in 7-1, because as far as I'm aware, SMBX doesn't have sprite limitations...?

The thing about the endgame difficulty is that... I figured that after making it that far, it'd really stink to die at the end of the game, so I eased up on the difficulty somewhat and focused a bit more on just 'changing' levels than making them especially hard (in some cases I probably made it easier than the normal game, like 8-1 in particular). Plus I didn't want to resort to plain enemy spamming just to increase the difficulty. But if it really is 'too easy', then I suppose further changes can be made. 7-1 is probably going to be tougher than the rest anyway just due to the ice physics (though it probably could be toned down a bit anyway, since I made earlier levels that you had difficulty with easier).

For 7-4 though, I'm not particularly concerned with making it hard, since the idea of the level is the random path you take and stuff. It's shorter than the 'normal' version because the sections are a little longer in hard mode, so I only had you go through 2 random sections instead of 3 (though there are 4 total sections in both versions).

I kinda did the same with 8-4 I suppose; just aiming at making the paths "new"/different in some way rather than straight "murder your face" hard... I do suppose some in particular could be harder/longer (like the Lakitu one and the moving platform one), I just didn't want them to be enemy-spammy or drag on longer than they needed to. I 'removed' that cannon-based section for that reason, because I didn't think I could make it any harder without being pure spam...
Though at the same time, I think the difficulty of the different sections also comes down to playstyle too, so chances are one pipe from each set is going to be 'the easiest' for different people.

...By the way, the weird firebar things are done by setting them to 'Don't Move' (for the 'extending' ones that go straight up and down), or to 'Random' direction (for the single fireballs in the underwater bit that move upwards; Mabel 'discovered' this in his/her original version of the level).
Doctor Shemp wrote:Once again, the orbiting fireballs in 8-4 only work sometimes
Looking at it again, I think they can be made more reliable (in both versions) by making the genies (that spawn the fire circles) be set to Don't Move instead of moving (and thus being inconsistent).

The water levels (2-2, 7-2, 9-5) have 'whirlpools' pulling you down over pits like SMB1 (kinda). That's why you were noticing weird momentum and such over pits. This is in the 'normal' game as well.

Kil wrote:I must've been playing a hilariously outdated version of normal because several levels seemed a lot harder than what I saw in shemp's video.
This is entirely possible, but there are definitely sections where I actually made things easier than the main game (8-1 especially)...


And yes, I 'fixed' and double-checked all the level connections for Hard Mode, so everything should be fine.

So some changes could potentially be made to worlds 7/8 I guess? It'd be nice if I could shift that task to someone else, but I suppose I can do it myself if need be... I had 'an idea' for 0-1 but I haven't started making anything yet. Did you already have a plan for how the Credits will appear? The thing is that collecting the leek in 8-4 'ends' the level and sends you back to the Hub, so there needs to either be something there (maybe event foolery like how A2MBXT did things) to lead to the credits first, or perhaps have the credits accessible through another door in the hub?

It looks like you used my 'regular' version of Hard Mode, without the 'palette swaps', but still have the 'red palette' images in H8-1's folder. Should probably either remove those, or use the 'palette swap' version, because it'd be weird to have a different color scheme for exactly one level.

Do you already have a plan in mind for a trailer, Shemp? I'm not sure what it'd be myself, since the whole thing's probably going to look a bit 'samey' (since we're only using SMB1 stuff)...? Just curious.
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Re: Superb Demo Sisters Enters Genesis

Post by Leet »

On sprite limitations in SMBX: I recall a few sprites not spawning during my play of Analog Funk. It's never happened to me before this, though.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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