Trans-mysoginy in the project (post-deletion repost?)

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devil†zukin

Trans-mysoginy in the project (post-deletion repost?)

Post by devil†zukin »

Since the previous thread has been locked, I thought I needed to highlight the following, which are quotes from this thread that highlight Aposke's trans-mysoginy and general transphobia, in which he suggests that trans-women are not women, and refuses to use appropriate pronouns.

I do this only to give people a fair chance to decide whether or not to allow this project to use their likeness, as I know that I, along with various other members of the talkhaus, are now boycotting this project and would not appreciate our likenesses being used by a project with such hateful management.

I suggest that if you do not want your likeness to be used in this project, as no self-respecting individual should, that you make a post to say so in one of the stickies.

To the management of this project, I ask if you really want such negative and hateful behaviour associated with the project.

At this point, Aposke, I personally believe that the only appropriate course of action is a sincere apology to O'Largill, or leaving the project and allowing somebody else to replace you.

Know that this post is not from the official perspective of the talkhaus, but that I am no longer happy about this project being associated with the talkhaus, and do not want it associated with me in any way.

On a final note, I do not want the discussion on gender to continue in this thread, so I am locking it. If you have anything to say relevant to the project, use one of the stickies or make a new thread. Otherwise, I suggest continuing the discussion elsewhere.

Rena
Aposke wrote:He is slash was. He's also a tumblr drama queen. If we were to realistically add him to the game, I'm pretty sure he'd be a male to female transitioning thing and would probably get really annoyed if we don't portray his "gender" correctly.
Aposke wrote: Because you used to be a biological guy and then became a (I'm not sure about this one) mental female?
I mean, as silly as the entire game is, we do kinda take care of at least portraying the characters accurately. And yeah, this was kinda the discussion I was trying to avoid to begin with (although I admit my post was probably not doing a very good job with that).
Aposke wrote: Why exactly can't I argue that? I do realize that personality is the more important factor, but we can't just build a game around the "perfect" personas that people can just fantasize up. A big part of how people are going to be displayed in this game is going to be based on the image that the community has of them – i.e. as they appear outward, to others. Most of that is personality, but of course basic physical traits (like sex, hair color, etc.) play a role in this as well.
This isn't supposed to be a "perfect world" RPG where everyone has full control over how they're displayed. That doesn't mean we'll try to degrade them or display them worse than they are, but the characters definitely will not only be based on what the actual person behind them would like them to be.

(Also, I don't think Horikawa uses the suffix "-phobia" correctly. But that's another matter entirely)
Aposke wrote:Eh, not really.
As much as they want it, transwomen can't really ever become biological women, at least not with current technology. There'll always be that (and more) differences between them that will prevent them from being a sub-group of women.
This is kinda getting way off-topic though, if we're gonna discuss the specifics of gender transitioning now. Maybe we could do that over tumblr or something?
limepie20
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Re: Trans-mysoginy in the project (post-deletion repost?)

Post by limepie20 »

I'll also publicly condemn Aposke for this here. Let's please stop that, buddy.
limepie20
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Re: Trans-mysoginy in the project (post-deletion repost?)

Post by limepie20 »

Aposke wanted me to post this because he's banned. I hope this can bring some closure to the issue.
Aposke wrote:In the hopes to set things right and stop people from hating me for something I never believed in, here's my apology:
In the "I'm okay with being in this game thread", I posted a needlessly polemic comment on O'Largills gender (partly because I didn't know his self-identity, partly because I disagree with a lot of his views) which sparked a convoluted debate that both sides refused to step down from.
During that debate, I wrote "There'll always be that (and more) differences between them that will prevent them from being a sub-group of women.", a statement that I'd like to retract and apologize for. I'd also like to apologize for any other statement that might've offended people.
I did a lot wrong in that thread and was honestly very happy when Grim locked it in an attempt to stop drama coming from it.
However, knowing the Talkhaus, drama cannot be stopped around here. The reason this entire thing blew up so much was pretty much out of my control – that's partly Rena's fault for stirring up the controversy again with her thread where she accused me of statements that I never made or had already retracted, and partly Jesuis' fault for bringing my discussion thread into the gazebo, relabeling it as "Gender discussion" for whatever reason, and consequently spreading the drama further (he also later accused me of editing in my apology in this post viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14404#p186722, which I clearly did not, as this post shows no signs of editing).
I feel like there's an unjust campaign going on that aims to label me as transphobic, when all I did was not agree 100% with some people's view on trans-issues.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I value all humans equally, no matter as what they identify, what their background is, or what they've done. If any of my statements have had a different impression on you, then I apologize, and hope I'll be able to rectify that impression in the future.
devil†zukin

Re: Trans-mysoginy in the project (post-deletion repost?)

Post by devil†zukin »

Hi it's me again.
Aposke wrote:During that debate, I wrote "There'll always be that (and more) differences between them that will prevent them from being a sub-group of women.", a statement that I'd like to retract and apologize for. I'd also like to apologize for any other statement that might've offended people.
I appreciate this.
Aposke wrote:Rena's fault for stirring up the controversy again with her thread where she accused me of statements that I never made or had already retracted
I do, however, not appreciate this, and would like to highlight it. This is about the most dishonest use of the word "or" that I've ever seen. If you're accusing me of doing something dishonest, please do so directly.
Aposke wrote: I feel like there's an unjust campaign going on that aims to label me as transphobic, when all I did was not agree 100% with some people's view on trans-issues.
I also do not appreciate how you are trying to represent yourself as the victim here. I did not intend to, nor did I, as far as I know, attempt to label you as transphobic beyond exposing your own transphobic behaviour. Nor have I seen any other attempt to do so. However, if you feel somebody has done or is doing so, feel free to report this behaviour, as it would appear to break global rule 3.

I also would like to clear up one more thing:
Aposke wrote: he also later accused me of editing in my apology in this post viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14404#p186722, which I clearly did not, as this post shows no signs of editing).
You did, in fact, edit this post in the first five minutes after you posted it. It seems very unlikely that this is relevant to the discussion, but I felt it worth mentioning.

In light of the above commentary, I, personally, do not accept your apology. I feel that, if you meant to make a sincere apology, you would do so without at the same time attempting to shift the blame and represent yourself as a victim. If other members of talkhaus are satisfied with your apology, however, feel free to continue as normal.

Rena
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