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[Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Damn, it feels good to be a gangster.

What should the theme of this game be?

Poll ended at 9 years ago

Standard Werewolf (Theme is villagers and werewolves)
2
12%
Standard Mafia (Theme is townspeople and the mafia)
2
12%
Talkhaus Invasion (The forum is being attacked by internet undesirables)
7
41%
ASMT: The game: The game (ASMT themed, possible roles include Furbas, Goopas, ABCDs, etc.)
6
35%
Other (Please specify in a post)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 17

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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Hoeloe »

I'll stop the game when it's no longer possible for one side or the other to win or tie. At the moment, either side could still win.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Mikkofier »

Goddamn Vigilante...
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Hoeloe »

Mikkofier wrote:Goddamn Vigilante...
Well, as deaths go, being killed by Talkhaus Batman isn't so bad.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Sorel »

Good luck talkhaus.

you still have a chance to win.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Whimsical Calamari »

yeah, sorry about that :\
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Mikkofier »

I was having such fun, too, pretending to be an evil mastermind...

So it turns out, by acting innocent, I made myself suspicious. And good bit of the ones still in haven't said much. Heck, two of them haven't even posted anything for the whole game!
It's almost (but not really) like War Games taught us:
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by raekuul »

The good news is that there's either one of each faction left (bad) or just one left period (good)

The bad news is that this game is now officially in LYLO - and that's only if there's just one left. If there's one of each left, whichever one doesn't get killed wins.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Falky »

raekuul wrote:The bad news is that this game is now officially in LYLO - and that's only if there's just one left.
If there's only one left, it would be mylo.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by raekuul »

True. But the town doesn't know for certain how many are left, and the factions sure as hell better not give that information out prematurely.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by sedron »

That was very interesting. Good game, guys!

I guess I'll wait for Hoeloe to put up the night logs to talk about stuff! It's a shame the town's major players mostly died so early on.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Hoeloe »

sedron wrote:It's a shame the town's major players mostly died so early on.
It is. These multi-team games tend to work quite well I find, because they allow more people to have interesting roles. There are more mafia players to deal with, but by splitting them into teams, they only know the identity of a portion of their team-mates. Losing two of their major players right at the start did put the innocents at a huge disadvantage, though.

Also, night logs are up now.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by TheVulpineHero1 »

I can't say it wasn't interesting, even from the sidelines. I'm not sure how balanced the game was in the end; I think it puts into perspective just how much more town needs information than it needs fancy extended roles.
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As the hacker-version of the doctor, I had a list of three people I could choose; the first one on the list still in play would be protected. My decision for who to protect first night basically went, "Who are the first three people to post constructively other than me? They're probably good for it." Thus, I protected Falky, Raekuul and Willhart -- sadly, in that order. If I had put Raekuul first, perhaps the game would have turned out somewhat differently.

A little on the role balance: Although it might seem like the doctor's power was souped up based on the fact that you can pick three and there's a failsafe, realistically, it's no different. Because you had to send powers in by day, the only things that could possibly mess you up are a daykill (which I don't think even the vigilante expy had in this setup) or the town vote. A doctor who's paying attention shouldn't be wasting their power protecting somebody who looks like they're going to get banhammered anyway; the one niche use is that you can set and forget your power if you can't be on the site to check new developments, which talkhaus usually does just by making day and night phases separate. (I'm not even sure why there's a third person allowed on the list, since unless I've misunderstood one of the roles, you'll only ever have one person die, since after the banhammer your power 'must' activate before trolls to protect from kills). So, essentially, although there were nominal extra powers, they meant nothing in the context of the game and the docs were effectively 'nilla docs. Not bad, of course, since doctors are one of the most important/potentially gamechanging roles and don't particularly need upgrades, but I'm more or less just spelling it out. Of course, the fact that the doctor's power was essentially split in two between two methods of death means we were, by necessity, only going to be 50% as useful as a normal docs even if we did live beyond n1.


There seemed to be a lot of confusion from players based on the idea of 'day powers'; this, probably, is because a) we've never played those rules on this particular forum and b) because I understand that setup is apparently less common in general. I'm not sure what could have been done about this; Hoeloe seems to have tried to make sure players know in their PMs (I know mine specifically mentions 'every day'), but since they were new takes on old roles, I can imagine there was more skim-reading than rules lawyering going on. It still meant that tow had a disadvantage, since docs were protecting and cops weren't detecting despite being able to. If I had any advice, (this is to Hoeloe), maybe try bolding changes to rules that differ from this forum's established ruleset. I know that somebody linked you to our previous mafia games archive earlier in-thread, so the fact that you were surprised by some of the ways we played the game in the past could easily have been rectified.

I'd be interested in hearing how and why the mafs decide to kill who they did; I always am when I get killed n1.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by raekuul »

Ahem.

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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by sedron »

Okay, so I forgot to use my power at all on Night 1, and also I didn't realize I could use it during the day and have it count for night so life is hard.

On Night 2, I redirected Willhart's trolling at himself. I've never played a mafia game on a forum before (plenty of times in person, though,) and I wasn't entirely sure that it made sense within the game's rules to redirect someone's abilities at themselves, but Hoeloe was cool with it so I went with it. I'm happy to have gotten a troll I was suspicious of, so this is like a victory if I totally ignore how I died really early on.

The other two people on my redirect list were Fluffimasta and Falky, again, both at themselves. I don't think I would have had either on my list after Night 2, but thankfully Willhart was priority 1. Falky banning himself would have been a really bad time. =P
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by pholtos »

So in the end I didn't really get why the last day made sense to be had. If there were two town peeps left, sure, it made sense then. However, I was part of a duo on the invaders end.

As such all we had to do was pick one of the others during the day, and since there were 2 of us it would have either tied or gone through no problem. If we had in fact picked wrong we'd just kill the other on that night. So yeah.

Beyond that I just didn't really put myself in the crossfire. Holy's comment about my innocence surely helped my cause a bit.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Hoeloe »

TheVulpineHero1 wrote:If I had any advice, (this is to Hoeloe), maybe try bolding changes to rules that differ from this forum's established ruleset.
That was my bad. I did have a quick skim through the older games before, but didn't look in enough detail to realise there were rule differences. The town was mainly put at a disadvantage because of the confusion of the first two days, thanks to that.

Your particular role didn't really need a list of 3, that was just because the rest of the powers asked for a list of 3 for backups, as they could potentially have multiple people killed beforehand, and I was keeping it consistent. The balance does tend to work in these games though. While some powers, like yours, are diminished in usefulness, it's easily offset by the fact that the mafia often kill off each other. That didn't happen much this game, partly due to luck, and partly due to good playing. I've played a lot of games with exactly this ruleset, and even more extreme ones (I played a game with 3 mafia teams once), and the ratio of town:mafia wins is about 50/50. The lack of information on numbers and roles is perhaps the biggest deviation, and it does affect the town more than the mafia, but I find it makes the game more interesting, as it adds an element of "what actually happened?" over the top of "who is the bad guy?".

As I say, I've tried this on a few forums before, and the games usually go over pretty well. I'd be interested to hear how you guys found the different rules and style.
pholtos wrote:So in the end I didn't really get why the last day made sense to be had. If there were two town peeps left, sure, it made sense then.
Because of the lack of information between the two mafia teams (although the hackers, by that point, had perfect information on the roles of the other players), there was one scenario that could have ended with a tie (thanks to the fact that trolls move before hackers), rather than an outright loss. That's why the last day was run, but it didn't turn out that way.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by raekuul »

Final day, 2:1:1 split between factions (counting town as a faction).

There was enough left of one faction to force at least a stallout. The best result would have been for the remainder to have both voted the same person and hope you shoot true and your counterpart shoots badly. Even then, that would have ended up a draw since you'd be evenly matched.

Still, you play out situations like this just in case you can get a draw instead of an outright win. Good call on Hoeloe's part.

EDIT: Oh, so one faction had priority over the other. Well, that precludes a draw but you still want to run the final day in that case in case one faction guesses right and the other wrong.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Falky »

sedron wrote:Falky banning himself would have been a really bad time. =P
Would have been quite funny, at least. I've seen similar things happen on EM when there's a driver.
pholtos wrote:Holy's comment about my innocence surely helped my cause a bit.
Yeah, the difference between hackers and trolls for cop reports escaped my attention.
Hoeloe wrote:
TheVulpineHero1 wrote:If I had any advice, (this is to Hoeloe), maybe try bolding changes to rules that differ from this forum's established ruleset.
That was my bad. I did have a quick skim through the older games before, but didn't look in enough detail to realise there were rule differences. The town was mainly put at a disadvantage because of the confusion of the first two days, thanks to that.
The rules we generally play by seem to be based on those of Epicmafia. A lot of people who used to play mafia on here played on there a fair bit, as did I. Haven't really played much for a few months though.
As I say, I've tried this on a few forums before, and the games usually go over pretty well. I'd be interested to hear how you guys found the different rules and style.
On the whole I liked it. I've played multi-maf setups before. It does seem a bit more mafia-sided with not knowing possible roles and numbers though. Also I've already mentioned the thing about night phases. I've thought about hosting a game here myself before, but never got round to it. My plan would be a game based on the standard 12-person setups played in the Sandbox lobby on EM. With 12 people, it's 7 town, 3 mafia and 2 third-party. There's a pool of possible roles so you know what roles may be in the game, but you're not sure what exactly is in. Gives scum a good opportunity to fake claim. Of course, numbers would be adjusted and I'd probably throw in a couple of blues for balance if I ever get round to it.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Willhart »

How did the hackers convert Window Squeegee on Day 4?
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by pholtos »

Hoeloe wrote:You are a Hacker. Your job is to infiltrate the forum, and take it down from inside.

POWER: Account Lock
Each day, one of you can send me a list of 3 other players. The first member on the list who is still in play that night will be removed from play, having had their account locked by your 1337 skillz.

SPECIAL POWER: Takeover
Once in the entire run of the game, you may opt to use this power and send me a list of 3 other players. The first member on the list who is still in play that night will be converted to your team, as you take over their account. You can only use this once, so make it count!

You win the game when all the respectable users have been eliminated.
Hope that explains it.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Mikkofier »

Even though I died, my faction won and therefore I feel justified to do this:


Excellent work, Pholtos, Elgadika and Window Squeegee!
Willhart wrote:How did the hackers convert Window Squeegee on Day 4?
Hacker powers: EDIT: pholtos beat me to it.
Here's the planning things:
Day 1
Mikkofier wrote:Greetings, my fellow hackers! The first step to rid this forum of people who aren't us is to make a list of 3 people whom we want to ban this day, in order of preference.

My proposal would be

1. Raekuul
2. Falky
3. Fluffimasta

I think any of these would throw a good amount of suspicion on other people who aren't us.
pholtos wrote:Sounds good to me. No objections.
Elgadika wrote:Yeah, that list looks good.
Day 2
Mikkofier wrote:Alright, day 1 was a success. Now, I'm feeling that Willhart is being awfully sketchy, what with being eager to jump on the RL bandwagon, so he might be a Troll. I say we leave him be for now, because the others might lynch him on their own. My idea is that we should maybe go after some of the quieter ones. They might be other trolls or even "cops". What do you think?
pholtos wrote:Hmm if that's the case...

KobaBeach
8flight
Window Squeegee
sedron
Holy

The italicized ones have spoken but haven't said much.
The non italicized have yet to speak.

Just my observations.
Mikkofier wrote:This quote should maybe give some ideas:
sedron wrote:Three players haven't posted here so far. They're Koba, Elgadika and 8flight. Two of them have been active, but 8flight hasn't been around in a couple of days. He should be a non-threat, by that token, so voting for him would probably be a bad idea for now. Koba and Elga are probably at least aware the game is running, and could be participating in PMs and stuff, so that's a thing.

Otherwise, I think cases of suspicion could be made for Falky, Fluffi, Willhart, Vergalon or myself. Maybe we should discuss this group of people for now?
My new proposal is
  1. Sedron
  2. Holy
  3. Window Squeegee
Here's how I see it: If sedron gets hacked, suspicion may fall on the others he mentioned as suspicious. If Sedron's protected somehow, the two other possible victims might cause some confusion.
pholtos wrote:Uhhh... all right sounds like a plan. If it isn't apparent I'm not very good at thinking up plans myself, I'm just trying to sound like I'm a villager since that's what I'm used to being in the hopes of not drawing any attention to myself. I think it's working well so far.
Elgadika wrote:Putting Sedron first is good. Not sure about the other two but I suppose it's fine as long as they're quieter ones.
Day 3
Mikkofier wrote:That was some luck right there! Not only did we lose some possible competition, they lost a pretty useful member!
My proposal for the day is

1. Fluffimasta
2. Holy
3. Kobabeach

Offing Fluffi might, using reverse psychology, bring Falky under suspicion. The other two are quiet, so they might be coordinating something via pm, like us.

Also, remember that we have that Takeover thing we can use to convert one of them to our side. We should use it if one of us comes under suspicion to convert one of those rallying the lynch mob.
Elgadika wrote:Not sure about putting Koba on that list. He's already under a little bit of suspicion for not posting at all yet, much like I am, so keeping him around would deflect suspicion away from me slightly. (Though he's third on the list, so the chances of him being hacked are slim, so eh, plus I'm probably worrying too much about possibly being banned/lynched/whatever)
Maybe we should put someone who's quiet but has posted (much like Holy). Window Squeegee maybe (like the last list)? Otherwise the list looks fine.
Mikkofier wrote:Good point. New list then:

1. Fluffimasta
2. Holy
3. Window Squeegee
Elgadika wrote:Looks good, go for it.
Day 4
pholtos wrote:Ok.... so I'm guessing we're the neutral group. Otherwise the game probably might've been over by now.

Also it's great the cop for our group is out.
What do you guys think about using our ability?
Mikkofier wrote:Our win condition is that all respectable users (I think that means "town"?) are eliminated, so eliminating Trolls is not as productive as eliminating regular users.
The Trolls really did us a service last night :lol:

As for the Takeover ability, the best target at the moment could be Falky, though I think we should save it for if one of us gets the majority vote for lynch.

Should we eliminate Falky today or save him for later?
Elgadika wrote:How do you feel about hacking Whimsical Calamari? He's the only one out of the four on bkamakaze's tomodachi life poll thing that's really a target (pholtos is on our side, and Fluffi and 8flight are already out), so doing so might make people suspicious of bk. (On the other hand, going for Calamari and then stopping short of pholtos might make them suspicious of pholtos, so that's possibly a problem with this plan.) Maybe we should give more time to see how voting goes, but it's a start of an idea.

I think we should save Falky for now; he'd be good for using takeover on if one of us gets majority vote (unless he's a troll).
Mikkofier wrote:We could also go after someone completely unrelated, like Window Squeegee, but we seem to be getting close to the end, so Calamari could be a good target too... Holy turned out to be troll!cop, so he's basically harmless to us and the trolls will probably get him next night. Now, assuming there's 3 trolls like there's 3 of us and Holy isn't bluffing, we have 5 possible targets:

bkamakaze (Suspicious as hell)
Falky (most visible player, might be a troll? Should consider Takeover in the future)
KobaBeach (quiet and therefore suspicious)
Whimsical Calamari (was in bk:s poll, but so was pholtos...)
Window Squeegee (blank slate)
Elgadika wrote:When I think about it though, using takeover on Falky might not be such a good idea because of his visibility (he's gained a bit of suspicion), so it might be better to use it on someone who has posted but is sorta flying under the radar, like Window Squeegee.

Also, if we use takeover now, that'd be one less "respectable user", so does that take us a step closer towards victory? If so, we could use it now.
Mikkofier wrote:
Hoeloe wrote:
Mikkofier wrote:When we use Takeover, do we still use Account Lock, as usual?
I'll say you can use one or the other, so you can either ban or convert on a single night, but not both. I should have made that clear, I apologise.
So for Takeover

1. Window Squeegee
2. Falky
3. Whimsical Calamari

Sound good?
Here I ended up not waiting long enough for a response and sent the list anyway. Sorry, guys :(
And then I died.
Mikkofier wrote:Win this one. For me? May our new minion be useful!
I liked pretending to be an evil mastermind, but unfortunately I'm actually kind of dumb.
gg, would love to play again!
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by pholtos »

Oh yeah, so what brought about the decision to kill Squeegee after the whole conversion fiasco, troll group?
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by TheVulpineHero1 »

Just in case I forgot to say this, I did think this game was fun and I'd be up for another like it.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by Dizzybelle »

pholtos wrote:Oh yeah, so what brought about the decision to kill Squeegee after the whole conversion fiasco, troll group?
we didnt know what he was anymore, for all we knew he could have been converted to a positive role, and would have given us away.
the hackers and the trolls worked seperately, we just knew who was on our team.
i was under the impression that hackers were a third party, a seperate team from trolls/users, but it seemed they were on the side of evil anyway.
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Re: [Mafia] Talkhaus Invasion and Ice Cream Discussion Thread

Post by pholtos »

I guess clarity was a big issue in this mafia.
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