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Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

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Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Argumentable »

The current time is: OUT OF ORDER

Hello, welcome to mafia the thread. In this thread we play mafia. If you have any questions about anything feel free to ask. Also if you ruin the game intentionally I will probably ban you. Hooray!!!

Here are some general rules

Code: Select all

1. Don't talk about mafia outside of mafia, unless you're mafia and it's night.
2. Don't post in this thread if it's night or if you're dead. Well, you can post once if you're dead but you can't reveal any game information. It's basically just so you can say something stupid like "Bury me with my money"
3. Anything and everything the host (that's me) says is true. Even if it looks like a lie.
4. If your role does something at night, you have 24 hours to send in that action. Even if you plan on not doing anything please send that in as your action. If you will be unavailable to perform some action or post for an extended period of time, let me know and we will work something out.
5. You may not edit things out of your post, but you can add new things provided nobody else has posted yet
6. You will probably die
Here are the roles and any special shit that they can do. Aside from fucking up the game
TOWN
Villager x 3 - This is a member of the town that can't do anything. Exciting!
Miller - This is a member of the town that can't do anything. Slightly more exciting is that he appears guilty to investigations. He will not know he is a miller and upon death will appear to be a villager
Cop - Can investigate one person each night to see if they are guilty (mafia) or innocent (town)
Insane Cop - This is like the regular cop, except everything is backwards. Appears as a cop to self and when dead.
Paranoid Cop - This is a cop that finds everyone guilty no matter what. Appears as a cop to self and when dead.
Naive Cop - This is a cop that finds everyone innocent no matter what. He's pretty dumb just like the person playing him! Appears as a cop to self and when dead.
Tracker - Can follow one person per night and see anyone/everyone they visit.
Doc - Can save one person from getting killed by the mafia if they pick the correct person. They probably won't cause nobody ever does
Oracle - Upon death will reveal the true role of whoever they visited the previous night (yes this oracle visits)
Hunter - This is a member of the town that can't do anything. Except take somebody down with them if they are lynched
Drunk - Can visit one person each night to prevent them from doing their night action. They're kind of a dick!
Gunman - This person starts with a gun and can shoot someone whenever they want. Except they have to wait for their permit in the mail so they won't have it until day three. Also they won't be revealed when they shoot

MAFIA
Traitor - This person is a member of the mafia that can't do anything. They are not even in the meetings and the mafia don't know who they are. They show up as innocent at least. For all other purposes they are a villager (read: if they're still alive and all maf are dead town wins)
Vanilla Mafia - A mafia. That's it!
Stalker - Can visit someone each night and learn their true role. Maybe???
Hooker - This is basically a mafia drunk
Janitor x 2 - Each can hide a body once per game so the deceased's role is not revealed at all, except to the Janitor

OTHER
Amnesiac x 2 - Can visit A CORPSE and become that dead person's role. They always wait for mafia to die though!
I've probably forgot stuff so stay here for news you can use.

PLAYERS
Agent Emerald
Aposke
Cup
dashta
Falky
JesuisContent
Limepie20 (Amnesiac)
Lukaramu
Pholtos
ultratowel112
Validon98
TheVulpineHero1

Dead Losers
Wareng (Stalker)
Sturgyman (Cop)
O'Lagrill (Tracker)
Cirnya (Villager)
BTYM (Miller)
Anomaly
Redsy (Oracle)
Nabe (Cop)
Bartle
Alex2 (Villager)
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia

Post by Argumentable »

It's night 1 but I'm still handing out roles UGH you have a while to give me your actions if any!!!
I'm on Youtube andTwitter and Discord so say hi to me on there cause I don't really post here also I have sigs off so I can make my sig as ugly as I want and it won't bother me this is my sig btw
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Argumentable »

Hi it's day one now, night took a little longer than it should have! Bartle is dead nobody likes Bartle. Paralars is gone too but he didn't really want to play (it's okay he was just a villager)

Okay go

E: Yeh I'm in a rush
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Validon98 »

Wait a minute, both Bartle and Paralars got killed? I don't even know how that could have happened. If that's right, that means that they probably janed the killed for Bartle. Why would they do that on the first day?
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by TheVulpineHero1 »

To open up to claim the role, I guess? There's two jans in this setup, so maybe they think they can afford it. I think the only roles with mort-like ability to negate janning are the amnesiacs, so unless they visited Bartle last night and got his role (and want to claim, since they're listed as others and not Townsided), we can't know for certain who he was.
Argumentable wrote: Paralars is gone too but he didn't really want to play
Does this mean Paralars quit instead of actually killed by mafs? If so, that's a really bad thing to happen N1. Sure, he was only a blue, but that means we're one down on where we should be with no penalty for the mafs. I guess it's not really that important. The big problem is that we have four cops, only two of whom actually give usable reports and only one of whom gives them the right way round. So our reports are going to be unreliable unless we sanity-test the hell out of the cops. Even asking them all to report on the same guy won't work as a san test, since it'll always come out as 2 innos, 2 guilties. And the miller is still about, if Paralars wasn't it. It'll probably take a few more days/nights until they can give decent info. Probably our best bet is tracker, but that's a roughly 1/4 chance of picking maf in the first place and our other visiting roles confound that. We don't want to lynch doc by accident, although I guess Oracle is just blue until dead and drunk is kind've a liability until we figure out who the scum are.

So, all in all, we're down two guys, we don't even know what Bartle was, our report roles bar tracker are unreliable and tracker is also unreliable unless we get lucky. Great start. We've also got Hunter in the mix so RL has the risk of killing off two more townies if we mislynch badly. 4 dead by day 1 would be catastrophically unlucky. What do we do?
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Nabe »

Paralars isn't listed as dead (or alive) in the OP.

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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by BTYM »

I don't care how the game turns out because I made it past turn one this time
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by TheVulpineHero1 »

I don't actually know. From what I've read of previous mafias, D1 is basically wait for reports and RL if no other recourse is available. But cops won't know whose report is good yet, and considering the number of people it looks like it'll be a long game; I feel like even if they knew their reports were good, a cop claiming on D1 would be pretty risky. We don't have any real info to work with, however, so it's RL unless someone changes that.

I guess we could no lynch, but roughly 1/4 chance of finding maf is still a chance, and handing them another turn runs the chance of them randomhitting our cops or doc. Cops and docs make up like 1/3rd of townsided this time, so that's a very real chance.

All in all, I haven't played enough games to say what the best course of action is at this point. I was hoping some of the more experienced players would suggest something. What do you think is the best option, Nabe?
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by dashta »

It would be kinda stupid of a cop to out himself this early on, no matter how juicy the results of his report, at this stage in the game they are unverifiable, even if we test by lynching the report, we still wont know what cop the guy is, due to that miller and the fact that there are 4 friggen cops.

So sadly, unless the tracker wants to out himself so early, we don't have any reports to go off of, and just kinda have to rely on a RL.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Jesuiscontent »

The cop setup is all sorts of annoying yeah. We probably won't have any reports before a while unless tracker gets lucky. Also I think Paralars can be considered "not in the game at all" since he was erased from the player list and one villager disappeared in the role list (so he wasn't miller).
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Validon98 »

So that means basically still that they used up a janitor to hide Bartle's role? That could mean that Bartle was important in some way, but we can't figure out in what way. I guess an Amnesiac could visit him, claim his role, and then claim, but that would be kind of stupid. The Oracle sacrificing him or herself to figure it out would also be stupid, plus it won't work because the Oracle can't visit a dead person, iirc. Also, yeah, the cop setup is just begging for us to screw up investigations. I guess at this point it's just the waiting game, huh?
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by ano0maly »

So Bartle is dead but we don't know his role?

I'd say we begin with Wareng because he moved around during the night before the evidence disappeared.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Falky »

Amn can only amn dead people, Vulpine, ie people already in the graveyard, so the earliest someone could amn is n2. Also, on the cops point, remember there's a traitor as well. At least by now the cops should have narrowed themselves down to three possibilities. The janning also means that one jan is effectively a nilla now, so that's something.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by dashta »

ano0maly wrote
I'd say we begin with Wareng because he moved around during the night before the evidence disappeared.
What do you mean by this? I'm kinda confused.
Did our tracker out himself already? Doc better get on him then.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Cup »

This game has so many people and so many complicating roles that I've already given up trying to follow it.

Someone should make a spreadsheet or something to keep track of this beast. Probably will at some point. Right now though, we know nothing.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Redsy »

So NOW the mortician actually has a use? Figures ><

First day is hard. Basically just a random lynch unless someone actually has a valuable information.
A spreadsheet would be good though. Maybe I'll make one when I get home. Unless you want to do it, Cup.

Also cops are so confusing this round and almost useless since we don't even know which one is which and ahhhhhh.

I suppose we wait for reports though now anyway, if people do report. But I don't want the cops to report and then get killed in the night cause then we lose valuable players. Even if they're not valuable RIGHT now.

Hopefully I'm making sense. I don't know.


Edit: just realized we don't even have a mortician. That kinda sucks.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by ultratowel112 »

My thoughts about things:

N1 events: Paralars quitting sucks. Janning n1 is very common in EpicMafia, so much so that the lack of a n1 jan makes people think that either:
  1. The janitor is stupid and chose the wrong target (too likely in EM, not likely here)
  2. A bodyguard died in place of the target (impossible in this setup)
  3. The janitor was selected by the drunk (about a 1/22 chance, since Paralars was still in the game last night and not counting the drunk)
This does 2 things that help the mafia:
  1. It opens up something for them to claim
  2. It means that the town cannot trust uncc'd claims (such as tracker)
D1 possibilities: Even a visit from the tracker doesn't mean anything because there are so many town-sided roles that could visit Bartle (all 4 cops, the drunk, and the oracle if it doesn't have the same mechanics as EM). This means that someone visiting Bartle actually has a statistically higher chance of being town than being maf, at least the way past forum mafia games have worked (only 1 mafia is sent to kill, 1 stalks, one seduces, and maybe the janitor also visits if maf didn't send the janitor as their killer).

Cop thoughts: cops should not claim until they can at least confirm that they are neither paranoid nor naive (this means a guilty and an innocent). We can try to sanity test from there, but miller might throw it off. If the lynch is going for one of the cops (on a later day), that person should out all of their reports up to that point

Amnesiac thoughts: We can't rely on these guys for anything at any point in the game. In EM, amnesiacs usually choose to stay amnesiacs until it becomes clear that one side has a much better chance of winning than the other. This may be either choosing mafia in an otherwise lylo situation (granting the mafia and amnesiac an automatic win) or when town outnumbers the mafia by such a large amount that a massclaim would lead to autowin. Their scumhunting might either be them trying to lynch a mafia or trying to avoid a mafia, depending on which way they are thinking about going in the mid/late game.

Drunk thoughts: going off of my thoughts from "D1 possibilities", I am thinking that drunk should stay away from drunking people for a while. It is more likely that the drunk will choose a town power role than one of the 3 or 4 mafia visitors (again, depending on whether the janitor is sent to kill/jan or just to jan should mafia want to do that a second time).

Tracker thoughts: as I have already said, don't out a Bartle visit today. If you catch that person visiting the night kill again, then it is up to you whether or not you out it (super low chance that it was a town PR, though).

Questions for Argu:
  • Does oracle reveal the true identity of someone (miller, traitor, cop sanity), or just how they appear when dead?
  • Does traitor appear as a villager or a mafia when dead?
  • Does traitor know that s/he is a traitor, or is it like miller?
Overall, my opinion is that we should actually lynch nobody today. There is a higher chance of hitting a town PR (10 people, 9 if one was janned) than a mafia (5 people, 6 if you count traitor). Amnesiacs weren't included in the odds because they might choose town. Even if you want them dead, that is at most 8 non-town (traitor or amnesiac could be janned) and a minimum of 9 town PRs - still a higher chance of hitting a PR. Right now, a spreadsheet isn't necessary, unless someone wants to set one up to get ready for a later day and put it on a google doc or something.

If you don't know any of the acronyms used in this post, you suck can read the EpicMafia wiki
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Argumentable »

1) True role means actual role (miller, insane cop, etc)
2&3) Traitor is always known as traitor
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by limepie20 »

I think we should lynch a random person. The odds may be against us, but I feel like it's always a waste to not take the opportunity of having an ml.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Falky »

Hard to say. If we RL and happen to lynch a cop, that could muddy the waters even further.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by TheVulpineHero1 »

Falky wrote:Amn can only amn dead people, Vulpine, ie people already in the graveyard, so the earliest someone could amn is n2. Also, on the cops point, remember there's a traitor as well. At least by now the cops should have narrowed themselves down to three possibilities. The janning also means that one jan is effectively a nilla now, so that's something.
Right, right. Man, the roles get really confusing sometimes.

I don't know what to think about the traitor, though. I sort've...don't get the point? Isn't he just a blue with a different name? Why not just have an extra villager in that case? I'm sure there is a point (I thought the agent role in the last game was pointless, and then it turned out very helpful) but it's not apparent to me.
Argumentable wrote:1) True role means actual role (miller, insane cop, etc)
2&3) Traitor is always known as traitor
So that means we can potentially sac the oracle for an absolute san test. Still, that would require cops to claim and the oracle to claim, and might not be wise anyway.

Question for argu (set apart so you see it): when you say 'the person they visited the previous night', does the oracle's current visit count if being hit by mafs? i.e. if they visit someone n2 and try to visit someone n3 but get hit, does oracle reveal who they visited on n2 (literally, the previous night) or does the oracle's visit essentially 'go before' the maf hit so they report the person they visit n3?

Because if the former, it will be super hard to get use out of the oracle via saccing since mafs will hit oracle during the night after they claim and doc will invalidate oracle actually doing anything. In that case, cop would have to claim a day before, the oracle stays secret but visits cop, then outs next day and gets lynched for town profit. I'm not saying oracle sac will be a plan we want to use, but it'd be nice to know beforehand in case we want to consider it down the line. It worked well last game.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by limepie20 »

If we rl the worst roll we can lose is a doc. If we lose a cop it isn't such a big deal because there are still two other cops. Also, while there is 1/20 or whatever chance we get doc, there is 6/20 or whatever chance we get one of those goddamn mafia assholes.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Falky »

TheVulpineHero1 wrote:I don't know what to think about the traitor, though. I sort've...don't get the point?
Traitor is effectively a mafia that doesn't attend meetings and can be killed by the maf. Maf doesn't know traitor and vice versa. Not too much to worry about unless we get to a lylo situation, really.
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by Aposke »

Well yeah, this game is confusing as all hell.
To make things a bit easier for us townies, I took Cup's advice and made a spreadsheet for us all.

Here ya go

That'll likely be the only contribution you'll be getting from me today. Have a nice lynch (or don't).
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Re: Mystery Meat Mafia - Participation

Post by dashta »

Limepie wrote:
Stuff
Sure we are not likely to lose an important job, but we ARE more likely to lose one of our own, for no reason other than "I think we should just kill a dude and hope". This is a game predominantly about numbers, and lowering ours without probable cause that they are not ours is never really a good idea in my opinion.
I'd advise a no lynch, unless we can get some info of some kind.
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