1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
These are proposals, not suggestions. I think the gazebo is a fine place for this thread. I guess this is a thread for discussing how to fix this terrible website. Here's an essay to get things started
These forums have been in decline just about as long as they've been in existence. However, several factors have recently hastened this decline to the point where it seems the forums may not see their third birthday. The problems are very simple, as are the solutions, which shall be explained below. However, first we must examine the issues keeping the talkhaus from realizing its true potential.
Since August 28, 2011, only 117 new users have registered. On that day, TLs4 enacted an unnecessary new rule in response to the recent flood of spambots – all new users must now post in the new user forum and their registration must be approved by an administrator. 117 users in 148 days. In another randomly-picked 148-day period, January 1, 2010 to May 29, 2010, 508 new users were registered (including yours truly). I understand that the spambot problem was getting out of hand, and this rule may be effective as a temporary solution, but there are simpler ways of dealing with it.
There are, at present, two forums-wide moderators, Argumentable and limepie20. Obviously these two could not control the spambot problem by themselves, and really, who can blame them? I propose removing the administrator approval rule and appointing new moderators. Of course, this does not address the issue of spambots registering. This is the current CAPTCHA for the forums:
This is easily circumvented and must be replaced. I propose tighter security measures at registration: a CAPTCHA that can't be solved by a one-year-old, perhaps, and additional questions – simple spelling or math questions, maybe – that make it more difficult for robotzz to register.
In almost three years of operation, only 2860 users have signed up, including spambots. That is less than half of raocow's total viewership. Only eighteen of these users have made more than 1000 posts. What was once a bustling forum full of bright-eyed fans united by their love of raocow has become a cynical shithole populated by a small number of regular users who scare off all prospective members. With the aforementioned restrictions removed, I predict that we will see an influx of new users, gradually breathing life back into these once-great forums. A broader, bigger userbase means a revitalized community and an end to all our problems. All we need is a spark – some kind of catalyst to get the ball rolling. I propose that raocow plug the forums again after these restrictions are lifted. The sudden spike in users will start a snowball effect that will make us great again.
Nobody signs up for this place because they don't see anything worth signing up for. Most of the users who signed up at the beginning have either become jaded, left or are only passively involved in the community. If these proposals are enacted, I predict that we will once again have a proper forum.
Title: 29 users (approx. 1%) account for 47622 posts, out of a total of 109570 – approximately 43% of all posts. January 1 to May 29: reporting period picked by http://www.random.org. All proposals concerning CAPTCHA and reconfiguring the registration system: I do not know, or claim to know, anything about computers or internet boxes or anything of the sort. It is very likely that these proposed changes would be impossible or ineffective. raocow's total viewership: averaged from all videos from the past week, excluding today's. The average number of views for each video is 6001. Margin of error on all statistics is “I don't care and I'm bad at math”. Take these numbers at face-value, and before you rage and post about how wrong I am, remember you're on a Youtube let's play forum.
These forums have been in decline just about as long as they've been in existence. However, several factors have recently hastened this decline to the point where it seems the forums may not see their third birthday. The problems are very simple, as are the solutions, which shall be explained below. However, first we must examine the issues keeping the talkhaus from realizing its true potential.
Since August 28, 2011, only 117 new users have registered. On that day, TLs4 enacted an unnecessary new rule in response to the recent flood of spambots – all new users must now post in the new user forum and their registration must be approved by an administrator. 117 users in 148 days. In another randomly-picked 148-day period, January 1, 2010 to May 29, 2010, 508 new users were registered (including yours truly). I understand that the spambot problem was getting out of hand, and this rule may be effective as a temporary solution, but there are simpler ways of dealing with it.
There are, at present, two forums-wide moderators, Argumentable and limepie20. Obviously these two could not control the spambot problem by themselves, and really, who can blame them? I propose removing the administrator approval rule and appointing new moderators. Of course, this does not address the issue of spambots registering. This is the current CAPTCHA for the forums:
This is easily circumvented and must be replaced. I propose tighter security measures at registration: a CAPTCHA that can't be solved by a one-year-old, perhaps, and additional questions – simple spelling or math questions, maybe – that make it more difficult for robotzz to register.
In almost three years of operation, only 2860 users have signed up, including spambots. That is less than half of raocow's total viewership. Only eighteen of these users have made more than 1000 posts. What was once a bustling forum full of bright-eyed fans united by their love of raocow has become a cynical shithole populated by a small number of regular users who scare off all prospective members. With the aforementioned restrictions removed, I predict that we will see an influx of new users, gradually breathing life back into these once-great forums. A broader, bigger userbase means a revitalized community and an end to all our problems. All we need is a spark – some kind of catalyst to get the ball rolling. I propose that raocow plug the forums again after these restrictions are lifted. The sudden spike in users will start a snowball effect that will make us great again.
Nobody signs up for this place because they don't see anything worth signing up for. Most of the users who signed up at the beginning have either become jaded, left or are only passively involved in the community. If these proposals are enacted, I predict that we will once again have a proper forum.
Title: 29 users (approx. 1%) account for 47622 posts, out of a total of 109570 – approximately 43% of all posts. January 1 to May 29: reporting period picked by http://www.random.org. All proposals concerning CAPTCHA and reconfiguring the registration system: I do not know, or claim to know, anything about computers or internet boxes or anything of the sort. It is very likely that these proposed changes would be impossible or ineffective. raocow's total viewership: averaged from all videos from the past week, excluding today's. The average number of views for each video is 6001. Margin of error on all statistics is “I don't care and I'm bad at math”. Take these numbers at face-value, and before you rage and post about how wrong I am, remember you're on a Youtube let's play forum.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Here is one of the bigger issues. It's just a forum for a youtuber with a relatively small fanbase.Take these numbers at face-value, and before you rage and post about how wrong I am, remember you're on a Youtube let's play forum.
And why would people register for this small forum with few active users when they can just sign up (or are already registered) at bigger forums that include a lot more diversity and users.
Time can be an issue for people. A big portion of posts in the introduction thread comes down to 'I'll see if I have the time to hang around'.
I do think it would be nice if this place would get fresh blood, and it could possibly help me become more active again. If it's possible to redo the whole register thing and greet people with open arms it's worth a try at the very least.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
This is a good conversation to have. The forums and irc haven't been great lately, but raocow's viewership has only been growing. It's hard for me to tell where the disconnect is.
I was having a short conversation with argue about this sort of thing just a moment ago, and people are still discussing ideas on irc if anyone would like to join in. A few things that have been suggested are:
-A possible chatbox via the irc that rena is looking into (if anything ever comes of that, one of us will probably get in touch with thissa about it over in the suggestions forum).
-Additional moderators that compliment argue's style and support community projects (Stupid fun stuff like talkhaus mosts).
-More promotion from raocow. Possibly explaining the new registration system and encouraging participation (I know several people have asked on his youtube channel about process so feature a video about it wouldn't go amiss).
-As well as a few techincal suggestions for catpca like reCAPTCHAor the more experimental asirra.
The forums were about as fun as a forum for an LPer could possibly be, but things dying down and changing is a natural progression. The thing is though, that shouldn't be happening yet. If the forums and raocow's youtube channel aren't experiencing similar growth, something's amiss. We need a kick in the pants here. I think a raocow video explaining the adoption of a new captcha system to simplify the process for interested viewers, along with the announcing/introduction of some new moderators might make this place more appealing for any curious users.
I was having a short conversation with argue about this sort of thing just a moment ago, and people are still discussing ideas on irc if anyone would like to join in. A few things that have been suggested are:
-A possible chatbox via the irc that rena is looking into (if anything ever comes of that, one of us will probably get in touch with thissa about it over in the suggestions forum).
-Additional moderators that compliment argue's style and support community projects (Stupid fun stuff like talkhaus mosts).
-More promotion from raocow. Possibly explaining the new registration system and encouraging participation (I know several people have asked on his youtube channel about process so feature a video about it wouldn't go amiss).
-As well as a few techincal suggestions for catpca like reCAPTCHAor the more experimental asirra.
The forums were about as fun as a forum for an LPer could possibly be, but things dying down and changing is a natural progression. The thing is though, that shouldn't be happening yet. If the forums and raocow's youtube channel aren't experiencing similar growth, something's amiss. We need a kick in the pants here. I think a raocow video explaining the adoption of a new captcha system to simplify the process for interested viewers, along with the announcing/introduction of some new moderators might make this place more appealing for any curious users.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
I just think some people don't really have much to add other than things they say in YT comments. I also think that a part of the disconnect that you're talking about is that people only really want to watch raocow's daily episode.
I don't bother with the IRC because my connection's not exactly the greatest. I do think that less people joining up has to do with the new system, but I was getting so tired of marking spambots that were taking up the majority of front pages on here. I'll gladly take less noise if it's going to be that kind of garbage.
I always do find it amazing though that people still don't know that there are playlists for raocow's stuff right here on this very site. Look over his comments box page every now and then, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
I don't bother with the IRC because my connection's not exactly the greatest. I do think that less people joining up has to do with the new system, but I was getting so tired of marking spambots that were taking up the majority of front pages on here. I'll gladly take less noise if it's going to be that kind of garbage.
I always do find it amazing though that people still don't know that there are playlists for raocow's stuff right here on this very site. Look over his comments box page every now and then, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
you didn't need to delete your post don. I still remember the days where mods where green. Good times.
And I'm sad the rest is gone forever.. it wasn't anything special but nostalgia can be weird. If only the internet archive had a snapshot around august 2009 or something...
And I'm sad the rest is gone forever.. it wasn't anything special but nostalgia can be weird. If only the internet archive had a snapshot around august 2009 or something...
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Yeah, basically what I'm saying is I'm just nostalgia-ing, but I think it's a Very Important Issue because I've sunk three years of my goddamn life into this place and I'm not ready for it to die
And it used to be so cool! Come on man let's make it cool again
And it used to be so cool! Come on man let's make it cool again
Last edited by Dan 12 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Oh yeah I'm not a really a mod, by the way. I can only delete spambot posts outside of c.e.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
You know what?
That's funny. I've written a long text about this exact problem just a few days ago as well.
I shall now post it here, but be reminded that it does not reflect upon what Wareng has posted here before, so it might have a slightly different focus.
That's funny. I've written a long text about this exact problem just a few days ago as well.
I shall now post it here, but be reminded that it does not reflect upon what Wareng has posted here before, so it might have a slightly different focus.
Last edited by Aposke 12 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
okay lolDon Zanevsky wrote:I deleted it because moonpirate complained. And yeah, basically what I'm saying is I'm just nostalgia-ing, but I think it's a Very Important Issue because I've sunk three years of my goddamn life into this place and I'm not ready for it to die
And it used to be so cool! Come on man let's make it cool again
asdf
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Argumentable
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Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Even when irc was good I don't remember people being enthusiastic about doing anything. The only events I really remember a lot of people joining in on were the mario race and the talkhaus mosts. Usually the actual forum games (except mafia I guess) either fizzle out or have interest lost (including mafia I guess) but whatever.
I may be misremembering this, but I wanted talkhaus mosts 2 to happen but I don't recall anybody being interested in running it, including wareng (especially me). I just wanna put it out there that if you have a good idea for an event nobody is stopping you from making it. kurosaga had a romhacking contest, and it only got four entries after being open for months and being an announcement at the top of the forum. Nevermind the fact that he vanished and nobody actually won.
This is like a half-thought on the whole thing but I'm not sure which direction I want to take this, not that I disagree about talkhaus having gone on the decline.
PS ~1380 members have never made a single post. I don't think you realize how many of those new members were either fodder or just never posted anyway. I didn't even count people who have made single digit posts or all of kil's accounts.
I may be misremembering this, but I wanted talkhaus mosts 2 to happen but I don't recall anybody being interested in running it, including wareng (especially me). I just wanna put it out there that if you have a good idea for an event nobody is stopping you from making it. kurosaga had a romhacking contest, and it only got four entries after being open for months and being an announcement at the top of the forum. Nevermind the fact that he vanished and nobody actually won.
This is like a half-thought on the whole thing but I'm not sure which direction I want to take this, not that I disagree about talkhaus having gone on the decline.
I am not sure what this means or why you would say cracker-barrelArgumentable played a major role in establishing some ground ideas for the cracker-barrel, with other people eventually following him
PS ~1380 members have never made a single post. I don't think you realize how many of those new members were either fodder or just never posted anyway. I didn't even count people who have made single digit posts or all of kil's accounts.
I'm on Youtube andTwitter and Discord so say hi to me on there cause I don't really post here also I have sigs off so I can make my sig as ugly as I want and it won't bother me this is my sig btw
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
For such a small forum, the spambot catching system seems like it really would drive more people away. Especially since when you do make a post it tends to take awhile for you to activated. (Took me 4 days I believe.) Most people who are actually interested in joining are probably going to stop checking back after a day or two assuming they'll never get activated.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Actually, on that note, I was wondering what had happened to the Talkhaus Mosts last year too, and I would definitely propose a round #2 in case people want to actually vote.Argumentable wrote:I may be misremembering this, but I wanted talkhaus mosts 2 to happen but I don't recall anybody being interested in running it, including wareng (especially me).
I'd also be free to take over the organization stuff (should this happen before May 2012) if someone else works on the banners and the likes.
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Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Also I told this to Cup in a PM and I'll say it here, too, if you want tech stuff like catchpa you're better off contacting TLs4 directly (somehow) or maybe even thissa cause I don't know any reliable way to get in touch
I really don't think new members will help anything, so don't get your hopes up either way
I really don't think new members will help anything, so don't get your hopes up either way
I'm on Youtube andTwitter and Discord so say hi to me on there cause I don't really post here also I have sigs off so I can make my sig as ugly as I want and it won't bother me this is my sig btw
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Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Yo.
Uhm... yeah.
Honestly, though, 'regulars lethargy' is a powerful, powerful thing. Like, anytime sometimes happens nobody really plays along; the text anytime happens, but it's like there's already this lethargic momemtum going on and even more nothing happens. I dunno, but it had got to the point where it's affecting me too.
I have ZERO idea how forum things work on a technical level, so I have ZERO idea how to fix any of that. The truth is I was approached about creating these forums, and I said 'okay', and that's it. Even if we had brilliant ideas I wouldn't where to start to the 'how' of implementing them.
You're right that I really need to make an explicit, clear 'how to join' video thing, though.
Hmm...
Uhm... yeah.
Honestly, though, 'regulars lethargy' is a powerful, powerful thing. Like, anytime sometimes happens nobody really plays along; the text anytime happens, but it's like there's already this lethargic momemtum going on and even more nothing happens. I dunno, but it had got to the point where it's affecting me too.
I have ZERO idea how forum things work on a technical level, so I have ZERO idea how to fix any of that. The truth is I was approached about creating these forums, and I said 'okay', and that's it. Even if we had brilliant ideas I wouldn't where to start to the 'how' of implementing them.
You're right that I really need to make an explicit, clear 'how to join' video thing, though.
Hmm...
the chillaxest of dragons
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Cup wrote:A possible chatbox via the irc that rena is looking into (if anything ever comes of that, one of us will probably get in touch with thissa about it over in the suggestions forum)
You'd have to talk to TLs4 about that, not me. I only control everything.raocow.com and the spot where it gets embedded into the homepage. TLs4 does everything else (like the talkhaus and the rest of raocow.com). Also I can never get in touch with him either... still waiting for him to sign off on everything raocow 2.0Argumentable wrote:Also I told this to Cup in a PM and I'll say it here, too, if you want tech stuff like catchpa you're better off contacting TLs4 directly (somehow) or maybe even thissa cause I don't know any reliable way to get in touch
Anyway, speaking as someone who used to run a pretty big internet forum a few years ago, to drive engagement you need to convince people that they should take time out of their day to come visit and chat on your forum. And why should they do that when they can just comment directly on raocow's youtube videos? Or maybe they're committed to SMWCentral where people have been discussing mario romhacks since before this place existed. The IRC is going to be even harder - why go there to chat when you can just chat on the forums? For every new thing someone has to sign up for and/or configure, the less likely they are going to be to do it.
Here's my suggestions:
- Petion raocow to disable comments on Youtube, making Talkhaus the de-facto place to discuss them. He's not going to lose any viewership, the casual commenters who don't have anything constructive to add aren't going to bother registering for a forum, and those who want serious discussion are going to jump over.
- Kill the IRC, which IMO adds nothing.
- Replace the image captcha and approval system with a set of custom questions/answers (see: http://blog.phpbb.com/2009/06/27/3-0-6- ... s-and-you/ near the bottom, i.e. we could have "Complete the raocow Catchphrase: Freakin' _____ ) so that it's easier for new people to register.
- Get the mods to crack down on any trolling or hivemind/injokey behavior outside of the gazebo. This kind of stuff discourages new members. HOWEVER, don't get rid of the gazebo, every message board needs its' FYAD contained somewhere or it will leak all over the rest of the forums.
Now all that being said, what happens the day raocow finally stops LPing? Either Talkhaus is going to die with it, or it will evolve into a general gaming forum with a focus on mario romhacks and Japanese platformers. I guess it all depends on the state of the community at the time. But don't feel bad if it does just die off, really. There's a lot of other forums out there.
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Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Killing it won't add anything either. It's not bringing the forum down as far as I can tell, and it'll probably piss a few regulars off if that happens.Thissa wrote: - Kill the IRC, which IMO adds nothing.
"oh no my best friend was replaced by a evil demon shadow monster"
"argh i am the evil shadow monster demon shadow"
Vip is pronounced "Beep"
nostalgic realtime nitroid let's play playlist
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Do this.Thissa wrote: - Kill the IRC, which IMO adds nothing.
asdf
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Hey, more nostalgia - now I remember when everyone was complaining that raocow should disable comments. Good times.Thissa wrote:
Also, I think I mentioned in my Worst Post Ever that I deleted that the IRC is dead is because the forums are dying too. I used to blame skypehaus but honestly at this point most of them were never on these forums to begin with. Just to make this clear: I'm not asking anyone to "fix" the IRC, because I think if we can revitalize the forums then the IRC will just naturally grow again.
I'm glad so many people have responded to the thread, this is really what I was hoping for when I wasted my time writing that dumb essay that could have been summarized in one paragraph. Hopefully, though, this doesn't end up like another suggestion box thread that gets discussed and never acted on. The forums still don't have a favicon.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
if anything, the irc is WHERE the initiative to revitalize the forums is coming from
you rarely see any suggestions that pertain to the forums themselves from regulars who only post on raocow's lp threads
but then that's another issue altogether, the great majority of the people who would join the forums are only there for the convenient raocow discussion, the only way to make them interested in the forums themselves is by organizing group projects, initiative, that sort of stuff
but then, raocow is right, we are a bunch of lazy fucks/trolls
you rarely see any suggestions that pertain to the forums themselves from regulars who only post on raocow's lp threads
but then that's another issue altogether, the great majority of the people who would join the forums are only there for the convenient raocow discussion, the only way to make them interested in the forums themselves is by organizing group projects, initiative, that sort of stuff
but then, raocow is right, we are a bunch of lazy fucks/trolls
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
I will disagree with this one pretty strongly. Don't take away commenting on videos because that won't make people join here. In fact, it annoys me when I see some LPs from SA that do this. I know most people think Youtube comments suck, but why stop them? They're participating in their own way.Thissa wrote: Here's my suggestions:
- Petition raocow to disable comments on Youtube, making Talkhaus the de-facto place to discuss them. He's not going to lose any viewership, the casual commenters who don't have anything constructive to add aren't going to bother registering for a forum, and those who want serious discussion are going to jump over.
I do think there needs to be a better registry system implemented though, but again, nothing that can let bots sneak through as often as they were.
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Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
I don't know if disabling comments would help much. it's like, do people care so much that they would sign up, or would people just then do nothing about it ie less response for videos.Thissa wrote:Here's my suggestions:
- Petion raocow to disable comments on Youtube, making Talkhaus the de-facto place to discuss them. He's not going to lose any viewership, the casual commenters who don't have anything constructive to add aren't going to bother registering for a forum, and those who want serious discussion are going to jump over.
Plus, it would no doubt attract [at least some] people to sign up solely to complain about it. Which is good...if your only goal is to have people sign up.
"oh no my best friend was replaced by a evil demon shadow monster"
"argh i am the evil shadow monster demon shadow"
Vip is pronounced "Beep"
nostalgic realtime nitroid let's play playlist
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
I'm against getting rid of the IRC (even if it was possible) too because it would most likely only do bad for the forums.
I think a step in the right direction would be getting someone who exists to manage the technical side of the forums. Other than that, talkhaus enthusiasts should just make many colorful posts.
I think a step in the right direction would be getting someone who exists to manage the technical side of the forums. Other than that, talkhaus enthusiasts should just make many colorful posts.
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
get those guys in the lets play forum into the goddamn gazebo
and get some good topics in the gazebo
(here I'll start)
and get some good topics in the gazebo
(here I'll start)
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
Yeah one thing that could be done in a hypothetical raocow-plug is mention that hey, forums exist outside of the two LP stickies in Let's Play. Because there's apparently still a modicum of activity in there. I don't know, I never look
Re: 1% of the Users Control 43% of the Posts: Fixing the Forums
I thought thats where a lot of the forum activity was.