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Human Coning

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Corbin
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Human Coning

Post by Corbin »

Personally, I'm against starting such a program no matter what the purpose, but I feel that it's inevitable and I would want there to be laws in place ahead of time to make sure that anyone born from such a program would be a person rather than a corperation's private property or a weapon of war.

What are your thoughts?
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RobinLSL
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Re: Human Coning

Post by RobinLSL »

Well, cones are alright. Sure, most people who study math hate them just like any other quadric (Is x^2-y^2+5z^2+5xy-2y+3 a cone or an ellipsoid? I personally don't care. Discriminate how you want), but hey, ice cream cones are pretty good! The strawberry-flavoured Extrême (see here) tastes just like love.

As far as human coning though, I'm not so sure, the taste wouldn't be so good. Yeah, such a program wouldn't be a good idea.



Sorry, I just couldn't stop myself :mrgreen:
Punisher
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Punisher »

What do you have against coning? I might be a cone. Ever think of that? >:
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freelop
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Re: Human Coning

Post by freelop »

You guys are mean, this was clearly an honest spelling mistake.

Human conning is a bad thing as someone is always hurt by it.

It is sadly always an inevitability as there will always be those wanting to trick others . We should stick to conning only animals (Stupid horses pulling our wagons)
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limepie20
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Re: Human Coning

Post by limepie20 »

I don't think there's anything wrong with human conning. The benefit outweighs the cost.
Last edited by limepie20 13 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Falky
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Falky »

freelop wrote:Human conning is a bad thing as someone is always hurt by it.
What about simple bar bets? No harm done there, surely?
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Dollop of Mayo
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Dollop of Mayo »

<jerk> Of COURSE Walter Koenig is human! HE WAS CHEKOV, THE MOST HUMAN OF ALL THE STAR TREK CHARACTERS (except maybe McCoy) </jerk>

I fully embrace the idea of cloning human replacement organs for the benefit of people who would otherwise be on incredibly, and sometimes fatally, long wait lists.

The idea of cloning a full human being is of course a whole other kettle of fish.

To create a human being is to take responsibility for its creation : when it is born, in whatever capacity that birth takes place (currently restricted to natural childbirth producing an infant) the parents (currently restricted to one or more human beings that have participated in a process of impregnation typically involving sexual intercourse but more frequently involving artificial insemination) take up a responsibility to RAISE that child. To provide for their physical, mental, and emotional well being as best as they can.

Without pre-programming, though, which I believe will occur long after we are able to successfully and reliably clone another human being, you will always produce what is essentially an infant, even if not bodily.

To produce a new human being that physically resembles a fully-grown adult still brings with it the idea of needing to educate it from day one. You're going to have an adult that needs to be hand-fed and who will still need to learn extremely basic things like how to walk, how to talk, and hell, how to go to the bathroom in a way that doesn't involve diapers. And it's going to be harder for a variety of reasons.

An infant has little ability to affect its surroundings; in part because it lacks understanding, but largely because it lacks the physical strength to do so. You should be happy your baby just cries at the top of its lungs when it sees something it doesn't like, instead of lashing out at it and damaging him or herself AND the object in question, which could be fragile and irreplacable, a harmful chemical substance, or even another living being.

Imagine if your "infant" has the strength of a full-grown human being and they get spooked by your cat and snap its neck. Or the cat retaliates against your clumsy man-baby, injuring him or her in the process.

At the risk of lengthening an already overlong thought, I'll leave it at that and skip to the point where we are able to program and utilize cloned human beings for other purposes.

This is, of course, a huge moral gray area.

You could use cloned humans for many things, but what people would really want them used for is to perform more difficult tasks than they themselves would care to perform, not limited to military, industrial, athletic, exploratory, experimental, and even sexual tasks.

This falls into the exact same category of conflicted ethics as artificial intelligences. Most problematic of course, is that we can only currently speculate on what we would do with AI's or cloned human beings. Where do we draw the line on how we utilize these beings?

What it comes down to is that if you use a truly self-aware being to do something you don't want to, it is slavery. That's not really debatable. Humans have used other humans, often of different tribal/national/racial/ethnic/moral backgrounds as themselves, but just as frequently you can find examples of people as much as using their own children as slave labor.

SO, if we are to utilize clones as slave labor, do we "justify" it by programming them to not be truly self-aware? If so we are essentially creating flesh and blood robots; we already have robots that can do simple tasks in the world of today. We program a device to do something, and it performs that task so long as we desire it to or it breaks down.

If we could program clones like this, it would certainly FEEL wrong to a lot of people. Myself included.

And yet, sending programmed clones to fight wars, to explore dangerous areas, etc, sure sounds better than sending people who have their own lives and minds to do it, right? You could produce 1,000 soldier clones that go to die for you who have no friends or family to mourn their deaths, or you could send 1,000 men who have had a minimum of 18 years to develop themselves and their relationships, who would almost certainly be mourned by at least a handful of other people should they perish. And you can't get those guys back... or can you? Can a person be made effectively immortal through copying their memories and transferring them to new, healthy bodies? That could be another 1,000 words; another 1,000 pages written by somebody with more insight than myself.

I'm no precognate but I personally feel that we will have robots that can do all the things cloned human beings could before we are able to fully program cloned minds. In that light society will probably not even have to worry about having to make the decision on whether it's "right" to use clones to do unpleasant tasks in their place.

If that day comes I do not envy those that will have to look a clone in the eye and tell them that they are less than human, despite appearances. Even if the clone responds with an agreement, will that be enough?

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ultratowel112
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Re: Human Coning

Post by ultratowel112 »

DancingMad wrote:Stuff
Who said anything about human cloning? This thread is either about human coning or human conning, we aren't sure which. The picture at the end of your post does fit in with the human coning portion of the thread, so you didn't fail completely. Read the thread before posting in it to see what it is about next time. It will save you from looking like an idiot who did a chemistry experiment for a history project.

tl:dr: Read the thread before posting.
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Dollop of Mayo
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Dollop of Mayo »

tl;dr Image
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tatanga
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Re: Human Coning

Post by tatanga »

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I am for human coning. Human-traffic cone hybrids provide intelligent and easier-to-move tools to direct traffic and will decrease the amount of construction worker deaths on roads that need improvement.
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Rameau's Nephew
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Rameau's Nephew »

DancingMad wrote:how to go to the bathroom in a way that doesn't involve diapers.
Wait, the what now?
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Dollop of Mayo
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Dollop of Mayo »

Rameau's Nephew wrote:
DancingMad wrote:how to go to the bathroom in a way that doesn't involve diapers.
Wait, the what now?
As in, not potty trained.
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morsel/morceau
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Re: Human Coning

Post by morsel/morceau »

Human caning? I'm all for it.

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Falky
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Falky »

SayAnything wrote:I guess I am impartial to human canning. I wouldn't buy it, nor would I offer my own body for it, but if other people dream to be on grocery aisle shelves, who are we to stop them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE
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RobinLSL
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Re: Human Coning

Post by RobinLSL »

Dangit, an I was going to suggest canning too! I got beat there.
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raocow
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Re: Human Coning

Post by raocow »

please don't cone my human
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RikunFrances
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Re: Human Coning

Post by RikunFrances »

Cones are pretty sharp, a sphere might do a better job.
Then you can easily transport people.
Even better, an egg, we can all be Weebles.
BTYM
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Re: Human Coning

Post by BTYM »

I'm not into the whole fanning thing
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Rameau's Nephew
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Rameau's Nephew »

DancingMad wrote:
Rameau's Nephew wrote:
DancingMad wrote:how to go to the bathroom in a way that doesn't involve diapers.
Wait, the what now?
As in, not potty trained.
What trained now?
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Dollop of Mayo
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Dollop of Mayo »

Rameau's Nephew wrote:What trained now?
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kilon
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Re: Human Coning

Post by kilon »

But what about woman coning? Do you guys make a difference between these two things?
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Argumentable
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Re: Human Coning

Post by Argumentable »

You're right. Humans and women ARE different
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