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Level tweaking and QA (next: JUMP v1.04)

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worldpeace125
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Level tweaking and QA (next: JUMP v1.04)

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

In this thread, I will post what has been modified since the latest base rom(currently alpha ver 1.00). Modifications are based on reviews/playthrough I received, and some of my opinions. Most changes are tiny, but sometimes huge modification has been done. Hopefully this thread will prevent possible stealth change.

Any suggestion can be posted here if you want me to undo a changed part, or redesign some part yourself(both mwl and screenshot are fine).


[General]
- When you touch a goal tape, coins will be given instead of bonus stars (because there is no bonus room in this game).
- In the intro level(C5), the amount of lives is fixed.


[w1]
Introduction to Ledges and Edges
Copied from the main thread:
worldpeace125 wrote:Introduction to Ledges and Edges
- 105: Screen 02: Getting the second dragoncoin is pretty hard when you’re big. I suggest adding a second cementblock before the two turnblocks, so you have enough space to throw the blue block at the lower turn block (you might have to move the whole structure to the right if you do that tough, so the player has enough room to jump off the piranha plant)
> add one more cement block
> insert explanation: Throwing up blocks won’t break them. Similarly, shells thrown up will keep stationary.

- Screen 03: Blind jump that could end on top of the muncher or the chargin’ chuck. Add a cointrail that leads onto safe ground and consider replacing the chuck with a goomba/koopa or removing any enemy in this area.

- Screen 05/06: There’s so much wrong with this area that I would suggest redesigning the area altogether. First of all, I don’t think glitch abuse in 1-1 is a good idea. I wouldn’t mind it later in the game, and to be fair there are indications as of what you have to do, but still. It just gives the whole game a bad vibe if there are such things that early in the game. Second, the moon spam. Remove it. And last but not least the kaizo-like chuck jump that is very hard to pass by without taking a hit (at least you get a mushroom right beforehand), and if you do fall in the hole you get trapped/die. This is not something you want to have in 1-1, unless you want to scare off any player that is not from the talkhaus.
> replace the ledge with turn blocks
> insert explanation: To run over 1 tile gaps, keep pressing a or b.
morsel/morceau wrote:I vote to retain the phasing through the floor glitch in 1-1 as I think it does a good job of setting the tone the hack (at least for me - I am fond of this level as I was inspired to make my own level (level 1) immediately after viewing the video of it). There is no harm in explaining more clearly what is required in a message box.
I applied these to 1-1. Mostly I put some explanatory message boxes for some smw physics. As a result, the level seems to have a tutorial-like gimmick now and its mood becomes so different from the past.
Near some of these message boxes, a new section is added to let players practice.

In detail:

I just put this on impulse, given that raocow had a trouble with this diving board in his lp.


(1) Description for a throwing method which would be more stationary / (2) training with multiple coins / (3) application


About the floor glitch


About running over gaps. I believe the green switch palace also explains this.


(1) An explanation in case you "somehow" decide to carry the springboard / (2) training with multiple coins


Minor changes: the invisible note block is marked more clearly / falling into the pit brings you back.


After you hit the message box, the springboard appears from above. Also did this on impulse.[/spoiler]
Mushroom Ledge
- 102: Screen 04: It’s kind of annoying to get to the dragoncoin because the midpoint is right beforehand so it is almost certain that the player is big, which means he has to duckjump all the way to the coin. You should lower the conveyor belt on title.


Inserted a message box.


Monty Pit
- Screen 09: The goombas can fall off the edge and hurt the player when he tries to jump on the vine. I think removing the first one should solve the problem. The jump off the vine on the ledge is kind of tricky and out of place for this level. You should probably place the vine one or two block to the left.


Replaced the goomba with a mole which starts moving only when mario is near it.


Springity Sproing
- Gerneal: Give the player something like 50 seconds more on the timer?

(no image) Set the timer to 400 which was originally 300.

- Screen 12: The jump over the goal on the way to the last dragoncoin didn’t work for me. Basically what I did was follow the coins as I was supposed to do, but then walked back because I didn’t know what was up with those coins; ending up getting the goal regardless. What I would do is force the player to jump over the goal by adding a gap to the rope so the player has to jump over it. Also maybe it would be a good idea to add some coins at the end of the rope to indicate that the player is expected to jump down there.


Added a gap + indicating coins


Salty Roasted Peanuts
Peanuts - noticed you can still get Yoshi past the filter: run, jump off and on again near edge of screen (no action required)


Extended the sprite only blocks.
(level 1E8) - wall triangle has wrong tile under it (move edge to left and place correct triangle object)

Last edited by worldpeace125 on 27 Mar 2016, 01:43, edited 5 times in total.

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Ryrir
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby Ryrir » 4 years ago

It's good to see that things are still moving smoothly. I really like what you did with 1-1, it works a lot better now in my opinion, so that's good.

I wanted to ask a question about the intro screen. It is supposed to be an automatic sequence, right? In that case, wouldn't it be better if the player couldn't move at all to avoid confusion? I guess if you did that you would have to make sure that it works 100% all the time though, and with different emulators it might not be worth the risk... I think that the way it is now it's kind of unclear that you're not supposed to do anything.
Also, I know that this is really not top priority right now, but maybe someone could even expand on the concept, like make it longer or more interesting? And raise everything one tile to remove the invisible floor amiright guys
At the moment it just seems to be kind of fizzling out when the messagebox shows up, but maybe that's just me.
this is getting laundromatic

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morsel/morceau
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

worldpeace125 wrote:
I think I could still break this filter. For clarity as to how, see:
alpha0.01.zip

I don't think it needs to be fixed as getting an early Yoshi isn't a big deal (maybe a TAS could use it somehow).
dont wanna jihad no more

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

Ryrir wrote:I wanted to ask a question about the intro screen. It is supposed to be an automatic sequence, right? In that case, wouldn't it be better if the player couldn't move at all to avoid confusion?
Yes. I will insert levelasm for this.
I guess if you did that you would have to make sure that it works 100% all the time though, and with different emulators it might not be worth the risk... I think that the way it is now it's kind of unclear that you're not supposed to do anything.
If the automatic sequence fails on an emulator, it means that the emulator somehow emulates smw physics incorrectly, and some levels can be runied by this. I'd disallow such emulators if exist (simply by ignoring the fact that they can't pass through the intro). Still I haven't seen any of them yet.
Also, I know that this is really not top priority right now, but maybe someone could even expand on the concept, like make it longer or more interesting? And raise everything one tile to remove the invisible floor amiright guys
At the moment it just seems to be kind of fizzling out when the messagebox shows up, but maybe that's just me.
Like what you said, making a totally new section with novel ideas won't be considered if the level has no serious defects.
On the other hand, some levels having crucial issues can be benefited from redesigning. Opinions and playthrough will choose what to fix - If I saw that all people except one or two strongly denied one, then it's the case.
morsel/morceau wrote:I think I could still break this filter. For clarity as to how, see:
alpha0.01.zip
I don't think it needs to be fixed as getting an early Yoshi isn't a big deal (maybe a TAS could use it somehow).
I also think yoshi filter doesn't need to be strict, as levels which had been incompatible with a yoshi were fixed.

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

General
The enemies' names in the credits use the special world equivalents even though they're displaying the ordinary graphics. The ordinary names can be shown via

Fixed.

Some things to vet for:
-yoshi compatibility
-issues with particular power-up
-stuck for ever situations (e.g. top of the screen open + walk-though dirt)

To see what has been done, visit here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1445839341



[w1]
Introduction to Ledges and Edges (cont.)
- Screen 03: Blind jump that could end on top of the muncher or the chargin’ chuck. Add a cointrail that leads onto safe ground and consider replacing the chuck with a goomba/koopa or removing any enemy in this area.


Added a grey platform.


[w2]
Pipes in Literally Everyone's Business
Pipes (level 115) - music seems too loud compared to other levels? (even if volume matches other levels maybe it should be lowered a bit)

Fixed.


Beezos in the Trap
beezos (level 104) - fireball palette is bad (colour A,6 should be changed to the standard red one - no other palettes in the level seem to be affected)

Fixed.


Euphoric Mushroom Backyard

Changed the segment so player don't have to wait

- Level 167: Screen 0B: “Big Mario Discrimination” here. It’s probably difficult to avoid because if you made the gap wider, the player would be able to ignore the chucks/go over them. I still think that this needs to be changed though because the player has just been given a mushroom on screen 0A, so it is very likely that he will be big in this situation. Maybe you could find another way to make the poison mushroom compulsory for progress? Maybe Mega Moles could work?


Extended the platform + added water


Random Blue Switch
- General: Give the player at least 100 more seconds.

Done.


Aquiferic Pressure
- Level 48: Screen 01: Cutoff over the pipe.


Fixed.



[w3]
Snow-Covered Base Camp
star warps are not a shortcut? - moving from star world, I couldn't move off the several I remembered to try (maybe it's supposed to be like this)


I tried to make things more clear.

W3 movie house message - maynot (may not)

Fixed.


Siberian Precipice
- Level 107: Screen 02: When taking the upper path with the powerup and then following the cointrail to the grey platform, the red koopa will most likely block your way, making the jump impossible without taking a hit. I suggest lowering the koopas position a few tiles.


Made use of blue switch blocks for this


Fixed the section where sliding meant direct hurt/death.


Blue switch blocks to prevent blind jump


Blue blocks to prevent the situation similar to above

- Screen 07: The sliding koopa glitches itself into the wall.


Tried adding this landscape for natural looking(?)


Put a ledge to land on, because of (horizontally) blind jump


PEEK-A-BOO!!
- Screen 04: Glitchy lava.


Fixed.


Glacier Soup

Removed one of mines.


The Dumbest Cavern

Fixed the potential cutoff (could be visible when you're died by the lava).


Spring Green Spelunking
- Screen 01: Getting the dragoncoin is hard to do if the player is small. I would suggest lowering it one tile.


Made the dragon coin 1-tile lowered


Replaced the green switch block with a question block(feather)

- Screen 0B: Again, I think the bullet bill jump is hard to pull off. Maybe you could experiment with putting them on the left side of the gap? I think it would be easier that way actually.


Put gentle bullet bill shooters(custom sprite C0) whose speed begins at zero and accelerates.


Fortress of Koumei's Trap

Added no cape sign



[w4]
Horse Eating Disorder
- General: I don’t think the gimmick works very well. I was never, NEVER in any sort of stress during the whole time I played through the stage.

Made a green berry give only 5 seconds to players, added more berries because of it, and adjusted the number of berries in the first/second half to be balanced. Also put some decorations around new berries...
http://suitepee.snucse.org/image/d1/Level135.png

- Screen 0D: The yoshi-jump to get the dragoncoin is kind of hard the way it is now. Why don’t you put the coin in between the landmasses, so it is for one thing easier to do and more importantly the player realizes that he actually has to yoshi-jump there, something that’s not very clear the way it is now.

Lowered the whole section of it. The dragon coin is near the pit now, so yoshi jump will be obvious.


The Cave of Layer 2

Raised the midpoint bar one tile to prevent players from being able to get it when it's inside the ledge.

- Level 58: Screen 06: I don’t know, I think the sign is kind of misleading. The door doesn’t appear after the first pit of fire at all, it’s after the fourth one. Is there something I’m not getting? Anyway, I think the hint should be rewritten to make it clearer. Maybe something along the lines of “between two single coins” or something? Or “on the moving blocks asking many questions” or something? (Okay, I’ll admit, the last one is pretty dumb but my original point still stands)


Added a hint about the door.


When you exit from this pipe, podoboos suddenly appear in mid air. If you're on the third block, you'll be hit by the second podoboo.
Fixed the podoboo not to appear.


Palatable Perturbation
palatal perturb. message - milk - shake (milkshake, milk-shake, milk-[new line]shake)


Fixed.


Boiling With the Best of Them
- Screen 00 & 03: There is no way the player has the green switch pressed at this time. (Okay, he could take the other path and then come back to play the other route but that seems unlikely.)

Changed them into yellow switch blocks.


don't screw up, k
- Level 112: Screen 05: The midpoint doesn’t work correctly. It respawns if you die and reenter the level, and also if you fall back down the hole on screen 04.

Fixed.

don't screw up - empty message (some sort of hint about getting correct goal e.g. "I screwed up the end but be thankful for the walk-through dirt")


Added the message into it.


Spike Toss
spike toss 2nd message - Incase (In case)


Fixed.


Red Switch Palace
- Level 11B: Screen 07: You can get yourself trapped in the little room with the moon. Isn’t there a custom block that acts essentially an upside-down cloud? I think this would work here.


Added a muncher.



[w5]
Polished Pipeline
- Level 10: Screen 01: You can jump on the grey falling platform from the left side of the pipe, making the jump later impossible. I suggest moving it one tile to the right.


Fixed.


Mushroom Tripper

Fixed the column remaning glitch which happens when the scaling platform despawns.

- Screen 0F: This dragoncoin is very hard to get, in my opinion. Would it be so bad if you could see it from the start? Or maybe if you could only see half of it? I think it would be less frustrating if it would be moved down a tile or two.


Lowered the dragon coin one tile, and added red switch blocks in case you're too low to regain your height.


Removed the fuzzy ball above the chainsaw, changed the upper layer 1 object not to have cutoffs, and extended the line of the bottom chainsaw, letting you have less number of jumps.

- Screen 08: How is the player supposed to know about the vine block? Luring the shell further to the left isn’t something that the player does on his own, and if you don’t even know that the yellow turn block is there, it becomes even less likely. The solution to this puzzle has to be made clearer - Maybe add some coins above the yellow block, or make it visible?


Raised the turn block, and added a red switch block in similar way. Also made the disco shell not respawn when offscreen.


Shrinked the mushroom ledge because you can't sometimes avoid them depending on the chainsaws position.



Other Ryrir's reviews on w6~9 and recent suggestions will be applied very soon.

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

[w5]
The Ruins of Challenging Sadness



The problem of this level was that you're likely to keep getting a hit in the cramped space due to the unexpected diagonal bills from the generator. To resolve this, I put the target sign to make the generator much more predictable, though it's still pretty tricky to handle properly. For a consistent theme, I have the gimmick used in the second half too. Some sprites in the 2nd half are rearranged due to this.
Other small things are also changed, for example the ceiling above clapping chuck became higher (originally you can be hit by the chuck due to low ceiling). Coin trails are replaced to prevent them from being solid when p-switch is pressed.

In the castle destruction text, the word "uncle" was replaced with "lord" to avoid potential confusion.

edit:
Added a small structure to make sprite-only blocks clearer.
[attachment=0]JUMP_00006.png[/attachment]
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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

[General]
Ryrir wrote:
I wanted to ask a question about the intro screen. It is supposed to be an automatic sequence, right? In that case, wouldn't it be better if the player couldn't move at all to avoid confusion? I guess if you did that you would have to make sure that it works 100% all the time though, and with different emulators it might not be worth the risk... I think that the way it is now it's kind of unclear that you're not supposed to do anything.

Applied.


Moved the sign of exit number to the left (it's only applied to levels having 5 icons like the image).



[w1]
Introduction to Ledges and Edges (cont.)
Maybe you could add the duck-while-climbing info into 1-1


Added the obstacle and info.


Mushroom Ledge (cont.)
I wonder if other things could be added too i.e. spinjumping off certain enemies


Added the info box (not in 1-1 again)


Springity Sproing (cont.)

Added the info about L+R to enter a destroyed castle.



[w3]
SWITCH'S YELLOW, YO

Using invisible 1-up trick, I put a vine block that will appear only after you made progress to screen 04 where you have to make yoshi run(when you fail in certain way, you'll have no choice but to muncher yourself).



[w6]
House of the Holy

Fixed the hole sprite to aim to be centered under mario.


All the Way from New Jersey
- General: Some (if not most) of the invisible mushrooms are pretty much impossible to get. The amount of time you spent killing the enemies around it, scrolling the screen to reset it and then come back to actually get the mushroom is just too much, to the point where the player will just go on with the level without the powerup. I think it would work a lot better if you would replace them with actual mushrooms.


Placed coins indicating the invisible mushrooms.


Changed some of net tiles(near the wall) to act as vine. With this modification, grabbing the net while adhering to the wall becomes stable now.


THE TREES ARE DEAD

Relaxed big mario discrimination. Also put a hot head to give players the next chance faster in case they decide to wait.

- Screen 0E: A semi-blind jump. Maybe place some coins leading to the safe ground would be better.


Put some coins for this.


Shell Shrine
The level will be handled by lolyoshi.
lolyoshi wrote:
tweak the level with some of ryrir's suggestion or revamp the whole first half myself.


Shouldering On
The smoke effect was changed into Iggy's head for some reason.

Applied the code morsel provided to me.


The Green Switch
green switch - vital coins don't reappear after reset (change item mem. to 3, no track)

Fixed.

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

[w6]
THE TREES ARE DEAD (cont.)
- Screen 0C/0D: Waiting for the HotHead to circle the log can be quite annoying. Couldn’t you just place two of them on the log so that one would be always ready for the player to spinjump on?


Yes.



[w7]
Burnt Mountain Tango
- Level 70: Screen 11: The blue switch blocks don’t really help the player, because you can’t jump from them to the solid ground to the right. Maybe adding another one at 2,283:25 would help?


Added more blocks. Since blue switch blocks had acted as a death trap(see the podoboo's trajectory above), I lowered the block to land on.


Left(before): springboard didn't spawn because of sprite limitation / Right(after): the shell in the scrolling pipe is removed to avoid sprite limitation

- Screen 00: Maybe add an up-arrow in the wall near the last dragoncoin? If you don’t know that it’s there, you probably won’t get it on your first try.


Added a grey platform instead of an arrow(I don't know if it's possible to accommodate the GFX of 90-deg rotated arrow sign).


Industrial Interior
- Level 114: Screen 10: The setup with the shell doesn’t work 100% of the times. It might be a nice idea, but I think you have to drop it. Or maybe put a multiple coin questionblock instead of a single one?


Put a multiple coin block.


Added a ledge because of blind spinies thrown by the offscreen lakitu

- Screen 15: I don’t think it’s nice to put the dragoncoin at the upper path. In my opinion it would be fairer to put it somewhere else, maybe after the two path reunite, just so you don’t miss it if you chose the lower path.


Put a switch block which also provides an conventional cape before the boss battle (maybe too overpowered)


Skulliloquy
skullil - got hurt while ducking by boo circle (apply boo ducking patch: http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a=details&id=11618

Applied the patch.


Root of Yggdrasil
- General: I got some slowdown because of the green bubbles. Is there anything that can be done about that?


Eliminated one of 4 skulls due to this.

I noticed some fun graphical glitches when Yoshi is dying in lava in Iggydrasil:

Inserted a code erasing a yoshi when it falls into lava.

- Level 3C: I feel kind of weird for saying this, but I think there are too many mushrooms in this area? You get two powerups from the previous section, and if you play carefully, the section isn’t that hard… I think you could remove one, maybe even both.


Replaced one powerup with a dragon coin.

- Screen 11: English isn’t my native language, but I’m pretty sure that the word “penetrate” is primarily used to describe sex, isn’t it? (At least it’s that way in German.) Maybe “activate” would work better for the messagebox.


I don't know but I'd better fix that.


Scaffolding Scuffle

Extended the ladder.


Toned down 'defend from lightning' segments overall; decreased falling speed and increased delay. The section where you had to spinjump was entirely changed as the image.


Bowser's Castle

Fixed the message.


Added 'display level message 1' sprite to inform what you're supposed to do at this moment.


Fixed the yoshi incompatibility issue. And with the generator block (suggested during lolyoshi's playthrough), it becomes obvious that the laser is shot from below(not above).

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

Boss battles - Morton, Ludwig
Image Image
- Made spinjumping on enemies not screw up the background.
- Fixed the OAM allocation of bullet bills which become invisible when you allow Ludwig to spit fires.

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

[w7]
Think Fast!
I may as well keep my old post in this thread:
For example, most(about 4/5) of people I saw had trouble with a level called "Think Fast!". Though the level's concept is pretty cool, it was controversial for requiring too much precision in cramped area, as well as for some unfair set-ups.
With the original concept in mind, I alleviated those precision and unfairness, and added some variety.



Scaffolding Scuffle (cont.)
scaffolding shuffle (level 4) - luigi colours in status bar (second half of row 0 should be fixed, doesn't seem to affect other coulours used in level)


Fixed.



[Star World]
Gourmet Hindrance
gourmet hindrance messages : Course1 Course2 (Course 1, etc - unless this is how it is written in kirby or something)


Fixed.


Pixel Perfect
I toned down the difficulty of obstacles requiring too much luck or precision which is not suitable for this kind of collab.




Guessing from my experience and lolyoshi's attempts on this level, grabbing a shell by jumping on the koopa is purely luck-based. So I changed the obstacle like the image. In this setup, you could still get the shell only at the specific moment when the koopa stops shell from moving. It's not natural that you shouldn't step on the koopa under the springboard, but it's at least determinate.


I made the falling speed of spring boards slower, with a little cute parachute.


All people who were talking about this level, said that this section was absurdly harder even than the level's other parts. The slower springboard made this doable without relying on a luck.


Judging from me and lolyoshi's playthrough, to reach the grey platform after yoshi was another luck-based part.(or I hadn't figured out how to keep the appropriate momentum) After this modification, you have to jump on the springboard first but it can be stably done.


The last obstacle becomes somewhat puzzling but can be done with less precision.


Shell Sitter
sell shitter - no message (instructions to take shell to jumping-off point)


I put a text describing this post postgame zone after "Shattered Dreams". Maybe I should also put a hint about the shell.

I heard the vine setup in this level wouldn't work well for dpads. That and Ryrir's strong objection to this level led me to think about the second half of GRASP EXCEEDER as an alternative, if author and all users here are okay with that. At least I saw lolyoshi beat this level without having any trouble in his stream.

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morsel/morceau
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

I think you should use a custom animation for the hurt block in Pixel Perfect, so that it doesn't change with the p-switch (in that case, allowing for any other level having used the block, it should maybe be remapped in level 136).
second half of GRASP EXCEEDER
I don't mind but maybe it's too similar to the level that replaced it? (and I should probably make a better version of it if it's to be used).
dont wanna jihad no more

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

morsel/morceau wrote:I think you should use a custom animation for the hurt block in Pixel Perfect, so that it doesn't change with the p-switch (in that case, allowing for any other level having used the block, it should maybe be remapped in level 136).
I'll fix that.
morsel/morceau wrote:I don't mind but maybe it's too similar to the level that replaced it? (and I should probably make a better version of it if it's to be used).
Maybe yes. But isn't it quite common in usual games that multiple levels share a gimmick which becomes more advanced in the latter level?
Still I couldn't even decide about discarding Shell Sitter anyways. It'd be good to realize your idea about having a bonus separated rom for those who clear 100% of the game. In this bonus rom, there can be 1) levels scrapped by authors themselves, 2) levels that weren't able to avoid modifications done by others due to authors' inactivity, and 3) levels that were rejected (surprisingly, there are no rejected levels so far in this project.)


[w1]
Introduction to Ledges and Edges (cont.)

Done proofreading(springborad -> springboard, an one-tile -> a one tile). Thanks to aterraformer for reporting this.


Fixed the duck climbing part so that you certainly cannot pass through it without ducking.


Since the duck climbing part is trivial to bypass if you have item filtered yourself, I thought it would be good if keeping a powerup would have been easier after that part (the muncher looked like a powerup filter). Now big mario can access the place more easily.



[Star World]
Disarray

Added a midpoint to make each length balanced (1 DC for each interval between midpoints).


1F8
I'm keeping in contact with anonymousbl00slust. The level would be more changed by him.

In the yoshi room, he said he's thinking of putting a sign showing that you have to hold down the A button after yoshi jump.
I think the main cause of the difficulty comes from the fact that you have to consider your horizontal speed when you do yoshi jump. The momentum is kept so yoshi can fly away into a wrong place. To make this easier, I put an asm code to make yoshi's horizontal position same as mario's position(like bowser statue fireball in sublevel 0AE), and it's activated only when you're not riding the yoshi AND yoshi's not on ground. Whether this modification is going to be applied isn't decided yet.


Fixed flickering koopa glitch which sometimes happen.


Added flashing arrows indicating which skull you have to ride.

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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

worldpeace125 wrote: Maybe yes. But isn't it quite common in usual games that multiple levels share a gimmick which becomes more advanced in the latter level?
Still I couldn't even decide about discarding Shell Sitter anyways. It'd be good to realize your idea about having a bonus separated rom for those who clear 100% of the game. In this bonus rom, there can be 1) levels scrapped by authors themselves, 2) levels that weren't able to avoid modifications done by others due to authors' inactivity, and 3) levels that were rejected (surprisingly, there are no rejected levels so far in this project.)
I'm not sure about the first point: it would be the only example of a reprise in the hack, for one thing, but you can best decide about it. I don't want to claim credit for an idea that wasn't mine (unlike raocow, who has stolen my idea of a relay level for nefarious smbx-rated purposes), so I will point out that it was aterraformer who had suggested an extra rom (B-side); my (much later) suggestion was to include such content within a special level of the game (I called it an in-game B-side, referring back).
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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

I kinda agree. Perhaps the best place for your old level would be an extra rom, if its plan exists. I'm not sure if we are going to have the bonus rom due to time constraints.

D pad users aren't as free as keyboard users in Shell Sitter. For example, you'll need to move left first to reach the vine, then you need to press suddenly right then up, to grab the vine AND to eliminate the thrown shell's momentum. Both must be done in a second. It's kinda painful to execute this with a D pad using only the left thumb. Perhaps it won't be that painful for the first or second time, but repeating this several times after every death will definitely be tiring. Now I'm worried if there are such "D-pad discriminations" in general in this project. (hopefully not)

I may as well change some obstacles in this level, like what I've done for "The Ruins of Challenging Sadness", "Think Fast!", and "Pixel Perfect". It seems we don't have any good alternative levels for this.

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Ryrir
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby Ryrir » 4 years ago

If I remember correctly, I had two main problems with Shell Sitter:

1) The shelljump was waaay to hard to execute, and failing it meant playing the whole thing all over again. If I remember correctly (can't check at the moment), there was a wall of gray blocks with a muncher on top, right? If you want to edit the level, maybe you could start by lowering the wall so that the jump becomes easier? I also remember that the platform you had to land on was in an awkward position, so maybe you could work on that?

2) The whole level is just so empty. There are no enemies whatsoever, and most of the obstacles (aside from the shelljump of course) aren't very hard to do, so it became just very annoying to have to do everything multiple times. The level is also relatively short, so once you do make the jump, you are almost guaranteed to win.

My thinking process was basically that in order to redeem the stage, you would basically have to redesign every single screen, so you might as well just scrap it. Of course, it can still be in the game after you beat Shattered Dreams, but... I guess from a design perspective it would also be cool to only have 1F8 after you beat Shattered Dreams, as some sort of ultimate optional final challenge. Now, if you really want to tweak the stage in order to make it better, I think that that's great, but maybe then it shouldn't be in the optional part of the game anymore?

So yeah, that's why I'm still kind of in favor of scrapping it entirely tbh
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby aterraformer » 4 years ago

I had the intent in the middle of my development cycle to have a JUMP Beta with cut, replaced, and older versions of drastically changed levels. I have a folder somewhere on my hard drive but I wouldn't worry too much about that now beyond resource collecting.
raocow wrote:the plan is to wait for Jump to be released and then replacing the graphics without telling anyone involved with Jump.
Image
Image

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

Ryrir wrote:My thinking process was basically that in order to redeem the stage, you would basically have to redesign every single screen, so you might as well just scrap it. Of course, it can still be in the game after you beat Shattered Dreams, but... I guess from a design perspective it would also be cool to only have 1F8 after you beat Shattered Dreams, as some sort of ultimate optional final challenge. Now, if you really want to tweak the stage in order to make it better, I think that that's great, but maybe then it shouldn't be in the optional part of the game anymore?

So yeah, that's why I'm still kind of in favor of scrapping it entirely tbh
I'd redesign it instead of removing the level in the overworld. Editing overworld and its events is a nightmare. I come up with a simple solution to vine and your problem, so the workload shouldn't be that much. Let me try the solution and see how it turns out.

Anyway, I said it's optional because a star will be given to your progress without beating any of them(*123). But to achieve two stars(**125) and perhaps to unlock the extra rom, you'll have to beat them anyways. The message about post postgame can be confusing. I'll fix that.
aterraformer wrote:I had the intent in the middle of my development cycle to have a JUMP Beta with cut, replaced, and older versions of drastically changed levels. I have a folder somewhere on my hard drive but I wouldn't worry too much about that now beyond resource collecting.
I have almost all previous base roms released on this forum, so it may be possible for me to get most of older levels too.

In case the extra B-side rom really happens, I've collected the names of unused (sub)levels that I remember. Maybe some levels are missing.
The Paradise of Jank (possible extra contents)

1. Scrapped or redesigned entirely by authors

[aterraformer]
Shell Shrine (sublevel): the first half (which is being remade now)
Scaffolding Scuffle (sublevel): unused vertical sublevel

[Desrie]
Disarray (old ver)

[Isocitration]
Stipulation Chamber
Miscellaneous Monument (sublevel): unused vertical sublevel

[lolyoshi]
Terrible Whiteness of Sadism Castle
PEEK-A-BOO (old ver)
Economic Path (old ver)
Economic Path
Spike Toss (old ver)
Bowser's Castle (sublevel): switch room
Just Patterns
Mine of Tenebrosity
Tactical Ambush Operation (old ver)

[morsel/morceau]
GRASP EXCEEDER
Bowser's Castle (sublevel): lava room (old ver)

[MarkyJoe1990]
Crumbling Your Problems Away (old ver)

[ravegg]
Tortured Cries of a Lost Grassland

[worldpeace]
Euphoric Mushroom Backyard (sublevel): layer 2 sublevel
Bridge Engineering (sublevel): puzzle for secret
Root of Yggdrasil (old ver)


2. Chaneged vastly by others

The Legit Ruins of Challenging Sadness
Legitly Think Fast!
Legit Pixel Perfect
Legit Shell Sitter

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morsel/morceau
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

There was the old balloon (b3), and the old perilous pier, the green switch (and the old boo battle in holy house). Was disco dance party changed enough? In bowser's, the cloud level is probably changed enough and also the old muncher snake (you could make a castle out of all these sublevels, with the hard first version of the final boss). I'd look forward to playing some of those old levels now (I don't even know what Stipulation Chamber was).
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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

morsel/morceau wrote:There was the old balloon (b3), and the old perilous pier, the green switch (and the old boo battle in holy house). Was disco dance party changed enough? In bowser's, the cloud level is probably changed enough and also the old muncher snake (you could make a castle out of all these sublevels, with the hard first version of the final boss). I'd look forward to playing some of those old levels now (I don't even know what Stipulation Chamber was).
Yeah, I just forgot many of them. Disco dance party has a different second half. The old cloud level just ended at screen 08. From there I extended the level and wrote a code for fast cloud. The old muncher snake room had a diagnoal bill generator and no warning signs. Stipulation Chamber was the older name of Miscellaneous Monument. Sadly I cannot find any rom including it right now. At least I have a playthrough video of it:


Some of old levels are just easier or missing contents featured by the current version, and they shouldn't be that important.

It'd be great if someone is willing to plan and manage the extra rom so that we can actually have it. But it will require some efforts; to pick which content will be included, tweak each unused sublevel to be a full level(or merge multiple sublevels into one?), and organize overworld/castle/switch, etc.



[Star World]
Shell Sitter



Shell Sticker would be more appropriate for this level's name. I'd insert another message box explaining the gimmick, like

Code: Select all

These  blue cement
blocks    are   so
sticky   that  any
shell, spinning or
not, will stick to
them.
but sprite limitation didn't allow this. Maybe I could just remove that bring your yoshi message, and insert this instead.

Implementing the gimmick didn't seem possible with just a custom block, which gave me some trouble. But I had fun making this.[/spoiler]

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

[Star World]
Pixel Perfect (cont.)
[spoiler]
I think you should use a custom animation for the hurt block in Pixel Perfect, so that it doesn't change with the p-switch (in that case, allowing for any other level having used the block, it should maybe be remapped in level 136).

Fixed.[/spoiler]

Shell Sitter
[spoiler]I changed the level name to "Shell Sticker" because of there was no other method to explain the gimmick. But I've resolved the sprite issue due to message boxes, it's now possible to restore its original name "Shell Sitter".


Now the message box describes the mechanism. Texts about the extra zone after Shattered Dreams are automatically displayed when you enter this level.


Put turn blocks to make clear that you still have to carry the shell.


Recorded a movie of this level.[/spoiler]

1F8
Author's update were inserted.


[Special]
Super Grand Ultra Marathon of Finalness
[spoiler]
Super Grand Ultra Marathon of Finalness
- you need a cape to get the last one

Added switch blocks allowing you to get the dragon coin without having a cape. I'm just leaving the message because you will need a cape anyway if you haven't pressed any switches.[/spoiler]

Shattered Dreams
[spoiler]Final boss
- Made the red eye blink 3 times to give more reaction time
- Increased the reaction time to grasp the vine
- Inserted SFX for checkpoints
I would fix 2 or 3 more parts. But it's been a while since I made the boss, and the code is too complex to parse.[/spoiler]

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

This will be the final changelog hopefully.

[General]

- compressed the credits vertically, so the scrolling speed is allowed to be slower.
- gave different colors to usernames to make distinguishing usernames easier(especially for those having spaces).
- and some minor alignment


[w3]
New level was inserted:

The level's called Cave of the Jocks


[w6]
Shell Shrine


Redesigned one half of the level on behalf of its author.


[w7]
Bowser's Castle


Inserted morsel's tweaked bowser battle.


[Star World]
1F8

The yoshi part was updated by the author.


Recorded a video of the level.




edit:
anonymousbl00dlust suggested that the reset method of the special levels should be even faster(making delay as minimized as possible). So I allowed the retry prompt to immediately appear when you press A or B on death animation.

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morsel/morceau
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

I gave Bastion in Blue candles (I added the candle flame generator to the level entrances, set sprite memory to 10 and made a blue palette for the flames). Maybe it would be preferred to edit the background to remove the animated circles (as the mushroom power up becomes blue with what I did), but I don't think they should be left as they are. [Just noticed this animation is used on purpose in Shell Shrine, so I guess it doesn't look as wrong to others as it does to me.]
101.zip
Shouldn't vertical scroll be disabled in level F0?
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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

Good suggestion. I think the mushroom problem can be resolved by palette shifting.
Shouldn't vertical scroll be disabled in level F0?
Maybe. I'm not confident about that smash sprite right now.

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worldpeace125
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Re: Level tweaking and QA (finalization phase)

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

For users who are playing that pre-version now, here's what will be changed in the official release.
lolyoshi wrote:in AA, you can die by the layer 2 if you screen scroll when the pipe rises.
Jolpengammler wrote:I actually just noticed a thing in Bowser's castle.
you can get stuck in the second choice room if you spindestroy all the yellow bricks, you should change 2 of them into coin blocks or sth. in the final release
Nin wrote:I replayed my level and decided to attempt to redesign the final segment. Can I redesign it?
(more can be added here)

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morsel/morceau
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Re: Level tweaking and QA (finalization phase)

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

In the savestate, entering the star sends you to the bonus game.
Super Mario World (U) [!].zip
Did you disable any cheat codes? (I wanted to test the stars quickly).

This savestate shows a crash.
1Super Mario World (U) [!].zip
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