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JUMP Level Review Thread

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worldpeace125
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

B3 Update

About 40 deaths. It became more interesting in terms of design, but yeah it was pretty harder. I admit there were a number of mistakes in my playthrough though..
I think it's possible to set the ducking state to reduce big mario's hit box if you want. If visual incorrection matters, maybe it's good to use something like the HP system used in the final boss battle, then to keep mario small.
Some obstacles were hard to react(blind) when I encountered them for the first time, though maybe trial and error doesn't matter considering how hard some of other levels are. I damage boosted the magikoopa section and I think I was lucky enough to pass through it in about 5 attempts(?).
Overall hard but interesting ideas.
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

Ryrir wrote:Euphoric Mushroom Backyard:
- Level 10C: Screen 08: What exactly is the point of this setup? I mean it’s pretty neat and all, but it’s just kind of there and not really relevant to the level. If you wanted to give the player a mushroom, you could have just given him one, you know? I mean it’s not that it’s not working or anything it’s just weird because it doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the level.
- Screen 0A: I think this setup is a bit too tricky for world two and especially in regards to the general difficulty of the level. I think it would work better if you would remove the poison mushroom on the far left, so that the player has more room to navigate.
- Level 167: Screen 0B: “Big Mario Discrimination” here. It’s probably difficult to avoid because if you made the gap wider, the player would be able to ignore the chucks/go over them. I still think that this needs to be changed though because the player has just been given a mushroom on screen 0A, so it is very likely that he will be big in this situation. Maybe you could find another way to make the poison mushroom compulsory for progress? Maybe Mega Moles could work?
- Screen 0C: Again, what is up with the weird construction on the right? What’s the point of it? I don’t get it… Also, it is another case of “Big Mario Discrimination”.

A fun little gimmicky level that just kind of happened in the end. I liked it, it didn’t try to do too much or anything too crazy, but instead stuck to the simple stuff which worked quite well in my opinion. Sometimes it’s best not to overdo things. I am pretty puzzled about the two instances with the blue tapes though.
The weird tapes are functionally aimed for shell filters. I didn't want to bother to fix the glitch about invisible poison mushroom(link to the post) so I put it there. The second tape was a filter for the cave puzzle which is currently discarded. Actually I could make mushroom not spawn, and ask if I can use the graphic of morsel's throw block filters. I will think of it and you could give me more thoughts regarding this.

I will consider other reviews for which I can do something.

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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

worldpeace125 wrote: I think it's possible to set the ducking state to reduce big mario's hit box if you want. If visual incorrection matters, maybe it's good to use something like the HP system used in the final boss battle, then to keep mario small.
The first suggestion might be adequate for the purposes of the level; I tried setting a nozero value to $73 and it works OK, even although the hitbox is odd (particularly with the plant fireballs). A message explaining that you are in a ducking state might be a good idea, but it would destroy the layer 3, so it might be better you should have a message before entering the sublevel (if this is possible).

So, could you add lda #$04 : sta $73 to the levelasm code for the level and set aside a message in case it is possible; here is a stupid message:

Code: Select all

-BALLOON LORE-
Those who duck when they acquire a balloon will take on the characteristics of a duck (half-size of big Mario).   
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worldpeace125
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

morsel/morceau wrote:The first suggestion might be adequate for the purposes of the level; I tried setting a nozero value to $73 and it works OK, even although the hitbox is odd (particularly with the plant fireballs). A message explaining that you are in a ducking state might be a good idea, but it would destroy the layer 3, so it might be better you should have a message before entering the sublevel (if this is possible).

So, could you add lda #$04 : sta $73 to the levelasm code for the level and set aside a message in case it is possible; here is a stupid message:

Code: Select all

-BALLOON LORE-
Those who duck when they acquire a balloon will take on the characteristics of a duck (half-size of big Mario).   
Alright, I will do it. The message box will be placed once a hub for this sublevel is done(alternatively I'm thinking of resetting layer 3 when dialogue is off like how VWF Dialogue does, and the message box could be in the sublevel. Not sure if the task is easy)

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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby Ryrir » 4 years ago

Mushroom Tripper:
- Level 79: Screen 06/07: It is not very clear that the player can go beyond the screen boundaries if Mario is standing on a moving mushroom. If you don’t know that this is the case, these screens might seem unbeatable and it would be unclear what to do. I think the best solution would be to include a message box which explains that the player can go below the screen as long as he’s standing on a mushroom.
- Screen 0F: This dragoncoin is very hard to get, in my opinion. Would it be so bad if you could see it from the start? Or maybe if you could only see half of it? I think it would be less frustrating if it would be moved down a tile or two.
- Level 6E: Screen 02/03: It is unclear that the player has to go under the mushroom. You somehow have to make it clearer, because once the player realizes that he has done the wrong thing (staying on the mushroom to get down slowly), it is already too late – which results in a cheap death. Maybe you could add a way back to screen 02?
- Screen 08: How is the player supposed to know about the vine block? Luring the shell further to the left isn’t something that the player does on his own, and if you don’t even know that the yellow turn block is there, it becomes even less likely. The solution to this puzzle has to be made clearer – Maybe add some coins above the yellow block, or make it visible?

I liked this level a lot. Basically it was pure platforming, and it was done in a very clever way with new obstacles every screen. Pretty cool music too. The only downsides are the two unfortunate dragon coins, but I think these could be fixed easily.
The Green Switch:
- Level 137: Screen 06: This is kind of blind. The player doesn’t know that there are munchers below, he could just drop down without waiting for the key to go down first.
- Screen 09: It is possible to skip the detour to level 15E by standing on the key right next to the green pipe and keyjump from there. I think this is intentional though? If not, maybe you would like to fix it.
- Screen 0F: Just out of curiosity, it is actually possible to get that moon?
- Screen 0E: I would add some switchblocks on the way back (where the keyhole is now). The reason for that is that the player could potentially choose the wrong moment to get the key back on screen 0F, and he wouldn’t know it until he was all the way back on screen 0A, which could be frustrating. Alternatively, you could add them on screen 0C, when the player is walking on the ceiling.

Once you understand the concept of the level, it’s pretty fun. The puzzle was pretty complicated though, and personally, I wouldn’t have the patience for it haha. Pretty creative though, too.
Disarray:
- General: This level is another candidate for a second midpoint. The retry system in the second half is just way too punishing, giving that the player will die pretty much a thousand times. I would suggest putting one on screen 07 after the puzzle with the yoshi, because it seems like the level has a clean break at that point.
- Level 1FD: Screen 01: Kind of a blind jump there. Of course there is the arrow pointing in the right direction, but it doesn’t say how far exactly the player has to jump. I feel like a coin guide leading downwards would be fairer.
- Screen 01: There is no indication that these pipes are reset ones. I think the plan is to introduce global ones for the whole hack though, so this shouldn’t be an issue once those are added.
- Level 1FE: Screen 01: When the player first gets the midpoint, he is able to bypass the jump on screen 01 by using his invincibility frames. Maybe it would be worth it to consider not making the player big with the midpoint?
- Screen 01: If the player goes for the dragon coin, chances are high that the goomba will have despawned. Maybe you could add a reset door/pipe in this area?
- Screen 04: The invisible coin block above the cloud is too much. I would strongly advise removing it. I know that this hack has passed kaizo difficulty by now, but honestly, this seems a bit over the top.
- Screen 04, 06 & 07: It would be a lot fairer if these reset pipes wouldn’t lead way back to the beginning of the sublevel. I would highly recommend introducing a secondary entrance at this point, which these pipes would lead to. Maybe you could place this secondary entrance on screen 04 on the bit of landmass left of the pipe? I feel like the level would be a lot fairer this way.
- Screen 06 & 07: I have no idea how to beat this puzzle. The way I did it was drop the p-switch down on the muncher left to the thwomp and p-switched jumped downwards, but I know that this isn’t the intended solution. Could you explain to me how the player is supposed to get past these screens?
- Screen 07: As mentioned before, I would place a second midpoint here.
- Screen 09: This jump is too hard. I can see putting munchers on the ceiling, but extending them all the way to the right is just too hard. You have to be frame-perfect to make it, and without tools, it is just way too cruel. I would remove the munchers on the right.

Well… This level went a bit overboard. There are a few screens which are just too hard in general, but I believe that the changes I suggested would go a long way towards making this level actually beatable/enjoyable. It is way too hard the way it is now, but I believe that it could be possible to make a fun level out of it.
Gourmet Hindrance:
- Level 1E0: Screen 01: I would remove the small landmass to the right of the green springboard. The player has to actively climb upwards to avoid getting stuck on it, and I feel like that is something that shouldn’t be necessary. Unless this is done deliberately to avoid killing the player because he’s off screen?
- Screen 02: What exactly is the point of the grey block between the flower and the noteblock? Not that it breaks anything, but it’s just kind of there without serving any purpose that I can think of.
- Screen 0D: Is there any point to that blue switch block? Also, what are the red triangles doing there? Like the cement block before, they don’t impact the level quality at all, so if you don’t want to remove them, it doesn’t matter, but they are just kind of there. I don’t know, but if they don’t serve any purpose, why are they there?
- Screen 13: You have to jump on the fish on the right in order to go forward, but the other fish is placed in a kind of mean way. I think it would be fairer to separate them a bit more.
- Screen 14: Reading that message block will most likely kill the player. I think it would be worth it to but the message somewhere else, maybe even back on screen 10.
- Screen 15: It is not clear that you are supposed to spit out the shell on the cement blocks below. Right before that you said that the warning to spit out the shell would be blue coins, so how about actually placing blue coins on that ledge?
- Screen 17: I would lower the questionmark-block and the according ledge on tile, so that it is actually possible to grab the shell from the cement block above the lava. It just seems fairer.
- Level 1E2: General: The fireballs generally don’t only destroy the plants but also the green koopas which you are supposed to jump on. This only happens sometimes though (it depends on how fast you move forward and on how high/low you were when you released the fireballs), but when it happens it’s extremely annoying because you basically lose a life and you could have done nothing to avoid it. I don’t know if there can be much done to avoid this problem though. Maybe you could make the green koopas invincible to the flames? And add red koopas as distraction/on screen 03 who could actually be burned? I really don’t know if such a thing would be possible though.

I really, really liked this level. Yes it was hard, and there was some amount of trial and error required, but apart from a few instances, the level was very enjoyable. The custom gimmicks were well executed, new and a lot of fun, and the music is just perfect.
The Untitled Sky Level Place:
- Screen 08: The coin trail is at the wrong place for the second triangle. If the player actually jumps off the wall where the coins tell him to, he will not reach the ledge.
- Sceens 0C-0E: I feel like these last screens could be a made a bit more interesting. Now, it is basically just “move to the right” – I think what I would do is add some holes so the player is actually in some kind of danger. If you wanted to, you could also work with p-switch-only-questionblocks from the dragoncoin on screen 0D back to screen 0C.

A nice little filler level where pretty much nothing happens. But that’s not necessarily a bad thing, it is world one after all, and it does have nice graphics. It feels like the music doesn’t really fit though – in my mind, the level would be kind of calm and not so upbeat. But if all one levels have to have vanilla music, I guess it’s alright.
Salty Roasted Peanuts:
- General: The music is really unfitting. It reminds me of a calm cloud level or something, not of a upbeat, fast paced cave level. I would really suggest looking for something more fitting.
- Level 1E8: Screen 0E: It’s instead of its.
- Screen 16: Is the hammer brother supposed to be there? Just making sure.

There really is not a lot to say about this level. I wouldn’t consider this one to be one of my favorites to be honest. The footballs from the sky and the annoyingly high placed question/turnblocks somehow just seemed off to me. I don’t know. It’s really hard to point my finger on what I didn’t like, so I guess it just has to be personal taste. Oh well, maybe others will have more fun than I had.
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

Ryrir wrote:Screen 09: It is possible to skip the detour to level 15E by standing on the key right next to the green pipe and keyjump from there. I think this is intentional though? If not, maybe you would like to fix it.
- Screen 0F: Just out of curiosity, it is actually possible to get that moon?
Originally the detour didn't exist; it was introduced so that triggering koumei's trap (the invisible block) wouldn't make progress impossible. To get the moon, you must create an invisible yoshi at ground level so that you can warp to moon (yes, I'm a dick).
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

Thanks for the review. Some explanations..
Ryrir wrote:- Screen 02: What exactly is the point of the grey block between the flower and the noteblock? Not that it breaks anything, but it’s just kind of there without serving any purpose that I can think of.
- Screen 0D: Is there any point to that blue switch block? Also, what are the red triangles doing there? Like the cement block before, they don’t impact the level quality at all, so if you don’t want to remove them, it doesn’t matter, but they are just kind of there. I don’t know, but if they don’t serve any purpose, why are they there?
02: I wanted the shell to land on the grey block when players kick it upward so that they don't need to mind it. But apparantly, it doesn't always seem to work well..
0D: When you're too hurry it's possible to bump your head on the cement block above the vine. The switch block can save you from the case.
Those triangles let the blue koopa fall off the ledge. Some players might be frightened by the unexpected approach of the blue koopa when they are in the vicinity of the pipe. Just for teasing.
- Screen 13: You have to jump on the fish on the right in order to go forward, but the other fish is placed in a kind of mean way. I think it would be fairer to separate them a bit more.
You don't need to jump on the fish, and I feel it's actually an easy obstacle.
- Screen 14: Reading that message block will most likely kill the player. I think it would be worth it to but the message somewhere else, maybe even back on screen 10.
Huh? You're supposed to hit the speaker after having the green koopa in yoshi's mouth(so yoshi has the flying ability). I am not sure what you experienced there... Though I don't want to move the message back, because players might forget about it when the info is required.
- Screen 15: It is not clear that you are supposed to spit out the shell on the cement blocks below. Right before that you said that the warning to spit out the shell would be blue coins, so how about actually placing blue coins on that ledge?
I intended blue coins to indicate the place where you have to "launch" the shell instead of gently putting it down. Obviously you should not launch the shell in the part, so I didn't place blue coins there. Maybe I have to change the word used in the message box?
- Screen 17: I would lower the questionmark-block and the according ledge on tile, so that it is actually possible to grab the shell from the cement block above the lava. It just seems fairer.
If I understand what this means correctly, it's already possible.

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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby Ryrir » 4 years ago

- Screen 13: You have to jump on the fish on the right in order to go forward, but the other fish is placed in a kind of mean way. I think it would be fairer to separate them a bit more.
You don't need to jump on the fish, and I feel it's actually an easy obstacle.
Yeah, you are supposed to jump under the fish - I realized this just now. Fair enough then (:
worldpeace125 wrote:- Screen 14: Reading that message block will most likely kill the player. I think it would be worth it to but the message somewhere else, maybe even back on screen 10.Huh? You're supposed to hit the speaker after having the green koopa in yoshi's mouth(so yoshi has the flying ability). I am not sure what you experienced there... Though I don't want to move the message back, because players might forget about it when the info is required.
It is a detour though that will cost the player time. If you don't read the message box, you will be fine; if you read it, it will be very, very tight. I don't know, maybe lower the message box a bit?
- Screen 15: It is not clear that you are supposed to spit out the shell on the cement blocks below. Right before that you said that the warning to spit out the shell would be blue coins, so how about actually placing blue coins on that ledge?I intended blue coins to indicate the place where you have to "launch" the shell instead of gently putting it down. Obviously you should not launch the shell in the part, so I didn't place blue coins there. Maybe I have to change the word used in the message box?
I don't think it matters. For me the signal was basically blue coins = get the shell out of yoshis mouth. I think that the player will realize that you're not supposed to spit out the shell on that ledge, but some signal that you're not supposed to wait for the lightning to expire would be nice. I think it would be fine to put blue coins there to be honest, the exact wording of the message is not that important.
- Screen 17: I would lower the questionmark-block and the according ledge on tile, so that it is actually possible to grab the shell from the cement block above the lava. It just seems fairer. If I understand what this means correctly, it's already possible.
True, if you first put out yoshi's tongue and then jump afterwards. I didn't realize this at the time and thought it was impossible. Maybe it would still be better to just lower it one tile, so it will be easier/clearer?
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

Level 4.
The top of the level should probably be blocked off as there are various ways to get up there and possibly be stuck forever .
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

A zsnes recording of the level.

You should mention (or indicate graphically somehow) that lakitu can't be touched at all (it's natural to try to spin bounce on him). He doesn't disappear before the midpoint -- "Turn Off Generator 2" (sprite D2) should be used -- and the place he spawns after the midpoint seems awkward because he sometimes throws a spiny in between the plants (this could be intentional though). It's a nice, simple level, and I didn't find it too hard; I died a few times more than necessary owing to carelessness or experimenting.
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worldpeace125
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

56
Great job on this. I really loved that big boo.
I noticed one screen exit for reset leads to midway of level 56. Maybe it's intended?

e: Nevermind, I just realized there's an edit.

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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

level 7
During the first half, you have to deal with bouncing koopas in the cramped space which became known to be bad. And you might want to put another on/off switch around the middle of screen 07~0B. Other than these two minor issues, there's no problem with me.
In the movie, I was kinda careful so I waited the temperature to be near zero or 70 whenever I met a switch. But actually I didn't need to deal in that way since there's a switch for every two screens.
The fourth dragon coin looks pretty challenging to get without damage or death, maybe you need to bring a shell from a previous section?
As I said before the gimmick is pretty similar to one level in Bowser's castle, but you made it unique with ice theme and nicely executed the idea. Overall, good job on the level.

I guess you grabbed the old base rom that is in the first post. There are some resource conflicts when it comes to inserting the level into the latest base rom, but I will handle them manually anyways. But next time, you need to open the latest base rom(that will include your level) when you update your level or etc because all map16, sublevels, and custom music will be remapped.
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby Koopster » 4 years ago

I think movies are a pretty great way to give feedback. More people should do that!

About the cramped koopas: yeah, I agree. I felt that the level turned out kind of tight overall, in special the first half, but I'm gonna rework those parakoopas so they're less of an annoyance.
Switch around screens 7 to B: I'm at fault since I made that section with the thought that the player would wait for the water to freeze completely to grab the flower (and that may not even be a flower if you're small!). I'm going to add one right after the chains.
Fourth dragon coin: that actually is possible, but requires some level of precision - I managed to do it by waiting for the time to be very, very close to zero. I actually kind of know how I'm going to handle with that; could place the dragon coin before the torpedo launchers and put a moon where it currently is instead.

It's a good thing to be careful with the time and always wait for it to be as extreme as possible so you can take your time to play the level, but I didn't want to ask too much from the not-so-experienced player, so I didn't make that a very requirement (maybe except for the second-to-last switch?). I assumed that you (or the average player) would do that, though, since as you don't know the level, you can't really tell how much time you'll need to proceed!

I'll wait for the next base ROM to apply those changes then (and also to make the final sublevel slippery since I forgot about it whoops). Thanks a ton for the feedback and for everything!
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby morsel/morceau » 4 years ago

Misc. Mon. sublevel E1
You can get stuck forever here: after obtaining yoshi, make a disco shell with the yellow koopa and fly under the level to the shell display window.
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby Slit08 » 4 years ago

Hey there. I played a lot of levels for this hack recently. And there could be so much I would have tot alk about level wise, mostly praise for this awesome game but a few valid criticisms as well. However, since I am totally busy with other stuff right now I won't have the time to give individual reviews. I write some level reviews at a later time, but that remains to be seen.

However just a few minor notes:

First of all, I love world 6, the forest word. It has some very good levels with creative level design and it has a reasonable difficulty for the most part.
However, there is ONE level in this world that I would personally suggest to either revamp completely or simply delete it and replace with a new level: It's that dark cave level (New Jersey something in the title).
The thing is that moving at very, VERY tight and close space doodgng enemy projectiles is not fun at all.
The biggest problem however comes from the super small fences. Whenever you are moving on a fence that is too small I seem to get stuck on it for no reason and cannot move thus suffering some cheap hits. Even worse when you try to jump on these small fences and press up Mario won't climb on them but simply keep falling into the pit below.

So aside from some bad design it has these control issues with fences that are way too small.
Sorry to say that and please don't take it as an insult level creator (maybe you worked on other really awesome levels in the hack, I don't know), but in my oppinion this level is beyond salvation as the entire concept of dodging things with the least amount of room possible is generally unfun. I think the hack would benefit a completely new stage.

Something else I noticed is that world 9 is way easier than world 8. Sure it is super hard, but it's not Kaizo whereas some of these world 8 levels are Kaizo levels. I don't know if it is required to beat world 8 in order to reach world 9 but it would be a shame if people would miss out on the true final world, which is amazing (espcially Shattered Dreams, most of these rooms are incredible) because they are no Kaizo players. Just my two cents on this matter though.
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Re: JUMP Level Review Thread

Postby worldpeace125 » 4 years ago

Slit08 wrote:Hey there. I played a lot of levels for this hack recently. And there could be so much I would have tot alk about level wise, mostly praise for this awesome game but a few valid criticisms as well. However, since I am totally busy with other stuff right now I won't have the time to give individual reviews. I write some level reviews at a later time, but that remains to be seen.
Hey thanks!
However just a few minor notes:

First of all, I love world 6, the forest word. It has some very good levels with creative level design and it has a reasonable difficulty for the most part.
However, there is ONE level in this world that I would personally suggest to either revamp completely or simply delete it and replace with a new level: It's that dark cave level (New Jersey something in the title).
The thing is that moving at very, VERY tight and close space doodgng enemy projectiles is not fun at all.
The biggest problem however comes from the super small fences. Whenever you are moving on a fence that is too small I seem to get stuck on it for no reason and cannot move thus suffering some cheap hits. Even worse when you try to jump on these small fences and press up Mario won't climb on them but simply keep falling into the pit below.

So aside from some bad design it has these control issues with fences that are way too small.
Sorry to say that and please don't take it as an insult level creator (maybe you worked on other really awesome levels in the hack, I don't know), but in my oppinion this level is beyond salvation as the entire concept of dodging things with the least amount of room possible is generally unfun. I think the hack would benefit a completely new stage.
That weird interaction you mentioned is due to the nature of fences. The only normal way to get out from a border of net is jumping or moving downward. To grab the net, you need to be distant from the border(I admit it's sometimes finicky). If it doesn't seem intuitive, making them act as vines can be a solution. Possible powerup discrimination can be resolved by doing a duck jump before grabbing when you're big, which can be non-intuitive.
By the way I heard there's a control issue with a d-pad when it comes to climbing. Personally I haven't ever used it but I guess it's hard to alter the vertical direction while you're moving horizontally(e.g. right-up then right-down). Doing the aforementioned duck jump may also be tricky because it requires you to press down then up.
Something else I noticed is that world 9 is way easier than world 8. Sure it is super hard, but it's not Kaizo whereas some of these world 8 levels are Kaizo levels. I don't know if it is required to beat world 8 in order to reach world 9 but it would be a shame if people would miss out on the true final world, which is amazing (espcially Shattered Dreams, most of these rooms are incredible) because they are no Kaizo players. Just my two cents on this matter though.
The numbers for optional worlds don't have any meaning about the order.

With the current plan, world 8 doesn't have any relation to world 9.



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