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Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

The second SMBX collab!
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gameguy888
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby gameguy888 » 1 year ago

ztarwuff wrote:I feel as if the platforming near the end of Section 4 is kind of unnecessary filler and could be cut, but that's my opinion.
I mean, maybe. The main idea behind this area is to "persuade" people from just running ahead without going back for the corn. My hope is to give the player the feeling of "the level isn't over yet, and I should go back for that corn first." If I just put a door right there without any sort of obstacle, I'm pretty sure most people just leave the corn behind and go through the door.
The corn glow and the haze effects are definitely interfering with my ability to see where I am on the screen.
Honestly, I was only intending the haze to be a temporary thing until I got particles working. I can probably tone down the corn glow a bit more though.
The corn wouldn't spawn! It would only respawn after I died.
I've fixed this already for whenever I finally get a chance to update this level.
The one near the start of Section 5 was especially bad. Try as I might I couldn't get safely past him or kill him without getting hit.
This is one setup that I wasn't too sure about, but everyone I've shown the level to didn't have too much trouble with it. Throwing the corn up to that bananasnake's platform should kill him assuming he doesn't jump over it. Either way, a lot of the instances of the enemies you mentioned are something I'll look into.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby ztarwuff » 1 year ago

gameguy888 wrote:I mean, maybe. The main idea behind this area is to "persuade" people from just running ahead without going back for the corn. My hope is to give the player the feeling of "the level isn't over yet, and I should go back for that corn first." If I just put a door right there without any sort of obstacle, I'm pretty sure most people just leave the corn behind and go through the door.
Oh yeah, you're right. Keep it as is. It would be stupid to cut it out now that I think about it.
The one near the start of Section 5 was especially bad. Try as I might I couldn't get safely past him or kill him without getting hit.
This is one setup that I wasn't too sure about, but everyone I've shown the level to didn't have too much trouble with it. Throwing the corn up to that bananasnake's platform should kill him assuming he doesn't jump over it. Either way, a lot of the instances of the enemies you mentioned are something I'll look into.[/quote]

Oh, I didn't dare try to throw the corn, just in case he did jump up. Tried to use fireballs or shells instead. :oops:

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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby ztarwuff » 1 year ago

SAJewers wrote:Fish Fortress
Pretty good. You might want to consider two things, however:

1. At the beginning of section 2, extend the ground offscreen and place a block there so if a beet does go offscreen, it bounces back and returns.
2. You might want to recolour the flying fish NPC-203. I had a bit of difficulty seeing them with the foreground and background you used.
Pyro wrote:Tutorial Place Zone
Shouldn't there be a coin trail over the first pit? You know, in an arc to indicate that you should jump over it?

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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby Hoeloe » 1 year ago

ztarwuff wrote: Shouldn't there be a coin trail over the first pit? You know, in an arc to indicate that you should jump over it?
Speaking as a level designer - this is neither here nor there. You can add one, but show me one person who, when presented with a drop into the unknown and a clear path beyond it, won't jump over the pit. The pit itself is enough incentive, especially as jumping has already been required earlier in the level.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby raocow » 1 year ago

SMB1 didn't have an arc of coin over the first pit. Like there's tutorialising and there's hand-holding.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby Zephyr_DragonLord » 1 year ago

Yep... though it did have a hidden 1-up mushroom for those that jumped too early. Nintendo was really good at making the beginning levels back then. Some of the levels from the early 2-d Marios are good examples to look at, if you need a base for this sort of thing...

I suppose I'll step in for some more reviews now.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby ztarwuff » 1 year ago

raocow wrote:SMB1 didn't have an arc of coin over the first pit. Like there's tutorialising and there's hand-holding.
I could have sworn SMB1 did have an arc of coin over the first pit. Guess I was mistaken.
Hoeloe wrote:Speaking as a level designer - this is neither here nor there. You can add one, but show me one person who, when presented with a drop into the unknown and a clear path beyond it, won't jump over the pit. The pit itself is enough incentive, especially as jumping has already been required earlier in the level.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you in anyway. I just honestly thought there was a coin trail over the first pit in SMB1, but I was obviously thinking of something else that I'd encountered, possibly a fan made level for one of these projects.

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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby Hoeloe » 1 year ago

ztarwuff wrote: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you in anyway.
You didn't offend me, don't worry about it. I just wanted to point out why a coin trail isn't really necessary.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby ztarwuff » 1 year ago

Pyro wrote:Demo and the Goopinati
rockythechao wrote:Yeah, you had a hand in making this too.
A neat little level. The boss fight had an irritating little quirk, though, and sometimes I couldn't help but wonder whether it was supposed to be doing what it appeared to be doing.

First thing's first, let's start with the beginning. I couldn't help but notice that the CinematX kept asking me to Press V to continue but pressing V on the keyboard didn't do anything. Pressing down didn't do anything either. I also played with a controller and mashed all the buttons to find that it required me to press X or Y.

The P-switch timer noise also stops whenever I approach the sign. If i don't touch it, it normally goes on for as long as the switch is active, but the moment I touch the sign, the noise stops. Given that there's a coin trail slightly beyond that that can turn into blocks, I can imagine some players being dropped into the abyss because they didn't know the P-switch was about to stop.

I died a few times trying to avoid the urchins, but that might just be me.

Now the boss has a few quirks and I'm not sure whether its glitching out or whether its supposed to do that. There's a few instances where the boss is popping in and out of the shell in a way that looks really glitch. Not sure if that's intentional or not. However, the one thing that really irritated me the most was when the boss stopped, but then moved a few pixels to the left. I died a few times to that.


Not sure how many of those things are fixable. They're also kind of minor gripes. Great job on the level, though.
Hoeloe wrote:
ztarwuff wrote: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you in anyway.
You didn't offend me, don't worry about it. I just wanted to point out why a coin trail isn't really necessary.
Oh that's good. I got the impression that I had, so I'm glad I hadn't.
Last edited by ztarwuff on 12 Mar 2016, 21:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby Pyro » 1 year ago

ztarwuff wrote: A neat little level. The boss fight had an irritating little quirk, though, and sometimes I couldn't help but wonder whether it was supposed to be doing what it appeared to be doing.

[spoilers]First thing's first, let's start with the beginning. I couldn't help but notice that the CinematX kept asking me to Press V to continue but pressing V on the keyboard didn't do anything. Pressing down didn't do anything either. I also played with a controller and mashed all the buttons to find that it required me to press X or Y.

The P-switch timer noise also stops whenever I approach the sign. If i don't touch it, it normally goes on for as long as the switch is active, but the moment I touch the sign, the noise stops. Given that there's a coin trail slightly beyond that that can turn into blocks, I can imagine some players being dropped into the abyss because they didn't know the P-switch was about to stop.

I died a few times trying to avoid the urchins, but that might just be me.

Now the boss has a few quirks and I'm not sure whether its glitching out or whether its supposed to do that. There's a few instances where the boss is popping in and out of the shell in a way that looks really glitch. Not sure if that's intentional or not. However, the one thing that really irritated me the most was when the boss stopped, but then moved a few pixels to the left. I died a few times to that.[/spoiler]

Not sure how many of those things are fixable. They're also kind of minor gripes. Great job on the level, though.
Oh yeah don't worry, the glitch you reported is actually just what I tried to use to represent invincibility frames. CinematX is getting actor blinking soon (or maybe it has it already?) so once that's a thing I'll update the boss for that.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby Willhart » 1 year ago

There has not been too much testing recently. I assume people have been busy with other things though. I think there might be some levels yet to be judged though?
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby SAJewers » 1 year ago

There are two levels that need someone to approve it and sign off on it (though one probably should be in the unfinished levels table), plus seven levels that are marked as unfinished. Might be something for you to do.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby BillySasebo » 1 year ago

I dont know if this is the right place to ask this but i'm trying to make some levels for a2xt. I used to know the smbx engine pretty well but this PGE is giving me a headache. My question is: How do you make Demo spinjump in the testing setting?

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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby ztarwuff » 1 year ago

BillySasebo wrote:I dont know if this is the right place to ask this but i'm trying to make some levels for a2xt. I used to know the smbx engine pretty well but this PGE is giving me a headache. My question is: How do you make Demo spinjump in the testing setting?
Wouldn't know. As the testing setting is in beta, I don't use it. I have PGE open to edit, because it's much easier to edit with PGE, and the same level open in SMBX to test.

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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby Wohlstand » 1 year ago

BillySasebo wrote:I dont know if this is the right place to ask this but i'm trying to make some levels for a2xt. I used to know the smbx engine pretty well but this PGE is giving me a headache. My question is: How do you make Demo spinjump in the testing setting?
PGE's built-in testing in alpha state, how sayd Ztarwuff. PGE Engine - an application which implements gameplay in PGE side. PGE (completed set with editor, engine and tools) itself is a in-works game engine which going to completely success old SMBX Engine with completely recoded, free, open-source and cross-platform. Editor is ready to use as alternate editor for old SMBX Engine, but Engine still in works and to do a tests I suggesting you to take "SMBX Integration" config pack (also please take latest PGE from laboratory with fresh bugfixes and new-implemented features) which will enable direct integration to exists SMBX Engine and it's media and testing will be ranned in SMBX Engine directly (latest LunaLUA required or you will be needed every time open "_pge_temp_episode" when you want to do a test. When LunaLUA is installed, that episode will be launched automatically. Currently testing is implemented as generating a temp episode which will run alone level - a level which you going to test).

So, I think I will add notification message for case when newbies like you are will try to launch PGE-Engine based test from PGE Editor to don't confuse other people with WIP engine.

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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby ztarwuff » 1 year ago

SAJewers wrote:Dusk209 - Frozen Shell Factory (Formerly Unnamed): Replaced the snow theme with the theme in Frozen Phony Key Factory, changed the music to fit, pushed back the midpoint (it was a bit lopsided), slight change to the bonus area (swapped warps, replaced onion with beet), replaced a 6th raocoin with a collectable leek.

I'd signoff on these myself, but I think it's best someone else does.
I understand why you changed the background, but I've always found the Frozen Phony Key Factory BG to be a horrible strain on the eyes. To figure out whether it was the colour scheme or the way the colours were used, I mocked up the attached BG using the same colour scheme.

It doesn't hurt my eyes as badly as the Frozen Key one, so I'm presuming its something to do with the presence of large areas of solid colours. Could we use this one instead?
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby SAJewers » 1 year ago

Yeah, that'll work. Any other problems I should fix?
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby ztarwuff » 1 year ago

SAJewers wrote:Yeah, that'll work. Any other problems I should fix?
Nah. It seems fine to me. Iris can of course bypass the Goopa jump at the beginning, and of course, a Yoshi could help a player bypass the entire level. However, I don't see those as problems. The level folder does have a lot of superfluous graphics, though. That's about it.

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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby SAJewers » 1 year ago

OK then, changed the BKG and move it to the approved bin.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby Pyro » 1 year ago

SAJewers wrote: Bubble Trouble
Oh god why did you keep the secret exit????? The secret exit is WAY too dumb and convoluted. At the very least, shorten the section where you have to wait for the bubble vine for 15 hours. It's super long and tedious and almost nothing happens then. Also just destroy the huge hill in front of the keyhole in favour of just the keyhole, so you don't have to bootjump or fly. Also what is the p switch for?? It'd also be better to have a reset pipe to the beginning of the section rather than one to the midpoint. Rejected until that's fixed.
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I like this level! Approved. The only things I'd really recommend are A. you probably want to telegraph some of the earlier surprise attacks more and B. the invisible coin blocks in that one tree near the end were kinda dumb, I didn't realize they were there until I started doing blind jumps
Temple of Stupid
Really nice level, though I do think it's a bit weird how you're in the temple but suddenly you're outside. Might want to make the last section be inside the temple for consistency's sake. Otherwise really good, though the disco spike pillars were a bit unfair as they kinda came out of nowhere. Approved.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby SAJewers » 1 year ago

Pyro wrote:
SAJewers wrote: Bubble Trouble
Oh god why did you keep the secret exit????? The secret exit is WAY too dumb and convoluted. At the very least, shorten the section where you have to wait for the bubble vine for 15 hours. It's super long and tedious and almost nothing happens then. Also just destroy the huge hill in front of the keyhole in favour of just the keyhole, so you don't have to bootjump or fly. Also what is the p switch for?? It'd also be better to have a reset pipe to the beginning of the section rather than one to the midpoint. Rejected until that's fixed.
I'll just get rid of the secret exit altogether then. Was under the impression that people found the secret exit OK, just getting there was the problem.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby Pyro » 1 year ago

raocow wrote: this level is canon
I made a video for once woah

edit:

oh also
Darkonius64 wrote: Cliffship Canyon
This level is radicola and I really like it! No one ever uses airship pieces. Like ever. Approved.
SAJewers wrote: ping
As for Cliffship Canyon's placement, I think it'd be better to use Temple of Stupid as a base for the W3-1 castle and let Cliffship Canyon be the first level of W3-1. IMO it'd be awkward trying to shove a boss into Cliffship Canyon.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby SAJewers » 1 year ago

If that's OK with rocky, then we can do that.
Darkonius64 wrote: Cliffship Canyon
2 things:

1) You're using Sega Genesis music, so use the VGM, not the OGG
2) I would honestly get rid of the checkpoint room, and put in checkpoints at the end of both of the split paths, but that's just me.

EDIT: Wait pyro are you still doing video reviews? Might have a few levels for you to do.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby Pyro » 1 year ago

SAJewers wrote: EDIT: Wait pyro are you still doing video reviews? Might have a few levels for you to do.
Oh yeah I just suddenly was in the mood to do more. I can do some of the boss levels. I'm not playing Busty Cave until it gets its name changed though, that name makes me incredibly uncomfortable.
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Re: Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Postby SAJewers » 1 year ago

Don't worry about that one, since I don't think we're using it, unless rocky needs another castle level, (at which point it would probably get a new name)

Do the Boss levels that are listed WIP, then maybe to some the approved levels that don't currently have videos for them.
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