Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

[Willhart]

Post the music you want to use, and I can take care of it.

If you have time, can you convert these too? I can place the ID tags later myself.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxij3Y ... sp=sharing

Done.
BTW, are any of those XM or IT files or such?

Thank you. One of them might be. I'll have to look them up.

[SAJewers]

2 more to approve it. I've made it #3 on pholtos's list, and I'm sure at least 1 other person will look at it.

Oh my gosh thank you for bearing with me! I owe you a lot!

fix has been made, just waiting on hoeloe to look into a lua thing.

[ztarwuff]

Gourd Power - Lvl27MarkerMan
REJECTED

The entire level is too spammy. Bosses take too many hits to be beatable even with gourd power. The level is also far too long for what it does. As for using Kood and raocow, it's crazy difficult with those two. Also, what on earth is the point of having a pyramid that goes so high the player has to go over the screen?

Entropy Engine - sedron
REJECTED

I still have an issue with the layer movement. Specifically the change in direction at the spike wall. If you make the layer decelerate before changing direction, that would be much better. Also, maybe think about adding a few coin trails at the more extreme changes.

[ztarwuff]

Retarded Volcano - Straightflame
REJECTED

Too much enemy spam. I've seen some of the other reviewers say the level's too short, but this would be insane if it were made longer because of all the enemy spam. In order to survive, I had to do blind drops and even that was dangerous. Sheath breezes through this, though. If this level is to be made longer, the enemy density needs to be decreased.

Frightening Factory - Darkonius64
REJECTED

You didn't edit the link on the front page so I ended up reviewing the wrong copy. (I did review the new copy too, though)

Upon reviewing the old copy, I frankly can't see what SAJewers is talking about in regards to Sheath. The only reason Sheath should be filtered out is because you used one of Sheath's collectible graphics for the fire. If you had made the Sonic Ring the fire graphic, this level could be played as Sheath.

There is only one problem I have and that's trying to pass the first downward pillar in Section 4. Yes, as slower characters, it's rather difficult to pass that without dying as Iris or getting hurt as Kood. Think about the height of the platforms there. Do you really need those coin blocks below the pillar - given that it's obvious to every player that they don't contain anything other than coins? Could that bit not be redesigned so that the space between the pillar and the conveyor belt gives slower characters the chance to go through?

Also, I think the boss takes too many hits to be fun. Reduce the number of hits it takes. Music is also broken in a few sections.

EDIT: Hey, I found a little bit of extra time to test another level.

Shoe Zone 3 by Castlepokemetroid.
Tentative Reject - will approve if 3 no. fixes applied to level

• Place the leek exit in a box and against a black background so it stands out a bit more.
• Place a small coin trail in the cloud section so players will realise there's something to the left.
• At the very righthand side of the level, place a coin trail exactly where the player must fall in order to land safely on the moving platform.

Fix these three things and I shall change my verdict to approve.[/spoiler]

EDIT #2: It just occurred to me I need to provide some reasoning for my decision for Shoe Zone 3.

list=3]

[*]I didn't notice the leek and played right past it.
[*]I found hidden vine block in the end, but I ascended in such a position that I didn't realise there was something to the left of Mr Rabbit. His comment kind of distracted me, beause I had no idea the level was automatic and decided to test it out.
[*]Related to the leek exit. As I didn't realise, the righthand side of the level ended up like some kind of blind jump.[/spoiler]

[Darkonius64]

Wait what...?
Old copy..? Didn't sajewers edit the page and add the new level with the fixed folder structure and .Ogg music?
And also i'm pretty sure there are player blocks to filter sheath? Since you're supposed to play as Demo and the other? It's really weird because the downward pillars have been tested to be passable by Demo and Iris, i guess i'll make them slower?
And again, i can't use LUNALUA because it doesn't work for me, i redownloaded it 4 times and it just won't work, so i can't reduce the boss' HP, and even if i could, i can't edit the level for at least 2 months, unless something happens that lets me use my laptop earlyer.

EDIT: *shrugs* you know what, don't bother with my awful level, i have decided one of 2 things: make a completely new level or remake the entire level, i think it's better that way, i can make a simple grass level or something, because let's be honest, the level has been edited 6 times and i think that it will never get accepted, so if you can, remove Frightening Factory, it's too awful and bad for this collab, i am very sorry. I'll be sure to make a decent level next time, and without a boss.
Also the level has 2 reviews our of 3, and they're negative, so i think it's perma-rejected.
I just hope i can make the level and send it in 2 months, because i'm scared that when i make the level the submissions will be closed...

[ztarwuff]

Wait what...?
Old copy..? Didn't sajewers edit the page and add the new level with the fixed folder structure and .Ogg music?
And also i'm pretty sure there are player blocks to filter sheath? Since you're supposed to play as Demo and the other? It's really weird because the downward pillars have been tested to be passable by Demo and Iris, i guess i'll make them slower? And again, i can't use LUNALUA because it doesn't work for me, i redownloaded it 4 times and it just won't work, so i can't reduce the boss' HP, and even if i could, i can't edit the level for at least 2 months, unless something happens that lets me use my laptop earlyer.

EDIT: *shrugs* you know what, don't bother with my awful level, i have decided one of 2 things: make a completely new level or remake the entire level, i think it's better that way, i can make a simple grass level or something, because let's be honest, the level has been edited 6 times and i think that it will never get accepted, so if you can, remove Frightening Factory, it's too awful and bad for this collab, i am very sorry. I'll be sure to make a decent level next time, and without a boss.
Also the level has 2 reviews our of 3, and they're negative, so i think it's perma-rejected.
I just hope i can make the level and send it in 2 months, because i'm scared that when i make the level the submissions will be closed...

Okay, Darkonius, I'm sorry. No, this is not what I meant. Your level is fine except for that one downward platform bit. I'll overlook the boss bit because you placed the midpoint right before it. You've edited the level 6 times? That's fine; that's nothing. I had to edit my Episode 1 entries 9 times.

Don't give up on this level. There's still more reviewers. They may disagree with my assessments. Leave the level alone for now.

[snoruntpyro]

I was an idiot and forgot to record game audio for the last three. :B

The Tiniest Castle by Oddwrath [Rejected]
Starlight Resort: Grand Reopening by Karatekid5 [Approved]
Mountain Descent by SAJewers [Approved]
Soaring Sawmill by FrozenQuills [Approved]

ping

There's stuff in your level that I would like to see changed, watch the video please!

[Darkonius64]

Ah, i see Ztar..
I'll try to edit the level as soon as i can!

[snoruntpyro]

Desert Dash: Goopa Brigade!! by Louiejub [Approved]
Panic Attack in High Altitude by Axon [Approved]
Accident by Willhart [Approved]
A Day in the Life of raocow by Imaynotbehere4long [Approved]
DAMNage and Damnation by XutaWoo [Rejected]
The Post Production Void by Imaynotbehere4long [Rejected]

ping

Watch Post Production Void's video, there's advice and stuff in there!

[Darkonius64]

Desert Dash: Goopa Brigade!! by Louiejub [Approved]
Panic Attack in High Altitude by Axon [Approved]
Accident by Willhart [Approved]
A Day in the Life of raocow by Imaynotbehere4long [Approved]
DAMNage and Damnation by XutaWoo [Rejected]
The Post Production Void by Imaynotbehere4long [Rejected]

ping

Watch Post Production Void's video, there's advice and stuff in there!

hey so, even if my level is still missing some minor design fixes, are you gonna play my level too?

[snoruntpyro]

hey so, even if my level is still missing some minor design fixes, are you gonna play my level too?

I was actually planning to play it as soon as you updated it. So once that's done I'll play it.

Muwha by Franky [Rejected]
Blocky Interlude by yesimbill [Rejected]

ping

You need to fix Mangrove Cavern's music, it's Nintendo music and that isn't allowed.

[SAJewers]

The Post Production Void by Imaynotbehere4long [Rejected]

ping

Watch Post Production Void's video, there's advice and stuff in there!

FYI (was posted on skype):

Muwha by Franky [Rejected]

Double he's gonna be around to fix that 1 raocoin. If someone wants to, feel free to fix that.

[Imaynotbehere4long]

FYI (was posted on skype):

Nooo!! ...I'll change it.

The Post Production Void by Imaynotbehere4long [Rejected]

ping

Watch Post Production Void's video, there's advice and stuff in there!

Wait, does that mean your other rejection videos don't have advice for how to fix the level's problems? Well, I'm glad I got advice for my level. Here's my response:

0:27 That's weird; the intro never lagged for me. It's supposed to finish right before the intro part of the song loops; I even timed it so that would happen. I assume it was lagging for you since you had played a few levels beforehand. Since I'll have to change the song anyway, that will probably be fixed in my next update.

5:15 There was a wall there, but I removed it in case the player missed the jump from raocow to the left platform (even though I intended for the player to go down first so he/she would stomp the Furba and realize they weren't friendly). I'll put it back.

7:20 Yeah, I'm not a good artist, so I don't know if I can improve those graphics much. Would I post my request in the A2XT Graphics thread or somewhere else?

As for the leek tracking, I'll change the giant monitor (below the generator) into a minimap.

11:06 What's wrong with the Catobos? Also, "that one that's covering that position right there" isn't very specific. I assume you mean the one on the left between the lower lava and lava circle.

I'll also see what I can do about the up-stab area, bullet shield area, and the the spike section. (I'm typing this mainly as a reminder for what I need to do)

As for the checkpoint noise and the fact that the Super Leeks move, I can't really do anything about that without Lua, and I don't have the time right now to learn an entire programming language to fix a minor visual/audio issue. Hopefully, that won't be enough to keep it rejected.

[ztarwuff]

The Shrine Under the Sea - Validon98
REJECTED

In section 1 and 2, the water and the blocks of every water pit and regular bottomless pit needs to be extended offscreen by three blocks. The set of four item blocks to the bottom right of the first blue Goopa are too high. Lower them by one block. The jump to the item just feels too awkward, which is crazy given there's no reason for them being that high. The orange switch block allows someone to duck-glitch through to the other side.

I would have never found the secret leek if it I had not scoured the editor because the coin doesn't spawn. Also, I would recommend removing the secret leek altogether. The platforming at the bottom of Section 2 is awfully cramped as is the first jump to the first red Goopa.

In the lava sectipn, the saw moves away from the player far too quickly. I would suggest extending the path of the saw by one tile on either side. Also those Disco Dans near the end of the level feel really spammy. I would recommend removing one from each platform.

Normally, I'd say I'd change my verdict to approve if the aforementioned issues are fixed, but given what I've listed, it may require a second review before I'd be comfortable giving a new verdict.

Deep Terror - Harmful Gravemind
REJECTED

Please use proper item blocks. I know you've shown to the player that the blue blocks contain items, but I don't feel comfortable approving a level that has that going on. I'm a bit wary of the ghosts being unfriendly. Granted, I haven't been hurt or died because of them, but I fear what might happen if they aren't set to friendly. I personally didn't have too many issues with low ceilings like SAJewers, but they could be raised a bit. What concerned me the most was the Disco Dan spam near the end. I can just about live with the first set, but the last two pairs in the entire level exit are just too much. Get rid of at least one pair.

Once again, I'm not going to reverse my decision. SAJewers has also asked for a few changes so it will require a whole new review of the revised level before I'm comfortable about changing my mind.

[snoruntpyro]

boop

It's not that there wasn't advice, it's just I didn't feel like I gave specific enough advice.

The Catoboos made the lava area feel a lot more cramped than it probably should be. And yeah, you're right with what I meant by the covering one. Also yeah graphics thread is what I was thinking.

[Imaynotbehere4long]

Just thought I'd mention one thing:

The Catoboos made the lava area feel a lot more cramped than it probably should be.

feel a lot more cramped

feel

I mentioned in an earlier post that I wanted this level to feel challenging without actually being challenging. After all, it takes place in the last level of the previous episode. Plus, I remember hearing (from Extra Credits, I think? It showed gameplay footage, so I may be wrong)* that it's a good idea to make tutorials seem threatening without being threatening as it gives the player a greater sense of accomplishment when the player inevitably makes it past on his/her first try.

Basically, if that part only feels difficult, but in reality is super easy, that should be a good thing. I'll change it if you still disagree.



*I looked it up, but I can't find the video I was looking for. However, I saw an Extra Credits video that used screenshots of what I was thinking of, and I can say for sure that, in the video I was thinking of, the tutorial used as an example was from God of War where you have to fight the Hydra. Maybe it's an Extra Credits video I couldn't find.

[GenesisJames]

Thanks for the approval Pyro, but now I'm very conflicted on whether or not I should knock the autoscroll speed down one notch. XD I'll update the tiles to go off screen and wait for another opinion about the autoscroll speed, I guess.

[GenesisJames]

My levels have been updated. Everything, including a list of what was updated, can be found on their Wikia pages. Note that I did not change the autoscroll speed for Desert Dash due to some people saying that it was fine while others saying that it isn't. When I get more feedback on it, I will adjust it accordingly.

[SpoonyBardOL]

You need to fix Mangrove Cavern's music, it's Nintendo music and that isn't allowed.

Ok question: I just made some changes to Mangrove Cavern and Sea Turtle Sanctuary, but before I upload them how can I be sure the musics don't trip a Content ID? I changed Mangrove Cavern's BGM to something else to avoid it but I want to be sure.

I uploaded the BGMs for both stages to my Youtube channel and so far I haven't gotten any messages. How quickly can you tell if a BGM hits Content ID?

[SAJewers]

It can take months.

[Karatekid5]

ping

There's stuff in your level that I would like to see changed, watch the video please!

I made changes based on your review, and thank you for the review! ^_^

[snoruntpyro]

boop

Yeah, the changes help the level a lot, thanks!

boop

The update basically fixes all the problems I had with the level, changing verdict to approved! Also, the new music is way nicer than the old music in my opinion :3

[SpoonyBardOL]

It can take months.

Months huh? Hmm.

Sea Turtle Sanctuary uses music from Shatae: Risky's Revenge, which Jake Kaufman has available on his bandcamp site which you can choose to download freely or pay a fee, so it seems like it should be fine? The stage also contains a BGM from Star Fox 2 in the hidden section, but that game never came out in the first place so I don't know if that would be a problem (did raocow get a Content ID from the first place MaGLX video last year? Same source)

The new Mangrove Cavern BGM is from another game Kaufman worked on, but this one isn't on his bandcamp so I'm less sure.

Should I just update the stages anyway?

[SAJewers]

The other games should be fine, it's mainly the stuff by nintendo i'm worried about.

[WestonSmith]

Frolic - Rejected

Music – MP3 file. Please switch to OGG.

Level Suggestions – Too much enemy variety with no real payoff. There are Furbas, Skulls, Goopas, Mecahnical Bullet Thinigies, Ninji, Catfish, Chattering Teeth, Caterpillars, Plants, Fire Plants, Hopping Plants, and Hopping Freeze Thing (all off the top of my head). Almost all of them appear either once or as a pair. All of those in a level that is… what, maybe 10 screens long? I’d drop the Bullets, the Skull, the Ninji, and the Hopping Plant, none of which add ANYTHING of value to the level other than simply existing. I’d say cull even further, then fill in the new dead space with the remaining enemy types. I’d also suggest adding a custom background, something to help the level stand out visually. A custom tile set could help, but might be too much work. Oh, and you use two different water graphics for some strange reason. I’d suggest using just one.

Thoughts – I enjoyed it. It just doesn’t do anything to stand out, besides the music (which is really nice). So the question is, do I accept it because it does nothing wrong, or reject it because I feel you could take it up another level in terms of quality? There have been a few levels where I’ve felt like this, and I believe I’ve wish washed on whether that is acceptable grounds for rejection. In this case, I’m going to reject the level. But I strongly encourage you to give this one a look over, make some improvements, and tell me when you’re done so I can re-review it, because I really WANT to see it in the final game, just in a less raw state.

Muffin Bluff - Approved

Level Suggestions – Move the P-Switch block down one tile, as it’s a pain for Sheath to get to. May want to increase the volume on your song, as it can be touch hard to hear.

Thoughts – It’s pleasant. Despite having somewhere around eight different enemy types, none of them feel out of place of underused. Rather, everything seems well put together, as if every object and NPC has a purpose. Even the vanilla graphics feel interesting here. This is a MAJOR improvement over the previous level/version you submitted. Approved.

What About Railways - Rejected - Played an outdated version, ignore me

Thoughts – Did not complete level. Lack of midpoints is a deal breaker for me. Level felt very much like I was “watching it” rather than “playing it.” I ducked and did nothing up until the Ninja section. Then I died non-stop, as jumping is seemingly a death wish, as was ducking. And getting back to that part, while easy, was incredibly boring. I apparently just suck (since the others approved it no problem), but this one caused me to throw my hands up and give in.

Soaring Sawmill - Approved

File Name – No issues.

Characters – Did not test with Sheath. She probably can trivialize the secret exit.

Sacks – Can completely trivialize the secret exit.

Cat Llamas – Can completely trivialize the secret exit.

Level Suggestions – The plank surfing felt woefully underutilized. Might benefit from custom music, but what’s there is fine.

Thoughts – Love this level. Difficult but fun. Can’t suggest any serious changes. There are enough cool ideas here that it might warrant a sequel level. Well put together, probably one of the best levels I’ve played yet.