Episode 2 Level Review and Testing Discussion

Sharenite · Post by **SAJewers** » 8 years ago

Franky wrote:Alright it's fixed. Meta data? I added a text file with the song info. Where's the wiki? My net is out currently.

Still need to know where your music is from.

Wiki is http://asmbxt.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Fun ... &redlink=1 Add your info there in an infobox if you can. Also, music should be in OGG Vorbis, not MP3.

Awakenyourmind · Post by **Awakenyourmind** » 8 years ago

It's from Suikoden tierkries for the ds. I'll get the info up tomorrow. Hope they have an ogg of that song.

ztarwuff · Post by **ztarwuff** » 8 years ago

Franky wrote:It's from Suikoden tierkries for the ds. I'll get the info up tomorrow. Hope they have an ogg of that song.

The best thing to do is convert it using the free program, Audacity. Drop your music file into the program, then Export audio to OGG.

That way, you can insert the tag information. Bare minimum information you need is the highlighted fields in the snapshot below.

: snapshot.PNG (24.2 KiB) Viewed 4977 times

On an unrelate note...

SAJewers wrote:ping

Once a level is accepted, is it too late to do a few cosmetic changes? I'm thinking of making a few changes to make it more obvious that Ups and Downs of a Demo is supposed to take place in a research facility.

Sharenite · Post by **SAJewers** » 8 years ago

Yeah, go ahead. Just drop the updated level in the OneDrive Folder

Sharenite · Post by **SAJewers** » 8 years ago

Franky wrote:It's from Suikoden tierkries for the ds. I'll get the info up tomorrow. Hope they have an ogg of that song.

Don't worry, I've taken care of it.

Awakenyourmind · Post by **Awakenyourmind** » 8 years ago

You've done that? So I just upload the updates file?

Sharenite · Post by **SAJewers** » 8 years ago

OGG is right there. Just throw that in, change your music to that, and upload your fix.

Post by **FrozenQuills** » 8 years ago

EntropyRogue wrote:Overgrown Underground

Rejected

Unanium wrote:ANMT

Approved

Unanium wrote:Claustrophobia

Approved

SAJewers wrote:Side Crawler's Climb

Approved

ztarwuff · Post by **ztarwuff** » 8 years ago

Iceblock Drop - WestonSmith
REJECT - May approve if a few changes made.

It's actually quite a decent level and I'm loathe to reject it outright based on a few minor issues. If they're fixed, I'll happily approve this level.

WestonSmith wrote:Ice Block Drop (5th Submission)
Wiki Page

ztarwuff wrote:Wiki Review
I made further adjustments if you'd like to take a second look at this one. At this point though, the level might be worth yanking from the submission list in place of another "snow/ice" level. It's quality trajectory continues to point towards "meh," which is essentially unacceptable in a collab project where everyone should be bringing their A game.

I didn't expect you to get rid of the snow altogether, but it's actually for the best. That background is really nice and it's a shame to obscure it.

Verdict changed - level accepted.

WestonSmith · Post by **WestonSmith** » 8 years ago

ztarwuff wrote:
I didn't expect you to get rid of the snow altogether, but it's actually for the best. That background is really nice and it's a shame to obscure it.

Verdict changed - level accepted.

Well, the snow is there, just hid the layer. If you look at the SNOW layer, it looks all sorts of stupid, but then having the MORE SNOW layer leads to the visual "too muchiness" (real term, not a real quote). As it is, I'll leave it snow-less unless I can find a way to make the snow work.

ztarwuff · Post by **ztarwuff** » 8 years ago

WestonSmith wrote:
ztarwuff wrote:
I didn't expect you to get rid of the snow altogether, but it's actually for the best. That background is really nice and it's a shame to obscure it.

Verdict changed - level accepted.
Well, the snow is there, just hid the layer. If you look at the SNOW layer, it looks all sorts of stupid, but then having the MORE SNOW layer leads to the visual "too muchiness" (real term, not a real quote). As it is, I'll leave it snow-less unless I can find a way to make the snow work.

Also, don't feel too bad about the level. It's a good level.

Mabel wrote:Hidden Switch Palace:

REJECTED

Crash Log

I would highly recommend trimming the level.

Post by **FrozenQuills** » 8 years ago

Unanium wrote:It is 5 AM

Approved

arabsalmon wrote:Bog Standard

No Judgement Yet

Post by **snoruntpyro** » 8 years ago

arabsalmon wrote:ping

cramps-man wrote:ping

Break the Needle Cyclops by 128-Up [Rejected]
Bog Standard by arabsalmon [Rejected]
It is 5 AM by Unaniem [Approved]
Side Crawler's Climb by SAJewers [Approved]
Overgrown Underground by EntropyRogue [Rejected]
Sky Block Castle by cramps-man [Approved]

ztarwuff · Post by **ztarwuff** » 8 years ago

Franky wrote:Desert Fun

REJECTED

Of the points I've mentioned in my rejection, only 1, 3 and 5 need to be fixed before this can go into the game.

EDIT: Okay, I just went to edit the wiki page to add my review, when I noticed a few screwy things going on with the wiki page.
1: The link to Pyro's review goes to a a video that doesn't exist.
2. SAJewer's review links to a little post thread where you said you fixed both the mp3 and the Sheath powerup issue, but every link I've found so far links to the old copy. So where's the new copy of the level?

Sharenite · Post by **SAJewers** » 8 years ago

ztarwuff wrote: 2. SAJewer's review links to a little post thread where you said you fixed both the mp3 and the Sheath powerup issue, but every link I've found so far links to the old copy. So where's the new copy of the level?

viewtopic.php?p=341114#p341114

Franky wrote:https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkppjqo3u582n ... d.zip?dl=0
Fixed version, thanks for the help SAjewers!

#1 and #5 were already fixed.

Post by **snoruntpyro** » 8 years ago

ztarwuff wrote: 1: The link to Pyro's review goes to a a video that doesn't exist.

Oh oops my bad. I uploaded the wrong file at first, but WestonSmith caught it and I deleted the video and changed the link in this thread. I forgot to change the wiki link, though. Thanks for pointing it out!

Post by **Hoeloe** » 8 years ago

Pyro wrote:Peaceful Snowy Night

Approved

ztarwuff · Post by **ztarwuff** » 8 years ago

SAJewers wrote:
ztarwuff wrote: 2. SAJewer's review links to a little post thread where you said you fixed both the mp3 and the Sheath powerup issue, but every link I've found so far links to the old copy. So where's the new copy of the level?
viewtopic.php?p=341114#p341114

Franky wrote:https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkppjqo3u582n ... d.zip?dl=0
Fixed version, thanks for the help SAjewers!
#1 and #5 were already fixed.

Ah, thanks for that, however, Point #2 to #5 still stands. I've added screenshots this time round.

Franky wrote:Desert Fun

Still Rejected.

Awakenyourmind · Post by **Awakenyourmind** » 8 years ago

Honestly????

Post by **Willhart** » 8 years ago

What are legitimate reasons for rejecting a level again? Some of those are probably more about taste.

Sharenite · Post by **SAJewers** » 8 years ago

For me, I've been mainly rejecting levels:

If I think the concept is good, but the execution needs work/can be done better, as an attempt to push said person to make their level better.
If they committed a cardinal sin (eg. Wrong Folder Structure)
If I think the level itself is actually bad and unsalvageable.

If there are issues that I'm fine with leaving to QA if the author doesn't change (or I'm confident that those changes will be made after I post my thoughts), and it doesn't outright affect my view of the level, then I'll generally approve it. Rejects from me are more of a "go back and take a look at this again".

If I approve your level and don't say much, then I think your level is great. If I reject withouth saying much, then it's unsalvageable, or completely ruined by a small thing. By going more in-depth, then I think the level could be better, the reject/approval based on how much better it can be,

That's how I decide on what to approve, and what to reject. How others decide, that's up to them.

Post by **Hoeloe** » 8 years ago

Willhart wrote:What are legitimate reasons for rejecting a level again? Some of those are probably more about taste.

It's a little difficult to give a list of written rules, but there are rules to game and level design, and they're there for a reason. Levels that break those rules in a big way are usually tossed onto the reject pile.

A very common offence is punishing difficulty. The way I like to explain it, if the level is designed to kill the player (i.e. when the player dies, they tend to feel that the game has cheated them somehow), then it's a problem. Spikes or lava directly adjacent to platforms are a good example of this, because their janky hitboxes make a lot of deaths feel unjustified.

On the other hand, if a level is designed to give the player tools to overcome challenges, they're more likely to have a thought process along the lines of "oh I died, I need to jump earlier next time" etc. This makes it feel like the player is at fault for their deaths - the deaths are justified, and thus are less likely to get frustrated, as they have the tools to work out how to change their approach, and succeeding at the obstacle is much more satisfying as a result. An extremely hard level that is also fair and well designed will be less frustrating that a mildly hard level that feels arbitrary.

There are a lot more rules to game design than that of course, this is just specifically punishing vs difficult, but it's one I see quite often. With some experience, you get a knack for spotting sloppy level design, and that's where my reject pile goes.

ztarwuff · Post by **ztarwuff** » 8 years ago

Franky wrote:Honestly????

Yes, I'm sorry for being rather strict, but I spotted those issues now and rather than wait for QA I thought I'd point them out now. As Willhart said, some of my points appear to be a matter of taste and on those points, I'm fine with you ignoring them. However, points #3 and #5 need to be changed before I can accept this level.

That's the bare minimum. Move one spike to the right and change that little room so there's no more one-tile gap. Do that and it's good to go.

Sharenite · Post by **SAJewers** » 8 years ago

Hoeloe wrote:
Willhart wrote:What are legitimate reasons for rejecting a level again? Some of those are probably more about taste.
It's a little difficult to give a list of written rules, but there are rules to game and level design, and they're there for a reason. Levels that break those rules in a big way are usually tossed onto the reject pile.

A very common offence is punishing difficulty. The way I like to explain it, if the level is designed to kill the player (i.e. when the player dies, they tend to feel that the game has cheated them somehow), then it's a problem. Spikes or lava directly adjacent to platforms are a good example of this, because their janky hitboxes make a lot of deaths feel unjustified.

On the other hand, if a level is designed to give the player tools to overcome challenges, they're more likely to have a thought process along the lines of "oh I died, I need to jump earlier next time" etc. This makes it feel like the player is at fault for their deaths - the deaths are justified, and thus are less likely to get frustrated, as they have the tools to work out how to change their approach, and succeeding at the obstacle is much more satisfying as a result. An extremely hard level that is also fair and well designed will be less frustrating that a mildly hard level that feels arbitrary.

There are a lot more rules to game design than that of course, this is just specifically punishing vs difficult, but it's one I see quite often. With some experience, you get a knack for spotting sloppy level design, and that's where my reject pile goes.

If I may source Extra Credits here:

Post by **Hoeloe** » 8 years ago

SAJewers wrote: If I may source Extra Credits here:

This is a pretty good explanation of what I'm talking about.

raocow's talkhaus

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