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Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

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Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Oddwrath » 2 years ago

As suggested in the Episode 2 discussion, here's a theme/town thread. Even though, it probably won't be used much until we have more levels accepted. Which reminds me, should we first create the themes and let them dictate the levels or vice versa?
Last edited by Oddwrath on 12 Oct 2014, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

(Psst. We're on Episode 2 now)

The themes of the worlds should definitely be dictated by the levels. Putting unnecessary constraints on level designers wouldn't achieve anything.
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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Oddwrath » 2 years ago

Hoeloe wrote:(Psst. We're on Episode 2 now)
Crap. Guys, how do I rename the thread

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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

Oddwrath wrote:
Hoeloe wrote:(Psst. We're on Episode 2 now)
Crap. Guys, how do I rename the thread
I think you can just edit the first post.
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

A quick look at Isrieri's reviews shows a trend in world 3. There seem to be a few city-based and sand-based levels around that world. I'd suggest perhaps a desert town (think somewhere like Cairo) might make a good world theme, and a little different from the standard "middle of the desert" world.
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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Demolition » 2 years ago

Hoeloe wrote: The themes of the worlds should definitely be dictated by the levels. Putting unnecessary constraints on level designers wouldn't achieve anything.
I disagree, I think that themed worlds could be REALLY cool, I think the plan was to try themed worlds in episode 3 though.

For episode 2 we already have a ton of levels made, so it's a little late for people to be putting constraints on people.

I'm also pretty sure that we have to use the same world map tile-set
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Oddwrath » 2 years ago

Hoeloe wrote: The themes of the worlds should definitely be dictated by the levels. Putting unnecessary constraints on level designers wouldn't achieve anything.
That fine, but I thought it would be a great idea to have a list of themes and have people pick any and how many they want. It wouldn't need to be a small list either, could probably have 100 entries in it.

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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby shaman » 2 years ago

Underwater town is a must
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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

Demolition wrote:
Hoeloe wrote: The themes of the worlds should definitely be dictated by the levels. Putting unnecessary constraints on level designers wouldn't achieve anything.
I disagree, I think that themed worlds could be REALLY cool, I think the plan was to try themed worlds in episode 3 though.

For episode 2 we already have a ton of levels made, so it's a little late for people to be putting constraints on people.

I'm also pretty sure that we have to use the same world map tile-set
It would be cool, but we're too disorganised, in my opinion. The trouble is that to have pre-defined town themes, we'd need to regulate the themes of levels and their difficulty at once. If, for example, there were an underwater theme in world 2, a really difficult underwater level couldn't really work for the game, since it uses world 2's theme, but probably belongs in world 7 or 8. This wouldn't be a problem if we were working as a professional team, with the levels being discussed and agreed upon first, but we aren't, and this limits what people can do. That's my opinion, anyway.

As for using the same world map tile-set, that's only the case if we're using the same exe, and it's still a grey area as to whether we're doing that. I personally think we should use a new one. If this were a romhack, we'd have to use a new exe anyway, so I don't particularly see the issue.
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby raocow » 2 years ago

Something that would be funny would be, like with the levels... to just 'do' towns using whatever theme inspires people, and it will be fit in with a map.

I mean a2xt: af was entirely made that way, I'm sure it would be possible to put in towns the same way...
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

raocow wrote:Something that would be funny would be, like with the levels... to just 'do' towns using whatever theme inspires people, and it will be fit in with a map.

I mean a2xt: af was entirely made that way, I'm sure it would be possible to put in towns the same way...
I think this could more or less work, to be honest. It might be a good idea, though, to at least know some of the levels that will be in the same world as the town. I have a town idea that has space for references to a few levels in there (including one of my own), so it would be good to have some idea for that purpose at least.
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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Demolition » 2 years ago

Hoeloe wrote: It would be cool, but we're too disorganised, in my opinion. The trouble is that to have pre-defined town themes, we'd need to regulate the themes of levels and their difficulty at once. If, for example, there were an underwater theme in world 2, a really difficult underwater level couldn't really work for the game, since it uses world 2's theme, but probably belongs in world 7 or 8. This wouldn't be a problem if we were working as a professional team, with the levels being discussed and agreed upon first, but we aren't, and this limits what people can do. That's my opinion, anyway.
I recall that the plan was that the player can go to any world at any time and would need a certain amount of leeks to access the harder parts of each world. so water world could have super easy and super hard levels but you would have to have enough leeks to access the hard ones.


I'm pretty sure that we are using the same exe, we are expanding on A2XT not making a sequel.
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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

Demolition wrote: I recall that the plan was that the player can go to any world at any time and would need a certain amount of leeks to access the harder parts of each world. so water world could have super easy and super hard levels but you would have to have enough leeks to access the hard ones.


I'm pretty sure that we are using the same exe, we are expanding on A2XT not making a sequel.
Ah, that makes a lot more sense, in that case. If that's the plan, then I'd be happy to have worlds themed before hand.

I recall there was some debate a short while ago, and there were a lot of points in favour of a new exe, the only point against being filesize, which is practically a non-issue, since most of the size would be in the new levels anyway. The biggest issue with not using a new exe is probably LunaDLL - updating LunaDLL to a new version, which allows access to things such as LunaLua and extra features, could potentially break Episode 1, and would require going back through the entire game and fixing the Luna scripts, or at least ensuring they still work. This seems like a lot of wasted effort for the sake of saving a few megabytes.
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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Demolition » 2 years ago

Hoeloe wrote: I recall there was some debate a short while ago, and there were a lot of points in favour of a new exe, the only point against being filesize, which is practically a non-issue, since most of the size would be in the new levels anyway. The biggest issue with not using a new exe is probably LunaDLL - updating LunaDLL to a new version, which allows access to things such as LunaLua and extra features, could potentially break Episode 1, and would require going back through the entire game and fixing the Luna scripts, or at least ensuring they still work. This seems like a lot of wasted effort for the sake of saving a few megabytes.
Is it only the hard-coded Levels that are effected in episode 1?
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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

Demolition wrote: Is it only the hard-coded Levels that are effected in episode 1?
Potentially any level that uses LunaDLL scripts, depending on what they are.

There are other good points to having a new exe though - it means we can have a new overworld, with new music and tilesets (I know some was unused, but that can be kept), and even if it's an expansion of episode 1, I don't think that's a bad thing.
Last edited by Hoeloe on 12 Oct 2014, 21:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Kil » 2 years ago

I don't really think anything will break in the old game. None of the old functionality has been changed that I know of.
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

Kil wrote:I don't really think anything will break in the old game. None of the old functionality has been changed that I know of.
Fair enough, but the LunaLua version, as far as I know so far, has some... interesting... bugs, which could potentially mess up standard LunaDLL functionality. I'm not sure, I don't know how the two are patched in.
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Leet » 2 years ago

if we have a new exe then what the frik was the point of downloading the base game and then the episode, and even having the first episode have a number in front of analog funk. damn it i dont need literally 10 smbx installations and neither does anyone else

too bad its an inevitability since nobody apparently planned ahead regarding the overworld graphics...

ack sorry if im angry i just, im really frustrated with this, since the whole point of a2xt would be that you would download the additional episodes into the base game and yeah
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Re: Episode 1 Theme/Town Thread

Postby SAJewers » 2 years ago

Demolition wrote:
Hoeloe wrote: It would be cool, but we're too disorganised, in my opinion. The trouble is that to have pre-defined town themes, we'd need to regulate the themes of levels and their difficulty at once. If, for example, there were an underwater theme in world 2, a really difficult underwater level couldn't really work for the game, since it uses world 2's theme, but probably belongs in world 7 or 8. This wouldn't be a problem if we were working as a professional team, with the levels being discussed and agreed upon first, but we aren't, and this limits what people can do. That's my opinion, anyway.
I recall that the plan was that the player can go to any world at any time and would need a certain amount of leeks to access the harder parts of each world. so water world could have super easy and super hard levels but you would have to have enough leeks to access the hard ones.


I'm pretty sure that we are using the same exe, we are expanding on A2XT not making a sequel.There's no good way to do that without making the entire thing a HUB and not an OW. It should probably be like Episode 1 where you have to complete a certain # of worlds to unlock the other worlds.
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Oddwrath » 2 years ago

Why not just create the exe that replaces everything that needs to be replaced in the graphics folder/lunadll?
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Seconded. If we replace the entire engine again, then it's not an episodic game anymore. It's A3XT.

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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

Leet wrote: ack sorry if im angry i just, im really frustrated with this, since the whole point of a2xt would be that you would download the additional episodes into the base game and yeah
I still don't really see the difference. Yes, you have some duplicated assets, but is it really that much more inconvenient to have another base game installation? What actually is gained from using the same one?
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Leet » 2 years ago

Hoeloe wrote:I still don't really see the difference. Yes, you have some duplicated assets, but is it really that much more inconvenient to have another base game installation? What actually is gained from using the same one?
the fact that i already have several installations?

-smbx proper
-asmbxt
-sttb2.5
-a2mbxt
-my own smbx collab (i should probably delete this one since it didnt work out due to people being dumb)

surprised i dont have sttb 1+2, which would add another one

like do i really need this many, its like having to download 5 separate variations on ZSNES just to play individual romhacks
ImageWell it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

Leet wrote: like do i really need this many, its like having to download 5 separate variations on ZSNES just to play individual romhacks
But why is having many different installations a problem, exactly? You still need to download different copies of what is essentially, for example, SMW, to play romhacks. The difference is that ZSNES is just a wrapper, while SMBX contains the game itself - much like different individual romhacks. SMBX is designed to run on a PC OS, and you don't need multiple versions of that to run it.

I'm asking again, why is having more installations actually a problem, bar taking up a little more space for the base assets (which is vastly trumped by all the content of the individual game)?
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Kil » 2 years ago

I'm lost in this convo right now, but about updating lunadll and breaking stuff... - All the Lua stuff is totally separate from autocode and the few hardcoded levels, so I really can't imagine it breaking old a2mbxt. The situation is kinda like this Image

All the things are using the base functions of lunadll, but those base functions haven't changed and should still be working in the same way that a2mbxt depends on. So yeah, probably nothing will break.
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Re: Episode 2 Theme/Town Thread

Postby Hoeloe » 2 years ago

Kil wrote: All the things are using the base functions of lunadll, but those base functions haven't changed and should still be working in the same way that a2mbxt depends on. So yeah, probably nothing will break.
Ah, that was actually what I was referring to. LunaLua replaces the standard LunaDLL, so I don't know if it's made any changes to these functions, which might cause issues with autocode. I'll admit, I don't actually know if this is the case, I'm just pointing out the possibility.


As per my other comments, I guess it just seems a bit crazy to me to restrict ourselves so heavily, primarily because we decided to call it "A2XT Episode 2" rather than "ASX3". I'm not saying we should call it "ASX3", but that the fact that it's called "A2XT Episode 2" shouldn't mean we force limitations on ourselves where they're not necessary.
Last edited by Hoeloe on 12 Oct 2014, 21:42, edited 1 time in total.
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