(shouting)

Episode 2 Discussion Thread

The second SMBX collab!

Name

Poll ended at 8 years ago

A Super Mario Bros X Thing Episode 3 (PTTS = Ep1)
0
No votes
A Super Mario Bros X Thing Episode 2 (PTTS = Ep0)
1
7%
A Second Mario Bros X Thing Episode 2
11
73%
A Third Mario Bros X Thing
3
20%
 
Total votes: 15

User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by SAJewers »

Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
I don't see the problem with having one level make the player go one way and the very next one make the player go the other way; it will teach newcomers that levels can go both ways and traditional Mario fans that not all levels will go left-to-right. Sure, my level will make newcomers think that all levels will go that way initially, but when the next level has the player on the left facing right, he/she will easily be able to figure out that he/she has to go to the right this time and that levels aren't limited to going in one direction.
I think it's bad from a tutorial standpoint to start on the right if virtually all levels start on the left.
Imaynotbehere4long wrote: I don't see why we can't save second-tier power-ups for another character's tutorial level. After all, SMW didn't introduce the feather cape until World 2; we can introduce flying, etc. in the second tutorial level.
Because Sheath's powerups are different, and that distinction 100% needs to be made. Just because you've learned what the leaf does as Demo doesn't mean you know how to use it as Kood or Sheath.
Imaynotbehere4long wrote: To be fair, there are some things that are impossible (if not, nearly impossible) to teach that way (example: SMW tells the player how to hold shells and throw them upward, Zelda II tells the player "When you jump press downward to stab" when the down-thrust is unlocked, etc.). Sure, Mega Man X's intro stage does a good job at teaching the player how to play Mega Man X, but all of X's moves only require one button, and each button is reserved for one move (with the possible exception of wall-jumping, but that game gives the player a visual clue that SMBX just doesn't have for down-thrusting spikes, etc.).

I understand your ambition, but some of this simply isn't feasible. If it can be done, please show me how.

I'd also like to point out that Mega Man X used visuals, not the environment, to show the player how to charge shots.
And that's your job as the level designer: to teach the concepts to the player. You have events and lua at your disposal, there should be zero reason why you can't teach a concept without telling the player. If you can't, give it to someone else, and let them try.
Imaynotbehere4long wrote: Going to be honest: I still don't understand what the long-term negative effect of having 8 leeks in the first level is. Please explain.

The way I see it, the greater the amount of leeks, the greater chance of first-time players noticing a number on the HUD appear/increase, and by extension, noticing that leeks are a permanent collectible. After the level, it shouldn't take long for the player to notice that leeks become scarce in the main game and are used for unlockables. On the developer's side, all you have to do is compensate for the additional leeks (e.g., 9 for the first unlockable, etc.).[/spoiler]
You shouldn't need to teach the concept more than once unless you're extending a prior teaching element or changing up what was taught. Using 8 leeks to teach 1 concept is too much IMO. Also, leeks are probably not being used as unlockables.
Pyro wrote:How about we just start the game in the alternate reality, where there's the picnic and everything? Then we can have a level specifically built to tutorialize Demo, Iris, Kood, and raocow. After you beat that level, it cuts to Post Production Void. That way, PPV can get by on minimal changes and we can still have a good, well-designed tutorial.
If people want to go that route, that's fine, but that doesn't change the fact that PPV still needs work to be a well-designed tutorial for Sheath.
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
User avatar
ano0maly
Discord User
Posts: 2945
Joined: 12 years ago

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by ano0maly »

SAJewers wrote:
Imaynotbehere4long wrote: To be fair, there are some things that are impossible (if not, nearly impossible) to teach that way (example: SMW tells the player how to hold shells and throw them upward, Zelda II tells the player "When you jump press downward to stab" when the down-thrust is unlocked, etc.). Sure, Mega Man X's intro stage does a good job at teaching the player how to play Mega Man X, but all of X's moves only require one button, and each button is reserved for one move (with the possible exception of wall-jumping, but that game gives the player a visual clue that SMBX just doesn't have for down-thrusting spikes, etc.).

I understand your ambition, but some of this simply isn't feasible. If it can be done, please show me how.

I'd also like to point out that Mega Man X used visuals, not the environment, to show the player how to charge shots.
And that's your job as the level designer: to teach the concepts to the player. You have events and lua at your disposal, there should be zero reason why you can't teach a concept without telling the player. If you can't, give it to someone else, and let them try.
I understand your ambition, but some of this simply isn't feasible. If it can be done, please show me how.
User avatar
Hoeloe
A2XT person
Posts: 1016
Joined: 12 years ago
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Spaaace

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by Hoeloe »

I've volunteered on the Skype chat to make a short tutorial. I've done level design professionally and have some experience of this kind of thing. You can teach complex mechanics through gameplay alone - it just takes some care and planning. Portal, for example, is almost entirely tutorial. If you've never done it before it can be difficult to see how, which is why I wanted to make a short level to show this.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Imaynotbehere4long
Gone, but...yeah, pretty much forgotten.
Posts: 289
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by Imaynotbehere4long »

Actually, I think I figured out how to introduce down-thrusting spikes, etc. through the environment alone. I also have an idea to have the level start with a short section or two that makes the player go right first before transitioning to the main level where he/she has to go left (hopefully, that will be enough to let SAJewers give it a pass in that regard).

As for the Super Leeks being SMW stars:
SAJewers wrote:leeks
While I agree that teaching a concept more than once can be redundant, that's not exactly what the level is doing; it's teaching the player not only that leeks are a collectible, but also that there can be multiple leeks hidden in one level. Sure, you could argue that 8 leeks is still redundant in that regard, but since Super Leeks count as leeks in the main game, it would be best to stay consistent. Plus, it shouldn't be too difficult to let the player know that leeks are normally rare and that my level just takes place where Super Leeks had to be in abundance to power the reality stabilizer (in fact, I might be able to do that myself).

So yeah, I still see no downside to having the Super Leeks be SMW stars.
My SMBX portfolio:
Image
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)

SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by SAJewers »

Regardless, I don't want to see a level with tons of leeks that can't justify itself over lua saving or multipoints.
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
User avatar
Imaynotbehere4long
Gone, but...yeah, pretty much forgotten.
Posts: 289
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by Imaynotbehere4long »

Is consistency really not a good enough justification? I'd think that introducing leeks that don't count toward the total when all the other levels' leeks do would be confusing.

This is on top of the fact that the level would be introducing leeks as a collectible and would be showing that more than one can be in a level.

E:
SAJewers wrote:ping
Okay, my original idea for having the player start on the left won't quite work. Is it okay if I put the intro cut-scene in its own level and have it lead to the level part of the level via a warp?

E2: Darn, I just missed you. Hopefully you'll see this.
Last edited by Imaynotbehere4long 8 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
My SMBX portfolio:
Image
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)

SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by SAJewers »

Yes. Super leeks probably won't be counted as leeks in Ep1. They only "counted" because it was the only way at the time to check if someone already beat the level. Now we have lua saving, so we won't need to count them as super leeks.
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
WasabiJellyfish
Posts: 117
Joined: 9 years ago

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by WasabiJellyfish »

SAJewers wrote:Yes. Super leeks probably won't be counted as leeks in Ep1. They only "counted" because it was the only way at the time to check if someone already beat the level. Now we have lua saving, so we won't need to count them as super leeks.
I think Super Leeks should count depending on how the world map is set up. Mainly because in most other games the end of world stars/collectibles do count towards the count so it seems weird to not have them do so. Especially since they ARE leeks as well? Like if it was something else like a sunflower or something I don't think it would need to, but they are leeks.
User avatar
ohmato
hey idiot
Posts: 792
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: location, location
Contact:

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by ohmato »

fish

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by SAJewers »

Just wanted put this out there, but I'm aiming for starting development of the towns, cutscenes, OW, etc., once MaGLX2 ends.
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
User avatar
docopoper
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla non pharetra enim, nec maximus odio.
Posts: 78
Joined: 12 years ago
First name: Shane Farrell
Pronouns: they/he
Location: Ireland

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by docopoper »

I might try and do a bonus game where you race Calleoca for a high score if I get time over Christmas (as opposed to a boss fight). Sorry for being so desynchronised with the submission schedule, life is doing all the things right now. *crosses fingers*
The first thing I would do with infinite power would be to make myself a cave where I could look at my shadow forever.

Image <- Go team Yeah Doctor Shemp.!
Image <- That's everyone being nice to me. ^^

I made a game called Utter Confusion! Play it! :D
It's a lot of fun and has been incredibly popular at every indie game dev party I've brought it to.
WasabiJellyfish
Posts: 117
Joined: 9 years ago

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by WasabiJellyfish »

Here's a little test/draft/whatever of a potential cutscene with Uncle Rewind and the Krew, not sure where else to put it:




This does not have any bearing on anything I just made it to show off a little cinematX stuff
User avatar
docopoper
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla non pharetra enim, nec maximus odio.
Posts: 78
Joined: 12 years ago
First name: Shane Farrell
Pronouns: they/he
Location: Ireland

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by docopoper »

WasabiJellyfish wrote:Here's a little test/draft/whatever of a potential cutscene with Uncle Rewind and the Krew, not sure where else to put it:




This does not have any bearing on anything I just made it to show off a little cinematX stuff
The cutscenes in this game are looking awesome I must say.
The first thing I would do with infinite power would be to make myself a cave where I could look at my shadow forever.

Image <- Go team Yeah Doctor Shemp.!
Image <- That's everyone being nice to me. ^^

I made a game called Utter Confusion! Play it! :D
It's a lot of fun and has been incredibly popular at every indie game dev party I've brought it to.
Rixithechao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BODxOghVmko
Posts: 1812
Joined: 10 years ago
First name: Mack
https://rixithechao.talkhaus.com/

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by Rixithechao »

docopoper wrote:I might try and do a bonus game where you race Calleoca for a high score if I get time over Christmas (as opposed to a boss fight). Sorry for being so desynchronised with the submission schedule, life is doing all the things right now. *crosses fingers*
So, uh... I just remembered this post. And I realized I'd been working on this exact thing for a while now. >__<




This is the extended race level for the updated cinematX sample episode. Calleoca was just meant to be a placeholder, and while I've mentioned using it as a potential boss in Ep. 2, I was hoping I could keep it for the sample episode. But now I don't know what to do... I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to steal your thunder or anything! I've just been really dense about this :(
Delightful Adventure Enhanced is out now!

Image

There's an official ASMT Discord server! Check it out to discuss Demo games and follow their development! thread, invite link

(Entry requires verification, either with a connected Youtube/Twitter/Twitch/etc account or manually by the server staff.)


Itch.io (albums and eventually games), Youtube (dofur pass and I guess other videos)
User avatar
docopoper
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla non pharetra enim, nec maximus odio.
Posts: 78
Joined: 12 years ago
First name: Shane Farrell
Pronouns: they/he
Location: Ireland

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by docopoper »

Rockythechao wrote:This is the extended race level for the updated cinematX sample episode. Calleoca was just meant to be a placeholder, and while I've mentioned using it as a potential boss in Ep. 2, I was hoping I could keep it for the sample episode. But now I don't know what to do... I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to steal your thunder or anything! I've just been really dense about this :(
Ha. That looks pretty cool. Don't worry, that description of the level I want to make was just a simplification. My actual idea is to record how every player runs through the level, upload it to a server and have players race against ghosts of each other. Racing an AI is a substantially different thing.

I am totally in favour of your level, even if they existed in the same game (or if they don't).
The first thing I would do with infinite power would be to make myself a cave where I could look at my shadow forever.

Image <- Go team Yeah Doctor Shemp.!
Image <- That's everyone being nice to me. ^^

I made a game called Utter Confusion! Play it! :D
It's a lot of fun and has been incredibly popular at every indie game dev party I've brought it to.
User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by SAJewers »

Gonna stream, planning on playing all the levels in Worlds 1 and 2.

http://twitch.tv/sajewers
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
Heraga
Posts: 286
Joined: 9 years ago

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by Heraga »

Would I be allowed to use custom music and GFX from my fangame in a level for this episode?
User avatar
docopoper
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla non pharetra enim, nec maximus odio.
Posts: 78
Joined: 12 years ago
First name: Shane Farrell
Pronouns: they/he
Location: Ireland

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by docopoper »

Definitely, provided YouTube doesn't strike videos as a result of the music you can use whatever you want (within reason obviously). You may notice that the previous episode is full of copyrighted music and graphics.
The first thing I would do with infinite power would be to make myself a cave where I could look at my shadow forever.

Image <- Go team Yeah Doctor Shemp.!
Image <- That's everyone being nice to me. ^^

I made a game called Utter Confusion! Play it! :D
It's a lot of fun and has been incredibly popular at every indie game dev party I've brought it to.
User avatar
docopoper
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla non pharetra enim, nec maximus odio.
Posts: 78
Joined: 12 years ago
First name: Shane Farrell
Pronouns: they/he
Location: Ireland

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by docopoper »

At this point I'm certain I won't be able to get a level done for episode 2. Hopefully I'll be back for episode 3. The main problems for me at the moment are:
  • I have very little time this year.
  • I had quite popular levels last episode and feel under personal pressure to upstage them, which is hard :lol:.
  • I feel kind of out of the loop and am not sure where to look to keep up to date with the project. I think episode 1 had this problem too, it's just that I had enough time to remain in the loop for episode 1.
The second point is kind of hypocritical because I insisted quite a few times for us not to try and upstage episode 1. Welp.
Either way, it's still good advice.
The first thing I would do with infinite power would be to make myself a cave where I could look at my shadow forever.

Image <- Go team Yeah Doctor Shemp.!
Image <- That's everyone being nice to me. ^^

I made a game called Utter Confusion! Play it! :D
It's a lot of fun and has been incredibly popular at every indie game dev party I've brought it to.
User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by SAJewers »

People care to give an update on levels, who are working on them?
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
User avatar
raocow
the death of the incredible huge
Posts: 4078
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily
https://raocow.talkhaus.com/

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by raocow »

making my level is a long arduous process as I'm fighting against my creator's block. Is there a formal deadline that we have to submit the first draft for testing? that would probably help me honestly.
the chillaxest of dragonsImage
Image
Image
User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by SAJewers »

It'd be nice if they got in before the end of January. Maybe we'll set a date of February 10?
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
User avatar
raocow
the death of the incredible huge
Posts: 4078
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: maybe the Wizards are the most complex, and the sales guys are up their daily
https://raocow.talkhaus.com/

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by raocow »

I don't know about the other people, but that seems fair to me
the chillaxest of dragonsImage
Image
Image
User avatar
FrozenQuills
hehe haha 2024
Posts: 843
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: my skull

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by FrozenQuills »

Not sure if towns count but
I have the main layout for the world 8 town done, but I really want an example town (or any town) done before I do any cinematX shenanigans. I want to keep things consistent and make building it easier (plus I have no idea how cinematX works).
Image
Image
avatar by crayonchewer!
Image
Image
Image
SMBX Tileset Compiler and Separator
The boss entry that made me eat a shoe.

5th place counter: 5
(SMBX Forums CC11, SMBX Forums CC12, Endgame Madness Contest, SMWC Kaizo Contest 2016, SMWC 24hr Contest 2018)
User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Episode 2 Discussion Thread

Post by SAJewers »

I don't care about towns or other stuff right now, just the levels that need to be made. That should be priority.
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
Post Reply