(shouting)

Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

The second SMBX collab!
User avatar
pholtos
Loves adorable things.
Posts: 1663
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: One of the States in the Center of the U.S.

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by pholtos »

Unaniem wrote:
Pholtos wrote:My intro level has an apparent problem with foreground elements....
Any way to make them foreground pieces go in front of demo and not look strange?
Either edit a background object that is already a foreground object (I.e.: fences), or heavily modify a NPC to become a harmless foreground object with the various NPC-flags. (Foreground, Nohurt, nogravity, npccollision ect. ect.)
.......I have no experience in making these type of things. So... Help?
Host and Organizer of the Rando Pokemon Tournaments. Completed: I, II, III, IV, V
Dealer of the Pokermon Discord Tourneys.

ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage

I do LPs, check them out if you'd like.

Currently playing:
Image

The 500 char limit is evil. :P
User avatar
Isrieri
Creatively Bankrupt
Posts: 95
Joined: 11 years ago
Pronouns: Male

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Isrieri »

Heavy Sigh wrote: I don't really get the problem with swimmable and non-swimmable water here. Both are shown off as being distinctly different, and are first placed in non-dangerous areas so that you should realize the difference, so I don't really see the problem here.
Because it's silly. Why not just get rid of the non-swimmable water and avoid the issue altogether? If you want to have a game that's high quality it is important to show consistency between one level and another. How do you know when to trust that you can swim in water if it changes from a level to level basis? You really can't, you just have to find some way to test it out or make a leap of faith and pray it works. Which isn't very good design.

And that's just all the other levels in the game. Here it's especially silly because its just weird. All those waterfalls just make it hard to keep track of all the other moving stuff.
The goopas are part of the challenge, if you're slow all you have to do is wait a bit, don't see the problem here.
True, but I thought they were more annoying than challenging because there's no other way around the goopas aside from barreling in there and dodging like a pro. If you're too slow you have to wait a good while before things line up to safely let you in. You can still make it in there if you're good enough to time it right and then you've got to worry about all the ones bouncing around off the blocks. It only felt hard because I couldn't make out what was what based on the graphics. All you'd have to do is maybe get rid of that first one that hops out of the steam room. Or maybe stick a mushroom around there somewhere so you can tank a hit.
The Shyguy bit I can see, but I'm not sure how to remake the boss without turning it into a five second joke. Also, the megaman doors existed just as a joke, which is why you just walk into the wall. Is that really something a player wouldn't realize, even if it just required walking right?
The doors look like a wall. So yes.
Eh, the level was made to be a bit tougher than average, so a lot of the challenge was based around you going at top speed.
That's why I suggested taking the bullets out. It is a good challenging level otherwise!
...I did put a spiral next to the jump letters, right? ...Is there a better symbol to use there?
If this were a hack, I'd say a big letter 'A' but since it's SMBX I'm not sure what you could write instead. 'A' is also the normal spin jump button if you're playing on a keyboard so it might be a safe bet.
Last edited by Isrieri 10 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Isrieri
Creatively Bankrupt
Posts: 95
Joined: 11 years ago
Pronouns: Male

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Isrieri »

Mabel wrote:so how about that Baker Street eh?

-I felt like if i gave out alot of ice power it would make the level too easy, the first half is a decent enough difficulty with only a beet/fire
-I may or may not throw in a hammer suit on the top half, but Ice already make the 2nd half significantly easier
-im just gonna remove the invisible part altogether
-I don't think it's worse off from being easier but I can see where you're coming from there.
-To say "Significantly easier" is a bit of a stretch.
-That was my only real gripe with the level so if that goes then I think it's all set. I loved the music!
Septentrion Pleiades
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 13 years ago
First name: Stephen
Location: Holstaurus Heaven

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Septentrion Pleiades »

Isrieri wrote:
Heavy Sigh wrote: I don't really get the problem with swimmable and non-swimmable water here. Both are shown off as being distinctly different, and are first placed in non-dangerous areas so that you should realize the difference, so I don't really see the problem here.
Because it's silly. Why not just get rid of the non-swimmable water and avoid the issue altogether? If you want to have a game that's high quality it is important to show consistency between one level and another. How do you know when to trust that you can swim in water if it changes from a level to level basis? You really can't, you just have to find some way to test it out or make a leap of faith and pray it works. Which isn't very good design.

And that's just all the other levels in the game. Here it's especially silly because its just weird. All those waterfalls just make it hard to keep track of all the other moving stuff.
Could rain be made to work?
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Sturg
Gets his freak on with VGM
Posts: 709
Joined: 13 years ago
First name: sturgyman
Location: - :noiƚɒɔo⅃
Contact:

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Sturg »

Isrieri wrote:
Heavy Sigh wrote: wrote:
I don't really get the problem with swimmable and non-swimmable water here. Both are shown off as being distinctly different, and are first placed in non-dangerous areas so that you should realize the difference, so I don't really see the problem here.

Because it's silly. Why not just get rid of the non-swimmable water and avoid the issue altogether? If you want to have a game that's high quality it is important to show consistency between one level and another. How do you know when to trust that you can swim in water if it changes from a level to level basis? You really can't, you just have to find some way to test it out or make a leap of faith and pray it works. Which isn't very good design.

And that's just all the other levels in the game. Here it's especially silly because its just weird. All those waterfalls just make it hard to keep track of all the other moving stuff.
Here's a better solution imo:

Have the non swim-able water have a darker tint than the swim-able one so it looks like the non-one it's in the background as it should, and making it look better at the same time? That way you're not using two different graphics to show different things, but more along the lines giving the perception of "hey this waterfall is closer so I can swim in it."
ImageImage
Image ImageImage
RIP FISH NIPPLE BANNER
Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 11 years ago

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Sep's rain idea sounds better to me for several reasons:
  • Everyone knows you can't swim in rain
  • It's obviously immediately distinguishable from water
  • Making non-swimmable water a darker colour would only put it in the background until the screen scrolls and it doesn't move in parallax while the rest of the background does.
User avatar
Heavy Sigh
Posts: 813
Joined: 11 years ago

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Heavy Sigh »

Septentrion Pleiades wrote:
Could rain be made to work?
Possibly, but the whole idea I had was that the waterfalls were melted snow leaking through the roof. Rain wouldn't really feel right here, and I wouldn't be able to do a good replacement graphic to save my life.
User avatar
Mabel
Just west of wierd
Posts: 302
Joined: 10 years ago
https://marbels.talkhaus.com/

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Mabel »

Isrieri wrote: -To say "Significantly easier" is a bit of a stretch.
probably...
but the difference in starting the second half small compared to running it with Ice had a decent gap in difficulty when I did my testing(so much that I nerfed a ton of the second half compared to what it is now), keep in mind an average player might have more trouble with the rain + some enemies.
Image
Image
Image Image
User avatar
Sturg
Gets his freak on with VGM
Posts: 709
Joined: 13 years ago
First name: sturgyman
Location: - :noiƚɒɔo⅃
Contact:

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Sturg »

Rain is one of the hardest type of graphics to implement into a level while trying to make it look pretty at the same time. I've seen diagonal rain and that really doesn't look well without having it plastered throughout the entire level (which is kind of hard on the eyes, same for straight down rain). If you have the effort and make a rain graphic that goes straight down (I'm fairly sure that hasn't been made), then that'd be better, but I think it'd be much safer/neater to do either the darker bg or what Isrieri said because of how dumb rain can be.

Plus, the darker background isn't supposed to scroll with the background, but it's still showing the fact that there's a waterfall there in the back, but it's not too close to effect the player. If you want a waterfall to scroll, put it in the background2 image. It's just as distinguishable from each other as rain, with one being darker, and the other one brighter.
ImageImage
Image ImageImage
RIP FISH NIPPLE BANNER
User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by SAJewers »

Doctor Shemp wrote:Sep's rain idea sounds better to me for several reasons:
  • Everyone knows you can't swim in rain
There's an approved level where that is the entire basis of the level.
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
User avatar
Unaniem
Desperately trying to figure out just what the hell
Posts: 175
Joined: 11 years ago
First name: Tree
Location: Megalovanilla

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Unaniem »

Pholtos wrote:.......I have no experience in making these type of things. So... Help?
Well the latter method is probably too convoluted to be of any efficience in this scenario, so we'll just go easy route here:
1.png
1.png (16.05 KiB) Viewed 4633 times
This is what the situation looks like now, as I said before, this can be fixed easily by making the tree a foreground object instead of a background object.

Now SMBX is a little dumb when it comes to background/foreground objects, as both are located in the 'background' tab, but there is no mention anywhere which graphics are what.
Fortunately if you play around with the engine enough you'll soon find out (and remember) which ones are the aforementioned foreground objects.
2.png
2.png (18.77 KiB) Viewed 4633 times
These fences for instance. These are the ones we're going to edit.
3.png
3.png (143 KiB) Viewed 4633 times
Sprite editing background objects goes the same way as editing any other NPC or the likes, only you cannot apply frame/width/length flags to them which is really disappointing.
4.png
4.png (12.39 KiB) Viewed 4633 times
Simply slap the tree graphic over the fence graphic to replace it. (Make sure to edit the mask sprite to cover each 'present' pixel of the visible graphic itself, which in this case is every pixel available so you can just fill in the block.)
5.png
5.png (35.31 KiB) Viewed 4633 times
Dump 'em in your level folder.
6.png
6.png (42.14 KiB) Viewed 4633 times
If you wish, you can even edit another fence to have the entire tree stem available to you instead of just one half. (As the full tree stem graphic is 32/64, unlike the fences which are 32/32)
7.png
7.png (23.47 KiB) Viewed 4633 times
Time to replace some.

[Not shown: Me editing more fences to shove the tree branches into the foreground as well.]
8.png
8.png (18.53 KiB) Viewed 4633 times
And there's the level now!
Here's the version with all the replacements implemented.
Image
User avatar
ztarwuff
What the heck is a flair and why am I being asked to write one for my profile?
Posts: 550
Joined: 10 years ago
Location: Within 2 miles of the Imperial Crypt of Napoleon III

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by ztarwuff »

Isrieri wrote:
The goopas are part of the challenge, if you're slow all you have to do is wait a bit, don't see the problem here.
True, but I thought they were more annoying than challenging because there's no other way around the goopas aside from barreling in there and dodging like a pro. If you're too slow you have to wait a good while before things line up to safely let you in. You can still make it in there if you're good enough to time it right and then you've got to worry about all the ones bouncing around off the blocks. It only felt hard because I couldn't make out what was what based on the graphics. All you'd have to do is maybe get rid of that first one that hops out of the steam room. Or maybe stick a mushroom around there somewhere so you can tank a hit.
Yeah, I didn't like them either, but I didn't say anything because I thought I was just bad. I died a few times in the very first screen before I could even get to the next one.

EDIT: I wasn't going to edit Pavlov Gold, but now that I've noticed the banansnake is yellow now (which requires me to make a change to the level) I might as well go the whole hog and shorten one of the sections as Isieri suggested.
User avatar
pholtos
Loves adorable things.
Posts: 1663
Joined: 15 years ago
Location: One of the States in the Center of the U.S.

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by pholtos »

Oh man Unaniem thanks for fixing it up and the small tutorial about graphics. May need that for the maglx level possibly.
Host and Organizer of the Rando Pokemon Tournaments. Completed: I, II, III, IV, V
Dealer of the Pokermon Discord Tourneys.

ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage

I do LPs, check them out if you'd like.

Currently playing:
Image

The 500 char limit is evil. :P
User avatar
Menshay
Posts: 2
Joined: 13 years ago
Location: Italy

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Menshay »

Replies:
Edge of the Night:
- I don't exactly remember the snakes' positioning, but I don't remember any of them to be really in the way. This should be fine, I guess?
- The pipe is marked by blue coins (only used here in the whole level), and by looking at the terrain it's possible to see it continuing downwards, I won't just place the springboard there because I want to keep it as a sort of secret. Removing the plant is a nice idea, though, I will think about that.
- I've already used a leek in the main ending, and since the orb is now a money bag (so some kind of treasure) I sort of like it. I could replace both exits, but I don't know if this would mess up the (already done?) overworld or something.
Crazed Circuitry:
I actually thought about the Thwomps, but a player who knows how they normally work might not be inclined to treat them as blocks. If I end up changing how they work I might make some minor changes to their graphics, though I have to test if it really works better.
Intro 6:
- If it has the octopi it's the latest version, and yeah, while it's meant to be done it feels kind of incomplete even to me. I accept any suggestion from anyone. The first part is meant as some kind of Super Metroid joke or something.
- Don't worry about LunaDLL missing, it's just a message popping up and has no effect on the gameplay.
User avatar
SAJewers
ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
Posts: 4200
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by SAJewers »

The post levels thread.
ImageImageImageImageImage | Image | Image
Sharenite | RetroAchievements | NameMC | IGDB
User avatar
Minnakht
Green eyed monster
Posts: 167
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Poland

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Minnakht »

fix that cheap shot in GTA,
all we had to do was follow the damn train CJ

You know, there's an important function for the lower left-side grey pipe. That is two things:
1. It's also slippery, so there's internal logic in left-side grey pipes being slippery
2. When you jump around the blue shell kicker goes onscreen and kicks the shell without you having a chance of being hit.

And even if it kills you, it does so once and then you learn it's there, right? It's also at the level's very beginning, so it doesn't take you long to restart.

##WORLD 3 INTRO##• This is a great intro. My favorite so far. This is how you do it.
Well, thanks! That's my other level. I tried and failed to make it look empty - if I really worked on it it'd just be land and land and land for about a minute of running at full speed, but since I didn't, you can't go a screen without seeing a hoodoo or an armpit or a sandworm skeleton or a Desert Bus stop. I just can't seem to get a proper sense of size in these things.


Also I'd just like to mention that I adore Navel of the Universe. It's a really amazing level. It's two-dimensional - not just 'go right until goal', no, you have to go up AND right and there's stuff all over the place so it feels bustling. In my levels I include terrain features, but it's just not the same. And the size!
When I was making Grand Trunk Arena, I wanted to make it a really tall tree - and it turned out pretty short, actually. I just can't seem to make a level that'd actually have that kind of grandeur, and Navel of the Universe has it.
And the powerup scarcity in it is also really challenging. There aren't all that many places where it's easy to get hurt, or at least I don't remember many - it just requires not slipping up in your exploration, and that's fine.
Image
Image
Image
Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 11 years ago

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Minnakht wrote:And even if it kills you, it does so once and then you learn it's there, right?
Having watched a couple of people play this level as well as played it myself, I can succinctly reply: no. No, no, no, no, no. Even when you know it's there it still kills you repeatedly. Here is the explanation as to why:
  • The shell's trajectory covers the jump exactly.
  • Therefore as soon as you land you must avoid a shell you only saw a split second ago.
  • The jump is wide enough that you must make a running jump.
  • Therefore you have significantly less frames in which to avoid the shell. This combined with the previous point means avoiding the shell is now near impossible on the first attempt.
  • The pipe you are landing on is slippery.
  • Therefore any attempt to dodge the shell will still carry your momentum.
  • Behind the shell are spikes.
  • Therefore your momentum from avoiding the shell is likely to carry you into the spikes.
If there was a competition to design a trap in an icy level to take a cheap hit off the player, I'd vote for this section of your level to win. Everything about it screams "dick move" and "just give up and tank the hit". It would not be out of place in an IWTBTG clone.
Minnakht wrote:2. When you jump around the blue shell kicker goes onscreen and kicks the shell without you having a chance of being hit.
That's far from being adequate. When the best solution is to mess about with the engine to spawn an enemy earlier than it should be spawned, that's a major problem.
User avatar
Minnakht
Green eyed monster
Posts: 167
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Poland

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Minnakht »

Another thing you can do is take the shell of one of those red Goopas and carry it around. In that jump, you don't even get a chance to turn away for the blue shell to hit your back, so you reliably block it with the shell.

This, and there are warning blue coins there. No one's telling you to rush on, you can just walk to to end of the platform where the blue coin is to see the blue shell kicker and have adequate time to dodge it.

I'm really sorry you can't rush headlong into danger there and have to think of something.
If you really want to just rush, tanking the hit is possible - you get two powerups in the level even before that part.
Image
Image
Image
Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 11 years ago

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Minnakht wrote:This, and there are warning blue coins there.
We discussed the coins too. Blue coins aren't a warning unless you explicitly state in the level that they are. A blue coin is worth 5 coins. If a player sees blue coins around the level - knowing that collecting 20 will net an extra life - do you think they'll avoid them? No. They'll aim to get them.
Minnakht wrote:I'm really sorry you can't rush headlong into danger there and have to think of something.
You're really missing the point here. This isn't a "rush headlong into danger". Rushing is when you know there's danger there but you press on anyway. The offensive part about this obstacle is that you can't see the shell or the spikes until you're already midair partway through the jump.
Minnakht wrote:If you really want to just rush, tanking the hit is possible - you get two powerups in the level even before that part.
Well that's not going to help on the first playthough is it?

Can you really not see that part of your level requires the player to have either already played that part (and presumably failed) or to be psychic in order to avoid a hit? Can you really not see how problematic this is?

Let me put it to you bluntly: change it yourself or someone will change it for you.
User avatar
Minnakht
Green eyed monster
Posts: 167
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Poland

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Minnakht »

Can you really not see that part of your level requires the player to have either already played that part (and presumably failed) (...) Can you really not see how problematic this is?
Most levels feature that kind of thing where you get better at them because you learn where the hazards are and how to deal with them. In fact, I think I heard raocow mention that multiple times...
There are ways to get past that obstacle, and sadly, just having reaction times isn't one there - you have to stop and think of a way, and there are several.

That said, I'll have to make changes anyway, since the devkit music changes are problematic for the later sections and I have an oddly high amount of text references to vegetables which are not vegetables now.
And I've just thought of a thing that'll fix the problem for this cheap shot AND the two next cheap shots in section 2, which I feel are actually more problematic than that one. So I'll just go implement that now.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Octagon
zentraidon
Posts: 67
Joined: 12 years ago
Pronouns: she

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Octagon »

Somehow I missed this entire thread until now. Sorry for just kinda leaving you with my mess of a level again.

I got overambitious with Castle of the Above and Elsewhere and it ended up all over the place.
If you deem the level design worth including at all (I have a habit of using too many different enemy types, and I agree about offscreen threats being a problem), I will split the Elsewhere off into a new level which I may resubmit for a later episode and focus on fixing the castle/Above for now, because both parts definitely need work, the Elsewhere is the jankier part, and the current two-levels-in-one state is an inconsistent monstrosity that's too big to ensure that everything works.
•The pit past the yellow switch was supposed to be kind of a secret (going down there grants you a leek and a cape), and I thought you were bound to find the hidden block by jumping into the air once or twice, which I mistakenly thought every Mario player would do as soon as they fall into a seemingly inescapable hole.
The P-switch makes a door appear at the warp - I failed to put the warp on the door layer though.
Image WHAT DOES THE P STAND FOR
User avatar
Isrieri
Creatively Bankrupt
Posts: 95
Joined: 11 years ago
Pronouns: Male

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread: Part 2

Post by Isrieri »

Bump.

I've got reviews for most of the levels in the A2XT List. You can find a link to the review on the wiki, or just click here.

Discuss. If you'd like. Call me out. That works too.

Oh and possible SPOILERS WITHIN.
User avatar
docopoper
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla non pharetra enim, nec maximus odio.
Posts: 78
Joined: 12 years ago
First name: Shane Farrell
Pronouns: they/he
Location: Ireland

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by docopoper »

Wow. Also I really like the list at the start. It's very interesting to see the sort of general trend with a creator's levels.

Also wow some people have made a lot of levels! And here's me waiting for the submission period to start to make any levels. xD
The first thing I would do with infinite power would be to make myself a cave where I could look at my shadow forever.

Image <- Go team Yeah Doctor Shemp.!
Image <- That's everyone being nice to me. ^^

I made a game called Utter Confusion! Play it! :D
It's a lot of fun and has been incredibly popular at every indie game dev party I've brought it to.
Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 11 years ago

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by Doctor Shemp »

Wow, looking at the list, Willhart continues to be based as always and some people should perhaps just stop.

I'm surprised you gave my level Don't Panic! Just Chill a Decent and not worse. I suppose I could work on it to make it better, but I'd rather not and just leave it out of the game. If there is a dearth of good levels though then I could try and improve it for inclusion. There's only 28 good levels and three excellent ones so far, so that might be the case, but I'll see how things go. I have a couple of other ideas but they'll both take a while to execute - one in particular may not even be possible as it involves keeping things in sync with the music, which isn't possible with pausing, and doing it via sounds make come out weird - and I really should be working on my SMWC YI level.

As for guitar-wielding enemies, I wish I could sprite that well! The rockmen probably need work as it is. They'd be a good Snifit replacement and I could scrap the collapsing section to give them a short appearance.

I'm a little hesistant about using Wohlbuilder again since last time I used it for this level it made every single block and every single NPC trigger Digger Reveal 2 on every single Event action, which was a massive pain. I'll get back into it though.
User avatar
raekuul
2 Nephi 2:25-27
Posts: 1842
Joined: 15 years ago
First name: Pokota
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: Deti Plains
Contact:

Re: Isrieri's Huge Review/Critique Thread

Post by raekuul »

Why were you expecting a stopwatch in Approaching the Sand Temple?

As far as it being meh, do you have any suggestions, and did you go for the Raocoins?
Games Beaten In 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024
Image
Post Reply