A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)

[Hoeloe]

To be honest, we should kinda wait until levels start getting accepted, then work the plot around the levels. I wasn't a huge fan of the disconnect between the plot and the levels in Episode 1.

I think there are some major story elements that should be at least vaguely planned out in advance (such as the allegiance of the Uncles, how the plot ties in from episode 1, etc.), and then shape the details based on the levels. There's a problem with either extreme here. Writing all the plot first and shoving unrelated levels in creates a disconnect between the levels and the plot, which is what happened in Episode 1, but similarly, creating all the levels first and then trying to write a plot around it will almost invariably end up with a totally nonsensical plot. The happy medium should probably be a vague idea of how things could play out, which gives a basic story structure, but is still malleable enough to twist to fit the levels.

As an example, an vague plot idea could be "Uncles are using Demo and friends for their own gain". This isn't particularly detailed, and can be easily twisted to fit the levels, but at the same time allows the plot to have some focus and not just end up as random non-sequiturs.

[SAJewers]

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant: come up with something vague, but but let the plot take flesh around the levels.

[Imaynotbehere4long]

The only thing I've really decided that I'd like the first level to be another remake level like in Episode 1 ans ASMBXT. What I was thinking is have that remake level kick off Episode 2 somehow.

I'd honestly rather not have any remakes, especially remakes of Mario levels. I'm thinking it would be better to have the first level pick up where episode 1 left off and have the player play as Sheath going through the post-production void (it could be a puzzle/tutorial level where the player has to reassemble the reality stabilizer or something).

Writing all the plot first and shoving unrelated levels in creates a disconnect between the levels and the plot, which is what happened in Episode 1

Am I the only one who didn't really have a problem with this? I mean, if you think about it, the official Mario games aren't too different: you have a bunch of different, varied worlds (or galaxies) with their own sub-plots that don't (or rarely) extend outside of said worlds/galaxies, and they're all linked only vaguely by the overarching plot that isn't (or rarely) referenced outside the hub and final level/galaxy.

[SAJewers]

Don't worry, it won't be a mario level.

As for a tutorial, don't worry about that, since Episode 1 already covered it, and it was already decided the episodes would/should be played in order.

[WestonSmith]

Here's an exercise for y'all. Can someone summarize the plot of Episode 1 for me? Pretend I know literally nothing about raocow, Demo, etc. I'm an outsider looking for a wikipedia entry explaining what this game is about.

Can someone provide such a synopsis?

[Rixithechao]

Here's an exercise for y'all. Can someone summarize the plot of Episode 1 for me? Pretend I know literally nothing about raocow, Demo, etc. I'm an outsider looking for a wikipedia entry explaining what this game is about.

Can someone provide such a synopsis?

We need this and character bios for level creators to be able to reference. Not to dictate, but to inform. That's an important part of any good story bible, it's what I recommended they do back when the idea first came about, and it looks like it wasn't an area they decided to focus on.

I'm not saying we have to go into the level of detail I did with my bios, but certainly more than they did in the story bible.

Ok so the games chronologically go Asmbxt - A2xt - ASMT

But ASMT is referenced in A2XT's hub: the Chargin' Chucks talk about how they "don't work for King Charles anymore," (and why would they mention that if Demo hadn't met them?) and I'm pretty sure King Charles himself makes an appearance saying that he turned good after ASMT.

By the way, how much of the story bible will be ignored? I've even heard talks about changing who the player characters are, but has anything been decided on yet?

According to the TV Tropes page:

According to one of A2XT's story writers on the forums (to explain why King Charles appears and claims to have been defeated by Demo even though the game takes place before ASMT) there are a lot of different King Charleses and Demo has a habit of just happening to defeat a lot of them.

So either Dem or darky handwaved this bit and at least one website already considers A2XT a prequel to ASMT.

To be honest, we should kinda wait until levels start getting accepted, then work the plot around the levels. I wasn't a huge fan of the disconnect between the plot and the levels in Episode 1.

I think there are some major story elements that should be at least vaguely planned out in advance (such as the allegiance of the Uncles, how the plot ties in from episode 1, etc.), and then shape the details based on the levels. There's a problem with either extreme here. Writing all the plot first and shoving unrelated levels in creates a disconnect between the levels and the plot, which is what happened in Episode 1, but similarly, creating all the levels first and then trying to write a plot around it will almost invariably end up with a totally nonsensical plot. The happy medium should probably be a vague idea of how things could play out, which gives a basic story structure, but is still malleable enough to twist to fit the levels.

As an example, an vague plot idea could be "Uncles are using Demo and friends for their own gain". This isn't particularly detailed, and can be easily twisted to fit the levels, but at the same time allows the plot to have some focus and not just end up as random non-sequiturs.

No matter how we go about it, we should try to keep the momentum of the plot fairly consistent this time around. If I remember correctly, with Episode 1 we started out with a massive infodump, and then in Worlds 2 and 3 not only did much of the major levels and cutscenes have nothing to do with the story arc that World 1 established, but the ones that did were nothing but exposition dumps. Then, come world 4, that plot is mostly forgotten in favor of the siblings and they take the focus until the final level, which hastily ties it back to the super leeks and the instability of reality and all that.

The silly non-sequitur levels of episode 1 were cool and memorable, but they did disrupt what flow the story had. I propose that big and cool non-sequitur levels like Sheath Partakes in an Interlude, The Good, The Bad and the Stupid, The Castle of the World, etc. be made bonus levels for each world and we make the end-of-world levels after the worlds have been established.

[SAJewers]

Well, I consider A2XT to be after ASMT, so let's go with that.

Here's an exercise for y'all. Can someone summarize the plot of Episode 1 for me? Pretend I know literally nothing about raocow, Demo, etc. I'm an outsider looking for a wikipedia entry explaining what this game is about.

Can someone provide such a synopsis?

We need this and character bios for level creators to be able to reference. Not to dictate, but to inform. That's an important part of any good story bible, it's what I recommended they do back when the idea first came about, and it looks like it wasn't an area they decided to focus on.

I'm not saying we have to go into the level of detail I did with my bios, but certainly more than they did in the story bible.

Ok so the games chronologically go Asmbxt - A2xt - ASMT

But ASMT is referenced in A2XT's hub: the Chargin' Chucks talk about how they "don't work for King Charles anymore," (and why would they mention that if Demo hadn't met them?) and I'm pretty sure King Charles himself makes an appearance saying that he turned good after ASMT.

By the way, how much of the story bible will be ignored? I've even heard talks about changing who the player characters are, but has anything been decided on yet?

<span>According to [url=<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/raocow]the">http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/raocow]the</a> TV Tropes page[/url]:</span>

According to one of A2XT's story writers on the forums (to explain why King Charles appears and claims to have been defeated by Demo even though the game takes place before ASMT) there are a lot of different King Charleses and Demo has a habit of just happening to defeat a lot of them.

So either Dem or darky handwaved this bit and at least one website already considers A2XT a prequel to ASMT.

To be honest, we should kinda wait until levels start getting accepted, then work the plot around the levels. I wasn't a huge fan of the disconnect between the plot and the levels in Episode 1.

I think there are some major story elements that should be at least vaguely planned out in advance (such as the allegiance of the Uncles, how the plot ties in from episode 1, etc.), and then shape the details based on the levels. There's a problem with either extreme here. Writing all the plot first and shoving unrelated levels in creates a disconnect between the levels and the plot, which is what happened in Episode 1, but similarly, creating all the levels first and then trying to write a plot around it will almost invariably end up with a totally nonsensical plot. The happy medium should probably be a vague idea of how things could play out, which gives a basic story structure, but is still malleable enough to twist to fit the levels.

As an example, an vague plot idea could be "Uncles are using Demo and friends for their own gain". This isn't particularly detailed, and can be easily twisted to fit the levels, but at the same time allows the plot to have some focus and not just end up as random non-sequiturs.

No matter how we go about it, we should try to keep the momentum of the plot fairly consistent this time around. If I remember correctly, with Episode 1 we started out with a massive infodump, and then in Worlds 2 and 3 not only did much of the major levels and cutscenes have nothing to do with the story arc that World 1 established, but the ones that did were nothing but exposition dumps. Then, come world 4, that plot is mostly forgotten in favor of the siblings and they take the focus until the final level, which hastily ties it back to the super leeks and the instability of reality and all that.

The silly non-sequitur levels of episode 1 were cool and memorable, but they did disrupt what flow the story had. I propose that big and cool non-sequitur levels like Sheath Partakes in an Interlude, The Good, The Bad and the Stupid, The Castle of the World, etc. be made bonus levels for each world and we make the end-of-world levels after the worlds have been established.

A lot of that was because Johnson McCain had to be in world 4, and the first 3 levels ended up without much plot at all.

If we go with the Uncles in Episode 2, then we should bring them in near the start this time, meaning either a level in World 1 or 2 that introduces them, or a cutscene that brings them into the picture near the beginning (for example, end boss of world 1 says he's working for Uncle Denmark or something).

Also, whatever we come up with in the plot, someone will have to make sure that a level or something integrates that. In Episode 1, Garish had an Army, but we never saw the army outside of World 4's Cutscene and the Garish fight in World 7. If We decide Uncle Denmark has an army or something, then we'd probably need a level where you fight Uncle Denmark's Army.

[Rixithechao]

Well, I consider A2XT to be after ASMT, so let's go with that.

Looking at the TV Tropes page for the ASMT series (and yeah, this is TV Tropes again so it's not the absolute authority on the matter), they give the order as A1XT > A2XT > ASMT. Specifically, they mention A1XT being a prequel to ASMT and A2XT happening right after A1XT. I can't confirm whether those statements are accurate or whether they're based on info from the games themselves/official descriptions or just assertions by darky and Dem, I'll have to go dig into the games and stuff.

Maybe we should just declare the ASMBXT games a separate continuity from ASMT. Idk. All I know for sure is that MaGLX2 is 126% canon.

A lot of that was because Johnson McCain had to be in world 4, and the first 3 levels ended up without much plot at all.

If we go with the Uncles in Episode 2, then we should bring them in near the start this time, meaning either a level in World 1 or 2 that introduces them, or a cutscene that brings them into the picture near the beginning (for example, end boss of world 1 says he's working for Uncle Denmark or something).

Also, whatever we come up with in the plot, someone will have to make sure that a level or something integrates that. In Episode 1, Garish had an Army, but we never saw the army outside of World 4's Cutscene and the Garish fight in World 7. If We decide Uncle Denmark has an army or something, then we'd probably need a level where you fight Uncle Denmark's Army.

Exactly. As I wrote in the boss thread:

The uncles, first showing up around late World 1 to early World 2, start out as allies as well, helping the characters recover the super leeks and track down and destroy several artifacts that are supposedly the sources of the dimensional instability. Around World 3 or 4 it's revealed that the artifacts aren't causing the issue and are actually the keys to surviving the end of reality, and at that point the Uncles betray Demo and company and become the main villains of the game.

We can disregard the specific details about the pieces of the Post-Optimal (or whatever it'd be called if we end up using the idea) for now and just go with Hoeloe's suggestion of "the uncles are using Demo and company for their own gain", but I think that would be the ideal rough structure for those story beats.

[Voltgloss]

To add to Rockythechao's post: I suggest Pandamona be teed up as the apparent main antagonist at the beginning of the game, out to destroy the world. Then the Uncles are revealed midway through the game to be the real primary antagonists.

I know there are levels/boss fights that have been made, and/or are being made, with Pandamona as Demo's opponent. She could be a "Disc One Final Boss" defeated at the end of World 4; or she could stick around for the entirety of the game. I do think it would be interesting for her to be at odds with the Uncles. Sort of Chaotic Evil vs. Lawful Evil; Pandamona wants to destroy the world, the Uncles want to control it.

[SAJewers]

How about have Pandamonda be resurrected by one of the Uncles and working under them? I'm honestly not a fan of essentially splitting the game into 2 halves, and a different antagonist for each half.

Well, I consider A2XT to be after ASMT, so let's go with that.

<span>Looking at [url=<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/V ... MarioThing]the">http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/V ... MarioThing]the</a> TV Tropes page for the ASMT series[/url] (and yeah, this is TV Tropes again so it's not the absolute authority on the matter), they give the order as A1XT > A2XT > ASMT. Specifically, they mention A1XT being a prequel to ASMT and A2XT happening right after A1XT. I can't confirm whether those statements are accurate or whether they're based on info from the games themselves/official descriptions or just assertions by darky and Dem, I'll have to go dig into the games and stuff.</span>

Maybe we should just declare the ASMBXT games a separate continuity from ASMT. Idk. All I know for sure is that MaGLX2 is 126% canon.

When AXMT/A1XT/ASMBXT/whatever was started, raocow suggested it be an Episode 0 to ASMT, but I'm not sure that was ever made official. I'm fine with having AXMT being before ASMT, But A2XT Episode 1 should occur After ASMT in the timeline. I kinda think of the timeline this way:

ASMBXT > ASMT & AZCT > A2XT Ep1 > A2XT Ep2

A2MT and the MAGL series would be alternate universe side-cannons, ACZT's spot on the tmeline being debatable.

[Rixithechao]

I can't really see Pandamona working under someone else again after breaking the box limiting her powers and declaring her intent to kill the Artist and conquer and/or destroy the universe at the end of Ep. 1.

But that's just me, and I'm a bit biased being the guy working on a big, flashy boss battle against her

[Hoeloe]

When AXMT/A1XT/ASMBXT/whatever was started, raocow suggested it be an Episode 0 to ASMT, but I'm not sure that was ever made official. I'm fine with having AXMT being before ASMT, But A2XT Episode 1 should occur After ASMT in the timeline. I kinda think of the timeline this way:

ASMBXT > ASMT & AZCT > A2XT Ep1 > A2XT Ep2

A2MT and the MAGL series would be alternate universe side-cannons, ACZT's spot on the tmeline being debatable.

A2XT does have a lot of direct links to ASXT though, so it seems weird to separate them like that. I always thought of it as going more like:

ASXT > A2XT > UNFILLED GAP > ASMT

As for the plot of episode 2, the only bit I really have a strong attachment to is the identity of the Artist, because I think that's hilarious and awesome.

[ano0maly]

Calling it ASXT makes me confuse it with ATXS

How about considering ASMT and A2XT split timelines from ASMBXT?

[Hoeloe]

Calling it ASXT makes me confuse it with ATXS

How about considering ASMT and A2XT split timelines from ASMBXT?

In theory that could work, considering the plot of A2XT is basically all the split timelines anyway.

[SAJewers]

Calling it ASXT makes me confuse it with ATXS

How about considering ASMT and A2XT split timelines from ASMBXT?

We could go with AXMT, which IIRC was the original acronym before it got renamed ASMBXT.

[docopoper]

Aww man, it's the Zelda timeline.

[WasabiJellyfish]

How about have Pandamonda be resurrected by one of the Uncles and working under them? I'm honestly not a fan of essentially splitting the game into 2 halves, and a different antagonist for each half.

What's wrong with a really good/fun twist? It wouldn't split it into halves it'd make it into something super fun with 3 acts.
For example:
Act 1 Pandamona is the villain and the mains are working with the Uncles to find the artifacts or whatever
Act 2 Pandamona is defeated and you find out after defeating her that oh no the Uncles are actually doing the worse thing (she can still be doing bad things, but you have to set up the Uncles as more powerful) [End of act 2 could be the Uncles putting their master plan into motion/"killing" or heavily defeating the main characters.]
Act 3 Main characters bringing it back around town leading up to the CLIMACTIC FINISH

[romajiQuadhash]

How about have Pandamonda be resurrected by one of the Uncles and working under them? I'm honestly not a fan of essentially splitting the game into 2 halves, and a different antagonist for each half.

What's wrong with a really good/fun twist? It wouldn't split it into halves it'd make it into something super fun with 3 acts.
For example:
Act 1 Pandamona is the villain and the mains are working with the Uncles to find the artifacts or whatever
Act 2 Pandamona is defeated and you find out after defeating her that oh no the Uncles are actually doing the worse thing (she can still be doing bad things, but you have to set up the Uncles as more powerful) [End of act 2 could be the Uncles putting their master plan into motion/"killing" or heavily defeating the main characters.]
Act 3 Main characters bringing it back around town leading up to the CLIMACTIC FINISH

It still has the halves with a twist thing

[WasabiJellyfish]

It still has the halves with a twist thing

I thought he meant like it would feel like it split the game into two seperate halves, which I really don't think it would.

[ztarwuff]

Given that most people have created levels in a total plot vacuum, don't you think it's a bit premature to discuss a plot?

[Rixithechao]

It's certainly too early to commit to a plot, but as long as we don't get too attached to any one set of ideas there should be no harm in brainstorming.

On the topic of twists, here's an idea: instead of having the destruction of the universe happen quickly at the end of the game like in Episode 1, it begins at the end of Act 2/World 5/6/7.

Maybe Pandamona did it, maybe the Uncles' plans failed or were disrupted by Panda or Demo and company, or one or two of the uncles betray the others or some other thing. Regardless of the details, the universe goes terminal; it doesn't fall apart immediately, but it is dying and there's nothing anyone can do about it. The goal of the last stretch of the game becomes not only escaping the doomed reality, but preventing the Uncles -- or at least whichever ones remain villains until the end -- and/or Pandamona from getting out as well and screwing stuff up in the next one.

[romajiQuadhash]

Ok that sounds nice.
I say last 20% of the game should be that.

[SAJewers]

Can we not multiple acts pertaining to one episode? I'd rather have each episode be one flowing plot. Make Episode 1 = Act 1, Ep2 = Act 2, etc.

[WasabiJellyfish]

It's certainly too early to commit to a plot, but as long as we don't get too attached to any one set of ideas there should be no harm in brainstorming.

On the topic of twists, here's an idea: instead of having the destruction of the universe happen quickly at the end of the game like in Episode 1, it begins at the end of Act 2/World 5/6/7.

Maybe Pandamona did it, maybe the Uncles' plans failed or were disrupted by Panda or Demo and company, or one or two of the uncles betray the others or some other thing. Regardless of the details, the universe goes terminal; it doesn't fall apart immediately, but it is dying and there's nothing anyone can do about it. The goal of the last stretch of the game becomes not only escaping the doomed reality, but preventing the Uncles -- or at least whichever ones remain villains until the end -- and/or Pandamona from getting out as well and screwing stuff up in the next one.

Kinda want a scene where Broadsword and another uncle (@sbestos?) stay back and like hold off the world dying somehow so Demo and Co. can escape. Gotta rake in those feels yo.

[Rixithechao]

Can we not multiple acts pertaining to one episode? I'd rather have each episode be one flowing plot. Make Episode 1 = Act 1, Ep2 = Act 2, etc.

I don't think folks are talking about it in terms of formal division into acts or chapters complete with their own title cards and whatnot, but rather the 3-act structure of Setup, Confrontation and Resolution.

In terms of story beats, it would be Start > Inciting Incident > Turning Point 1 > Turning Point 2 > Climax > Ending. To use Episode 1 as an example:

Start/Inciting Incident:
The Super Leeks go missing, and alternate reality Kood shows up going on about dimensional instability and gives cryptically-blatant foreshadowing for Episode 3. Our heroes go to investigate.

Turning Point 1:
Our heroes inadvertently free the siblings, who begin hunting Demo.

Turning Point 2:
Pily gives exposition about the siblings and Demo and Iris, asking them to free their brothers and sisters from the Artist's mind control.

Climax:
Demo and company storm the final level and confront and defeat Science.

Ending:
Science reveals that he was using the Super Leeks to save the universe. Pandamona destroys the machine keeping the universe stable and Sheath escapes the collapse of reality via the sacred turtle dove.