A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Okay guys I think Pumpernickle should really be considered as leader of the Uncles for a couple of reasons.
1) The fact he's the only nonbipedal ABCD is something that could be had a lot of fun with, like that he's actually not an ABCD at all or that he's resentful of everyone else that their classifications actually describe them. You could also make him an AQCD and that he wants to destroy order in the universe so his classifier isn't out of order cause it really annoys him.
Like I don't really mind what I just think that him not being bipedal can give him a lot of options.
2) He looks like a final boss/super rad villain dude, he's huge, he could speak slowly and deeply, his eye is a gemstone rather than everyone else's normal eye (again making him different)
3) This one is more just against Broadsword being the leader but what we could do is have Broadsword have a redemption moment where he realises what the Uncles are doing and decides to help demo, maybe with a scene where he holds them off as their base is exploding or a fractured universe is imploding or something like that. You could even play as him in a climactic battle against him and the remaining Uncle. Because he does seem to genuinely like Demo and Broadsword is a pretty rad dude it'd be nice to see him come back and be a good guy in the end.
1) The fact he's the only nonbipedal ABCD is something that could be had a lot of fun with, like that he's actually not an ABCD at all or that he's resentful of everyone else that their classifications actually describe them. You could also make him an AQCD and that he wants to destroy order in the universe so his classifier isn't out of order cause it really annoys him.
Like I don't really mind what I just think that him not being bipedal can give him a lot of options.
2) He looks like a final boss/super rad villain dude, he's huge, he could speak slowly and deeply, his eye is a gemstone rather than everyone else's normal eye (again making him different)
3) This one is more just against Broadsword being the leader but what we could do is have Broadsword have a redemption moment where he realises what the Uncles are doing and decides to help demo, maybe with a scene where he holds them off as their base is exploding or a fractured universe is imploding or something like that. You could even play as him in a climactic battle against him and the remaining Uncle. Because he does seem to genuinely like Demo and Broadsword is a pretty rad dude it'd be nice to see him come back and be a good guy in the end.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
It would be super cool to get to play as broadsword. There could even be lua shenanigans to give him an extended moveset.
Also we could make the plot of this episode be specifically that it's a retcon of the previous episode. I feel like that would be in character for this game.
Also we could make the plot of this episode be specifically that it's a retcon of the previous episode. I feel like that would be in character for this game.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Just to clarify, you're talking about this, right?:SAJewers wrote:Just a note that we may not even use that level, since there was talk of another idea that uses the tutorial.
Hoeloe wrote:
If so, I have an idea: my level is still first, but after the "Post Post-Production Void" cut-scene, everyone except Sheath run off to the tutorial level (which, in-game, is like one of those carnival obstacle-houses with the entrance and exit right by each other). Sheath tries to warn them that it's just a tutorial level and will just bring them right back to where they are, but they ignore her. The music switches back to Modri - Shades (in the rain), and Sheath, noticeably saddened, has a brief introspection about how, no matter what she does, she'll always just "be there." The cut-scene ends, leading to the map, which opens a path to the tutorial level (which plays basically the same as conceptualized, except without Sheath). At the end of the tutorial level:
raocow: Aww, what? We're right back where we were!
Sheath: I tried to warn you--
Demo: I can't believe nobody warned us about this!
Sheath: ...*sigh*...
Kood or Iris: Well, there's nothing we can do about it, now. Let's go!
Then the tutorial ends and leads to the first main level.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Sorry for the incoming wall of text, everyone!
From the graphics thread:
To be honest, you've kind of been setting yourself up for potential disappointment by trying to push this level through reviews and make it the first level in the game. When you set off on your own and make a story-heavy level dependent on specific plot points so early in a collab game's development, you risk conflicts with other levels or making something that isn't received well by others, and then it becomes this big kerfuffle of a thing.
And, well, I'm a bit of a hypocrite for saying this since I'm the one going around being all "ooh this plot twist would be really awesome/funny and I'd really like to see it happen" and impulsively making boss fights and including specific details and dialogue in my dev videos and so on. As it is, my plan is to submit my own stuff with complete cutscenes/etc, but I'll be doing so with the understanding and expectation that if my levels do get accepted I'll have to change most of the story-related stuff -- if not all of it -- to accommodate the final plot, not the other way around.
With that said, I personally enjoyed your level (at least, the version I played, may be outdated now). Don't take this as a proper/official review or anything, but
As for keeping your level in the game, I can think of a few ways to make it work without it being the first level:
...er, I mean. *ahem* The above options do all still hinge on and/or or impose their own plot conditions, so to be safe we should talk them over and wait a bit longer for the story to be developed further.
TL;DR version:
For what it's worth, imaynotbehere4long, I personally like your level and appreciate what you're going for, but imo you're being a bit too rigid about its' placement in the game. If you're willing to be a bit more flexible about it and accommodate the game and story instead of vice-versa, we can make it work and the story could end up that much stronger for it.
From the graphics thread:
The discussion in question -- if you're referring to the one I'm thinking of, SAJ, apologies if not -- was mostly me being confused on what the current status of the tutorial was and whether we would be using your level or not.Imaynotbehere4long wrote:Where was this talk at? I'm sure we can work out some kind of compromise that uses the tutorial, but still lets my level be first.SAJewers wrote:Just a note that we may not even use that level, since there was talk of another idea that uses the tutorial.
Unfortunately, I made my level too plot-focused for that to be easily doable. My reasoning was that if I made a heavily plot-focused level, it would be more likely to get attention (and, by extension, reviews) than a level that could easily be moved to Episode 3 in case of a surplus. It looks like that might backfire on me, though.raocow wrote:well, like, if there is work done in the levle [sic], even if it's not used as a tutorial maybe it can be turned into a level level !
To be honest, you've kind of been setting yourself up for potential disappointment by trying to push this level through reviews and make it the first level in the game. When you set off on your own and make a story-heavy level dependent on specific plot points so early in a collab game's development, you risk conflicts with other levels or making something that isn't received well by others, and then it becomes this big kerfuffle of a thing.
And, well, I'm a bit of a hypocrite for saying this since I'm the one going around being all "ooh this plot twist would be really awesome/funny and I'd really like to see it happen" and impulsively making boss fights and including specific details and dialogue in my dev videos and so on. As it is, my plan is to submit my own stuff with complete cutscenes/etc, but I'll be doing so with the understanding and expectation that if my levels do get accepted I'll have to change most of the story-related stuff -- if not all of it -- to accommodate the final plot, not the other way around.
With that said, I personally enjoyed your level (at least, the version I played, may be outdated now). Don't take this as a proper/official review or anything, but
As for keeping your level in the game, I can think of a few ways to make it work without it being the first level:
- Have the characters all show up in the new universe with no explanation and no idea why they're all still alive, then later have your level as a flashback of some sort. It may still need some changes to work with any conflicting story details we've established at that point, and we'd have to figure out how to bring it up without disrupting the game's pacing too much... perhaps a collection of bonus levels that cover stuff that happened off-screen in A2XT1 or other past games (we could have a level with the Key boss preparing for the final confrontation, whatever Demo and company were up to while Sheath was off having her adventures in other games, stuff like that).
- Change everything except most of the layout and the core gameplay -- remove the current story stuff but keep the ideas aside for potential future use in the final tutorial or other levels/cutscenes, change the setting from the PPV to another setting, like a castle or ghost house or cave or something, and replace the super leeks with keys or some other kind of macguffin. This would require a lot of extra effort, but the end result could be something fantastic.
- If we go with the idea of the Weird/Abstract world being the result of the uncles/Cronot(r?)ons' plans failing or backfiring, or some similar thing, you could rework your level to act as the intro level of that world. It could even still take place in the PPV, but the initial premise and the end goal/result are different; perhaps after A2XT1, Sheath just escaped into the next reality, but this time around she's determined to try and reconstruct this reality; she then finds Science's reality stabilizer machine from Ep. 1 and sets out to reboot existence as per the level. Her efforts aren't enough to completely save the universe but she manages to restore it to a stable-enough emergency state: the weird world.
- Similar to the above, but instead, through some as-of-yet undecided plot stuff -- maybe she's given the mission and means by the Chronotons -- Sheath travels back in time to salvage stuff from the dying Ep. 1 'verse. Perhaps the Chronotons need the Super Leeks to power the R.E.T.C.O.N.? Ooh, maybe they need Kood's ring! Maybe they need Kood, and that's why he disappeared at the last moment -- because future!Sheath time-napped him!
...er, I mean. *ahem* The above options do all still hinge on and/or or impose their own plot conditions, so to be safe we should talk them over and wait a bit longer for the story to be developed further.
TL;DR version:
For what it's worth, imaynotbehere4long, I personally like your level and appreciate what you're going for, but imo you're being a bit too rigid about its' placement in the game. If you're willing to be a bit more flexible about it and accommodate the game and story instead of vice-versa, we can make it work and the story could end up that much stronger for it.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Yeah, I admit that I knew the risks going in, but I also did my best to make its plot as malleable as possible. The only long-term effect (I anticipated that) my level would have on the plot is that Sheath, Demo, Iris, raocow, and Pandamona (and maybe Calleoca) are from Analog Funk, Kood has other Kood's memories (so levels made for Kood that reference Episode 1 wouldn't be auto-non-canon'd), everyone else is from Episode 2, and the rest of Episode 1, along with all of its loose ends (besides Pandamona), don't exist anymore (and as such, couldn't be revisited, even through time travel; heck, maybe, at some point, someone makes another Ep 1, and that would explain the Ep. 1 Lua update in-game).Rockythechao wrote:To be honest, you've kind of been setting yourself up for potential disappointment by trying to push this level through reviews and make it the first level in the game. When you set off on your own and make a story-heavy level dependent on specific plot points so early in a collab game's development, you risk conflicts with other levels or making something that isn't received well by others, and then it becomes this big kerfuffle of a thing.
And, well, I'm a bit of a hypocrite for saying this since I'm the one going around being all "ooh this plot twist would be really awesome/funny and I'd really like to see it happen" and impulsively making boss fights and including specific details and dialogue in my dev videos and so on. As it is, my plan is to submit my own stuff with complete cutscenes/etc, but I'll be doing so with the understanding and expectation that if my levels do get accepted I'll have to change most of the story-related stuff -- if not all of it -- to accommodate the final plot, not the other way around.
The way I saw it, pretty much any plot could work with how I made the level, as it basically restarts the plot on a clean slate while still allowing references to the previous episode; I didn't anticipate that the plan was to have Sheath be the sole survivor of Episode 1, among other things (like there being plans for a different tutorial to be at the start).
Besides, wasn't the plan to build the plot around the levels that got accepted, not the other way around? :D
*shots fired*SAJewers wrote:To be honest, we should kinda wait until levels start getting accepted, then work the plot around the levels. I wasn't a huge fan of the disconnect between the plot and the levels in Episode 1.
Rockythechao wrote:With that said, I personally enjoyed your level (at least, the version I played, may be outdated now). Don't take this as a proper/official review or anything, but
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
One thing: because the level uses SMW stars to track progress, the message where Sheath says that she got all the Super Leeks will pop up if the player revisits the level, and it will throw off the intro text at the beginning (since it's timed to the song). It was this that reminded me to even put the restriction of it being the first level and inaccessible afterward on the Wiki at all, and it's another reason why I have the "Auto-Start Level or bust" mentality. I could probably fix this with Lua, but on top of the fact that I'd basically have to learn a whole programming language, I've been getting a lot of school work recently (plus, finals are coming up in a couple weeks), so I don't exactly have the time for it right now (I find myself barely having time to fix the vanilla SMBX related issues, but maybe I just suck at time management).Rockythechao wrote:As for keeping your level in the game, I can think of a few ways to make it work without it being the first level:
Also, don't forget about my idea to make the tutorial work without making my level not-first; it's in the post directly above yours.
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
TL;DR version:Rockythechao wrote:TL;DR version:
For what it's worth, imaynotbehere4long, I personally like your level and appreciate what you're going for, but imo you're being a bit too rigid about its' placement in the game. If you're willing to be a bit more flexible about it and accommodate the game and story instead of vice-versa, we can make it work and the story could end up that much stronger for it.
Like I said: I'm only being rigid because I believe my level to be malleable as is, even if the reality is that this isn't the case. Plus, the level was made under the impression that the plot would accommodate the levels instead of vice versa. However, I'm aware that these things change, and I'm willing to see what I can do to get my level accepted in this ever-changing world in which we live in.
P.S. You just pinged raocow in the "no raocows allowed" thread (quotes within quotes still trigger the user's Notifications).
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
oh fffffffffffffP.S. You just pinged raocow in the "no raocows allowed" thread (quotes within quotes still trigger the user's Notifications).
Mr. the cow, if you see this please unsee it I'm so sorry
(Will edit with responses to the other points in a bit, for now just gonna ffffff it up here)
----
Okay, let me start off by saying that I realize I probably came off as pretty high-and-mighty with that post. I could've phrased some things a lot better, a lot less harsh and all that. My apologies for that.
Spoilering most of these responses due to length:
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
SAJewers wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:Rockythechao wrote:
The big "TL;DR version" text was as much for you as anyone who didn't want to bother scrolling through all of that text, but looking back it probably seemed really condescending >_<TL;DR version:Rockythechao wrote:TL;DR version:
For what it's worth, imaynotbehere4long, I personally like your level and appreciate what you're going for, but imo you're being a bit too rigid about its' placement in the game. If you're willing to be a bit more flexible about it and accommodate the game and story instead of vice-versa, we can make it work and the story could end up that much stronger for it.
Like I said: I'm only being rigid because I believe my level to be malleable as is, even if the reality is that this isn't the case. Plus, the level was made under the impression that the plot would accommodate the levels instead of vice versa. However, I'm aware that these things change, and I'm willing to see what I can do to get my level accepted in this ever-changing world in which we live in.
Sorry again for all my confusion, misunderstandings and rudeness. I hope there's no hard feelings, and as I've said several times now, I'd be happy to help you with those Lua fixes if you'd like.
Last edited by Rixithechao 8 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
What I specifically meant when I said that was that I did not a huge disconnect between the making of levels, and the making of cutscenes/the plot. The main base of the plot can be made outside what levels come in, and later levels can be made to fit in with that base story. The meat of the story, though, should revolve a bit around the levels. Why have "Demo's Journey Through Time" be just a level and be done with? Why not work that level into the plot?Imaynotbehere4long wrote:*shots fired*SAJewers wrote:To be honest, we should kinda wait until levels start getting accepted, then work the plot around the levels. I wasn't a huge fan of the disconnect between the plot and the levels in Episode 1.
What I want to avoid is something in the plot being set in stone, and then forcing levels to fit in to that without compromise, like the siblings in Ep1 (we could've done so much more, but didn't). Conversely, I don't want the opposite either (levels outright dictating the core plot, and forcing the plot to fit), but that's something I'm less worried about.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Like I wrote in my previous post, I did my best to take into consideration what other people might make, and try to work out my level so that almost anything could work with it, though I didn't anticipate anyone to make something as ambitious as what I did until after the levels were set in stone and the specifics of the plot were being worked out.SAJewers wrote:Conversely, I don't want the opposite either (levels outright dictating the core plot, and forcing the plot to fit), but that's something I'm less worried about.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Still writing the responses to that post, but here's the tl:dr before it gets lost in the continuing conversation:
Sorry for the confusion and sorry for being a butt to you. I hope there's no hard feelings, and if you'd like I can help you with those Lua fixes.
EDIT:
Forgot to post that other idea I mentioned.
So there was talk of replacing the current boss of Hope Rides Alone with a robot raocow and...
I just like connecting the dots; sometimes they make pretty pictures, sometimes they just result in a jumbled mess.
Sorry for the confusion and sorry for being a butt to you. I hope there's no hard feelings, and if you'd like I can help you with those Lua fixes.
EDIT:
Forgot to post that other idea I mentioned.
So there was talk of replacing the current boss of Hope Rides Alone with a robot raocow and...
So yeah, again, just writing down these things my brain frankensteined together. Feel free to do what you want with the ideas or disregard it completely.skype!rocky wrote:Ooooh, okay, okay, gimme a sec here
So the Kering stuff from the beginning of Ep. 1, y'all remember what Darky and Dem were planning for that?
If not, google the name and look at the second result
"(Previously PPR)"
Their original plan for Episode 3 was for the antagonists to be evil versions of talkhaus members led by PPR, who went by the codename "Kering"
Kering can be this robot raocow
and we can get rid of that plot thread so we don't have to worry about for Ep. 3 and 4
two birds, one stone
<LATER>
Okay, another super-specific fanfic-ish idea pulling together a bunch of different stuff, feel free to disregard this, but...
The chronotons need a mission done by someone not originally from this reality. They want raocow for the job since he's not from the ASMT continuity but can't get him to do it for whatever reason, so they build a robot version of him and send him back in time or through a portal or something. The robot goes haywire or becomes self-aware or something and becomes Kering, who you then fight at the end of HRA.
Then they discover Sheath, who they missed before because she's usually just "there too". She's from ATXS, so she's a viable candidate for the mission, so on the second attempt they send her.
And the mission could be the stuff I suggested in the story thread a moment ago. Not necessarily Post Production Void, but one of those potential plot points.
I just like connecting the dots; sometimes they make pretty pictures, sometimes they just result in a jumbled mess.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
So she tries to bring them to the new universe but fails? I think that idea does kinda work and could give Sheath a bit of a character arc.Imaynotbehere4long wrote: If so, I have an idea: my level is still first, but after the "Post Post-Production Void" cut-scene, everyone except Sheath run off to the tutorial level (which, in-game, is like one of those carnival obstacle-houses with the entrance and exit right by each other). Sheath tries to warn them that it's just a tutorial level and will just bring them right back to where they are, but they ignore her. The music switches back to Modri - Shades (in the rain), and Sheath, noticeably saddened, has a brief introspection about how, no matter what she does, she'll always just "be there." The cut-scene ends, leading to the map, which opens a path to the tutorial level (which plays basically the same as conceptualized, except without Sheath). At the end of the tutorial level:
raocow: Aww, what? We're right back where we were!
Sheath: I tried to warn you--
Demo: I can't believe nobody warned us about this!
Sheath: ...*sigh*...
Kood or Iris: Well, there's nothing we can do about it, now. Let's go!
Then the tutorial ends and leads to the first main level.
I mean I don't think anything should be cemented down but I think the idea could work alright.
Last edited by WasabiJellyfish 8 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
The tutorial level will be first. We need to let the player learn the controls and everything; the tutorial will cover everything.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
My level is meant to be a Sheath tutorial, though; in fact, after Pyro's review, I added signs to show the player what he/she has to do to use some of Sheath's moves. It wouldn't hurt to have one tutorial for Sheath at the beginning and one for everyone else right afterward; in fact, doing this would help to emphasize how different Sheath is from the other characters.SAJewers wrote:The tutorial level will be first. We need to let the player learn the controls and everything; the tutorial will cover everything.
@ Rockythechao:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
Rockythechao wrote:
That...that isn't what I was saying at all. What I was saying is that she succeeds and they land near a carnival-obstacle-course-like building, and that's the tutorial level. Sheath was just trying to save everyone some time since, canonically, they all just went through Episode 1 and wouldn't need to go through another tutorial level.WasabiJellyfish wrote:Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
I'd rather one general tutorial that encompasses all characters. The first thing people should be able to do/see should be something like an empty room that visually tells the controls, and allows the player the ability o mess around and familiarize themselves with the engine a bit. Any tutorial stuff should be easy and simple, to allow the player to get used to things without much danger.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Oh wow I really misread sorry, I thought you meant they went back to the start as in going through the level would mean that they wouldn't be able to go to the new universe (from your original script) or whatever and would be sent back to the "start" of the game. I am kind of a fan of the lampshading the tutorial for a sequel though. The void as a library like thing is neat too.Imaynotbehere4long wrote: That...that isn't what I was saying at all. What I was saying is that she succeeds and they land near a carnival-obstacle-course-like building, and that's the tutorial level. Sheath was just trying to save everyone some time since, canonically, they all just went through Episode 1 and wouldn't need to go through another tutorial level.
- Imaynotbehere4long
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Since my level starts off on an empty screen anyway (and the enemies are frozen, making them even less dangerous), would you be willing to accept it if I added the flashing keyboard from Ep. 1's tutorial to the level? That would meet all of your requirements.SAJewers wrote:The first thing people should be able to do/see should be something like an empty room that visually tells the controls, and allows the player the ability o mess around and familiarize themselves with the engine a bit. Any tutorial stuff should be easy and simple, to allow the player to get used to things without much danger.
My SMBX portfolio:
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
- SAJewers
- ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
- Posts: 4200
- Joined: 11 years ago
- Location: Nova Scotia
Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
No. The idea I have is a bit more than just a keyboard graphic in a level.
- Imaynotbehere4long
- Gone, but...yeah, pretty much forgotten.
- Posts: 289
- Joined: 8 years ago
Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Okay, I have another idea: the tutorial level can be first, but just like the one in Episode 1, it doesn't have any bearing on the plot and, at the end, leads to my level via a warp.SAJewers wrote:No. The idea I have is a bit more than just a keyboard graphic in a level.
My SMBX portfolio:
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
- SAJewers
- ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
- Posts: 4200
- Joined: 11 years ago
- Location: Nova Scotia
Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Doable, but it seemed to me that people preferred the tutorial/prologue combo idea. It's up to what people want to do.
- Imaynotbehere4long
- Gone, but...yeah, pretty much forgotten.
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
...and that was what I tried to do in the first place, hence my suggestion of having mine be for Sheath and another level afterward be for the others.SAJewers wrote:it seemed to me that people preferred the tutorial/prologue combo idea.
Let's go back to this:
Is there anything I can do to get you to accept my level as the Auto-Start Level (besides use Lua)? You say you want more than just a keyboard graphic, so what do you want?SAJewers wrote:The first thing people should be able to do/see should be something like an empty room that visually tells the controls, and allows the player the ability o mess around and familiarize themselves with the engine a bit. Any tutorial stuff should be easy and simple, to allow the player to get used to things without much danger.
Also, honestly, I think that having two (or more, if necessary) tutorial levels won't be that bad as long as we can mask them as being actual levels, like I tried to do with mine.
My SMBX portfolio:
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
- SAJewers
- ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
- Posts: 4200
- Joined: 11 years ago
- Location: Nova Scotia
- Imaynotbehere4long
- Gone, but...yeah, pretty much forgotten.
- Posts: 289
- Joined: 8 years ago
Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
...okay, fine. Let me know what I need to do.SAJewers wrote:it'll require lua.
My SMBX portfolio:
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
- SAJewers
- ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
- Posts: 4200
- Joined: 11 years ago
- Location: Nova Scotia
Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
First, you'd probably have to get rid of the entire introductory thing you have.
Show the controls, then fade into an empty level section where the player can not die. the player has to exit that section, where the main tutorial begins, and the player learns all the basics of smbx.
The tutorial for each character should be somewhat brief and not overstay its welcome at all, while teaching everything that the player will need to know. Whatever character is first has to include tutorial stuff on even the general things of smbx; the most basic stuff has to be in the tutorial area for the first character, while slightly more advanced stuff can be placed in other character's sections.
Might also need to include the setting stuff.
The entire tutorial and how it's done up is up for discussion, but that's how I'd like to see it done up: a simple, straightforward thing for the player to learn everything without worrying about dying.
Edit: also, we really shouldn't be talking about stuff like this right now. We should be focusing on making and reviewing levels, until get get a general base of levels to work with. Then we can start working about things like the plot, uncles/bosses, towns, cutscenes, the overworld, the tutorial, etc., collaboratively, and under a different system than the one used to submit general levels. Those important things should be using the same system,name should be open to everyone.
Show the controls, then fade into an empty level section where the player can not die. the player has to exit that section, where the main tutorial begins, and the player learns all the basics of smbx.
The tutorial for each character should be somewhat brief and not overstay its welcome at all, while teaching everything that the player will need to know. Whatever character is first has to include tutorial stuff on even the general things of smbx; the most basic stuff has to be in the tutorial area for the first character, while slightly more advanced stuff can be placed in other character's sections.
Might also need to include the setting stuff.
The entire tutorial and how it's done up is up for discussion, but that's how I'd like to see it done up: a simple, straightforward thing for the player to learn everything without worrying about dying.
Edit: also, we really shouldn't be talking about stuff like this right now. We should be focusing on making and reviewing levels, until get get a general base of levels to work with. Then we can start working about things like the plot, uncles/bosses, towns, cutscenes, the overworld, the tutorial, etc., collaboratively, and under a different system than the one used to submit general levels. Those important things should be using the same system,name should be open to everyone.
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- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BODxOghVmko
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Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
@Imaynotbehere4long
[*]The cosmology of the A__T continuity; the rules the multiverse of these games operates on have always been kind of vague and open for interpretation, but Ep, 1 got a bit more technical with that stuff. If we end up going with the time travel/reality reconstruction theme then that could be a larger area of concern.
[*]The nature of the turtle dove, which I guess kind of overlaps with the cosmology. Darky and Dem's original plan was to make it part of a series of related items with universal-destruction-proof powers, and how much of that is going to stick going forward is still up for debate as well as the role the turtle dove will/should play.
[*]Same with the ring as it was planned to be another one of those items, except it's not actually featured in your level, just the ideas and discussion we've been having around it.[/list][/spoiler]
Yet my position has generally been that the sooner story discussion and brainstorming starts, the stronger the base of ideas we have to pull from will be when we get to ironing out the story proper. And as I've said way too many times now, having more ideas is much more preferable to having too few ideas as long as nobody's committed too strongly to any of them... but then, I haven't done the best job of practicing what I preach and reining in my own enthusiasm, have I?
Regardless, we've got the projected world themes now and folks are making towns and Uncle battles and stuff based around that, or, as in my case, have been working on them since before submissions even started. And I've been eager to share every other step of the Broadsword fight's development and gone on and on about my willingness to change/redo my stuff to the point it's probably obnoxious, but others have been more quiet about their own work (at least, to my knowledge).
I'll try harder to keep my what-ifs to a minimum. I do think we should be discussing the story-related stuff folks are already working on, though, to catch any potential issues before they develop into bigger problems and stuff like that. This discussion about imay's level was going to happen sooner or later; better it be addressed now than held off until a point when it'd lead to a bigger setback to the game's production.
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
[*]The nature of the turtle dove, which I guess kind of overlaps with the cosmology. Darky and Dem's original plan was to make it part of a series of related items with universal-destruction-proof powers, and how much of that is going to stick going forward is still up for debate as well as the role the turtle dove will/should play.
[*]Same with the ring as it was planned to be another one of those items, except it's not actually featured in your level, just the ideas and discussion we've been having around it.[/list][/spoiler]
Probably would be best to split it off into a separate level so we can still use it for/as part of whatever the opening cutscene ends up being. As I said before, I can help with that to save imay the time and trouble.SAJewers wrote:First, you'd probably have to get rid of the entire introductory thing you have.
If we don't already have some sort of health/death system-related lua library, I can see about reworking a bit of infinite-health/knockback code I'm using for another level into one that can be plugged into the tutorial without hassle.stuff about not dying
I mean, I kind of agree, that's probably the safest way to handle it. Come Episode 3 we might want to make it clear from the outset that people shouldn't start doing story-related stuff until well after the base of levels is firmly established.Edit: also, we really shouldn't be talking about stuff like this right now. We should be focusing on making and reviewing levels, until get get a general base of levels to work with. Then we can start working about things like the plot, uncles/bosses, towns, cutscenes, the overworld, the tutorial, etc., collaboratively, and under a different system than the one used to submit general levels. Those important things should be using the same system,name should be open to everyone.
Yet my position has generally been that the sooner story discussion and brainstorming starts, the stronger the base of ideas we have to pull from will be when we get to ironing out the story proper. And as I've said way too many times now, having more ideas is much more preferable to having too few ideas as long as nobody's committed too strongly to any of them... but then, I haven't done the best job of practicing what I preach and reining in my own enthusiasm, have I?
Regardless, we've got the projected world themes now and folks are making towns and Uncle battles and stuff based around that, or, as in my case, have been working on them since before submissions even started. And I've been eager to share every other step of the Broadsword fight's development and gone on and on about my willingness to change/redo my stuff to the point it's probably obnoxious, but others have been more quiet about their own work (at least, to my knowledge).
I'll try harder to keep my what-ifs to a minimum. I do think we should be discussing the story-related stuff folks are already working on, though, to catch any potential issues before they develop into bigger problems and stuff like that. This discussion about imay's level was going to happen sooner or later; better it be addressed now than held off until a point when it'd lead to a bigger setback to the game's production.
Delightful Adventure Enhanced is out now!
There's an official ASMT Discord server! Check it out to discuss Demo games and follow their development! thread, invite link
(Entry requires verification, either with a connected Youtube/Twitter/Twitch/etc account or manually by the server staff.)
Itch.io (albums and eventually games), Youtube (dofur pass and I guess other videos)
There's an official ASMT Discord server! Check it out to discuss Demo games and follow their development! thread, invite link
(Entry requires verification, either with a connected Youtube/Twitter/Twitch/etc account or manually by the server staff.)
Itch.io (albums and eventually games), Youtube (dofur pass and I guess other videos)
- SAJewers
- ASMBXT Level Wrangler/A2XT Project Coordinator /AAT Level Designer
- Posts: 4200
- Joined: 11 years ago
- Location: Nova Scotia
Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Really, i think the meat of the prologue should be it's own seperate cutscene, like in Ep1. For me, i think how it should go is to have a tutorial (or set of tutorials), then have a cutscene that sets everything up plot-wise.Rockythechao wrote:Probably would be best to split it off into a separate level so we can still use it for/as part of whatever the opening cutscene ends up being. As I said before, I can help with that to save imay the time and trouble.SAJewers wrote:First, you'd probably have to get rid of the entire introductory thing you have.
I don't mind if players can die in the tutorial. I'm mainly thinking of SMB1 1-1 and the like.Rockythechao wrote:If we don't already have some sort of health/death system-related lua library, I can see about reworking a bit of infinite-health/knockback code I'm using for another level into one that can be plugged into the tutorial without hassle.stuff about not dying
Yeah, talk about stuff like that, but don't have anything firm until we have a solid base of levels. I mean, we can start now, but then we're making assumptions on levels that may or may not make the game. Just because I myself like a level doesn't mean it's going to be in the game, especially if i'm the only person so far who's reviewed it.Rockythechao wrote:
I mean, I kind of agree, that's probably the safest way to handle it. Come Episode 3 we might want to make it clear from the outset that people shouldn't start doing story-related stuff until well after the base of levels is firmly established.Edit: also, we really shouldn't be talking about stuff like this right now. We should be focusing on making and reviewing levels, until get get a general base of levels to work with. Then we can start working about things like the plot, uncles/bosses, towns, cutscenes, the overworld, the tutorial, etc., collaboratively, and under a different system than the one used to submit general levels. Those important things should be using the same system,name should be open to everyone.
Yet my position has generally been that the sooner story discussion and brainstorming starts, the stronger the base of ideas we have to pull from will be when we get to ironing out the story proper. And as I've said way too many times now, having more ideas is much more preferable to having too few ideas as long as nobody's committed too strongly to any of them... but then, I haven't done the best job of practicing what I preach and reining in my own enthusiasm, have I?
Regardless, we've got the projected world themes now and folks are making towns and Uncle battles and stuff based around that, or, as in my case, have been working on them since before submissions even started. And I've been eager to share every other step of the Broadsword fight's development and gone on and on about my willingness to change/redo my stuff to the point it's probably obnoxious, but others have been more quiet about their own work (at least, to my knowledge).
I'll try harder to keep my what-ifs to a minimum. I do think we should be discussing the story-related stuff folks are already working on, though, to catch any potential issues before they develop into bigger problems and stuff like that. This discussion about imay's level was going to happen sooner or later; better it be addressed now than held off until a point when it'd lead to a bigger setback to the game's production.
- Imaynotbehere4long
- Gone, but...yeah, pretty much forgotten.
- Posts: 289
- Joined: 8 years ago
Re: A2MBXT Cutscenes and Story SPOILERS (no raocows allowed)
Honestly, as long as the tutorials do a good enough job of masking themselves as actual levels (SMB 1-1, Shovel Knight's first level, Megaman X1's intro level, etc.), there shouldn't be an issue with having cut-scenes be in-between, or even part of (in my case), the levels. In fact, I'd think that would be a big part of the alternate judging criteria for the tutorial levels: how good a job they do at masking the fact that they're tutorials while still teaching new players how each character controls.SAJewers wrote:Really, i think the meat of the prologue should be it's own seperate cutscene, like in Ep1. For me, i think how it should go is to have a tutorial (or set of tutorials), then have a cutscene that sets everything up plot-wise.
We can still have the meat of the prologue in its own cut-scene, but it shouldn't have to be after all the tutorial levels.
My SMBX portfolio:
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026
(includes a Sonic 3D Blast styled level.)
SOMEONE ANSWER MY CRY FOR HELP: http://www.supermariobrosx.org/forums/v ... =69&t=2026