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Episode 1 Level Review Thread

http://talkhaus.raocow.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=13540

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Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 02:12
by Heavy Sigh
SAJewers wrote:Here's World 7:

Superhigh Skyway - Change some of the GFX such as Luigu, Link/Pheed, and especially the Fences so it doesn't look like you can stnd on them <other_sturg> Also, the music's really loud that i can't heat your voice.
Luigi's new version looks funnier to me. Also, what do you mean by standing on link/pheed. Why would you do that. And how in the world did the fences look like you could stand on them?! They're FENCES!

Also if it was too loud why didn't you just turn down the game!?

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 02:26
by SAJewers
To me, it looked you tried to make the fences look like Train Tracks, and that you could stand on them. Pheed in that situation to me doesn't make sence, and should be changed to another graphic. Music is very loud compared to the rest of the game.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 02:32
by Sturg
Doctor Shemp's music leveling should fix the sound shouldn't it? Unless I totally misread the thread there.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 02:38
by SAJewers
Yeah, it should.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 04:26
by Doctor Shemp
It will. The process only seems to encounter problems for very short files (i.e. SFX) and not music. Or, if it does, no-one's pointed out the problems to me. So it should work fine. I'll do it once the rest of the game is finalised.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 04:56
by jayScribble
SAJewers wrote: Town7 - Gray Leek Pillar needs to follow the same style as the others. Put Character Blocks by the Powerups so people don't have to leave/reenter to powerup everyone. Some typos/grammer errors.
I assume that you haven't downloaded my latest version of the town.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 14:28
by SAJewers
jayScribble wrote:
SAJewers wrote: Town7 - Gray Leek Pillar needs to follow the same style as the others. Put Character Blocks by the Powerups so people don't have to leave/reenter to powerup everyone. Some typos/grammer errors.
I assume that you haven't downloaded my latest version of the town.
I did have the latest version. Or, at least, I just redownloaded it, and see the same issues.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 18:43
by jayScribble
SAJewers wrote:
jayScribble wrote:
SAJewers wrote: Town7 - Gray Leek Pillar needs to follow the same style as the others. Put Character Blocks by the Powerups so people don't have to leave/reenter to powerup everyone. Some typos/grammer errors.
I assume that you haven't downloaded my latest version of the town.
I did have the latest version. Or, at least, I just redownloaded it, and see the same issues.
... It turns out I'm an idiot. Fixed, but not for updating yet: still adding things to the town.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 09 Jan 2014, 21:06
by SAJewers
Here''s the go-through of World 8.
Alt Invasion - Wrong Music (The Default music stuff sounds off)?

Peculiar Night - Dude is no longer toad. No need of BGM sign. Some times, I'm not sure where to go.

Castle of the Above and Elsewhere - Ugh. Not sure if this is salvageable.

Everyone has a Starman - Not as bad as I made it look.

Dark Side of the Sun - Ugh. Just see Video.

Town 8 - Needs a Gray Leek Pillar like the other towns. Needs a powerup station of some sort (not just one leaf and one fire flower)

Twinkle Tower - You can Glitch the Disco out of his Home. Maybe use M. Gorge instead of SMW Sky?

Yellow Hurts - Why are the Pipes Instakill?

Science Final Fight - My only complaints are that I kept getting hit by nothing, and there needs to be more Powerups in the firht. Maybe consider increasing the hitbox, but as noted in the chatroom, that might just be me with bad aim.
Might do World 9 tonight. not sure. If not, I'll try to do it tomorrow.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 05:26
by GenesisJames
SAJewers wrote:Here''s the go-through of World 8.
Alt Invasion - Wrong Music (The Default music stuff sounds off)?

Peculiar Night - Dude is no longer toad. No need of BGM sign. Some times, I'm not sure where to go.

Castle of the Above and Elsewhere - Ugh. Not sure if this is salvageable.

Everyone has a Starman - Not as bad as I made it look.

Dark Side of the Sun - Ugh. Just see Video.

Town 8 - Needs a Gray Leek Pillar like the other towns. Needs a powerup station of some sort (not just one leaf and one fire flower)

Twinkle Tower - You can Glitch the Disco out of his Home. Maybe use M. Gorge instead of SMW Sky?

Yellow Hurts - Why are the Pipes Instakill?

Science Final Fight - My only complaints are that I kept getting hit by nothing, and there needs to be more Powerups in the firht. Maybe consider increasing the hitbox, but as noted in the chatroom, that might just be me with bad aim.
Might do World 9 tonight. not sure. If not, I'll try to do it tomorrow.
From what I gathered, Dark Side Of The Sun needs more power-ups, correct? I suppose I could add a few. Personally, I don't think this level isn't far off from say, Depths of the Transcendental Dimension, so perhaps it should be in a later world if you had that amount of trouble with it? Nonetheless, I'll take a look at the power-up situation and remove the sign at the end.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 06:58
by XutaWoo
I get the feeling I should make Twinkle Tower more difficult, too. Or did it actually seem hard enough? I never thought of it as a World 8 level when I made it, so ...

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 08:53
by Isrieri
XutaWoo wrote:I get the feeling I should make Twinkle Tower more difficult, too.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 14:58
by SAJewers
Louiejub wrote: From what I gathered, Dark Side Of The Sun needs more power-ups, correct? I suppose I could add a few. Personally, I don't think this level isn't far off from say, Depths of the Transcendental Dimension, so perhaps it should be in a later world if you had that amount of trouble with it? Nonetheless, I'll take a look at the power-up situation and remove the sign at the end.
My main issues were the lack of powerups, and overuse of the shooters, especially donut shooters. There were a few sections where you could probably cut down on the donut shooters, and replace a few snifits with shyguys/aliens.

I also didn't like the stair-building section, and you should consider replacing that section with a vine or something. For Powerups:

-Move the first powerup closer to the start
-Place a powerup before the ladder section
-Place a powerup at the midpoint
-Move the Fire plant down a bit
-Place another powerup between that one and the end

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 19:38
by GenesisJames
SAJewers wrote:
Louiejub wrote: From what I gathered, Dark Side Of The Sun needs more power-ups, correct? I suppose I could add a few. Personally, I don't think this level isn't far off from say, Depths of the Transcendental Dimension, so perhaps it should be in a later world if you had that amount of trouble with it? Nonetheless, I'll take a look at the power-up situation and remove the sign at the end.
My main issues were the lack of powerups, and overuse of the shooters, especially donut shooters. There were a few sections where you could probably cut down on the donut shooters, and replace a few snifits with shyguys/aliens.

I also didn't like the stair-building section, and you should consider replacing that section with a vine or something. For Powerups:

-Move the first powerup closer to the start
-Place a powerup before the ladder section
-Place a powerup at the midpoint
-Move the Fire plant down a bit
-Place another powerup between that one and the end
I think the stair section is fine considering there's only one donut shooter to worry about, but I'll take a look at the things you suggested and make some changes.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 19:52
by SAJewers
I don't think it's fine, nor did Iseriei think it was fine either:
A guarnteed way to make me think a level is unfair would be making me use those stacking mushroom blocks when I'm under fire from rings that I can only kill by throwing the mushroom blocks at them. Change that.
For me, it ruined the level.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 20:10
by ztarwuff
SAJewers wrote:
Yellow Hurts - Why are the Pipes Instakill?
I'd like to keep the discussion on that level in spoilers:
The level name is Pavlov Gold. If for any reason the level is called Yellow Hurts, anywhere either in the Overworld or the folder naming, that should be changed.

The pipes are instakill, because they're made from lava blocks. They were the only thing I could find that actively destroyed enemies. I wanted the players to know that yellow hurts from seeing what happens when an enemy touches it and only lava hurts enemies.

I didn't want the player to wait for the music to start before they find out that yellow hurts; the music is only there to reinforce yellow-avoiding behaviour through constant reminder. I also didn't want to hold their hands and actively tell them that yellow hurts; I'm going by old-school level designer - show not tell. Show that yellow things hurts by vaporising NPCs against yellow things.

It's the only reason it's instakill. If the NPC also gets hurt, that telegraphs to the player the message: Avoid yellow at all costs.

Now, why do you ask that question? I know it's inconsistent but I don't want to give a player a power-up and then force them to take a hit against something yellow. Is the inconsistency that much of a problem?

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 20:32
by SAJewers
Well, the main issue I had was that it just felt really odd to me that the pipes insta-killed you. To me, it feels like you should only take damage. I understand what you're going for, but it still feels weird to me that only those insta-kill you. Maybe if they weren't pipes?

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 20:58
by Unaniem
SAJewers wrote:
Peculiar Night - Some times, I'm not sure where to go.
Replying as I didn't change this aspect in the newest version:
Like I said during the chat, I don't see the wandering aspect as problematic. It's true that the level doesn't outright tell you where to go, but in most cases the only way to actually go is just in the opposite direction. Besides that, the sections are relatively small and don't hold a large exploratory feature (especially in section 2, where you can only really go either in the direction 'left' or 'right'). With not much space to even wander around in the first place so you'll likely just, well, bump into whatever the continuation of the current section is in reasonable time. (You proved this point in your Stream actually. When the very last change happened (When the big boo resprite show themselves) you mentioned not knowing where to go, but still found the next section relatively quick.)

I added the coin arrows to the first half since the player might get the idea to jump down a pit, but there isn't any other moment where they could get this idea to my understanding. Section 2's last change gets a freebie for nearly having the entire bottom of the screen filled with 'corruption' blocks.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 21:02
by Menshay
A quick note about Intro 6: Isrieri thought it felt incomplete, and I guess I sort of agree, however I don't really have any other ideas about how to improve it (not to mention I'd rather concentrate on more relevant tasks right now for reasons). If it really feels that incomplete, anyone who thinks it could be improved and wants to have a go at it is welcome to do whatever with it.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 21:14
by ztarwuff
SAJewers wrote:
Well, the main issue I had was that it just felt really odd to me that the pipes insta-killed you. To me, it feels like you should only take damage. I understand what you're going for, but it still feels weird to me that only those insta-kill you. Maybe if they weren't pipes?
Yeah, I know, but I'm limited by the tools.

I could change the pipes back to being lava (albeit yellow), but then, the player won't register the fact that yellow hurts. They'll just see yellow lava and and only register the fact that lava hurts, not the colour yellow.

If the player had some kind of life meter, I could replace the lava blocks with hurt blocks and let them walk over the pipe and find out for themselves that it hurts. I guess I could make it a Sheath only level, but that ruins the yellow switch block section at the end of the first half of the level. Not to mention that I've only a limited number of hurt blocks and foregrounds to use.

Thing is, it may be weird, but it is obvious? Does it come as a surprise when you first touch a lethal pipe?

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 10 Jan 2014, 22:06
by SAJewers
It's obvious only because you have enemies dying from it.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 02:38
by SAJewers
Here's World 9:
Town5 - In leek Room, use hyphen, not "by". Use SMW leek, not SMB3 leek. Not sure on the long wait for the leek. Maybe I'm bad, but there were parts of the fetch quest where i didn't know where to go.

Floor is Lava - Maybe insert a reset door?

Retroville - you can jump out of the Frogger room

Family Reunion. You know, but check the video if you need to

Town 9 - See above.

Unseen Future - Someone mentioned that the Desert Music would get flagged by ContentID. Also, check some of the music.

Tower of Zalost - If you watch the VOD, there's 5 mins of me fixing the leek at the end. disregard that, that's not your fault

Relay - Someone mentioned Section 1's music will have to change. I will do that
Now, after playing all the levels,
I can only see two levels being removed:

Castle of the Above and Elsewhere (This is partially my fault, as I should have left it in the Approved with Changes bin)
Castle of the World (This is worse/unfair that I recall when reviewing it)EDIT: Talking in the IRC, this is salvageable, and someone will look at it.

What are your guys's thoughts on those levels? Should re remove/replace them? If we replace them? what do we replace them with?

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 03:25
by docopoper
SAJewers wrote: Now, after playing all the levels, I can only see two levels being removed:

Castle of the Above and Elsewhere (This is partially my fault, as I should have left it in the Approved with Changes bin)
Castle of the World (This is worse/unfair that I recall when reviewing it)EDIT: Talking in the IRC, this is salvageable, and someone will look at it.

What are your guys's thoughts on those levels? Should re remove/replace them? If we replace them? what do we replace them with?
Yeah, just substitute one of the levels in the general episode pile for Castle of the Above and Elsewhere and if the other one is salvageable - then salvage it. (I'm also not quoting what you said as a spoiler - because it's not a spoiler at all - people need to stop spamming spoiler tags :P)

I mean it's not that big of a deal cutting the level since we have 70 spare levels to substitute it with (and just put it onto that pile so that if it's improved it can go in a later episode).

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 03:31
by SAJewers
OK, talking it over in IRC, I think Demolition is gonna try and salvage both of them.

Re: A2MBXT Level Review Thread(EP1 LEVEL BUGS DON'T GO HERE)

Posted: 11 Jan 2014, 03:47
by docopoper
SAJewers wrote:OK, talking it over in IRC, I think Demolition is gonna try and salvage both of them.
Really? That sounds pretty hard. I didn't think it really was salvageable. I guess with big changes it could be.
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