Episode 1 Discussion Thread

[AUS]

Coming this St. Patrick's Day!

St. Patrick's Day is sort of a holiday, so it's still COMING THIS HOLIDAY SEASON... just not the holiday you were all thinking of.

Bweh, I made that joke an entire page ago.

[Frozelar]

How long until there's a hub ready (even a non pretty one)? I want to playtest this thing.

Yes, I also would be interested in testing (over my Christmas vacation)!! mrgreen

[SAJewers]

How long until there's a hub ready (even a non pretty one)? I want to playtest this thing.

Yes, I also would be interested in testing (over my Christmas vacation)!! mrgreen

It honestly sounds like Sturgyman is almost done with the Overworld. I can't finish the HUB until all the Towns are finalized, and that can't happen until the Overworld is pretty much done, as Sturgyman has to make slight modifications to the world layout.

Really, the Bottleneck right now is the Cutscenes. So go bug Darkychao and Demolition about getting their stuff done. Also, go bug Kashkabald until he starts posting more sound stuff.

[SAJewers]

Just thought of this after getting a PM from shaman:

When testing of A2MBXT Episode 1 commences, there's bound to be a level or 2 that turns out to be quite broken/should be removed (like calls to remove Shoe Zone or Tewi Eien Tewi in ASMBXT). I know for example, Castle of The Above and Elsewhere needs a few significant changes before it's playable that were reverted thanks to an update.

For small things, I don't mind if anyone here comes forward and help fixing those bugs, but there's bound to be a few levels where we all agree "this should be held back for due to major issues, and the author is unable to fix them", or "we can't use this music now for ContentID reasons, and don't want to blindly swap music around without the author's permission".

Anyway, are there any levels that are done and being held for episode 2 that we can use incase we need to swap out a level? I have one (potentially 2) we can use. Are there any others?

[Septentrion Pleiades]

Anyway, are there any levels that are done and being held for episode 2 that we can use incase we need to swap out a level? I have one (potentially 2) we can use. Are there any others?

There are quite a bunch in the "not belonging to an episode" Category. We really can't say for sure what we should replace until beta testing.

[SAJewers]

Yeah, I guess when testing commences, we'll play it by ear, and see if we can grab a level for fast-tracking in if need be.

[Willhart]

The Demos Fluffy Dream is one of my more completed episode 2 levels. You can use that since it is short and kinda abstract.

[ztarwuff]

Anyway, are there any levels that are done and being held for episode 2 that we can use incase we need to swap out a level? I have one (potentially 2) we can use. Are there any others?

Well, I have Gravity Falls which fits into the plot of the first episode. Nobody's tested it, though.

[Septentrion Pleiades]

I've played the world 4 and 5 towns, and I think the fetch quests are rediculous. The towns shouldn't take 20 minutes to figure out(which seems to be the case for town 4). At most, were can have only one long npc finding quest in this game without it seeming like padding(we don't need anymore padding for sure). I suggest we do away with the world 4 one right away.

I have yet to play most towns, so I don't know how prevalent these are.

[Unaniem]

I've played the world 4 and 5 towns, and I think the fetch quests are rediculous. The towns shouldn't take 20 minutes to figure out(which seems to be the case for town 4). At most, were can have only one long npc finding quest in this game without it seeming like padding(we don't need anymore padding for sure). I suggest we do away with the world 4 one right away.

I have yet to play most towns, so I don't know how prevalent these are.

The main reason the lengthy fetch quest is there is because I was trying to go for the "town is a place you stick around for a while and them move on" kind of atmosphere. I could just have it be the same length as a normal sized level by removing it, but I felt that the town would then just be a stale and boring pit-stop without any 'real' content to it.

I wanted Fahren to be a town you'd get to explore and find little details in, give it some character, make it seem as if it's really a little world on it's own where some peeps are residing in. Not just "lol here are some people with boring plot stuff and references 'k you can leave now". The best way to really make somebody stick around and get to know every nook and cranny was, to me at least, to have them explore around to gather some items. And your fetch quest is there.

I'd agree with your point if Fahren actually had ways to die in the middle of it which could turn it into your average 'walking on an overly long silk cord' kind of level, but - and please correct me if I missed something - the only way to really do so is to either go wild in the Hidden Den or play unresponsively with the C3 bombs. (And the Yottasecret but that's completely optional and overly obscure, so.)

If more people think Fahren is too tedious and unnecessarily long I'll consider removing the fetch quest, but for now I don't think it's necessary.

Oh man defindin'!!

[Doctor Shemp]

I've played the world 4 and 5 towns, and I think the fetch quests are rediculous. The towns shouldn't take 20 minutes to figure out(which seems to be the case for town 4). At most, were can have only one long npc finding quest in this game without it seeming like padding(we don't need anymore padding for sure). I suggest we do away with the world 4 one right away.

I have yet to play most towns, so I don't know how prevalent these are.

I'd agree that they are overly long but there are the mitigating circumstances of it:

• Not being necessary to exit the level
• Not being necessary to beat the game (except 100%)
• Most players don't 100% each level as they come to it and refuse to move on until they do

While I'd certainly object to it if it was an unavoidable part of the core game, as a bonus thing on the side, there are some excuses.

[Septentrion Pleiades]

The main reason the lengthy fetch quest is there is because I was trying to go for the "town is a place you stick around for a while and them move on" kind of atmosphere. I could just have it be the same length as a normal sized level by removing it, but I felt that the town would then just be a stale and boring pit-stop without any 'real' content to it.

I wanted Fahren to be a town you'd get to explore and find little details in, give it some character, make it seem as if it's really a little world on it's own where some peeps are residing in. Not just "lol here are some people with boring plot stuff and references 'k you can leave now". The best way to really make somebody stick around and get to know every nook and cranny was, to me at least, to have them explore around to gather some items. And your fetch quest is there.

The problem is that the player is a captive audience at that point. There's this general atutide of "I want you to enjoy my level so I'm going to make you do more and more of it!" when the player is like "Can't I just progress already." When a lot of level creators have this attitude, it just compound against the enjoyment of the player. This is evident in nearly every ASMBXT level with more than 3 exit, as well as a few others.

I'd agree that they are overly long but there are the mitigating circumstances of it:

• Not being necessary to exit the level
• Not being necessary to beat the game (except 100%)
• Most players don't 100% each level as they come to it and refuse to move on until they do

While I'd certainly object to it if it was an unavoidable part of the core game, as a bonus thing on the side, there are some excuses.

Unless we make it 100% clear that the leak is not required for ANY content whatsoever, players are going to fell obligated to collect them. Also note that nearly every LPer is going to go for 100% completion out of obligation, and we'll end up with some long boring videos of people backtracking though places they rather not be.

[Willhart]

The gameplay content is less important when making jokes and world building. I believe the towns should be more focused on the environment, and be a sort of a break from normal levels.

[Unaniem]

stoofs

Not much I can say to that, but I understand what you're saying.
Same as before, just going to wait for more opinions now until I decide wether or not to keep the Furba collecting present.

[Willhart]

You could set the price for collecting those to be something else than a leek, so they won't be required for 100%.

[Unaniem]

You could set the price for collecting those to be something else than a leek, so they won't be required for 100%.

I was thinking that it could just a be a whole batch of 1ups + hammer suit combo and the likes, but I feel like it isn't a worthy reward for, legitimately, putting some good effort in searching around the map + minor platforming.

[SAJewers]

The only need for the towns should be figuring out leek progress and having a place for a few talkhaus NPCs.

Also, I'm gonna have to say no to leeks in any towns. I've found out in making the Tutorial level that any leek progress will not be updated until you enter a level. I am NOT going to place any special notes for Leek counters anywhere aside from the Tutorial. In The Tutorial, the leek counter will continue to say 0/1 until you re-enter the level.

[raocow]

make the reward a secret exit or something. At least I'd suggest that but I don't know what is going on with the map progresses, I'm not really following up with that at all other than the vague notion of 'stuff is going on'

[Willhart]

At least my town and world 9 town have leeks. I'll have to make a thing something else then.

[Unaniem]

Also, I'm gonna have to say no to leeks in any towns. I've found out in making the Tutorial level that any leek progress will not be updated until you enter a level. I am NOT going to place any special notes for Leek counters anywhere aside from the Tutorial. In The Tutorial, the leek counter will continue to say 0/1 until you re-enter the level.

How exactly is this a problem if the Leek you're using is a SMB3 and ends the level after collection? Going back inside just to check the sanctuary should require minimal effort.

inb4 missing something totally obvious

[raocow]

Yeah, actually, by that logic then it shouldn't be a problem.

[SAJewers]

Why does the level need to have an exit other than walk offscreen though?

[Unaniem]

Why does the level need to have an exit other than walk offscreen though?

It's not much of an exit as it's just "hooray you beat the sidequest here's a reward goodbye!" type of deal.

I don't know if this causes issues with the overworld however, and even if that's the case: we could replace it with a SMW variant and put a sign/textbox right after collection somewhere which says: "The Leek Sanctuary requires some time to register newly harvested Leeks, come back later to see your full progress!", and then the argument of 'walking out-coming back in' requiring minimal effort rises again.

[Demolition]

Also, I'm gonna have to say no to leeks in any towns.

There are leeks in half the towns now though.
I recall outright asking you first if it was ok for my town to have a leek and you gave an affirmative yes, now my town pretty much revolves around it.

[SAJewers]

I don't recall. Did I? I only recall approving the large filesize. This may have been before I found that out though. If I did, then fine, we can keep them in.

Why does the level need to have an exit other than walk offscreen though?

I don't know if this causes issues with the overworld however, and even if that's the case: we could replace it with a SMW variant and put a sign/textbox right after collection somewhere which says: "The Leek Sanctuary requires some time to register newly harvested Leeks, come back later to see your full progress!", and then the argument of 'walking out-coming back in' requiring minimal effort rises again.

I've already said I'm not going to have any signs for anything because of a buggy leek counter. The only reason they showed up in ASMBXT was because those level designers were unwilling to modify their levels to fix it. Honestly, it was one of the things I hated about ASMBXT.

Also: this is a platformer, not an RPG. All the towns need to be is a bit of a breather and a bit of comedic relief, show off leek progress, and maybe have powerups and lives if the player so requires them.