Episode 1 Discussion Thread

[docopoper]

Yes, but please - whatever you do, don't make raocow's LP the beta test of the game. That's our biggest marketing piece. Like, when I recommended to Pink to play the game - she said she was under the impression that it was a low quality game. And I don't want this to happen with this game too. D:

[Voltgloss]

Speaking as a relative newcomer (not as new as it seems - I joined originally during the months now lost to the ether after the Talkhaustrophe), but also speaking as someone who has recently been playing the Tower of Biased collections and witnessing first-hand some of the issues (both actual bugs and balancing problems) that can crop up when transforming "a group of finished levels" into "a connected episode," I would definitely suggest some beta-test period of the "full" game before raocow LPs it. One week may not be enough, but does two weeks sound right?

I'm also happy to volunteer to join that beta-testing effort.

[Willhart]

People need time to fix their levels from any issues that are noticed in beta testing, or will there be some dedicated people doing that?

[SAJewers]

I think the Idea will be free reign. If you don't fix your level, someone will.

[cheez8]

I would definitely suggest some beta-test period of the "full" game before raocow LPs it. One week may not be enough, but does two weeks sound right?

I'm also happy to volunteer to join that beta-testing effort.

Two weeks sounds like it's probably good to me, though we might want to adjust it depending on how long it takes most people to get through the game. In other words, maybe start at "two weeks" and if the game takes a while, add enough days so that it's still in testing mode for about five days from the time most of the testers finish the game, or maybe longer, if necessary. After all, not all changes will happen right away, and the refined levels will need to be playtested as well. I don't seem to remember much of anybody playtesting some of the quick fixes we went with last time, and it led to things like postgame levels with World 3 difficulty.

[Willhart]

This game should be shared on more than one site in my opinion.
Asmbxt was only discussed in talkhaus and youtube mostly.

[Bwarch]

You would pretty much need to have somebody volunteer to post it over on the SMBX forum, preferably somebody with a post count under their belt.

As for other avenues of advertising, everybody should put forward their recommendations. Be rest assured though the majority of the traffic for the game will come from Talkhaus and Youtube.

[Sturg]

So hey, if you want a kind of quiet stream, where I just work on the Overworld, then come on over to http://www.twitch.tv/sturgyman where I'm streaming right now yo!

It's quiet since I got no mic so I'm chatting via IRC.

[shaman]

Again, even with raocow playing the game whenever it's ready after it's out for beta, we can still fix it during his LP. We did it with ASMBXT, I don't see why it wouldn't work again. It was even a cool thing, to see the updates going out and new stuff coming out of the radishes outside the castle

[raocow]

I sure liked the blade of grass, it accidently created one of the most.. profound, you could say, moment of the lp.

[AUS]

I sure liked the blade of grass, it accidently created one of the most.. profound, you could say, moment of the lp.

Wait which moment?

[docopoper]

I assume the direct address in the last episode.

[Doctor Shemp]

Again, even with raocow playing the game whenever it's ready after it's out for beta, we can still fix it during his LP. We did it with ASMBXT, I don't see why it wouldn't work again. It was even a cool thing, to see the updates going out and new stuff coming out of the radishes outside the castle

You have to admit it kind of stopped working towards the end when raocow outpaced the beta testing and was publicly encountering broken messes of levels and exposing them to the internet.

[cheez8]

Again, even with raocow playing the game whenever it's ready after it's out for beta, we can still fix it during his LP. We did it with ASMBXT, I don't see why it wouldn't work again. It was even a cool thing, to see the updates going out and new stuff coming out of the radishes outside the castle

It wouldn't work again because it didn't work the first time. Yes, the changes outside the castle were pretty neat, and most of the game up to about the middle of World 8 went just fine. Then there were so many things in the endgame and postgame that we just didn't address in time. From what I saw, most of the postgame levels were hardly peer-reviewed at all, and there were several times where it showed very clearly. The impression I got was that several levels were there because there was a section which was much, much harder than it was intended to be, and the levels that were fixed in time for raocow's LP felt extremely out of place. (see: Tewi Eien Tewi) On the other hand, levels that were not fixed in time felt unrefined, mostly because they were unrefined at that point. (see: Everything Switch Palace)

Levels like Eien Tewi which were suddenly much too easy for the postgame world should have been moved to a different world. raocow's LP brought up a problem with this, though- he'd already played through the earlier worlds, so once the problems were worked out we just left it where it was. That is something we should have fixed, but didn't because of letting the LP start way too early. Then, levels like Everything Switch Palace (and a few others, such as Frozen Phony Key Factory) didn't really get the level of feedback they needed until after raocow's LP reached them. That's nearly two months after the fact. Two months. That is entirely too long to wait to implement changes that will keep levels from being frustrating.

Look through the videos for the postgame levels. There are flaws. Glaring flaws that have significant impacts on gameplay, and on the amount of fun the player is having. And these flaws were still there two months after the game had been released.

I don't think I'm asking for much. I'm just asking that we have a touch of patience and make sure the testing phase is thoroughly conducted and seen through to its end before we release what we call a "finished product." It will not delay the game's release by half a year or anything. All it will do are two things: It will delay raocow's LP (which is not a priority) for somewhere from two to six weeks, and it will keep the game from being sloppy and unfinished when we release it to the general public.

[AUS]

But there's already been more playtesting this time than last time. It'll work better.

[cheez8]

I'd rather be certain that we actually catch and fix mistakes before we call this a "finished product", rather than say "oh well there's already been some testing, we can release this before everybody finishes."

Like I said, all that will happen is raocow won't start his LP until a couple weeks later. Is that so bad? I think that's a much better option than releasing a flawed product to everybody that doesn't get fixed until two months have passed.

...Actually, as far as I know, Eien Tewi is still a postgame level in ASMBXT.

[SAJewers]

To be fair, One of the main issues with levels in ASMBXT was there was very little QA.

If raocow wanted to play A2MBXT right now, would it be playable? Sure. I have more confidence in the A2MBXT levels then the ASMBXT levels. However, there still should be testing though, as something is bound to fall through the cracks.

[cheez8]

Alright, but I still don't like the idea of the LP starting before testing is officially "done".

[raocow]

Thinking about it, with what is left to be done, and the testing y'all want to do, I get the feeling the game could be in an lp-able state around the time the run through of the first game began, a couple of weeks after my birthday.

[Minus]

I'd advise taking all the time you need to sort things out, even if it means a slight delay. People are probably antsy for the raocow LP - I am as well, but you should take care to make sure that you've tested every level and can say for sure that the game is playable to the best of your abilities.

Most of the levels in the first collab were pretty enjoyable, but, as people pointed out, a couple of levels did fall through the cracks during ASMBXT, which then raised a ton of controversy during the LP itself. Just a bit more playtesting probably could've circumvented some of that.

You don't need to make every level flawless, but do at least make sure you've tested every level and verify that each is beatable based on good old Mario reflex, and that if you die, you recognize why you died and know that if you reach that point again, you can get around it next time by doing such and such thing.

I'd say if it means a delay for a couple of weeks, it's better that then release untested levels that'll be at the mercy of the audience.

EDIT: What that guy said.

[pholtos]

There's a reason I haven't made a real level for the 2nd one as of yet... I was sorta... bad at the whole level making thing. XD

[Maiku Wotaharu]

Thinking about it, with what is left to be done, and the testing y'all want to do, I get the feeling the game could be in an lp-able state around the time the run through of the first game began, a couple of weeks after my birthday.

Sooo...

Coming this St. Patrick's Day!

[Doctor Shemp]

Thinking about it, with what is left to be done, and the testing y'all want to do, I get the feeling the game could be in an lp-able state around the time the run through of the first game began, a couple of weeks after my birthday.

Sooo...

Coming this St. Patrick's Day!

St. Patrick's Day is sort of a holiday, so it's still COMING THIS HOLIDAY SEASON... just not the holiday you were all thinking of.

[docopoper]

There's a reason I haven't made a real level for the 2nd one as of yet... I was sorta... bad at the whole level making thing. XD

Tunnel was an amazingly fun level though.

And yes, the postgame of ASMBXT had a lot of problems to the point where I am not looking forward to seeing the LPer I'm currently watching getting to it. I mean edge of the universe and a few others are cool - but I really feel like out lack of QA was a big problem last time.

How long until there's a hub ready (even a non pretty one)? I want to playtest this thing.

[pholtos]

I meant other than tunnel. A.U.Ghost House was just... barren and repetitive. Plain of the lesser used was ok I guess and elemental confusion was a tad enemy spammy.