AZCT Overworld
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AZCT Overworld
Herein this thread, post what Ideas and suggestions you have on how the Overworld would function.
The basic idea is to have two Overworld maps, both being on two different islands.
The first Island being peaceful, but is starting to be overrun by monsters and then enemy forces from the other island. Most of the item collecting is to prepare for going to the second Island to defeat the enemy forces there.
The second Island is where the bad guy has already taken over the entire island and is planning to invade the first one. As a result, the few stragglers there are hiding and sell enemy equipment to the player.
My Overworld failed due to being too open, so something we can base something on would be a good start.
The basic idea is to have two Overworld maps, both being on two different islands.
The first Island being peaceful, but is starting to be overrun by monsters and then enemy forces from the other island. Most of the item collecting is to prepare for going to the second Island to defeat the enemy forces there.
The second Island is where the bad guy has already taken over the entire island and is planning to invade the first one. As a result, the few stragglers there are hiding and sell enemy equipment to the player.
My Overworld failed due to being too open, so something we can base something on would be a good start.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Something more modern Legend of Zeldas did well was their dungeon design. However, you need an overworld.
More specifically, I put forth a design similar to Death Mountain.
If you were to mirror it: The game starts you in a peaceful town (or a broken down but slightly inhabited one) and soon after you are allowed to 'begin' the journey. You are acquainted with a few new enemies, and later with more difficult versions. This is good journey design: Learn, beat, more difficult this time.
Similarly, has you progress towards the 'center' you see a locked off area that is possibly dangerous? You feel like you'll visit it later, and you're right. After reaching the center past a natural obstacle, you've reached a small safe haven. You're promptly given the tool to enter the locked off area, but dundundun theres another area you can't reach AT the safe area. As you go through the first dungeon, you advance as a player. Greeted with congratulations, you head back to the town and do ??? (rest of overworld). Later on, you return and all hell has broken loose.
You return to the safe haven, get inside the hard dungeon, and boom. Nostalgia and a similarity to your first dungeon fuel you, making for a great experience. After this, final boss & cut to credits.
More specifically, I put forth a design similar to Death Mountain.
If you were to mirror it: The game starts you in a peaceful town (or a broken down but slightly inhabited one) and soon after you are allowed to 'begin' the journey. You are acquainted with a few new enemies, and later with more difficult versions. This is good journey design: Learn, beat, more difficult this time.
Similarly, has you progress towards the 'center' you see a locked off area that is possibly dangerous? You feel like you'll visit it later, and you're right. After reaching the center past a natural obstacle, you've reached a small safe haven. You're promptly given the tool to enter the locked off area, but dundundun theres another area you can't reach AT the safe area. As you go through the first dungeon, you advance as a player. Greeted with congratulations, you head back to the town and do ??? (rest of overworld). Later on, you return and all hell has broken loose.
You return to the safe haven, get inside the hard dungeon, and boom. Nostalgia and a similarity to your first dungeon fuel you, making for a great experience. After this, final boss & cut to credits.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Like I said I would do, I've made a demo of the first overworld. This one is lacking enemies, items or anything like that. Basically all it has at this stage is the layout, the graphical appearance (which will need to be fixed up with custom graphics to smooth over some of the transitions, but that can wait) and the dungeon locations.
Here it is. For testing purposes you start with the Roc's Feather. You can't cross rivers until you get the ladder as well.
If you get lost (and I've tried to design it so that you shouldn't without it feeling too railroaded and keeping some non-linearity) here's the spoilered screen locations of each place:
Feedback seriously needed.
Here it is. For testing purposes you start with the Roc's Feather. You can't cross rivers until you get the ladder as well.
If you get lost (and I've tried to design it so that you shouldn't without it feeling too railroaded and keeping some non-linearity) here's the spoilered screen locations of each place:
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Looks pretty good to me.
Open the spoiler for a long fairly rambly critique/review!
TL;DR: It is a pretty good map with like three total problems that I noticed and like eight things that I really liked.
EDIT: And now that I think about it, I never used the ladder for anything but slightly-easier jumps. Every jump needed to get anywhere is possible with just the feather.
Well, unless your goal is to jump off the edge of the screen, but that doesn't work. I checked.
Open the spoiler for a long fairly rambly critique/review!
EDIT: And now that I think about it, I never used the ladder for anything but slightly-easier jumps. Every jump needed to get anywhere is possible with just the feather.
Well, unless your goal is to jump off the edge of the screen, but that doesn't work. I checked.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Responses in bold.
Thanks for the feedback!KingTwelveSixteen wrote:Looks pretty good to me.
Open the spoiler for a long fairly rambly critique/review!
TL;DR: It is a pretty good map with like three total problems that I noticed and like eight things that I really liked.
EDIT: And now that I think about it, I never used the ladder for anything but slightly-easier jumps. Every jump needed to get anywhere is possible with just the feather.
Like I mentioned, that really wasn't intentional. Guess I need to make the rivers wider. Unfortunately if it's possible to make the ladder cover more than one tile, I haven't figured out how. Maybe we could scrap the flipper minidungeon and move the flippers to World 1?
Well, unless your goal is to jump off the edge of the screen, but that doesn't work. I checked.
That reminds me, I'll need to add impassable water to the edges of the map for when the player does get the flippers.
- jayScribble
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Overworld overview here: besides some of the issues that King mentioned above, there's only one current issue, but it's minor and can be easily fixed:
Other than that, a good overworld, and I'll be definitely test it when there are enemies and puzzle installed into it. Certainly better than my one.
I'll do more testing tomorrow.
At 1-C and 1-B, when walking right from 1-B at the bottom, the above happened. I can escape easily just by going left, but that tile there should be blocked.
I'll do more testing tomorrow.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Had a jaunt through it. The layout looks alright, though I'm still not a huge fan of the built-in graphics. That has nothing to do with the design, which seems solid. I'll have to see how it holds up with enemies and, well, actual things to do.
And you shouldn't need impassable water on the world edge since it's also the edge of the possible world - i.e. there's no black void beyond that sea. Which is good, because if there was, you wouldn't need the flippers to get there - you can actually exploit the engine to "walk" on water with the Roc's feather. Basically, any time you jump into the water, the engine respawns you at the spot you jumped from. The exception is if you jump over a screen boundary - then it respawns you where you entered the screen, on the ground. Even if that "ground" is actually water, you end up standing on it and not drowning, meaning you can jump again. You make progress by jumping immediately next to and parallel to a screen boundary, and crossing the screen boundary right before you land. If you have one of the health regenerating rings, you can go as long as you like with this method.
And you shouldn't need impassable water on the world edge since it's also the edge of the possible world - i.e. there's no black void beyond that sea. Which is good, because if there was, you wouldn't need the flippers to get there - you can actually exploit the engine to "walk" on water with the Roc's feather. Basically, any time you jump into the water, the engine respawns you at the spot you jumped from. The exception is if you jump over a screen boundary - then it respawns you where you entered the screen, on the ground. Even if that "ground" is actually water, you end up standing on it and not drowning, meaning you can jump again. You make progress by jumping immediately next to and parallel to a screen boundary, and crossing the screen boundary right before you land. If you have one of the health regenerating rings, you can go as long as you like with this method.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
I'll have a version with enemies up soon-ish. I also thought about it and making the rivers too big to jump across seems an inelegant solution: the fact that you can only just make the jump now means that if I widen the river you'll only just be able to make the jump with the ladder and it shouldn't be that way. Does anyone out there know enough coding to make the ladder more than one tile long?
In any case I think a more elegant solution would be beef gates. Not necessarily to a huge extent as it's only Island 1 and you should be going that way on the way to Level 4 anyway, but just enough to make it a fair bit harder going south and crossing rivers than going north and sticking to the path. On that note if anyone would like to make a dirt path graphic I could stretch it from the town to the bridge and then maybe to a smaller town on the north-east of the island to suggest going that way. Or maybe that's too obvious.
In any case I think a more elegant solution would be beef gates. Not necessarily to a huge extent as it's only Island 1 and you should be going that way on the way to Level 4 anyway, but just enough to make it a fair bit harder going south and crossing rivers than going north and sticking to the path. On that note if anyone would like to make a dirt path graphic I could stretch it from the town to the bridge and then maybe to a smaller town on the north-east of the island to suggest going that way. Or maybe that's too obvious.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
I possess no dirt road graphic.
It isn't to obvious though, it's exactly the right amount of obvious.
It isn't to obvious though, it's exactly the right amount of obvious.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Finally updated the overworld to address most of the issues mentioned (really all except those that require custom graphics) as well as adding in enemies and items. Same link as before.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Critique:
There you go, a nice, incredibly long critique/review for you to read. Hope you enjoy it.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Sorry for the late reply. I'll get onto fixing those and adding more stuff for the next version.
I really have literally no idea what causes the "Link walking off the pause menu map" bug and Google hasn't got any answers.
I really have literally no idea what causes the "Link walking off the pause menu map" bug and Google hasn't got any answers.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
New version.
Fixes some problems (but not the map one since I still have no idea how to fix that). Also adds shops (including hidden ones), the white sword, and much more detailed text for the town.
Fixes some problems (but not the map one since I still have no idea how to fix that). Also adds shops (including hidden ones), the white sword, and much more detailed text for the town.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
It occurs to me that I completely forgot to respond to your responses to my critique (response).
Ah, I do believe the first thing you are confused on is my fault. It is actually at 1-6
Also the grey thing is just a perfect looking place for a shortcut. :(
(I think it should be a flute-based one. Possibly with music-note block.)
On an unrelated note,
It was fun! My progress with be arrested, till I've tested the rest, after I rest.
(Translation: I'm going to bed. I'll test the rest when I wake up.)
EDIT: DANG IT I FORGOT TO SAVE
I knew I forgot something. :(
The numbering system is Horizontal-Vertical, with (num-secondNum) meaning every screen between num and second num inclusive. So (A-B)(1-2) would be the square containing A-1, A-2, B-1, and B-2.Doctor Shemp wrote:Responses in bold.Thanks for the feedback!KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Ah, I do believe the first thing you are confused on is my fault. It is actually at 1-6
Also the grey thing is just a perfect looking place for a shortcut. :(
(I think it should be a flute-based one. Possibly with music-note block.)
On an unrelated note,
(Translation: I'm going to bed. I'll test the rest when I wake up.)
EDIT: DANG IT I FORGOT TO SAVE
I knew I forgot something. :(
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Re: AZCT Overworld
CONTINUATION:
That's everything I believe.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Hey Shemp, you don't mind if I start working on the second island using FireSeraphim's unfinished island thing, do you?
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Sure, if you'd like. The reason I haven't started it yet is because people's commitments to and progress on the late-game dungeons seemed a lot sketchier than the early-game ones so I wasn't sure what would and wouldn't be in the final game. If you want to go ahead anyway then feel free. If you want any of my workfiles where I was working out CSets and enemy balancing then you can.
By the way, I have read your review of the latest draft of Island 1, I was just holding off on responding to it until I had a new version and I've been a bit busy recently.
By the way, I have read your review of the latest draft of Island 1, I was just holding off on responding to it until I had a new version and I've been a bit busy recently.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
It has occurred to me that with the second island being named 'Shade Island' and the first town being named 'Sunset town' that we have a bit of a theme going on here.
Just thought I should note that.
Just thought I should note that.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
I hadn't even looked at the Island 2 draft when I started mine. I named the town Sunset Town because it was on the west and decided to call the buildings on the east Sunrise Town. I can't remember if I put that in any of the strings though.
EDIT: I also thought it was thematically appropriate that Sunset Town was where you started and Sunrise Town is virtually deserted given that the plot is that everything's falling apart. You're starting at the end of the day and the beginning of the night. Speaking of which, some of the strings represent an altered form of the plot that I thought up. I'm heading out soon so I can't post it now but I'll do it when I get back.
EDIT: I also thought it was thematically appropriate that Sunset Town was where you started and Sunrise Town is virtually deserted given that the plot is that everything's falling apart. You're starting at the end of the day and the beginning of the night. Speaking of which, some of the strings represent an altered form of the plot that I thought up. I'm heading out soon so I can't post it now but I'll do it when I get back.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Hm.
Here's the current version of island 2, still missing about 1/3-1/4 of it (the rightmost parts of the island).
Just so you know what's going on with it currently.
Here's the current version of island 2, still missing about 1/3-1/4 of it (the rightmost parts of the island).
Just so you know what's going on with it currently.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Link to the new version of the overworld.
Likely to drop bombs:
Likely to drop magic:
Likely to drop rupees:
Standard drops (useful for general farming):
Happy hunting!
Cheats list
Entering a cheat lower on the list will also give you the abilities of all the cheats higher on the list. Enter them by pressing Esc then going to Cheats and enter them, then use their abilities from the same menu.
Refill Hearts, Magic, Bombs, Arrows and/or Rupees at any time via your new replicator.
Set your current level of Heart Containers, Magic Containers and/or Max Bombs. You can also make yourself invincible.
Pull any item in the game out of your pocket.
Allows you to set noclip on. Also gives you the option to instantly kill every enemy on screen.
Reference lists for item drops (only including enemies found on Island 1 overworld):KingTwelveSixteen wrote:CONTINUATION:
Responses in bold as always. Sorry it's taken so long.That's everything I believe.
Likely to drop bombs:
Cheats list
Entering a cheat lower on the list will also give you the abilities of all the cheats higher on the list. Enter them by pressing Esc then going to Cheats and enter them, then use their abilities from the same menu.
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Hah, those are good cheats. :)
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Re: AZCT Overworld
Shemp, what are the things that require custom graphics?
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Re: AZCT Overworld
I think, at the minimum, a dirt path running from the main town on the west side to the minor town on the east side, another dirt path running from the main town on the west side to Wizzrobe's House, bridge graphics to replace the current method of dungeon tiles across water and broken bridge graphics.