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SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nabe » 2 years ago

Doctor Shemp wrote:Here's what I have for Plot Advancement Guy's Island 2 starting speech:
Arrived thou hast! I feared that thou wert lost.
The man who bidst thou sail did useth words
That in mine ears did sound so strange, so feared
Them false I did – but thou art here. The sun
Moveth to hide and light doth dim. Thou must
Illuminate the world. A lantern in
The darkness thou must be. Complete thy quest
And bring the light of dawn! Go save the world!
There are several things I tried to accomplish with this speech. In order they are (and remember that he's the Destroyer in disguise):
1. Really emphasise the early modern grammar to strengthen the joke of him calling the pirate's words strange.
2. Try and imply that the player shouldn't trust him by having him say that he thought the pirate's words false because they sounded strange. Ideally the player should think that he sounds strange too.
3. I figured that since Island 2 was called Shade Isle, it could follow that Island 1 would be daytime and Island 2 would be near-night. Since the player can move freely between them, that would imply two unchanging timezones: in other words, that the sun has stopped moving, and that Sheath just travelled far enough in her raft to cross multiple timezones. This is probably too subtle to pick up on though.
4. The point in 3 lets me use a nice darkness metaphor.
5. If you pick up on 3 then it follows that "bringing the light of dawn" would mean restarting time: killing the Maintainer.
6. "Go save the world!" is a nod towards the Destroyer actually believing that he's acting in the world's best interests.
Works for me. He seems suspicious.


I) Where does this fit in with the dialogue I wrote for Sheath arriving at Island 2?

II) Is this outline here still correct? I feel like things have definitely moved away from this at this point. At present, there's only one town on each overworld, where the outline mentions two on each. It also mentions ruined buildings everywhere, which would need to be added if that's still accurate. In talking about this point, it's probably also worth mentioning Level 5 (located under a grave near the town on Island 2), the existence of which could serve some of this narrative function.

III) Following a bit from (II), is PAG still meant to use the Abei 2 sprite? I'd like to know what he looks like so I can start inserting all of this, and because I'd like to use PAG's appearance as a visual cue for at least one form of the Destroyer fight.

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Doctor Shemp » 2 years ago

Nabe wrote:I) Where does this fit in with the dialogue I wrote for Sheath arriving at Island 2?

II) Is this outline here still correct? I feel like things have definitely moved away from this at this point. At present, there's only one town on each overworld, where the outline mentions two on each. It also mentions ruined buildings everywhere, which would need to be added if that's still accurate. In talking about this point, it's probably also worth mentioning Level 5 (located under a grave near the town on Island 2), the existence of which could serve some of this narrative function.

III) Following a bit from (II), is PAG still meant to use the Abei 2 sprite? I'd like to know what he looks like so I can start inserting all of this, and because I'd like to use PAG's appearance as a visual cue for at least one form of the Destroyer fight.
1. We could place it right after your lines for Sheath. Have Sheath say her bit, then the guy appears and says his bit.
2. I'd forgotten the outline. I'll put some thought into trying to make them fit. Maybe we could have the ruined town elsewhere on Island 2 and put the text for that there.
3. I think using an Abei 2 that looks very similar to, but not exactly the same as, Abei 1 would work. Maybe just in different clothes. If we are going to use the colours I suggested for the Destroyer (fire colours) - not there's an obligation to - then maybe he could wear a robe in those colours.

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nimono » 2 years ago

So to those who haven't noticed: Doctor Shemp just left us some "kind" messages in the AZCT dropbox!

Because he's banned from the talkhaus, he's refusing to allow us to use ANYTHING he made for the project. Not music, not dungeons, not overworld...and not the plot. So now we have to come up with something new. :/ Any ideas?

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Leet » 2 years ago

honestly

i... i kind of doubt the game can even be completed being set back this much

this does give me more incentive to finally stop being lazy and start contributing things tho

that said, its hard to come up with a plot out of nothing

so much of this game was built around shemp's plot, too, like- like, this is... if ALL traces of shemp have to be removed, then this arguably destroys the project more than the talkhaustrophae did :s
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby jayScribble » 2 years ago

Nimono wrote:So to those who haven't noticed: Doctor Shemp just left us some "kind" messages in the AZCT dropbox!

Because he's banned from the talkhaus, he's refusing to allow us to use ANYTHING he made for the project. Not music, not dungeons, not overworld...and not the plot. So now we have to come up with something new. :/ Any ideas?
I have a few ideas, but none of it crystal clear yet. It's going to be difficult on remembering all the things I sort of thought of for the plot, but didn't really have the skills yet to implement or develop them in form.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nabe » 2 years ago

Well... that's cute. He even deleted the Overworld 1 .qst itself, which at this point contains so much content that isn't his that getting rid of it sabotages the entire project. My re-sync just now fixes that. :) I've now moved it to "Master Copy" in the root folder, and moved the scripts to the Script folder on the root as well. No better time than now to reshuffle.

I won't be deleting any of Shemp's stuff in the Master yet; it makes more sense to re-purpose the space as we go. Obviously we won't be using any of it. That is what it is.

I'd really like to keep the verse style, minus any dialogue Shemp wrote (which is very little). I don't even like iambic pentameter, but between rewrites and new stuff I've written too much in that style to switch BACK again. Shemp said himself that it was inspired by an episode of Star Trek.

We should have a brainstorm on Skype to hash this out more quickly. (nabeshingdw is me.) I don't see this being a massive setback. More to the point though, I've already spent so much time on this project that I don't see myself setting it aside until it's done.

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby raocow » 2 years ago

For the plot thing, I would be glad to help out in any way that I can! In fact more than I'd need to!

From what I gather the old plot was something about getting into some kind of alternate dimension, but honestly... I think it would be more interesting if it was in the actual atxs-world. The world itself is so incredibly loosely defined that it should be really, really easy to work with. Ask me questions, anything at all. There's a lot of 'stuff' but most we never got to any in the comic per se.

Like the whole of AT:xs happens somewhere called 'Continent 1' which is pretty much a huge wasteland due to the damages caused by people weilding incredible power, with very isolated small gathering of people, which to me would fit in well with something made to work with Zelda.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby KobaBeach » 2 years ago

Nimono wrote:So to those who haven't noticed: Doctor Shemp just left us some "kind" messages in the AZCT dropbox!

Because he's banned from the talkhaus, he's refusing to allow us to use ANYTHING he made for the project. Not music, not dungeons, not overworld...and not the plot. So now we have to come up with something new. :/ Any ideas?
jesus fucking christ shemp

for dungeon 8, if you're not gonna use original music in all dungeons, just use an 8-bit remix of the dark underground from romancing saga 3
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Clamestarebla » 2 years ago

I can try my hand at 8-bit music making. I have average experience with Famitracker and I'm decent at composing in general.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nimono » 2 years ago

Clamestarebla wrote:I can try my hand at 8-bit music making. I have average experience with Famitracker and I'm decent at composing in general.
That would be very helpful, thank you. :)
raocow wrote:For the plot thing, I would be glad to help out in any way that I can! In fact more than I'd need to!

From what I gather the old plot was something about getting into some kind of alternate dimension, but honestly... I think it would be more interesting if it was in the actual atxs-world. The world itself is so incredibly loosely defined that it should be really, really easy to work with. Ask me questions, anything at all. There's a lot of 'stuff' but most we never got to any in the comic per se.

Like the whole of AT:xs happens somewhere called 'Continent 1' which is pretty much a huge wasteland due to the damages caused by people weilding incredible power, with very isolated small gathering of people, which to me would fit in well with something made to work with Zelda.
Yeah, the plot was like, Sheath suddenly appeared in some alternate dimension with two islands, and the second one was going to be practically wasteland with one of the dungeons being a semi-abandoned city- basically, exactly what you just described! Then the end would tie into her appearance in ASMBXT1 but I dunno if that was still being used or not.


For the record, here's what we need to redo now that Shemp is disallowing use of what he made:

-Music
-First Overworld
-Plot and dialogue
-Bomb dungeon and Golden Arrows minidungeon

Any help with any of these is most appreciated! Hopefully we can get these back soon.

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby KingTwelveSixteen » 2 years ago

Are we going to keep the whole 'first overworld is all neat and square while the second is all messy and actual-land-y'?

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nimono » 2 years ago

Probably not, depending on what we change the plot to.

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nabe » 2 years ago

We certainly could. Whatever we do, the second overworld shouldn't have to change too terribly.

raocow wrote:For the plot thing, I would be glad to help out in any way that I can! In fact more than I'd need to!

From what I gather the old plot was something about getting into some kind of alternate dimension, but honestly... I think it would be more interesting if it was in the actual atxs-world. The world itself is so incredibly loosely defined that it should be really, really easy to work with. Ask me questions, anything at all. There's a lot of 'stuff' but most we never got to any in the comic per se.

Like the whole of AT:xs happens somewhere called 'Continent 1' which is pretty much a huge wasteland due to the damages caused by people weilding incredible power, with very isolated small gathering of people, which to me would fit in well with something made to work with Zelda.
This would be a great idea, because frankly I've snuck in way too many atxs references as it is. :D

- Is there a Continent 2? 3?
- Where did AAT take place?
- Where IS the cabin and the twilight bayou? Does it exist?
- Could we possibly use selected panels from a.t.x.s. in a couple places? (which I've already done as placeholders, goodness me)

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby raocow » 2 years ago

There is indeed a Continent 2 and 3. Continent 2 is larger and densely populated. The coastal area is a desertic region that eventually leads to a megapolis that takes up most of the rest of the continent. 3 is distant from the other two and is basically a bunch of islands over a large surface of water, with a more religiously disposed overall population.

Man, you are gonna have to refresh my memory, I forgot what aat is, haha...

The cabin would have been found in continent 2, and it does exist.

Go crazy about using panels!
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nabe » 2 years ago

raocow wrote:Man, you are gonna have to refresh my memory, I forgot what aat is, haha...
raooooocoooooow
http://aat.comicdish.com


Okay, so AZCT plot spoilers once more (stuff not related to Shemp):
I always intended for Sheath to go to the cabin in the bayou after the final boss fight -- which is why I had her bring it up several times over the course of the game. In the original plot, it would have jogged her memory about who she was. I'd still like to use it here somehow, especially if we're using a.t.x.s. lands

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby raocow » 2 years ago

oh man that.

That's more of an alternate reality or past reincarnation or something.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nabe » 2 years ago

raocow wrote:There is indeed a Continent 2 and 3. Continent 2 is larger and densely populated. The coastal area is a desertic region that eventually leads to a megapolis that takes up most of the rest of the continent. 3 is distant from the other two and is basically a bunch of islands over a large surface of water, with a more religiously disposed overall population.

Man, you are gonna have to refresh my memory, I forgot what aat is, haha...

The cabin would have been found in continent 2, and it does exist.

Go crazy about using panels!
Are Continents 1 and 2 (and 3) near each other?
Is much known about the people of Continent 3?
Are there any mysterious rumours about what's under the sea?
Do people travel the world at all? By sea?
Would the cabin be within the megapolis?
Is anywhere really, really snowy?

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby raocow » 2 years ago

1 and 2 are about as close as the america and europe are, 3 is kind of a lot more isolated though.

They are known, yes. You could say that in-world, they are stereotyped as religious hippies but that's a stereotype.

There are no known mysterious rumour about what is under the sea other than the usual local sea monster stories and whatnot. If you want to expound on this go free!

Do people travel the world at all? By sea?
Yup! By boat over sea mostly, by air is kind of too dangerous overall but flying vehicules DO exist too.

Would the cabin be within the megapolis?
It'd be like... in an isolated swampy region that hasn't been eaten by the 'megacity' yet.

Is anywhere really, really snowy?
Yup, the north and south polls are pretty much like ours, and the Monastery from its chapter is pretty much in the middle of a huge snowfield.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby En Gardevoir » 2 years ago

Wow this project recovered quickly and dramatically (KEEP IT UP GUYS). Ever since I saw that you guys are going to make this, I might as well try this out because I'm an ATXS fan. But first of all, I need to gain some Zelda Classic knowledge.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nabe » 2 years ago

raocow wrote:1 and 2 are about as close as the america and europe are, 3 is kind of a lot more isolated though.

They are known, yes. You could say that in-world, they are stereotyped as religious hippies but that's a stereotype.

There are no known mysterious rumour about what is under the sea other than the usual local sea monster stories and whatnot. If you want to expound on this go free!

Do people travel the world at all? By sea?
Yup! By boat over sea mostly, by air is kind of too dangerous overall but flying vehicules DO exist too.

Would the cabin be within the megapolis?
It'd be like... in an isolated swampy region that hasn't been eaten by the 'megacity' yet.

Is anywhere really, really snowy?
Yup, the north and south polls are pretty much like ours, and the Monastery from its chapter is pretty much in the middle of a huge snowfield.
Might there be any cultures in atxs-world who speak English differently? Are there other languages? French?

Where in the world are Sheath and Brake from?

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nabe » 2 years ago

Apologies for double-posting; I woke up this morning with a plot outline in my head and want to get it down.

Here's everything that needs to be addressed in the AZCT plot, IMO: (spoilers)
- Why Sheath can die! This doesn't have to be said outright, but there should be a reason for it.
- Why Sheath is collecting eight triangles.
- Why her friends aren't with her. If it's atxs-world or otherwise, Sheath likes to travel in a party.
And here's my plot outline. The key things are in bold, with notes following. (potential spoilers)
First scene: Sheath finally reaches the cabin in the bayou. The cabin is gloomy and foreboding, see http://atxs.comicdish.com/index.php?pageID=4 She's on Continent 2 in atxs-world, but that's never expressed directly. Sheath is alone at the cabin. Her friends are probably preoccupied in the megacity, doing all the things they couldn't do in the wastelands; e.g. Float is probably at the world's largest shopping mall.

What she sees when she looks inside the cabin (unseen by the player) makes her "feel really wrong, like she's homesick". Seeing CABIN THING makes Sheath self-aware of her own mortality, and thus able to die, which is the wrongness she feels. That's not explicitly stated in the plot, she just feels wrong.

Somebody close to Sheath tells her she's feeling a crisis of self, and she needs to go on a journey to find herself. (This could be brother Brake, who then goes on to say something about discovering yourself in God, but she's already left.)

So, Sheath goes to the megapolis port, and goes off on a ship to LITERALLY find herself. Key image: Sheath on a ship, in a cloak, looking out thoughtfully at the water while she stuffs her mouth with carrots from a barrel of carrots next to her. Title overlaid.

In this land she's travelled to, she has to find and assemble the eight Facets of Self. Or maybe "Facettes d'Élan Vital"? Someone in this land tells her that she should do this, perhaps the antagonist tricking her into doing it for their own nefarious ends. Conveniently, this would mean I wouldn't have to change the animation for the Triforce pieces. :D

At this point, the antagonist introduces themselves, and does antagonistic things. Since it's in atxs-world, they should have an atxs name, which should be a verb (thanks, raocow). They probably want to do something with the assembled "Whole Gem of Self", and/or generally want to cause carnage.

One of the fights near/at the end would be Shadow Sheath. This is nice thematically since the plot is about Sheath finding herself, it's a simple reference to Zelda 2 without being over the top, and it's easy to script. And the conversation between the two Sheaths would be really fun to write.

In the end, it turns out that the Facets of Self didn't do anything for Sheath, but the journey helped her "feel alright again". She probably tosses the completed gem into a hole. She comes to terms with herself again, so it's a happy ending. But she doesn't lose the self-awareness, which is why she's still not immortal later in ASMBXT.
Obviously there's plenty to be filled in here.
Last edited by Nabe on 04 Mar 2015, 15:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby En Gardevoir » 2 years ago

So, in AZCT, after Sgeath FINALLY found the Twilit Cabin, she entered the cabin but loses her immortality after that. So her mission there was to either get her immortality back or just accidentally stumble on something else?
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nabe » 2 years ago

En Gardevoir wrote:
So, in AZCT, after Sgeath FINALLY found the Twilit Cabin, she entered the cabin but loses her immortality after that. So her mission there was to either get her immortality back or just accidentally stumble on something else?
Sheath's "immortality" is actually her not recognizing that she's been hurt or killed, right? But Sheath sees something in the cabin that gives her that awareness. She realizes that she's mortal.

But Sheath doesn't understand what that feeling is. She just feels out of sorts, like she isn't herself. And since she doesn't understand the metaphor "to lose yourself", her mission in the game is to literally find herself.

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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby raocow » 2 years ago

There has been characters with accents so it's understood that other languages exist, yeah.

And I like the general plot idea. Basically the principles of atxs is that will matter more over reality. Sheath kind of doesn't have a mental concept for 'limit' and 'harm' so those rules just never applied to herself. I think I can see this working out, yes.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot

Postby Nimono » 2 years ago

En Gardevoir wrote:Wow this project recovered quickly and dramatically (KEEP IT UP GUYS). Ever since I saw that you guys are going to make this, I might as well try this out because I'm an ATXS fan. But first of all, I need to gain some Zelda Classic knowledge.
Don't be afraid to ask for help! I'm always available if you need any, and I'd love to help you learn the editor if you want! c:
Nabe wrote:Apologies for double-posting; I woke up this morning with a plot outline in my head and want to get it down.

Here's everything that needs to be addressed in the AZCT plot, IMO: (spoilers)
- Why Sheath can die! This doesn't have to be said outright, but there should be a reason for it.
- Why Sheath is collecting eight triangles.
- Why her friends aren't with her. If it's atxs-world or otherwise, Sheath likes to travel in a party.
And here's my plot outline. The key things are in bold, with notes following. (potential spoilers)
First scene: Sheath finally reaches the cabin in the bayou. The cabin is gloomy and foreboding, see http://atxs.comicdish.com/index.php?pageID=4 She's on Continent 2 in atxs-world, but that's never expressed directly. Sheath is alone at the cabin. Her friends are probably preoccupied in the megacity, doing all the things they couldn't do in the wastelands; e.g. Float is probably at the world's largest shopping mall.

What she sees when she looks inside the cabin (unseen by the player) makes her "feel really wrong, like she's homesick". Seeing CABIN THING makes Sheath self-aware of her own mortality, and thus able to die, which is the wrongness she feels. That's not explicitly stated in the plot, she just feels wrong.

Somebody close to Sheath tells her she's feeling a crisis of self, and she needs to go on a journey to find herself. (This could be brother Brake, who then goes on to say something about discovering yourself in God, but she's already left.)

So, Sheath goes to the megapolis port, and goes off on a ship to LITERALLY find herself. Key image: Sheath on a ship, in a cloak, looking out thoughtfully at the water while she stuffs her mouth with carrots from a barrel of carrots next to her. Title overlaid.

In this land she's travelled to, she has to find and assemble the eight Facets of Self. Or maybe "Facettes d'Élan Vital"? Someone in this land tells her that she should do this, perhaps the antagonist tricking her into doing it for their own nefarious ends. Conveniently, this would mean I wouldn't have to change the animation for the Triforce pieces. :D

At this point, the antagonist introduces themselves, and does antagonistic things. Since it's in atxs-world, they should have an atxs name, e.g. Malaise, Unrest. They probably want to do something with the assembled "Whole Gem of Self", and/or generally want to cause carnage.

One of the fights near/at the end would be Shadow Sheath. This is nice thematically since the plot is about Sheath finding herself, it's a simple reference to Zelda 2 without being over the top, and it's easy to script. And the conversation between the two Sheaths would be really fun to write.

In the end, it turns out that the Facets of Self didn't do anything for Sheath, but the journey helped her "feel alright again". She probably tosses the completed gem into a hole. She comes to terms with herself again, so it's a happy ending. But she doesn't lose the self-awareness, which is why she's still not immortal later in ASMBXT.
Obviously there's plenty to be filled in here.
I like this idea! Though I must wonder if the facets of self should be changed to represent various virtues, although that might require some dungeons to change themes to remain thematically appropriate. Or not!


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