SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
- jayScribble
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SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
... Yeah I got nothing. Stupid me didn't save the entire plot. Can Doctor Shemp post in spoilers his plot ideas we're using?
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
Here's what I remember of it, in brief, with some suggested modifications:
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
Great memory (or good note-taking).
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
I mentioned in the overworld thread that the Island 1 I made was using a revised version of the plot which I believe makes it less generic. Here is the revision:
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
Question from Planning Thread:
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
Oh, I thought I answered that. Maybe I didn't. It's Wonderland.
However, as a note, I don't want to repeat what happened in A2XT, and have someone (in this case me) with high authority on the story. If one of you thinks part of it needs to be changed, please say so.
However, as a note, I don't want to repeat what happened in A2XT, and have someone (in this case me) with high authority on the story. If one of you thinks part of it needs to be changed, please say so.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
I've been thinking of it as like a small plane of existence that consists entirely of the islands that are in the game.
You know, cause the gods keep wrecking and recreating it so it couldn't be too big, and it's funnier if they're just lazy and don't bother with anything reasonably sized.
Though I have been slightly considering making a special 'Shattered Isles' bit to the right of Shade Isle that has nothing required to beat the game, horribly destroyed everything, super-dangerous enemies, no heart pieces, active volcanoes, bosses as regular foes, ect.
The general idea was that the first island is like the creator's island, the second is either half-destroyer half-creator or just the maintainer's isle (since it's all mostly destroyed but still hanging in there), and the third 'not technically an island but I'm calling it that anyway' island represents only the destroyer.
I haven't actually made anything for it or anything like that though, 'cause it would probably be a bunch of work. Need custom 'ash' combos, custom 'destroyed' combos, maybe some volcano stuff, something that looks like water and can connect to water but hurts if you touch it, a custom palette, and doing the actual 'like the size of an overworld map' map.
Though considering it's all destroyed, it would probably only ADD to it to have some screens completely unreachable or with like nothing but bones on the ground or stuff like that.
I have put to much though into this for something I am probably not going to create.
...What did that have to do with the type of world the gods create/destroy? I kind of forgot.
You know, cause the gods keep wrecking and recreating it so it couldn't be too big, and it's funnier if they're just lazy and don't bother with anything reasonably sized.
Though I have been slightly considering making a special 'Shattered Isles' bit to the right of Shade Isle that has nothing required to beat the game, horribly destroyed everything, super-dangerous enemies, no heart pieces, active volcanoes, bosses as regular foes, ect.
The general idea was that the first island is like the creator's island, the second is either half-destroyer half-creator or just the maintainer's isle (since it's all mostly destroyed but still hanging in there), and the third 'not technically an island but I'm calling it that anyway' island represents only the destroyer.
I haven't actually made anything for it or anything like that though, 'cause it would probably be a bunch of work. Need custom 'ash' combos, custom 'destroyed' combos, maybe some volcano stuff, something that looks like water and can connect to water but hurts if you touch it, a custom palette, and doing the actual 'like the size of an overworld map' map.
Though considering it's all destroyed, it would probably only ADD to it to have some screens completely unreachable or with like nothing but bones on the ground or stuff like that.
I have put to much though into this for something I am probably not going to create.
...What did that have to do with the type of world the gods create/destroy? I kind of forgot.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
I did actually think of something that would cover that reason as well as explain some of the silliness: although their followers are extremely serious, the gods themselves have the mentalities and temperaments of children.
Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
You know, that would be quite interesting. The Creator represents the child's massive imagination, creating wonderful ideas on a whim, the Destroyer represents a child's destructive nature and regularly pitches fits for not getting his way, and the Maintainer is the parent/babysitter/legal guardian, watching over the kids, trying so hard to make sure they get along and don't hurt each other, but is just massively frustrated and exasperated at their constant shenanigans. :DDoctor Shemp wrote:I did actually think of something that would cover that reason as well as explain some of the silliness: although their followers are extremely serious, the gods themselves have the mentalities and temperaments of children.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
^ This is very cool.
Without the Wonderland context, the plot has always read to me as The Creator being
That idea jumped out at me very early on, because
Importantly, I don't think this would even be mentioned in the main plot, because I think that would sacrifice the integrity of that plot and the fact that it can (and should) stand entirely on its own. It would instead be revealed after the credits in a short scene. But there would be some clues. One clue would be
I don't mean to attempt to shoehorn references to the other games into this plot, but this has always felt really natural to me, so much so that I didn't remember it was only my headcanon until recently.
Without the Wonderland context, the plot has always read to me as The Creator being
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
It's nice to hear about the different interpretations of the plot people had.
It's pretty interesting.
It's pretty interesting.
Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
At the same time, though, wasn't the plot brought up at one point as ending with Sheath getting sent to the Castle of No Significance? I haven't played A2XT yet, but having the Creator be one of the siblings makes sense to me as a lure to Demo and Iris. Yeah, Sheath doesn't really do anything, but one could say Sheath being there helped them get to the plot of A2XT. (of course that's kinda stretching it, but it's just an idea.)raekuul wrote:I'd rather not shoehorn ASMT into this if at all possible; if Sheath does exist within that canon then it ruins the joke of her just randomly being there in the ASMBXT games.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
My personal view is that A2XT is already an overly complex mess of semi-contradictory storylines (for example, try working out whether it's set before or after ASMT, and if it is set before, how are the characters reset to what they are at the start of ASMT?), and that's probably only going to get more true as further episodes come out, and so the chance of us accidentally creating another contradiction or inconsistency, or indeed more than one, by connecting AZCT with A2XT is too high to make it worth it.
Given the fact that there's technical limitations to deal with in AZCT's story - I don't have the slightest clue how to set up a cutscene, for example - and I think we're already going to have our work cut out for us making AZCT's story make sense in and of itself, let alone in combination with up to four A2XT games, ASMBXT and ASMT.
Given the fact that there's technical limitations to deal with in AZCT's story - I don't have the slightest clue how to set up a cutscene, for example - and I think we're already going to have our work cut out for us making AZCT's story make sense in and of itself, let alone in combination with up to four A2XT games, ASMBXT and ASMT.
Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
If it's cutscenes we want, I could help with that. Scripting is all we need! ...but personally, since this is our first (and possibly last) Zelda Classic project, I think we should keep it simple. There's no need to overdo it on our first go! ASMBXT wasn't really overdone, it was just a silly, simple "hey go get leeks from this silly castle"Doctor Shemp wrote:My personal view is that A2XT is already an overly complex mess of semi-contradictory storylines (for example, try working out whether it's set before or after ASMT, and if it is set before, how are the characters reset to what they are at the start of ASMT?), and that's probably only going to get more true as further episodes come out, and so the chance of us accidentally creating another contradiction or inconsistency, or indeed more than one, by connecting AZCT with A2XT is too high to make it worth it.
Given the fact that there's technical limitations to deal with in AZCT's story - I don't have the slightest clue how to set up a cutscene, for example - and I think we're already going to have our work cut out for us making AZCT's story make sense in and of itself, let alone in combination with up to four A2XT games, ASMBXT and ASMT.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
Moving characters (i.e. FFCs) around, playing sound effects, and altering combos isn't hard. All of that stuff can be set up in sequence, padded with Waitframes. So as long as you have an idea of what to do they're really easy to write.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
Yeah, between the three of us we can have cutscenes done very quickly, and with basically no limitations. We just need to have storyboarding and dialogue, because the technical half of things is going to need to built around that, rather than vice-versa. We can build it, we have the technology.
I would never suggest that my idea makes sense in context of the existing plot -- rather, this is modeled after Hideo Kojima, where you write the plot, and leave the making sense part for later. :D It could be a gaiden, if you will, and wouldn't necessarily have to muddy anything.
But, look. More importantly, I'm trying to nail down a plot nugget in the form of "What do the Shards of the Creator look like? / What is the Creator?" so I know what to design for with subscreen/item sprites. I also want to find room for the Demo boss if possible. And those two objectives happen to align with my spoilered plot idea. I respect if you want to keep the plot unsullied, so to speak, but I'd like to figure out at least the shards soon, because it factors into a lot of my visual work.
I would never suggest that my idea makes sense in context of the existing plot -- rather, this is modeled after Hideo Kojima, where you write the plot, and leave the making sense part for later. :D It could be a gaiden, if you will, and wouldn't necessarily have to muddy anything.
But, look. More importantly, I'm trying to nail down a plot nugget in the form of "What do the Shards of the Creator look like? / What is the Creator?" so I know what to design for with subscreen/item sprites. I also want to find room for the Demo boss if possible. And those two objectives happen to align with my spoilered plot idea. I respect if you want to keep the plot unsullied, so to speak, but I'd like to figure out at least the shards soon, because it factors into a lot of my visual work.
Last edited by Nabe 9 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
i think you could nod slightly to the other games' existence but if i were yall i wouldnt integrate them too hard. just hint at it and let the players connect them how they see fit.
my thoughts up until now regarding timeline is basically this
so basically the asmt timeline is a complete mess, and this is before the apparent time-travel-alternate-timeline shenans that may happen in a2xt and really shouldnt be convoluted any more by seperate things indeed
oh geez i forgot to mention this mess in my plothole post in the a2xt boardDoctor Shemp wrote:try working out whether it's set before or after ASMT, and if it is set before, how are the characters reset to what they are at the start of ASMT?
my thoughts up until now regarding timeline is basically this
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
A2MT didn't happen, the games go WTH, ASMBXT, A2XT and then ASMT.Leet wrote:oh geez i forgot to mention this mess in my plothole post in the a2xt board
my thoughts up until now regarding timeline is basically thisso basically the asmt timeline is a complete mess, and this is before the apparent time-travel-alternate-timeline shenans that may happen in a2xt and really shouldnt be convoluted any more by seperate things indeed
There are ton of king Charles the IVs in the universe and demo just happens to make a habit of killing them all the time.
The Charlies in the HUB are the ones from "Charlie's Revenge".
There, plot holes fixed.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
Heh. I think ending the game by having you finally assemble the shards of the creator and then they turn into Science could be pretty funny.
It would be like:
Or something in that general vicinity is what I'm thinking of.
Either that or Sheathe says that Science is evil and just kills Science with a sword or something shortly after he appears and then goes all 'Hooray! We've/I've defeated Science!'. That would probably be hilarious.
It would be like:
Either that or Sheathe says that Science is evil and just kills Science with a sword or something shortly after he appears and then goes all 'Hooray! We've/I've defeated Science!'. That would probably be hilarious.
Last edited by KingTwelveSixteen 9 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
Oh, okay.Demolition wrote:A2MT didn't happen, the games go WTH, ASMBXT, A2XT and then ASMT.Leet wrote:oh geez i forgot to mention this mess in my plothole post in the a2xt board
my thoughts up until now regarding timeline is basically thisso basically the asmt timeline is a complete mess, and this is before the apparent time-travel-alternate-timeline shenans that may happen in a2xt and really shouldnt be convoluted any more by seperate things indeed
There are ton of king Charles the IVs in the universe and demo just happens to make a habit of killing them all the time.
The Charlies in the HUB are the ones from "Charlie's Revenge".
There, plot holes fixed.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
Blood Ghoul wrote:Sometimes it seems my blood spurts out in gobs, as if it were a fountain's pulsing sobs. I clearly hear it mutter as it goes yet cannot find the wound from which it flows. Before I met you, baby, I didn't know what I was missing.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
This is more overt than I was going for, but Sheath's indifference to the villagers questioning their entire existence is pretty hilarious.KingTwelveSixteen wrote:Heh. I think ending the game by having you finally assemble the shards of the creator and then they turn into Science could be pretty funny.
It would be like:Or something in that general vicinity is what I'm thinking of.
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Re: SPOILER ALERT: AZCT Plot
New and separate idea.
If there's not going to be any connectivity to the canon, then maybe the game should go out of its way to make that clear, by taking a page from Majora's Mask (the game in which Link falls down the hole to Wonderland).
Familiar characters from the canon could appear visually, with different names, just like in Majora's Mask or the traditional Wizard of Oz. By doing that, we make it clear that this game sidestepped the canon entirely. And not only would that allow for the inclusion of the Demo boss (because in that context, it's not actually Demo), but The Creator could literally be the Moon falling down to destroy the world, stolen straight from Majora's Mask (which then allows me to make a lovely Moon graphic on the subscreen).
Bear with me though, that's just where the idea originates. If the Creator were the moon, then the Destroyer would be the planet itself trying to pull down the moon, and the Maintainer would be the counteracting magical force helping to keep the two apart (the sky?). In addition, the three Gods would still have the physical avatars that appear in Shemp's plot, with their physical actions on the islands mirroring that macro-level struggle. The Destroyer's avatar is destroying the islands and ruining the people's lives to discourage anyone from taking the necessary steps to reverse the Creator's fall from the sky, which will cause Destruction on the scale of the whole planet.
And in addition to this keeping things as their own coherently-plotted package, the Moon reference and general closeness to the framework of Majora's Mask shows off that we're keeping Zelda at the heart of this thing.
If there's not going to be any connectivity to the canon, then maybe the game should go out of its way to make that clear, by taking a page from Majora's Mask (the game in which Link falls down the hole to Wonderland).
Familiar characters from the canon could appear visually, with different names, just like in Majora's Mask or the traditional Wizard of Oz. By doing that, we make it clear that this game sidestepped the canon entirely. And not only would that allow for the inclusion of the Demo boss (because in that context, it's not actually Demo), but The Creator could literally be the Moon falling down to destroy the world, stolen straight from Majora's Mask (which then allows me to make a lovely Moon graphic on the subscreen).
Bear with me though, that's just where the idea originates. If the Creator were the moon, then the Destroyer would be the planet itself trying to pull down the moon, and the Maintainer would be the counteracting magical force helping to keep the two apart (the sky?). In addition, the three Gods would still have the physical avatars that appear in Shemp's plot, with their physical actions on the islands mirroring that macro-level struggle. The Destroyer's avatar is destroying the islands and ruining the people's lives to discourage anyone from taking the necessary steps to reverse the Creator's fall from the sky, which will cause Destruction on the scale of the whole planet.
And in addition to this keeping things as their own coherently-plotted package, the Moon reference and general closeness to the framework of Majora's Mask shows off that we're keeping Zelda at the heart of this thing.