raocow's talkhaus

Should work now -- 768 was set to Script 2 instead of flag 98.

The silliness could probably be fudged into the revised plot as the Maintainer's enforced stagnation being imperfect but causing the few bits of change to be change in odd and unexpected ways.

Kind of a general thing (I have to bear this in mind for my levels as well), but throwing masses and masses of enemies that don't drop anything at the player like me and shemp are doing kinda is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Is it possible to make the bats and the little slimes at least have a chance at dropping like hearts and stuff?

raekuul wrote:Kind of a general thing (I have to bear this in mind for my levels as well), but throwing masses and masses of enemies that don't drop anything at the player like me and shemp are doing kinda is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Is it possible to make the bats and the little slimes at least have a chance at dropping like hearts and stuff?

Yup, just go to Quest > Enemies, click on the enemies, and go to the dropset box and give them the dropset you want.

We probably need to have a proper discussion on enemy drops in general at some point given that in the standard set-up barely any enemies drop arrows as the standard setup doesn't even have arrows, with the bow costing 1 rupee to fire each time instead, like in the original LoZ. So we probably need to change that, and we might as well look at all of them when we do.

Yeah, that's a great plan. Make 5 arrow drops the standard, like LttP. A lot of quests forget to do this, but use real arrows anyway, and it makes the bow practically unusable.

We can easily do that just by editing the drop sets themselves than the enemies. Heck, we could even have enemies that only dropped arrows! :D

@dropsets, it's probably best to tailor the enemies and which sets they use based on how they've been used in the core dungeons. For example, Vires or Pols Voices should drop arrows, because they're all over Level 4.

Doctor Shemp wrote:The silliness could probably be fudged into the revised plot as the Maintainer's enforced stagnation being imperfect but causing the few bits of change to be change in odd and unexpected ways.

Does it need to fudged, though? The plot shouldn't have to draw attention to things in the game being silly, unless you're interested in turning it into a core plot point. The draft you have is good.


EDIT
Candy concepts: Second from the right is meant to be Rockets (Smarties in America).

CSets 5/7/1/8 for the candy, 8 for the candy cane, 6 (Sheath palette) for the two rightmost sprites.

I like it, Nabe! I'll go ahead and implement them in the Shield dungeon. :D


By the way, guys. Aren't we being a bit slow on the design? I mean, we still have 6 dungeons left to finish... I haven't heard anything about the final dungeon, boomerang dungeon, or quiver dungeon in quite a while; what, if anything, is going on with them? Are there any updates to give on their status? Have the minidungeons been abandoned? If so, should we even keep them around, in the interest of getting done quickly since we're pretty much not getting any new help?

Aye, leader. Going down the list from major to minor:

- Level 6 seems to be at least planned if not in the process of building, and will need a custom boss when done. I'm sure raekuul's got it covered.

- The final dungeon is to my knowledge unbuilt, aside from Shemp's section (not on Dropbox), and the shmup phase of the boss fight. It would be good to start kicking up activity on that, and/or assigning someone to just build the whole thing, but there's still plenty of time as long as planning begins again soon.

- Dialogue and cutscenes need to be planned and written. Shemp should take point on this if he has time. When writing and storyboarding / some degree of specific planning is done, it would be good to ask [AOD] to give those plans a once-over if he will, whether or not Sheath ends up having dialogue. When the plans are set in stone, implementation won't take any longer than a week.

- I sent a PM to KingTwelveSixteen a few days ago about whether or not he's planning to finish the Island 2 overworld. Since it's already 60% done, I figured I'd wait another week before rushing to finish the build myself. Dibs if he doesn't want it, though.

- The boomerang/chakram minidungeon is going to be extended and have the current sections revamped by me. I intend to have that ready for playtesting this weekend and polished by the 16th.

- JayScribble's Quiver minidungeon is a question mark in terms of building, but Lejes laid down some scripting foundation, and we know his plan for it, so I don't see any reason it won't get done. The rest of the minidungeons are complete or in various stages of polish, except for Shield which is coming along nicely.

- Enemy and item replacements need to be figured out, at some point, and at that time we should also figure out dropsets.


Optional:
- I'd like to get Rupee cave text (length of a tweet) from 20-30 people through PMs, as well as graphics to represent them of 4 tiles or less. At the very least, everyone who has designed a mini/dungeon should send that to me and/or will be contacted by me about it.

Hey Nabe, are the last two Candies 8-bit tiles or are they using an edited palette? I'm having difficulty figuring out what colors they should be using, and if it's the latter, could you send me the palette as well?

It's edited CSet 6 from Overworld 1 for Sheath. Purple is the transparency (which I filled in with solid black on the web copy of the tiles), and anything after the green can be black buffer.

Of course, I doubt you'll want to edit 6 in the Shield minidungeon and make Link candy-coloured. Here they are in ooccoo with preserved colour information: Just do a Grab on this file, CSet 6, no recolour.

The thing about Cset 6, though, is that it changes when you get the Blue/Red/Gold Rings. It'd be much better to have them on a static CSet (say, 10 or 11, since they're barely used) than 6 or 9 that change for whatever reason.

Yeah, I only used CSet 6 for the concepts because it already had a variety of pastel colours immediately available. If AZCT is going to use candy (and uses these sprites in particular) then I'll add the colours into 11 and tweak them properly for a final version.

Cset 6 changes based on Link's Color? I'll have to remember that.

I'm going to tweak the 1st overworld a bit; I need to fix the minimap for Wyvern Cavern (the sideview rooms and the 2nd Fire Gleeok room aren't supposed to show up), the door exit for Wyvern Cavern wasn't updated when it was inserted, and I'm going to scale back the Fire Gleeoks to have fewer heads (1st one to 2 and 2nd to 3). I'm also going to set the red bats (but not the blue ones) to drop from the Health dropset.

Does anyone object to me applying "Sideview Gravity" and "Sideview Ladder" to all the sideview rooms thus far? I want to do it for consistency's sake.

raekuul wrote:Cset 6 changes based on Link's Color? I'll have to remember that.

CSet 6 changes based on Link's current color because CSet 6 is the palette Link uses. Pols Voices also use CSet 6 by default, which is why their whiskers change color when Link does. Other things that change color with Link by default are:

-Wooden Arrows
-Wooden Boomerang
-Bow
-Boots
-Quiver
-Raft
-Wooden Sword
-Wallets


But, again, these are the defaults, we can easily change the graphics and the palettes they use.

Just had a file conflict with the overworld but it's small -- I'll merge mine tonight when raekuul's done.

I'm already out of it; I was done already when the conflict notifier popped up.

Alright, I've fixed it up.

I've already got some great rupee cave submissions, so it looks like this is on. You guys should PM me one as well: a decently-sized message, and a sprite (max 64x64, 16 colours or less). Depending on how many rupee cave submissions we get, we devs might have heart piece caves instead so there aren't way too many rupees (50 per cave adds up quickly).

I was just wondering, should we make our own dungeon wall tileset to minimize the amount of tiles we use? I mean, just adding inner corners requires a TON of tiles currently for the Outlands set just to catch all possible corner setups, and the Z1 set needs a ton just for the edges anyway, so I think it'd help a ton to make our own that doesn't need so many tiles in any situation. Two tiles for the edges, two for inner corners, two for outer corners...that should be all that's necessary. Then decorative stuff, of course.

While we're on the subject; what batch of tiles should I use for Etwas Ruins?

Also: We really need to clean up the overworld. A lot of microcaves are spitting me out into a rock formation, at one point the non-triforce exit for Wyvern Cavern was spitting me out in the middle of the ocean north of the island, and two of the staircases in Leever Nest spat me out in a broken version of the overworld that used a different subscreen layout.

I'm largely playing through so that I have a feel for about where the players will be when getting to Etwas Ruins.

Also: everyone bear in mind that a gap 4 tiles wide can be cleared by the Roc's Feather.

Riolu180 wrote:I was just wondering, should we make our own dungeon wall tileset to minimize the amount of tiles we use? I mean, just adding inner corners requires a TON of tiles currently for the Outlands set just to catch all possible corner setups, and the Z1 set needs a ton just for the edges anyway, so I think it'd help a ton to make our own that doesn't need so many tiles in any situation. Two tiles for the edges, two for inner corners, two for outer corners...that should be all that's necessary. Then decorative stuff, of course.

I really like that we use the Z1 and Outlands stuff. The familiarity and retro-ness makes it more surprising when we break the mold. Specifically in Level 7, I also use the Outlands pillars in lots of outside-the-box ways that I don't think would work if we switched to a custom tileset.

raekuul wrote:Also: everyone bear in mind that a gap 4 tiles wide can be cleared by the Roc's Feather.

Three tiles, I'm pretty sure? If it's four, I need a demonstration, 'cause I can't make it happen.

The problems you've listed (and all similar issues) should now be fixed in the latest commit -- let me know if you find anything specific.

If Etwas is going to be all sideview ruins, my vote would be tiles from the original La-Mulana -- simple colour palettes, half-height floors, and all the matching ladders/spikes/doors/pushblocks you'd need. Maze of Galious has some similarly fitting stuff too.

Alternatively, there's the Gameboy Zeldas, which have a good sideview set, but you'd need to add custom stuff if you have sideview puzzles.

I should switch to OBS for my lp recording.

I can do it reliably over the river but not over actual pits; I think it may be because of how the scripts treat breaking the plane. With that said, the outland corner tile in Leever's Nest near the stairs guarded by a whistle bridge is not solid, reducing it to 2 wide.

OBS is pretty great.

I've fixed the solidity of those corners, that was my fault on the import. If that jump is still doable in Level 3, I'm pretty sure that having the early key doesn't break anything.

It's not absolutely crucial that the player can't jump the river, because all that does is force them to visit the fairy pond on their first crossing. Surprising though.

It prevents backtracking to get the key, that's about it. It looks like you still have to backtrack for the whirlwind puzzle anyway, though.