raocow's talkhaus

Yeah, he's done "turn around at the screen transition and start from the other side" before, but it makes sense that this time he'd want to clear out the entire room first.

I guess those are valid points, but still, if he had done it fast enough, I think he could have pretty well tanked it. Ah well, whatever works I suppose.

Even if those enemies would respawn, it would mostly be fine. The reason they kept shooting across the level was because he didn't finish them off and they followed him. If you respawn from the other side, they won't know he's there yet.

I just realized I really love those yellow lamps. I think we should steal them and put them in some similar like A2MT levels.

And he's hit "Think and Act Fast".

raocow, I don't know if you really read these threads, but if you do let me assure you that that one <insert expletive> room is the most demanding the game ever gets. Get past that and you're over the hump of difficulty.

You may want to teleport out and stock up on healing items for that crazy color room.

And try using rave mode more often. The rave energy recharges really fast when fighting the sentries.

Hahaha I can't believe you actually can rush through all these pieces of shit without ever killing one. I wish I had tried that when I played it myself.

raocow, I don't know if you really read these threads, but if you do let me assure you that that one <insert expletive> room is the most demanding the game ever gets. Get past that and you're over the hump of difficulty.

What. It's not even close to the hardest. Wait until he gets to the boss.

For me, Think and Act Fast was the hardest challenge for me. The next boss comes in 2nd, and the Spire (taken in slices) is a close 3rd.

LordAlexander wrote:For me, Think and Act Fast was the hardest challenge for me. The next boss comes in 2nd, and the Spire (taken in slices) is a close 3rd.

I can only agree to that. To get past this room i had to use every single healing item in my inventory. It's THAT bad .

Is there an alternate solution to this room after you legimately clear it the first time, like how La-Mulana's Hell Temple unlocks a shortcut to a certain point after you get there? Or if you need to go grind so you can buy ring slots and healing items, do you have to do this again?

Also, why doesn't Rave Mode get reset to what it was before you died whenever you died, the way items are? I understand it by itself, but holistically, it doesn't make sense compared to the way items work. With items, you can use them without worrying about wasting them if you die, but with rave mode, if you die, you've wasted it.

Finally, why didn't you just make the save point restore all of your health and spirit energy? That's pretty much what a save room means to the player (I better spam Nature's Gift, then wait for my Spirit Energy to recharge, then save) and that would speed up gameplay. If it weren't for the fact that save rooms tell you your current objective (from what I understand. I only played this a little bit because I couldn't grasp the controls, and I didn't notice the text was readable in the save rooms until raocow pointed it out, and of course they aren't in the video), I'd suggest replacing them with the amalgamated health/spirit/save point idea.

Dragooner wrote:

LordAlexander wrote:For me, Think and Act Fast was the hardest challenge for me. The next boss comes in 2nd, and the Spire (taken in slices) is a close 3rd.

I can only agree to that. To get past this room i had to use every single healing item in my inventory. It's THAT bad .

That's pretty much how I got through it too. Think and act fast is BY FAR the hardest thing in the game. The *boss* is easier for one single reason: It's a fair fight. A REALLY fair figth. But still relentless.

EagleEye wrote:Also, why doesn't Rave Mode get reset to what it was before you died whenever you died, the way items are? I understand it by itself, but holistically, it doesn't make sense compared to the way items work. With items, you can use them without worrying about wasting them if you die, but with rave mode, if you die, you've wasted it.

I don't really get this one either. It makes little sense seeing as if you're using rave mode in an area in the first place it's most likely because you're having trouble there. Then you have to grind through several deaths attempting it without rave mode until you get rave mode again just to hope that this time you can actually make it through. For me that caused me to drop the game for over a month and even then I've only ever gone back to it for at most a room before losing interest again.

Finally, why didn't you just make the save point restore all of your health and spirit energy? That's pretty much what a save room means to the player (I better spam Nature's Gift, then wait for my Spirit Energy to recharge, then save) and that would speed up gameplay. If it weren't for the fact that save rooms tell you your current objective (from what I understand. I only played this a little bit because I couldn't grasp the controls, and I didn't notice the text was readable in the save rooms until raocow pointed it out, and of course they aren't in the video), I'd suggest replacing them with the amalgamated health/spirit/save point idea.

I'd assume if there's an actual reason for it, it's likely for people who don't think of healing in a save room or aren't patient enough to.

Onyx3173 wrote:

EagleEye wrote:Also, why doesn't Rave Mode get reset to what it was before you died whenever you died, the way items are? I understand it by itself, but holistically, it doesn't make sense compared to the way items work. With items, you can use them without worrying about wasting them if you die, but with rave mode, if you die, you've wasted it.

I don't really get this one either. It makes little sense seeing as if you're using rave mode in an area in the first place it's most likely because you're having trouble there. Then you have to grind through several deaths attempting it without rave mode until you get rave mode again just to hope that this time you can actually make it through. For me that caused me to drop the game for over a month and even then I've only ever gone back to it for at most a room before losing interest again.

Reloading your save still is an option at most times where you rave when you shouldn't~

Stink Terios wrote:Reloading your save still is an option at most times where you rave when you shouldn't~

That is a good point. But what about rooms without save points?

I suppose I'm not good at the combat and better at platforming then, because the boss was really miles ahead in terms of difficulty for me. I couldn't even beat it on Normal and had to switch to easymodo just for him (which lead to one-shotting him), after hundreds of tries (maybe exaggerating a bit here) and several breaks from the game. The color room gave me a lot of trouble, but not even close to that point. I don't even remember using healing items for it, maybe 1 or 2 skittles.

Stink Terios wrote:

Dragooner wrote:

LordAlexander wrote:For me, Think and Act Fast was the hardest challenge for me. The next boss comes in 2nd, and the Spire (taken in slices) is a close 3rd.

I can only agree to that. To get past this room i had to use every single healing item in my inventory. It's THAT bad .

That's pretty much how I got through it too. Think and act fast is BY FAR the hardest thing in the game. The *boss* is easier for one single reason: It's a fair fight. A REALLY fair figth. But still relentless.

Think and act fast can be done consistently without taking too many hits; it's just that one climbing sequence (8:08) that irritated me to no end because of the unreliable jump mechanics. It's a room where you know what you're doing, but the execution is difficult. You can figure it out.

For me, the boss is too hard to figure out to the extent that you're confident. You can only hope to survive long enough while damaging fast enough.

EagleEye wrote:Also, why doesn't Rave Mode get reset to what it was before you died whenever you died, the way items are? I understand it by itself, but holistically, it doesn't make sense compared to the way items work. With items, you can use them without worrying about wasting them if you die, but with rave mode, if you die, you've wasted it.

I guess Rave Mode isn't replenished because you're not supposed to rely on it, since it trivializes the enemies. Healing still requires you to play much of the game, and they're just assisting what healing spells can do. Imagine that instead of a mushroom in stock, you have a starman.

It doesn't really matter in this level, because if you actually fight the sentries, you get it filled up in almost no time.

I'm not entirely sure what causes the 0 to appear during kill chains. I know it has to do with multiple kills happening on the same frame, and it not sending the proper text to be displayed, but nothing in the code (that I can see) makes sense of that. But hey, it's not crashing the game because of some null value, it's incredibly rare in normal play, and when it does happen, it's usually during something goofy-ish like what raocow was doing, so I'm okay with it.

To be quite honest, the controls aren't really simple enough to require the kind of precision of Think and Act Fast. In, say, Mario World, you have walking, running, jumping and spin-jumping. In this, you have walking, jumping and dashing mapped to the same button, double jump on a different button, and if you try and heal yourself, you've got another button to switch between healing and nature's gift, except that's a simplified version and you're actually switching between 4 things. And they aren't staggered, so you have to alternate between pressing it once and pressing it 3 times.

What I'm saying is this is the 2-E' of Distorted Travesty. The problem with both levels is they expect you to have as much grasp on a more complex control scheme that the user likely not used so much as a control scheme most players are extremely competent with. 2-E' and Think and Act Fast would be fine if the controls weren't so obtuse.

P.S. I'm not too mad at you about the controls being so obtuse because 1. you have an interesting concept (a more horizontally oriented character rather than vertical) and 2. as a game developer, I know physics are the fucking worst. Though you probably should have just made Think and Act Fast skipped on Easy, and made it a Medium/Hard only thing. I know that could be abused by putting it on Easy then going to Hard afterwards, but who cares?

In this, you have walking, jumping and dashing mapped to the same button

I don't understand.

P.S. I'm not too mad at you about the controls being so obtuse because 1. you have an interesting concept (a more horizontally oriented character rather than vertical) and 2. as a game developer, I know physics are the fucking worst. Though you probably should have just made Think and Act Fast skipped on Easy, and made it a Medium/Hard only thing. I know that could be abused by putting it on Easy then going to Hard afterwards, but who cares?

He's already playing it on normal, rather than easy...

I don't see why this area is so "special" that easy mode should skip it altogether. If you have hard time with it on normal and you retry it on easy, you should be able to beat it anyway because the difference becomes apparent. 1) You take less damage, and 2) you're already familiar with the level design. Some jumps are still obnoxious, but that shouldn't keep you from actually surviving your way to the end.

Maps wouldn't be skipped, but what most of the game did for easier settings was take out traps and put in extra padding for some of the jumps. The Data Segment didn't do any of that aside from enemy placement.

I've been very tempted to extend all those 1 tile platforms in 'Think and Act Fast' by 1 tile.

EagleEye wrote:The problem with both levels is they expect you to have as much grasp on a more complex control scheme that the user likely not used so much as a control scheme most players are extremely competent with. 2-E' and Think and Act Fast would be fine if the controls weren't so obtuse.

That's exactly it, the map is short-sighted in places. The only part I'm unhappy with at this time are the short platforms though. I still like the rest of it. :P Slit wants me to showcase that room without taking any damage. Once I can record again, he might get his wish.

And physics are indeed the worst, even moreso than procedural AI. Luckily I've got a much better grasp on it now.

a0n0o0m0a0l0y wrote:

In this, you have walking, jumping and dashing mapped to the same button

I don't understand.

In that sentence, "walking" is a different clause than "jumping and dashing mapped to the same button". Dash being Jump+Up, which in most other games simply still jumps. I phrased that sentence horribly, though.

a0n0o0m0a0l0y wrote:He's already playing it on normal, rather than easy...

I don't see why this area is so "special" that easy mode should skip it altogether. If you have hard time with it on normal and you retry it on easy, you should be able to beat it anyway because the difference becomes apparent. 1) You take less damage, and 2) you're already familiar with the level design. Some jumps are still obnoxious, but that shouldn't keep you from actually surviving your way to the end.

Oops, I thought raocow was playing on easy... I'd say I need to get my memory checked, but I already have...

ZephyrBurst wrote:Maps wouldn't be skipped, but what most of the game did for easier settings was take out traps and put in extra padding for some of the jumps. The Data Segment didn't do any of that aside from enemy placement.

Adapting room design to difficulty level is very good game design, and I applaud you for it.

I've been very tempted to extend all those 1 tile platforms in 'Think and Act Fast' by 1 tile. [...] The only part I'm unhappy with at this time are the short platforms though. I still like the rest of it. Slit wants me to showcase that room without taking any damage. Once I can record again, he might get his wish.

I agree with the point about the complicated controls; it has the most options/buttons of any doujin game I've played recently. It's a niche taste, though. I actually like this game because of its complex range of options and I tried to make a balanced use of them while playing.

Here's the bottom line, IMO: raocow's forté is straightforward platforming. He does well when there are simple mechanics but challenging executions. He's also good at getting creative to figure out solutions. Like using Zephyr + Earth Shift, something I didn't know was so useful until I watched him make use of it. His style is consistent instinct.

His weaknesses seem to be macromanagement - having a broad strategy and following it in real time. He shows difficulty juggling 5 (let alone 20) abilities to handle different enemies. That's why when he started this and it began to show its nature, I was wondering if this was really his type of game. Its complexity doesn't seem to suit him.

Unfortunately, the next two obstacles are precisely that. You need to be broadly prepared and responsive to the situation. Dodging attacks to survive and healing at the right time, knowing when to hide or retreat and when to advance, and remembering which method of attack to use when you do advance. Incrementally making progress in steps.

@ZephyrBurst

If you do plan to patch up the room, I have a few suggestions (spoiler for length).

I saw a youtube comment that I feel might have a point: maybe some of the precision, fiddly platforming would have been easier if you were used to keyboard controls. It's a lot simpler/faster to change between pressing left and right on the keyboard, since you have a finger on both keys already, than to move your thumb from the right side of a directional pad to the left.

Obviously you've been playing this whole game with the gamepad, and play most games with the gamepad, so the gamepad is probably still your best option. But people who use the keyboard for this probably have an easier time.

a0n0o0m0a0l0y wrote:Effort post.

Nice effort post.

Ditocoaf wrote:keyboard [...] gamepad

You know, this somehow reminds me of the old days that I wasn't actually around for when you could make whatever control scheme you wanted for your (arcade) game.

Edit: Wow, switching from a flat (CRT) monitor to a convex (CRT) monitor is really disorienting. I wish my old one hadn't broken.

Edit: FFS monitor, quit just randomly showing a lightshow instead of the computer.

Edit: Wow, brown on this monitor is EXTREMELY brown, as opposed to slightly-but-not-really-darker-red on the other one.

Ditocoaf wrote:I saw a youtube comment that I feel might have a point: maybe some of the precision, fiddly platforming would have been easier if you were used to keyboard controls. It's a lot simpler/faster to change between pressing left and right on the keyboard, since you have a finger on both keys already, than to move your thumb from the right side of a directional pad to the left.

Obviously you've been playing this whole game with the gamepad, and play most games with the gamepad, so the gamepad is probably still your best option. But people who use the keyboard for this probably have an easier time.

A lot of keyboards don't like too many key presses at once though which I could see easily being an issue. Mine for example doesn't generally like me hitting more two keys at once. For flash games that can make things very difficult. Although for some games such as Skyrim I, for some reason I'm unaware of, don't have that issue. If I recall correctly, before I set it up for Joy2key, Distorted Travesty had that issue for me. (I may actually be mistaken there though, it has been quite awhile now.)