The Super Metroid Legacy Discussion thread

[flameofdoubt]

raocow, to shinespark in a specific direction press jump and then tap/hold/press/caress the direction you want to fly. It defaults to up if you do not select a direction.

That bit with the etecoons was weird...since it didn't gain you anything at all. Unless it's some kind of arbitrary "learn to walljump here, kay?". Maybe you can shed some light on this FirePhoenix, is there anything secret in the walljump shaft?

[Ryan Cordell]

You have to follow them up to the top of the shaft (All three have to get up. Wall jumps ahoy!). One of them will go in the small area there and break the egg. Note that there'll be an item there on the far right and one in a secret passage from the bottom of it.

Cue raocow slamming his head on the desk.

Also, there's a heavily water oriented area and one area you get to after you get past the lava + head filled zone. You will get very sweet upgrades in those two.

[Kristian]

'TRUCKKKKKK!'
Hilarious.

Yeah, as I expected this LP just isn't as fun for me to watch, compared to SCW.
Mostly because I'm one of those 'rom hack' raocow fans.

[Ryan Cordell]

This is a romhack.
Super Metroid is the original. Legacy is not.

[Madacaek]

We honestly needed to watch you bang your head against a goddamn super missile block for like a minute and a half? Really? Are you absolutely sure this isn't the kind of thing you remove in editing? Positive?

[raocow]

Not too sure how I missed that.

I suppose my so-so interest is seeping into my video reviewing.

Actually, I think I know what the problem is (after reflecting on my post a minute or so) - I still don't understand what super metroid is 'about', so I find it hard to filter what is part of the 'experience' or not. You know?

Regardless, I don't think I like most of my legacy videos, but some people do, so I'm continuing them, but I'm not blaming anyone for not watching them.

ninja edit - I think I know why I have that trouble - in Mario, basically any mistake you make you die or you have a clear 'start over' portion (AUS was like this, too), while in Metroid when you make a mistake more often then not... nothing happens. I'm so used to using deathes as editing 'markers' that it's probably why I'm missing those points in the metroid videos. Dang.

:/

[flameofdoubt]

That likely is what the problem is. As a metroid fan i would say that metroid is about the experience and exploration, rather than the challenge or action. Sure metroid has huge powerful bosses, but if you do a bit of exploring you're usually so powerful that nothing but falling into lava pre-gravity suit, or zebetite hall, will cause you any trouble.

I could go off on this big rambley dissertation on metroid being about the isolation and the ambience and so on but i'm trying not to; Mario sets you immediate challenges and the odd drawn out puzzle, where precise jumping, knowledge of mechanics, and practise are needed. Metroid on the other hand is all about preparation. If you can't do something in mario you have to bonk your head against it untill it clicks and you can do what the designer was asking of you. If you can't do something in metroid it's because you don't have the right item yet. In the original super metroid, just to finish the game you never ever needed to walljump or shinespark. In this respect metroid games are actually really really easy, because you become extremely overpowered and the actual games never really ask too much of you. In the challenging hacks you're used to, panic and frenzy abound, with intense and immediate difficulty. So yes, that's probably where the friction is.

[HarmfulGravemind]

I like your LP of Metroid more then the your current Mario one. Don't know, it entertains me more. And I am a huge Mario Fan and not a Metroid Fan at all.

[Ryan Cordell]

I understand - I disliked Super Metroid due to it's sheer non linearity before. That's why I so liked Metroid Fusion (an official game) before. It's far less linear and you actually know where you have to go, but for a part you're left to figure out what to do yourself. Somewhere along the line I got addicted to SM, not too sure how.

But yeah, from what I see, Super Metroid and it's rom hacks are essentially about patience, exploration, trial and error. If you goof up somewhere, you'll sure have to backtrack (and search the entire place pixel by pixel, until you find out there's like one block that you forgot to bomb - I'm LOOKING AT YOU, LEGACY - and then you just slap your forehead). Don't think of the Metroid games as having a said goal, really. Just think like you're trying to beat the bosses (beating the areas first hand though, said areas are harder than the bosses themselves. Right, Legacy?), get to the end, beat the final boss (yes, there is one. You'll find one special area that has four statues representing the four main bosses in the game) while getting as many items as you can.

I like your LP of Metroid too, I can't wait for the next installment (although I know it'll be short, the Mario videos feel more fulfilling, since you know you've made clear to honest progress.), but really, what you want to do with it (the LP) is not something we ought to have control over.
Though if you want, you *could* forcibly kill yourself if you think you're stuck or something.. I'm not sure what that would entail, however.

Still.. Probably easier than Commander Keen 1 - 3, right? ;)

[Madacaek]

This LP would have been far better had it just been the original Super Metroid. It's more intuitive and has better level design. It's overdone, but does anyone honestly care?

I don't remember if you've played Zero Mission; have you considered doing that as your next not-a-mario-hack LP as kind of an experiment to see if a more straightforward, hand-holdy but still exploration-based metroid would work out better? I, for one, think it would.

[BlackDS]

4:52
OH NO TRUCK! *cut*
you are amazing

[dk382]

Wall jumping is weird. Some people just can't grasp the concept and never get good at it, while other people like me was able to do infinite single-wall wall jumping a half hour into their first experience with the game. No offense, but I can't even comprehend why some people have problems with it, but it's just a difficult skill for some to master. Maybe it requires a certain mindset or something, I dunno.

For that narrow tunnel specifically, there was one just like it in Super Metroid. It may have been one of the trickier secrets to gain access to. The 'easiest' way to do it for me was to jump down below it, do a wall jump, and then mid-air morph off that wall jump. It sounds tougher than it is, really. I have no idea what the hell is up with the egg, though.

Also it's kind of a downer watching these videos sometimes. Hopefully some day things will just click and you'll "get" super metroid. Not talking about the techniques, but the overall experience.

[FPzero]

I think the biggest issue regarding interest is that you went into the game expecting it to be somewhat similarly structured to Mario instead of prepping yourself for an entirely different experience. After so many years of Mario hacks this mentality is sort of unavoidable I guess. But really, you just have to think about it differently and take a different approach. It's not a game about jumping collecting and restarting if you get hit.

I'm sorry that it's turning out to be sort of boring for you. I really thought you might enjoy it after AUS.

[raocow]

Ehhh, it's fine. There's only one way to learn about these things, after all!

[FPzero]

Tell you what, I'll be sure to make my hack so that it's not boring like Legacy so when you get to play it you'll be interested as you go.

(Yeah I know you probably won't play it. I first have to FINISH the damn thing regardless)

[Shadow_Aura_Knight]

Not too sure how I missed that.

I suppose my so-so interest is seeping into my video reviewing.

Actually, I think I know what the problem is (after reflecting on my post a minute or so) - I still don't understand what super metroid is 'about', so I find it hard to filter what is part of the 'experience' or not. You know?

Regardless, I don't think I like most of my legacy videos,

Yo Rao, I'ma goin' to let you finish, but Legacy is the best 'not-a-mario-game' thing you've done of all time.

For those of you who do not speak Kayne: I like the Legacy videos. I never have anything to say because I normally dislike Metroid games, and as such, don't know how to play one to offer advice.

In other news: I have absolutely nothing to say, and felt like making this post for the heck of it.

[Time Traveler]

Yo Rao, I'ma goin' to let you finish, but Legacy is the best 'not-a-mario-game' thing you've done of all time.

An Untitled Story

[Shadow_Aura_Knight]

Yo Rao, I'ma goin' to let you finish, but Legacy is the best 'not-a-mario-game' thing you've done of all time.

An Untitled Story

I never actually finished watching it. And before you tell me to, I still have to beat the game. I'm stuck on the final boss, during the countdown, and I'm going to guess raocow was too.
Plus, I was joking. i like Legacy, but what I watched of AUS was amazing. Sheesh, it's like you need a tag or something for when you're joking.

[Time Traveler]

Yo Rao, I'ma goin' to let you finish, but Legacy is the best 'not-a-mario-game' thing you've done of all time.

An Untitled Story

I never actually finished watching it. And before you tell me to, I still have to beat the game. I'm stuck on the final boss, during the countdown, and I'm going to guess raocow was too.
Plus, I was joking. i like Legacy, but what I watched of AUS was amazing. Sheesh, it's like you need a tag or something for when you're joking.

I thought you were serious about Legacy being the best non-Mario thing that raocow has done, but were joking in the presentation of this information. Shows what I know.

[Shadow_Aura_Knight]

An Untitled Story

I never actually finished watching it. And before you tell me to, I still have to beat the game. I'm stuck on the final boss, during the countdown, and I'm going to guess raocow was too.
Plus, I was joking. i like Legacy, but what I watched of AUS was amazing. Sheesh, it's like you need a tag or something for when you're joking.

I thought you were serious about Legacy being the best non-Mario thing that raocow has done, but were joking in the presentation of this information. Shows what I know.

Definitely need a tag for sarcasm/joking. AUS was fun and exciting (as far as I was able to tell, and am able to tell), while this is just fun to watch raocow screw up and around as he bumbles through a game he has not played before and has no real prior knowledge, and has way too many mechanics. AUS had these problems (save too many game mechanics), but presented it in such a way that it was fun to watch someone play, and/or play yourself.

[urdailywater]

To be honest I like this ROMhack so far. And the LP is great to me, but I guess one reason it started out so slow was because you didn't know much about it at first, and I guess you still don't know everything considering you finding it difficult to wall jump (I can relate.. I had to watch a step-by-step tutorial..). I think there was a youtuber who posted how to get past that egg thing too -- like wall-jumping with the midgets or something.

Things like that though.. sort of make it a little more awkward for more experienced players I guess though.

I digress. Just have fun with the hack raocow. I should really start playing this game myself. Your LP is kind of struck my curiosity to Super Metroid ROMHacks.

By the way, curious when you play Legacy... do you do it before your morning shower or before lunch? The commentary just seems a little more.. alive in Legacy so it seems like it's the afternoon.

[Oracle of Wuffing]

Despite how "meh" raocow feels about Legacy and not being a super awesome pro Metroider, there's pretty consistently one really major jab of commentary per video that just keeps me interested in this series. Like Metroid being about a guy who falls into another world and becomes a girl, the similarities between Metroid and Mega Man X, and most recently, Truck, which is apparently the new 925.

[Carver]

This LP would have been far better had it just been the original Super Metroid. It's more intuitive and has better level design.

Yeah I'm rather disappointed in the hack itself - was really hoping it was something a bit more than "hey here's the metroid stuff thrown around without any interesting spots or design"

[FPzero]

This LP would have been far better had it just been the original Super Metroid. It's more intuitive and has better level design.

Yeah I'm rather disappointed in the hack itself - was really hoping it was something a bit more than "hey here's the metroid stuff thrown around without any interesting spots or design"

Again, a prime reason for this is that it was one of the first hacks made with SMILE, back when the editor was still quite primitive. There wasn't much that one could do with a hack at that point.

[Luz-chan]

Actually, I think I know what the problem is (after reflecting on my post a minute or so) - I still don't understand what super metroid is 'about', so I find it hard to filter what is part of the 'experience' or not. You know?

Super Metroid is a simple, side scrolling adventure game, based around the sci-fi universe of Metroid. Really, it was Nintendo pulling one of those things they do best, remaking old games! Personally I find the whole universe interesting, and, having only played Fusion, Zero Mission and the Prime Trilogy, I don't really play for the adventure, more so the story, as cheesy as it may be. Honestly, I haven't been "playing" while Tito (my brother) makes his LP's, but I have been watching, silently, and diligently! If you ARE interested, I could TRY to explain the story to you, if you wanna learn about Metroid, raocow! I love discussing it, and hey, maybe it'll revive your interest in the LP?

Regardless, I don't think I like most of my legacy videos, but some people do, so I'm continuing them, but I'm not blaming anyone for not watching them.

Heh, I don't think anyone is NOT watching them. judging by the views on both SCW and SML, it seems that just as many people as watching both, mostly because they just love you, raocow...in a totally platonic way...I hope. ._.

ninja edit - I think I know why I have that trouble - in Mario, basically any mistake you make you die or you have a clear 'start over' portion (AUS was like this, too), while in Metroid when you make a mistake more often then not... nothing happens. I'm so used to using deathes as editing 'markers' that it's probably why I'm missing those points in the metroid videos. Dang.

:/

Trust me, Metroid isn't the type of game that you can really use those kinds of markers for. In watching, and editing Tito's (my brother's) videos, I have noticed, that the best strategy is to just record as much as possible, and just cut out big segments of running around. Take, for instance, when Tito first got to Norfair (which hasn't been posted yet), he pretty much explored the place and then there wasn't anything to do. Next he back tracked a little, which I edited out, till he found something, then he got an upgrade, and then it cuts off to him discovering something, and that's about it. (sorry, trying not to recite, WORD FOR WORD, what happens). It takes some getting used to, but maybe, as some have said before, you should try playing an "easier to understand" Metroid game, before jumping in, head first, mid way through the series. Zero mission is a good place to start. In fact, after getting the hang of it, beating it in less than 2 hours is pretty easy, as well as getting 100%. Still haven't done both at the same time, but oh well.

Hope I've helped explain some things to you, raocow! And can't wait for more videos! I just love watching you and my brother play, you guys say the funniest things! xD!