SDM2: There may or may not be touhou involved

[morsel/morceau]

Don't care what anyone says, the NES graphics are great. Far more appealing than the ubiquitous All-Stars versions.

[sasukebowser]

I am a third person who is curious!!!

It was already answered.

Also, thanks for the explanation, James!

[rubberfishy]

Don't care what anyone says, the NES graphics are great. Far more appealing than the ubiquitous All-Stars versions.

I've been really enjoying the NES graphic too but have been too scared to mention as everyone else is dissing the hell out of them.

This game is scarlet devil mario 2 after all. not just touhou but touhou + mario, and what's more mario than mario 1?

but I know a lot of the users on this forum are smw hackers so the mario 1 graphics don't impress them because of the ease it takes to implement and the number of times they've seen mario 1 graphics in a smw hack before.
but whatever. I like mario 1 graphics and it's much better than over using vanilla smw graphics in my opinion. I've seen way to much vanilla smw in my lifetime and I haven't even ever played smw. I think I may have even ruined that game for myself from watching raocow's videos. oh well!

[Dollop of Mayo]

Dunno why people are comparing this to SMWCP other than it was the last hack played.

The good levels of SMWCP are way better than the good levels of this hack so far but this hack has a consistency of quality that SMWCP lacked and at least so far there haven't been any horribly atrocious super long levels of boring awfulness.

[megamario]

okay, these levels actually looked pretty good. this hack looks definitely better than smwcp

"Recycled" levels with tacked on gimmicks, gimmick levels akin to someone trying to cram every single idea they have into a hack, bad palettes, and so-so music/GFX quality?

Did I forget to mention that this is basically Touhou in name only?

Someone sounds mad~

[ZaCloud]

okay, these levels actually looked pretty good. this hack looks definitely better than smwcp

"Recycled" levels with tacked on gimmicks, gimmick levels akin to someone trying to cram every single idea they have into a hack, bad palettes, and so-so music/GFX quality?

Did I forget to mention that this is basically Touhou in name only?

None of those factors stand in the way when it's still more fun to play or watch. I mean, its badness is so in-your-face that it seems more honest, instead of trying to hide behind a polished exterior. Makes you take it less seriously, thus it's more pleasantly surprising when it has gameplay that just consistently works.

You could somehow compare it to a corny '90s movie vs a modern movie with better special effects, big-name actors, and a famous director. Sure, the newer movie has a lot of technical goodies and a lot of high points, trying to learn from movies past to perfect certain cinematic techniques, but in this case it also had a lot of controversial or dragged-out scenes that make it a chore to watch. While the corny '90s movie is so full of neon colors and face-palmingly bad puns, yet is an energetic romp that many viewers end up looking back on fondly for its narm-charm.

If it's somehow still more fun past all that, then it's just more fun, and people will like that. (And I don't notice anything wrong with the music, but that's probably cuz I only know of the Touhous but can't be called a fan yet, so it works for me.)

[Chompie]

I like the Super Mario Bros. castle graphics, but I'm not a huge fan of its cave, water, or plains tilesets.

Though honestly I'm far more sick of seeing SMB3 graphics. Also the SMW generic bushes/trees background. Though those don't really have anything to do with anything right now.

[megamario]

I will continue to maintain that the bosses in this hack are better than any in SMWCP or ASMT or that MGU

Also I like the SMB1 graphics. It's SMB3 we see a lot of (or its upports).
I wish SMB2/USA got more love, though.

[MrDeePay]

Someone sounds mad~

None of those factors stand in the way when it's still more fun to play or watch. I mean, its badness is so in-your-face that it seems more honest, instead of trying to hide behind a polished exterior. Makes you take it less seriously, thus it's more pleasantly surprising when it has gameplay that just consistently works.

More to do with people having such screwy standards with romhacks and me getting beyond tired of raocow's fans whining about this and that, adopting almost any of his opinions as their own, using misbalanced standpoints, or blowing a number of flaws in Production out of proportion, then proceed to praise something that gives off a bad impression much quicker and takes even longer to "improve".

Nobody is trying to dispute any of the ever present issues or complaints in this hack (but I wouldn't be surprised if they try to complain about other hacks if they have any similar problems) such as the general presentation being crap or how little this has to do with the SDM outside of being bosses and the occasional in-joke. Going "at least it's this and that" as if that's good enough.

That's fine and dandy, though. As I said, if the hack creator's not gonna give that much of a damn about his overall work, why should I?

(And I don't notice anything wrong with the music, but that's probably cuz I only know of the Touhous but can't be called a fan yet, so it works for me.)

Off the top of my head, they sound partially empty, instrument choice is iffy, instruments in general aren't used to their full potential (which is even more important if you're porting a Touhou song, but they're notorious for being fairly difficult to port).

[Argumentable]

As I said, if the hack creator's not gonna give that much of a damn about his overall work, why should I?

That's the spirit. Don't give a shit about it, just sit back and enjoy!

[raocow]

Yeah, guy, you're... you're taking this pretty seriously for a hack you say you won't take seriously.

I'm pretty sure we're all a lot more leniant about it BECAUSE we... we don't take it seriously at all, and just enjoy the ride. The 90's movie schlockfest analogy above is, like, absolutely perfect.

[Yonowaaru]

It's not a bad game, though.. It's just random in the wrong way.. It's just that, if you put too much of the same kind of random in the same game, it doesn't work. QED, the SMB1 levels.

In other news, I LOVE and I mean freaking LOVE tomorrow's port of Septette for the Dead Princess.
It makes me happy to watch this game again.

[McGack]

so is Sakuya hurling bullets disguised as knives or what?, and if so how does one clean a room with bulletknives?

[megamario]

so is Sakuya hurling bullets disguised as knives or what?, and if so how does one clean a room with bulletknives?

Stab the dirt away

[Dollop of Mayo]

More to do with people having such screwy standards with romhacks and me getting beyond tired of raocow's fans whining about this and that, adopting almost any of his opinions as their own, using misbalanced standpoints, or blowing a number of flaws in Production out of proportion, then proceed to praise something that gives off a bad impression much quicker and takes even longer to "improve".

I'm getting pretty tired of you whining that everybody who had anything bad to say about your precious hack is just mindlessly parroting raocow and couldn't possibly have valid opinions of their own.

MAYBE because everybody is saying the same damn things about SMWCP it's because those things are TRUE? NOPE WE'RE ALL SHEEP BAAAAAA

There was lots of good stuff in SMWCP and lots of bad stuff. Just take the criticism with a grain of salt, learn from your mistakes, make the good stuff better, and SMWCP2 will be super awesome.

[MrDeePay]

I'm getting pretty tired of you whining that everybody who had anything bad to say about your precious hack is just mindlessly parroting raocow and couldn't possibly have valid opinions of their own.

I have (heavily) criticized numerous aspects of SMWCP myself (including my own efforts) to the point to where I almost proposed that the worst of the worst offenders of that hack's lowest efforts be flat-out denied a level for SMWCP2 as to prevent them from making the same mistakes again. The thing here is that the people I'm talking about are the ones that overgeneralize way too much (ie: "And they said ASMT was too hard!?" "This is the highest rated!?", blah blah) or take an otherwise valid flaw and exaggerate it to huge levels and what have you.

And while there are obviously exceptions, there are a good number of Rao's fans that do adopt his opinions as their own and/or go by just what they hear or see in his videos.

As far as SDM2 goes, I do not think that it's overall a bad hack from what I'm seeing so far, but it leaves a horrible first impression. It may dramatically pick up (and I hope it does), so time will tell on that matter.

so is Sakuya hurling bullets disguised as knives or what?,

They're most likely a disassembley of Bullet Bills. After a while, you can pick up on it what some reskinned enemies are from their movements or like the disembodied Chuck head from before, whether their GFX spaz this way or that way.

It seemed pointless to leave them as stompable, though.

[Test Pilot Monkey]

The infinite lives are boggling me. I'm all for getting rid of lives in a modern hard SMW hack but why even have them if you're going to give an infinite lives powerup 3 worlds in?

Well you don't have to take the tank if you don't want to.

And it's been a while since you last got 99 lives in a Mario hack, raocow.

[Ometeotl]

The infinite lives are boggling me. I'm all for getting rid of lives in a modern hard SMW hack but why even have them if you're going to give an infinite lives powerup 3 worlds in?

Well you don't have to take the tank if you don't want to.

And it's been a while since you last got 99 lives in a Mario hack, raocow.

Uh, a week is a long time?

[S.N.N.]

I find the tank pretty stupid too. Just disable lives completely if you're going to do something like that (plus all of those 10-ups earlier on).

In related news, I liked the switch palace, but not the SMB castle rehash. I'm not sure what people find appealing about these remakes, honestly, but to each their own. The guy obviously has potential to make his own interesting levels, so I don't know why he doesn't do it more often.

[Dollop of Mayo]

I have (heavily) criticized numerous aspects of SMWCP myself (including my own efforts) to the point to where I almost proposed that the worst of the worst offenders of that hack's lowest efforts be flat-out denied a level for SMWCP2 as to prevent them from making the same mistakes again. The thing here is that the people I'm talking about are the ones that overgeneralize way too much (ie: "And they said ASMT was too hard!?" "This is the highest rated!?", blah blah) or take an otherwise valid flaw and exaggerate it to huge levels and what have you.

And while there are obviously exceptions, there are a good number of Rao's fans that do adopt his opinions as their own and/or go by just what they hear or see in his videos.

As far as SDM2 goes, I do not think that it's overall a bad hack from what I'm seeing so far, but it leaves a horrible first impression. It may dramatically pick up (and I hope it does), so time will tell on that matter.

What you're really complaining about are the people in the YT comments then. People in the threads on this forum have been mostly constructive. I don't really get the point of complaining about people on YT in the Talkhaus but whatever.

[Cup]

S.N.N., if it adds any perspective, Puya does mention a possible explanation to all the megaman, DKC, Mario 1, SMW2, etc references he makes. At the very end of the game, he goes on to explain something along the lines of, "modern gaming is great, but technology moves forward so fast we're likely to forget the joys of the past/etc, etc/paraphrase, paraphrase."

Well here, let me get my actual translation...

In modern times, everything changes so rapidly.
New technologies are great and all that,
but you can't forget the good things from the past.
I hope playing this hack helped you come to understand that.

I mean, it sounds preachy as all hell, but I think part of that is my translation. In the actual Japanese, it comes off as much more earnest. But yeah, for better or for worse, those reference are in there for a reason, and that reason is that Puya really likes those games and wants us to share his enjoyment and nostalgia. So he adds in some of that 'new' he was talking about to the old (normally in the form of pretty substantial asm gimmicks), and makes a level.

Which he is certainly entitled to do. I see two approaches to making games, you either try to appeal to as many people as possible (commercial games), or you make a game you like and hope others will too. Since this is a case of the latter, you either like the references or you don't. In my personal taste, I think he makes pretty interesting gimmicks out of the references which turn into pretty fun levels. So I think he accomplishes his goal. That doesn't mean you should like it though. Thinking that stuff is too cliché or old hat is a perfectly valid opinion. Just wanted to clear up where Puya seems to be coming from.

Those games ARE obviously really popular among hackers though, so they do feel a bit overdone, but as I said, I just kind of grunted and played along until I realized that Puya pulled the references off much better than most.

Hm, I really only meant to post that first paragraph, just to give some context to the Mario 1 stuff today... oh well, rambling works too.

[ZaCloud]

Useful stuff

Wow, thanks for that. That clears a lot up already (even though I was willing to overlook the rehashment anyway). To me, it didn't even need a reason, but knowing it has one is all the better. :3

(And @ everyone still misspelling "PYUA")

[Cup]

Haha, in my defense, raocow is the only one who ever says it out loud, so his pronunciation is what sticks! Thank you though. That's an embarrassing slip up!

*Had to double check, I spelled it right in the translation at least. Phew.

[Test Pilot Monkey]

And it's been a while since you last got 99 lives in a Mario hack, raocow.

Uh, a week is a long time?

Hmm, guess I forgot.

I would change it to add "legitimately", but then using save-states really can't be considered legitimate.

So I suppose this is a rare occurance of raocow actually gaining 99 lives legitimately.

[S.N.N.]

They don't bug me THAT much, it's just like .. the guy has potential to do so much more, so why waste it on something that has been done six hundred times (that is, remakes). I mean, I get his purpose, and I have from the beginning, but .. eh.

As for today's level .. the first half felt like a generic sprite spam to the point of slowdown, though the second half was a bit better. That boss though .. ugh.