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Kirby's Return to Dreamland + Dream Collection challenge stages - sayonara, Samurai Kirby

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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - always causes paralyzis so long as it hits (good luck with that)

Post by KobaBeach »

Mandew wrote: 1 year ago in terms of game appearances, leaf, whip and water all have their debut here!!!
I thought Arrow was gonna be that little bow boy's copy ability but

I guess that took until like Triple Deluxe or Robobot

. (spoilers for a later game,

if 3DS emulators ever agree with rao's new computer

)
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - always causes paralyzis so long as it hits (good luck with that)

Post by Grounder »

it can't even handle wii games without constant microstutter
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - always causes paralyzis so long as it hits (good luck with that)

Post by KobaBeach »

true i just didn't know if that was an issue with dolphin's current emulation of rtdl or if his computer is just super busy when he records rtdl. i've been watching dk64 to keep myself active as i play video games and whatnot and i think he had similar stutter issues at random times there on his old pc? i liked the persona 4 joke with the toy block in frantic factory or whatever that place with mad jack is called
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - always causes paralyzis so long as it hits (good luck with that)

Post by raocow »

Grounder wrote: 1 year ago it can't even handle wii games without constant microstutter
so here's the thing
I don't get them while playing. That's strictly on the recording side, and I just can't figure out how to not make that happen at all. It's a bit frustrating gonna be honest!
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - hurts a lot when it misses

Post by raocow »

Like I cannot reiterate this enough
on my side the game plays super smoothly. OBS indicates no frame loss during the session. So like, what is happening, what causes this. I would like to know!
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - hurts a lot when it misses

Post by KobaBeach »

maybe it's haunted. Sheath Drowned
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - hurts a lot when it misses

Post by Grounder »

mr. dooter is the boss name of all time
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - vines are used in the performing of this attack

Post by CleanBittyDrawn »

So Ninja Dojo doesn't require complex motions. It might take a bit to figure out how to get it working, but it's basically a one-button game, only this time, the button is swinging. Your current set-up may be enough. Then again, maybe you need to set up something (much?) more complex to emulate a generic swing. The other mini-game only requires Star Bit controls and buttons, I believe.

As for the Whip Challenge, there's a bunch of things hidden in walls. You really need to fly around to find all the coins. You were secretly missing a bunch, but you had no way of knowing. You did it in less tries than with Sword. (2 or 3 less. I got 3, but I may have missed one.) The game never tells you about platinum medals, but yeah, fair enough. I realized later that was probably low-balling it a lot.

And no, Mr. Dooter didn't have anything else to show. It just feels like he does.
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - vines are used in the performing of this attack

Post by raocow »

so the thing with the wii and the controls is that I'd be able to do it if I was set up for, say, Galaxy, right? but to play poyo right now I'm in a completely different profile where the controller is set up to the side. Would I be able to set up a mechanic where I could switch profiles on the fly? Honestly probably. But I just wonder if the possible complications are worth it.
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - vines are used in the performing of this attack

Post by CleanBittyDrawn »

Yeah, the minigames aren't really worth it if it's much trouble. Neither are particularly novel, and are partially made by their aesthetic. Ninja Dojo is just multiple rounds of hit the bullseye doing wacky things (most rounds not actually doing wacky things), while the other takes too long going solo to not get a bit tedious, because you're just

shooting a chunky robot

.
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - vines are used in the performing of this attack

Post by Grounder »

oceans are like onions

they have layers
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - damage doubles with each successive strikes

Post by CleanBittyDrawn »

descriptioncow wrote:there sure are a lot of powers which are less 'power' and more 'kirby is actively using a weapon'
Kirby's Adventure: 6/23 = 0.26
Kirby Super Star: 7/24 = 0.29
Kirby & the Amazing Mirror: 7/26 = 0.27
Kirby: Squeak Squad 6/25 = 0.24
Kirby's Return to Dream Land of the ones you've gotten, would get you 5/16 = 0.31

So if your basis is Super Star, which your playstyle of, don't drop powers on purpose until you need to suggests (rather than, "Inhale almost every new power I see" like Adventure), then not by much. Perfectly so if you disagree with me including Cutter. (But getting rid of Sleep as an ability would hurt it.) But your memory of things (like forgetting moves existed, and how you "should" have solved that one Raisin Ruins puzzle in Stage 4) seems to suggest more of an Adventure (and maybe the three Dream Lands) memory, and your Super Star playthrough suggested that to me as well. So in that case, yes.

That being said, this game is high in the number you can actually use in water, which I think was an attempt to make water gameplay more interesting. This game added a lot more (you've encountered 5, compared to 3 in Adventure and Super Star). Open carry has also been more common than concealed. (e.g. Spear vs. Cutter) That's largely a graphics thing, though.

Also, it's worth noting that all of the abilities that have a weapon have weird abilities like Spear Copter, Whip Tornado, and Sword Beam. If anything, the newer abilities have more of that weirdness.

And for the curious, here's the list of abilities in each of the games, including future ones and this one, as well as their total (with the awkward Dream Land games and one or two future games to boot):
  • Adventure (Cutter, Hammer, Laser, Mike, Parasol, Sword; but argument for Throw, Backdrop, counting Star Rod)
  • Dream Land 2's basic abilities (Cutter, Parasol) were 2/7 = 0.28, but ability partner + ability drops it to (Parasol + Kine) 3/28 =
  • Super Star (Bomb, Cutter, Hammer, Mike, Parasol, Sword, Yo-Yo)
  • Dream Land 3's basic abilities (Cleaning, Cutter, Parasol) 3/8 = 0.38, but with partner abilities (Cleaning + Coo/Rick, Parasol + Kine/Nago), it drops to 7/56 = 1/8 = 0.12.
  • Crystal Shards basic abilities (Bomb) were technically 1/7 = 0.14, but only because Cutter was Kirby throwing his body. Combos (Bomb + Bomb, Bomb + Cutter, Bomb + Stone, Burn + Cutter, Cutter + Ice, Cutter + Spark, Needle + Stone) boosted it to 8/35 = 0.23.
  • Amazing Mirror (Bomb, Cutter, Hammer, Laser, Master, Parasol, Sword)
  • Squeak Squad (Bomb, Cutter, Hammer, Laser, Parasol, Sword)
  • Return to Dream Land (Bomb, Hammer, Mike, Parasol, Spear, Sword, Whip) 7/23 = 0.30
  • Triple Deluxe (Archer, Bell, Bomb, Cutter, Hammer, Mike, Parasol, Spear, Sword, Whip) 10/25 = 0.4
  • Planet Robobot (Archer, Bomb, Cutter, Hammer, Mike, Parasol, Sword, Whip) 8/27 = 0.30, but with Robobot Armor's tricky to count set (Beam, Bomb, Cutter, Fire, Spark, Sword) 6/13 adds up to 14/40 = 0.35 exactly.
  • Star Allies (Staff, Bomb, Cutter, Hammer, Mike, Parasol, Sword, Whip, Yo-Yo) 9/28 = 0.32
  • Forgotten Land (Bomb, Cutter, Hammer, Ranger, Sword) 5/12 = 0.42, and counting mouthful mode would be a bit awkward.
I can see arguments in favor of excluding Bell, Cutter, Laser, Master and Mike. I can also see arguments for including Backdrop, Beam (at least in games without elaborate movesets), Bubble, Burn + Needle, Cook, Drill, Fighter, Ice + Bomb, Ninja (more so before RtDL), Spark + Kine (Dream Land 3), Spark + Stone, Suplex, many combo/partner abilities, as well as final abilities (not counting Master which is often important later, though I didn't count Triple Star which is less important, but not by a huge amount).
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - become unvulnerable on the first turn, strike on second

Post by CleanBittyDrawn »

What is wrong with me? raocow can figure it out for himself, and if he can't, it's Kirby.
This game did a weird thing that past games haven't done, which is have a surface state (Kirby in a tube). This is relevant for a few things, including having it stop a low momentum attempt at getting out of the water, as well as enable an attack and change a few others. That wind corridor was weird because you weren't getting back on the surface once you landed. (It's still a bit off otherwise, but that increases the lag more than usual.)

Also, I think you misunderstood the purpose of charging your jump. It just makes you do more damage and over a wider area. (I recall reading that it actually slightly hurts your top height, but don't quote me on that.) That's bad design, because they clearly make it look like it's supposed to be a big boost, but oddly it isn't. You did take less tries (5 by my count, counting retries), but I think a lot of it was just that you didn't feel lost at all, unlike the first two.
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - makes the user faint

Post by Mandew »

never been much a fan of bomb's new hat but it is undeniably more thematically appropriate and distinctive than a poppy bros hat
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - makes the user faint

Post by Grounder »

💣Don't cry, now!💣
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - summon a snowman to attack all enemies. Attack Power: 4

Post by Bean »

This game's so good. Kicked off the modern run of Kirby that's been going really strong for the last decade plus now.
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - warps you to the cave entrance

Post by CleanBittyDrawn »

Firstly, don't forget to check the boss lore for the boss fight that's (presumably) next video!

Secondly, you seem to be under the impression that you have to have super abilities in the room where you use them. They are totally optional. Sure, not for 100%, but you have to have a way through if you don't get it, lose it via time up or discard, or in a case like today, die with it. (Assuming you don't respawn in super bonkers' room.) There's always a path without it. Also, in multiplayer, super abilities are really annoying, so I understand people skipping them and coming back later in single player, if at all.

This is also true with other abilities, but they don't so heavily centralize the level around themselves as often. Usually if they do, it's one like Hi Jump or Parasol, for obvious reasons, though as you demonstrated today, those two kinda do the same thing, but Parasol is for the water while Hi Jump is for going fast.

Oh, in case you're curious, since this version doesn't give the names of pieces, the music tracks first heard in this world are:
-Nutty Noon (all the world map pieces are just the world names except the first, which is "Four Adventurers: Cookie Country")
-Sky Waltz
-Sky Tower (which you heard in SSB, and was apparently originally the light version of a song in light/dark world level in the gcn game)
-Dreaming of Clouds (which you also heard in SSB)
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - warps you to the cave entrance

Post by KobaBeach »

"there's nothing kirby cannot fight" crying tears of joy here
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - makes your fighter super heavy and more difficult to launch for a certain amount of ti

Post by Grounder »

kirby and the industrial sector
I feel like that's a pretty rare combo? in my personal experience anyways maybe it becomes more of a thing
they could make an entire game about that
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - makes your fighter super heavy and more difficult to launch for a certain amount of ti

Post by KobaBeach »

fart buttoned

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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - makes your fighter super heavy and more difficult to launch for a certain amount of ti

Post by KobaBeach »

"here's mr candy cane" moundo is not a candy corn racowo that is a fuckign bamboo shoot
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - makes your fighter super heavy and more difficult to launch for a certain amount of ti

Post by xnamkcor »

Watching this again made me realise it might have been better for pacing to have two sets of abilities, and not have the second set available until the dark world.

PS: Someone buy raocow a Wii remote.
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - makes your fighter super heavy and more difficult to launch for a certain amount of ti

Post by raocow »

I have three wiimotes. My computer, unlike my last computer, will not talk with them.
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - gives you a really cool cape, allows you to fly and even spin around rapidly

Post by CleanBittyDrawn »

Well clearly you need four wiimotes so you can not do four-person multiplayer with poyo, King Deedee, dark poyo who reads one book, and goomba who mixed up his pirate and savage cosplays.

The music was called Techno Factory. Well, the other music is Underworld, but I think you cared about Techno Factory. You turned down Leaf a bunch of times, but it wasn't obvious, because the enemy wasn't familiar (or you just had an ability before that).
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Re: Kirby's Return to Dreamland - gives you a really cool cape, allows you to fly and even spin around rapidly

Post by KobaBeach »

can we gift roncos a fourth wiimonte for chrimsby advent
CleanBittyDrawn wrote: 1 year ago and goomba who mixed up his pirate and savage cosplays.
no shyguys are the racist ones not goombas, haven't you played yoshi's island???????????
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