Guacamelee! 2 - lucha de apuestas: MÁSCARA CONTRA MÁSCARA

[thatguyif]

Maybe raocow was moving around the map too much, but it took me a while to figure out what was missing. Still, item hunting can be a bit much when the item location is

hidden behind not colored blocks, but uncovered areas of the map, because those aren't particularly obvious

[thatguyif]

I will simply say getting the "regular" ending isn't really worth much of the effort, honestly. Even from a narrative standpoint, it's not that interesting, at least in comparison to the original game.

[Dragon Fogel]

It's worth noting that the door is something of a "final challenge", and has a reward that's somewhat overpowered, so you might want to get through the Snake Temple before doing it.

[raocow]

oh see that's interesting to know. is the warp head like some ways inside the snake temple?

[11clock]

oh see that's interesting to know. is the warp head like some ways inside the snake temple?

It's about halfway up, but you unlock shortcuts that make the route from the warp head to the final boss just a short climb.

Regarding the triple jaguar boss fight... imagine doing that but they all deal twice as much damage, and use both chicken shields and triple hit shields. That's how the hard mode version goes. My hands still hurt from doing that yesterday.

My biggest critique with Guacamelee 2 (and Guacamelee 1) is that the combat is way too easy, especially when compared to the platforming sections. Hard mode fixes that gap in difficulty quite well, and I consider it the best way to play both games.

You normally have to unlock hard mode by beating the game, but you can also input the Konami Code in the main menu to unlock it early. This works in the original game, too.

[Dragon Fogel]

I vaguely remember that for hard mode, I figured out when I could safely recover in that fight, but I don't remember a lot of the details. I think it was nearly impossible to find opportunities when all three of them were out, but with two it was somewhat manageable? So I think I just focused on getting the lowest-health one down once the fight got to that point.

[Dragon Fogel]

The reason you couldn't frog-slam was that you hadn't touched the ground since doing the previous frog-slam. All the moves work that way, it's just that most of the time you wind up on the ground after frog-slamming so it's only an issue in a platforming segment like this.

[thatguyif]

Yeah. That "tonk" like sound is basically "you used up that Special Move already, hit the ground or use another." It's not typically relevant except for situations like this or Pollo Shot/Beast Cannon(?) uses.

My biggest critique with Guacamelee 2 (and Guacamelee 1) is that the combat is way too easy, especially when compared to the platforming sections. Hard mode fixes that gap in difficulty quite well, and I consider it the best way to play both games.

I mean...combat's fine. If you're just constantly looking for excessive challenges, sure, Hard Mode's there. But there's a certain catharsis in just having fun.

[Dragon Fogel]

Those fan rooms at the start of the Crucible are the one part of the game I absolutely hated. All the other challenges feel a lot better crafted. Heck, even the death disc room feels significantly better than the first two.

Anyways, I don't know why you didn't open the Pollo Slide block in the prison either, but I noticed at the time. As for how you missed the chest near it, it's simple - you collected it, died, then didn't collect it on your next try.

Edit: In fact you missed several orange blocks? Most of them were just routes back (so if you give up because the rooms are frustrating you, you can skip some of them on a return trip) but there was one right behind the statue at the end.

[thatguyif]

Yeah, that was kind of surprising...but also not? Gets excited, completely misses the sliding block.

Though I forget what was there[/i]

[Dragon Fogel]

I feel like the Giant Exploder challenge kind of expects going for the recharge orbs to be a higher priority than it was for you, which would also somewhat mitigate the issue with remembering which moves are available.

It should also technically be possible to frog slam, but you need to use another move to cancel out of it. Doesn't seem particularly useful other than slightly speeding up your damage rate on the main bomb, though.

[thatguyif]

Per your tags: No raocow, I get it...You saw "Exploders in the Sky" and that gave you ideas

[Grounder]

time to kill and replace, kids

[Dragon Fogel]

Coscorrona's costume would have helped in that last challenge. You'd still have to do some dodging, but if you just hit an enemy you'd be able to throw them, and there were several times where that would have let you get a throw in during the final phase. I don't remember if that's what I did; I just remember the challenges as a whole didn't take me that long.

[Grounder]

And the moral of the story is "Holy Guacamole cures cancer."

Hopefully Juan stays in shape this time...

[thatguyif]

Fun fact: This is not the first time raocow has expressed surprise at Guacamelee's Canadian..ness.


So, about that ending. First, the "regular" ending:


Second, something that doesn't get noted much in the commentary about the game is that there is a subtle meta-commentary going on in both games on one of the most principal elements of lucha libre: La máscara.

In lucha libre, the mask is everything. It defines the tecnicos and the rudos. It is the basis of the luchador more than anything else. There is a reason I used, for this thread's final subtitle, the most important type of match in lucha libre, the lucha de apuestas, or wager match: Juan and Salvador were both fighting, in essence, for the sake of keeping their masks.

At the same time, as I was discussing with a friend who's a big wrestling fan recently, I think Drinkbox see the mask as a double-edged sword: Wearing it, you become larger than life, not just in el cuadrilátero, but beyond. You become something like a superhero (or supervillain, if you're a rudo). But wearing it means you become the mask itself. Who you are as a person underneath no longer exists. That's why a lucha de apuestas match is so significant: When a luchador's mask is on the line, their whole being is on the line as well. They lose the mask, they have to become someone else. To truly become someone else is no small feat, and not something anyone here can understand. But even so, you simply can't go back to being what you were before you took on the mask. That person is already gone.

Some luchadores took this to great extremes. The most significant of these was probably one of the greatest luchadores of all time, El Santo (Rodolfo Guzmán Huerta). He was so committed to being the mask, he never went out in public or even met private company without wearing the mask. The only time he ever took the mask off was to get through customs if he was traveling internationally, and even then, he made arrangements to ensure nobody in his entourage saw him while doing so, to the point of traveling separately. This he committed to, for four decades. Then, in June 1984, at the end of a television interview, he took off his mask willingly for a brief moment. This was his way of saying goodbye. He would die a week later.

And therein lies the rub: Just how much does the mask matter? If it is all that matters, then it can easily destroy you. There's nothing really noble about being the mask your entire life. In the first Guacamelee!, we see the impact in the bad ending, where Juan's life was only as long as he wore the mask, having nothing else to truly live for. He took more value in the mask than in the world around him, especially those he cared about. (People may not remember, but there was a cutscene from Juan's childhood where he is beaten up by bullies while attempting to help Lupita, all the while wearing a makeshift mask that is easily destroyed. That was a big source of his drive throughout the original game.) Only later did he realize how empty it was. In the end, by taking off the mask willingly, he was killing himself. In the good ending, he freed himself from the mask, because he did have something to live for, more than just being a luchador.

Guacamelee! 2 takes this a bit further with Salvador. Salvador thought he could take the mask by virtue of his mastery in lucha libre. But, interestingly, his child-nickname was Chava (which is a common child-nickname for Salvador), which can also translate to "naïve." And it reflects his attitude toward the mask. It's not merely granted to those who are strongest or most skillful, but those who have the will to become the mask. Salvador, due to his ego, lacked that will, but was naïve to think that didn't matter. Thus the mask, after a while, started consuming him. This was different from Juan, who wanted to become the mask, and was only freed when he found something else to live for.

The Holy Hen's observation, "The world looks different in a mask," is poignant here as well. When you become the mask, everything becomes centered on the mask. Thus the world is a different place for you. The things that matter are those that matter to the mask, not to you. Salvador's behavior was centered on the mask and his maintenance of it. Juan, in having a family, was able to find more meaning than that.

That is all for me. I hope you enjoyed this less rambunctious thread!

[BeckySFairley]

I know a lot about the symbolism of the mask from my wrestling watching experience so the fact to return to his normal life to get home is perfect symbolism there. I like the differences between the two ending cutscenes for it. Just like with Outer Wild's before it, I am glad raocow didn't do both.

Edit: I didn't hear about Seavered because it is iOS/switch exclusive but looking at their new game "Nobody saves the world" It looks like a top-down action RPG so don't think it will be raocow style game.