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Outer Wilds - The World • XXI: The Journey is Complete

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Re: Outer Wilds - Cheat the System

Post by thatguyif »

So raocow is correct in the description. He can solve the puzzle. (link does not go to anything related to Outer Wilds) Of course, I'm glad he isn't. If you thought the inhabitants of the origin of the Stranger was wild...the other reels...
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Re: Outer Wilds - Death • XIII: Free from the Past

Post by helucard »

Question for people who know the deal with the beamos alarm:
Is it light based? Were you supposed to reach this by concealing your light?
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Re: Outer Wilds - Death • XIII: Free from the Past

Post by Emral »

helucard wrote: 1 year ago Question for people who know the deal with the beamos alarm:
Is it light based? Were you supposed to reach this by concealing your light?
Exactly. There is a way to turn off the lights in the area around the well to let you pass when concealing.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Death • XIII: Free from the Past

Post by kitikami »

I am genuinely amazed raocow intuited the death trick. His deductions throughout the whole game have been great and it's really enhanced the LP.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Death • XIII: Free from the Past

Post by thatguyif »

So, to answer raocow's question in the description, here is what you do if you want to get to today's goal

while alive

(raocow is welcome to read this after getting to

the third archive

):
So getting to that secret area and extinguishing the area's flames (which requires going by a beamos) triggers an alarm and causes the inhabitants of the area to go on alert. That's what the elevators are for, they're coming down to investigate why the lights went out. The game suddenly changes into hide-and-seek mode. The area becomes filled up with guards. So now you have to find your way back in the dark, while at the same time evading these pursuers. Getting down to the well area isn't particularly hard if you take the time to actually plot your path. There's a straightforward path to the elevator leading to the well that has zero guards, you just have to learn it.

Once you get to the level of the well, you'll find a guard standing at the entrance to the cave tunnel. In order to get into the tunnel, you have to not only get the guard's attention, but then try to evade them. There is a platform near the entrance and around a big tree that can be used for evasion purposes. After getting to the area with the beamos, you have to conceal your flame to get around it. It's worth noting that you can reveal your flame for limited periods of time to get your bearings without triggering the exit. The alarm will only work if it's on for an extended period of time.

When you reach the final area before the elevator leading to the archive, there will be two guards patrolling the pair of bridges leading to the stairs before the elevator. Ideally, you want to bait one of them into breaking their patrol and pursuing you, then you evade and cross the bridge. Go down the stairs with your flame concealed, then take the elevator.

This is much harder than doing this while dead, since in the latter, you never rouse the guards.
Of course, tomorrow will be funny when
he gets caught by the surprise guard.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Death • XIII: Free from the Past

Post by Donut »

As someone experiencing the DLC through this LP for the first time:
I find it pretty funny how the crowd putting forth very unsubtle hints every episode are flipping out at raocow doing things the "non-intended way" and robbing himself of the proper experience, even though the idea that there isn't an intended order to things is part of Outer Wilds' magic. If anything I think it's amazing that the environmental storytelling provides viable clues in of itself, and that someone was able to (apparently?) skip large parts of the game through clever observation and deduction. The developers would probably be thrilled if they knew.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Death • XIII: Free from the Past

Post by kitikami »

That laser grid background was extremely common for school photos or mall portrait studios back in the day and is the kind of thing people look back on and laugh at for how dated it looks now. The hidden portrait is probably just an Easter Egg joke about that.

I don't think i would have discovered the owlnet on my own. I would have been too anxious to try exploring without a reliable light source, and i thought not having the lamp on you might cut off your connection to the homeworld. Even watching raocow do it the first time made me feel a little uneasy.
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Re: Outer Wilds - In the Shadows

Post by helucard »

Oh.
... Oh...

You know, I suppose, since the deer-owl-person was already dead, and continuing to "live" in the void they've been trapped in for millenia would've been prolonging their effective purgatory, the path they took was the only one they had...

... Enjoy your boat ride, friend. May the rivers be calm, and the banks bountiful. 😭
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Re: Outer Wilds - Recesses of Your Own Mind

Post by Draexzhan »

So with the DLC more or less done, I'm going to provide a bit of trivia. Copied and pasted from my Youtube comment.

So in the game files, these beings are referred to as "Ghostbirds". Probably not what they call themselves, but it's as close to an "official" name as we would probably get. Each individual Ghostbird also has their own name in the game files, and the Prisoner is named "Kaepora" after the owl in the Legend of Zelda. Apparently the Ghostbirds are all voiced by real life elk from the Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle.

But yeah, passwords do exist in the game's code for all three of those seals. Ironically, the one for the invisible bridge seal is different from the one that you actually use and doesn't actually do anything, but the game's code considers it to be the proper code. None of these passwords can be found without datamining or brute forcing, the latter of which would take a very long time.

Incidentally, it would seem that you forgot about the breach in the Stranger, which is by far the fastest way to get to the canyon town. It ended up being my preferred place of entry for most of the game.

Below is spoilered just in case, but it's relatively minor, as it only points you to places where you may have missed stuff. Some of it is not stuff most people are expected to find.

If you come back to the stranger to tie up loose ends, I'd recommend going to the bell's exterior in the dream world, as you never explored that place. If you want to look for fun secrets, I'd recommend searching that area very thoroughly, and also trying to find a way to the roof of the canyon base in the dream world.

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Re: Outer Wilds - Recesses of Your Own Mind

Post by thatguyif »

So, two interesting bits to note. One unspoilered, one heavily spoilered.

The first is the music of the owl-elk/ghostbird/chozo/inhabitants of the Stranger that you heard in owlnet. You hear in the cabin in the woods a very eerie but melodic song, and one of those sounds is eminently present. When I looked at the credits, I didn't see this, but I'm pretty sure one of instruments Andrew Prahlow (the composer of the soundtrack of the game and DLC) used was a singing/musical saw (or, possibly used a Moog to create a sound similar to it). It's kind of the perfect folksy instrument that emits a spooky, ethereal sound. I think it fits really well with the setting here, especially given the purpose of owlnet.

An example of a singing saw:


The second:
It didn't dawn on me until watching it again through the LP...so, as noted, the first release of Echoes spoils the ending of the game pretty blatantly, especially for those who hadn't finished it. The revised version of the finale didn't do this, from what I could tell. But it also didn't seem like it connected itself to the ending either.

...Then I saw the last few frames of the Prisoner's last vision in the LP. And it suddenly made sense.

Well done there, devs. Well fucking done with that subtlety.
Draexzhan wrote: 1 year ago But yeah, passwords do exist in the game's code for all three of those seals. Ironically, the one for the invisible bridge seal is different from the one that you actually use and doesn't actually do anything, but the game's code considers it to be the proper code. None of these passwords can be found without datamining or brute forcing, the latter of which would take a very long time.[/ispoiler]
I suspect the devs' original vision was to actually provide the passwords for the three seals. But then they changed their minds for two reasons:
1. That would go against the spirit of the original game by providing a quick and easy answer to a puzzle.
2. It would make it likely that a player may inadvertently skip learning the backstory, which again goes against the spirit of the game.

Granted, you still need a code for one seal, but the point remains. I also think they deliberately left the codes in there for someone to find, since they certainly recognize its use in a speedrun setting.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Recesses of Your Own Mind

Post by Duker »

thatguyif wrote: 1 year agoThe first is the music of the owl-elk/ghostbird/chozo/inhabitants of the Stranger that you heard in owlnet. You hear in the cabin in the woods a very eerie but melodic song, and one of those sounds is eminently present. When I looked at the credits, I didn't see this, but I'm pretty sure one of instruments Andrew Prahlow (the composer of the soundtrack of the game and DLC) used was a singing/musical saw (or, possibly used a Moog to create a sound similar to it)
Sounds way more like a theremin to me
fart.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Recesses of Your Own Mind

Post by kitikami »

raocow once again nailing it with inferring what was in the sarcophagus.

This is such a beautiful ending to the DLC. Seeing everything you've pieced together throughout the game laid out like that tied everything together, and actually getting to communicate with the prisoner was such a cool moment. Now i really want to find a way to bring that staff to Solanum so the Nomai can finally know what happened with the Eye.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Recesses of Your Own Mind

Post by thatguyif »

Duker wrote: 1 year ago
thatguyif wrote: 1 year agoThe first is the music of the owl-elk/ghostbird/chozo/inhabitants of the Stranger that you heard in owlnet. You hear in the cabin in the woods a very eerie but melodic song, and one of those sounds is eminently present. When I looked at the credits, I didn't see this, but I'm pretty sure one of instruments Andrew Prahlow (the composer of the soundtrack of the game and DLC) used was a singing/musical saw (or, possibly used a Moog to create a sound similar to it)
Sounds way more like a theremin to me
While I see the reasoning, there's a reason I cite the musical saw.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Recesses of Your Own Mind

Post by PSI Ninja »

Draexzhan wrote: 1 year ago Incidentally, it would seem that you forgot about the breach in the Stranger, which is by far the fastest way to get to the canyon town. It ended up being my preferred place of entry for most of the game.
Same. I also preferred the hull breach entrance, because it provides quick access to a clickety-clack and an OwlNet port that doesn't get submerged.
Draexzhan wrote: 1 year ago But yeah, passwords do exist in the game's code for all three of those seals. Ironically, the one for the invisible bridge seal is different from the one that you actually use and doesn't actually do anything, but the game's code considers it to be the proper code. None of these passwords can be found without datamining or brute forcing, the latter of which would take a very long time.
By the way, if you input the passwords for the second and third seals, then what do they do? Do they summon the raft towards you and turn off the Beamos alarms, respectively?

Here are some other trivial things I thought about regarding the DLC, which I'm too lazy to test myself:
  1. If you enter OwlNet via the Hidden Gorge or the Submerged Structure, do you get to see the Owlks disappear in front of you when the flood douses their flames?
  2. When you step outside of your artifact's rendering zone, the Owlks become low poly. Is there a low poly version of our Hearthian? I never thought to look down towards my feet when in this mode.
  3. If you're in front of the dark side of the Stranger when it opens its sails and propels itself away from the expanding Sun, will it smash into you and kill you?
Speaking of the processional music that plays in the Shrouded Woodlands, I thought that the melody kind of sounds like "God Rest You Merry Gentlemen".
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Re: Outer Wilds - Recesses of Your Own Mind

Post by Draexzhan »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year agoBy the way, if you input the passwords for the second and third seals, then what do they do? Do they summon the raft towards you and turn off the Beamos alarms, respectively?
More specifically, the raft gets summoned, and the light on the bridge turns off, allowing you to go across without activating the alarms, meaning it's possible to actually meet the prisoner without killing yourself. And afterwards, if you go to the prisoner's bell in the real world, the sarcophagus is open and you can see their skeleton, holding an extinguished lantern.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Recesses of Your Own Mind

Post by thatguyif »

PSI Ninja wrote: 1 year ago Here are some other trivial things I thought about regarding the DLC, which I'm too lazy to test myself:
  1. If you enter OwlNet via the Hidden Gorge or the Submerged Structure, do you get to see the Owlks disappear in front of you when the flood douses their flames?
  2. When you step outside of your artifact's rendering zone, the Owlks become low poly. Is there a low poly version of our Hearthian? I never thought to look down towards my feet when in this mode.
  3. If you're in front of the dark side of the Stranger when it opens its sails and propels itself away from the expanding Sun, will it smash into you and kill you?
Speaking of the processional music that plays in the Shrouded Woodlands, I thought that the melody kind of sounds like "God Rest You Merry Gentlemen".
To answer your questions:
  1. Yes. Their disappearance is visualized.
  2. No. This is likely because the Hearthian is a species that evolved into sapience long after the Eternal Dream began. You don't see your feet when you look down, and it's likely that whatever the inhabitants saw was some really out of place placeholder model rather than how you project yourself.
  3. Doubtful. While the Stranger flies away faster than it is when it arrives in the system, it's not moving particularly fast. At the end of the cycle, it's only about 90-100 km away from the Sun. While far, it's nowhere near as far as you going full throttle away from the Sun for an entire loop, which I recall being around 10,000 km. It's possible you'll get injured, but not killed.
Anyway...
While I don't expect the finale tomorrow, we will be finished this week. Get ready.
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Re: Outer Wilds - Pathfinder

Post by helucard »

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Re: Outer Wilds - The Bell Tolls

Post by EllenHouraisan »

So, even reading the comments I still don't really get what the puzzle for the teleporter is. Are you just supposed to go in slightly after the sand pillar goes away? Because if so, it's really lame. Considering how many steps you needed to take to get to the coordinates or Solanum, this is barely a puzzle in comparisson, lol.
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Re: Outer Wilds - The Bell Tolls

Post by Draexzhan »

EllenHouraisan wrote: 1 year ago So, even reading the comments I still don't really get what the puzzle for the teleporter is. Are you just supposed to go in slightly after the sand pillar goes away? Because if so, it's really lame. Considering how many steps you needed to take to get to the coordinates or Solanum, this is barely a puzzle in comparisson, lol.
Actually, you have to go in while the sand pillar is pulling you up. Which is only possible to do if you stand where raocow stood. And while you say that, in every playthrough I've watched (my own included), this was the final thing the player had to figure out to

beat the game

. The way it's set up it's fairly inconspicuous, and generally not something people give much thought until they understand just how important it is to get to the ATP and which warp will take them there, which requires a very strong understanding of most of the Nomai saga. It's a simple puzzle, hidden in plain sight, which, when you think about it, is how a *lot* of this game already works. Unless it's quantum stuff, then it's hidden until it is in plain sight.

The entire game is specifically designed to

be beaten in a single loop if you already know what's going on. There's literally an achievement for doing that.



I will say though, I *do* kinda dislike how the way it's set up basically means the earliest you can go in is roughly seven minutes into the loop. It's not that I dislike the tighter time limit it grants you, I just don't like waiting in most situations. Though, a thought occurs to me now... would it be possible to (DLC spoilers)

free the prisoner and deliver the advanced warp core in the same loop?

If it is, it's probably only barely so.
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Re: Outer Wilds - The Bell Tolls

Post by FourteenthOrder »

Draexzhan wrote: 1 year ago would it be possible to (DLC spoilers)

free the prisoner and deliver the advanced warp core in the same loop?

If it is, it's probably only barely so.
Yep! But since the intended solution to the Prisoner puzzle involves killing yourself you need to know the datamined passcodes.
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Re: Outer Wilds - The Bell Tolls

Post by kitikami »

I appreciate that the Nomai are generally cognizant of the environments they are exploiting and take efforts to minimize the damage, like when they relocate the plants.

Buttons hands down deserved first chair in the elk choir. Stellar performance there.
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Re: Outer Wilds - The Bell Tolls

Post by Donut »

EllenHouraisan wrote: 1 year ago So, even reading the comments I still don't really get what the puzzle for the teleporter is. Are you just supposed to go in slightly after the sand pillar goes away? Because if so, it's really lame. Considering how many steps you needed to take to get to the coordinates or Solanum, this is barely a puzzle in comparisson, lol.
To expand on my explanation in the comments, while the puzzle is incredibly easy in practice, to have the requisite knowledge to solve it, you:

* Need to know how the warps work - most likely by finding and utilizing the white hole station
* Need to know about the Ash Twin Project, including that there is no normal entrance, and also that there is something inside that you critically need
* Find the high energy lab and its diagrams explaining which buildings correspond to which planets, or figure it out logically like raocow did
* Find the black hole forge and figure out its hint on which teleporter you need and why it seemingly won't activate on its own (which is probably the most non-obvious puzzle the main game throws at you)

For me at least it was the last thing I figured out in the game, and I was stuck on it for a couple days. It's almost beautiful how incredibly easy it is to execute in spite of that.
FourteenthOrder wrote: 1 year ago
Draexzhan wrote: 1 year ago would it be possible to (DLC spoilers)

free the prisoner and deliver the advanced warp core in the same loop?

If it is, it's probably only barely so.
Yep! But since the intended solution to the Prisoner puzzle involves killing yourself you need to know the datamined passcodes.
Going one step further, I'm wondering if it is possible to both reach the Prisoner and Solanum, and then beat the game in time. Given the Stranger zooms away after a point, you'd obviously have to do that first, and if you have good luck with the Quantum Moon that would only take a few minutes. It's probably possible, but a cursory search didn't bring up any videos of the feat.
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Re: Outer Wilds - The Bell Tolls

Post by EllenHouraisan »

I can definitely imagine myself finding the Ash Twin Project first thing and then getting mad at raocow for going everywhere except for that one teleporter. But I guess we will never find out in this timeline.
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Re: Outer Wilds - The Bell Tolls

Post by thatguyif »

EllenHouraisan wrote: 1 year ago I can definitely imagine myself finding the Ash Twin Project first thing and then getting mad at raocow for going everywhere except for that one teleporter. But I guess we will never find out in this timeline.
I doubt that. Nearly every person who has played this game has run into the same puzzle, and those who figured it out did so using a non-standard train of thought. You have the benefit of external observation, so you're not in the mindset of playing this game, let alone in the way raocow is playing it. You may see what he, let alone of the rest of us, didn't. This is certainly coloring your view of the situation, and this bias overstates your competence.
Donut wrote: 1 year ago Stuff about stuff
It's worth noting that speedruns of this game do not complete this game in a single loop. That's because the very first loop does not actually start until after you interact with the Nomai statue, but the game's solar system still operates normally. This makes it difficult to do things in a single loop because routing has to take into that time used to get to that point. So typically, the immediate response after the Nomai statue wakes up is to kill yourself to reset the loop. Any% does the game in two loops: First loop then complete the game. Solanum% and Prisoner% does three: First loop, meet the friend, complete the game. All Friends is four loops: First loop, one loop for each friend, complete the game.

With that said, getting either friend in the first loop is complicated by separate factors. For the Prisoner, you face the fact that you are basically stuck in an extended cutscene for about 5 minutes, and you cannot simply leave once you meet them. Given that it takes about 2 minutes to get to the Stranger, then about 3 minutes to get to the Diving Bell, you're about halfway through the loop, and it may take another 3 or so minutes to get to Ash Twin. That gives you about 5 minutes to get the core, bring it to the Vessel, and trigger the warp. Very little room for error. On top of all this, you have to reach the Stranger blind, since you will likely not make it to the Deep Space satellite in time to spot the black spot.

Getting Solanum, though, has a much bigger potential complication. While I'm not certain on the exact specifics, I'm 90% certain that your ship does not come with you when you switch planets on the Quantum Moon. I say 90% because it might be possible to either record a picture of your ship to keep it anchored to the moon (but at the same time I think your scout just doesn't work), or you can just return to the planet you arrived on the Quantum Moon and it'll be there (which I think happened in my original playthrough?). Regardless, without your ship, you have a much harder time completing the game in a single loop. It's possible to just complete the game without your ship (there are shipless speed runs, after all), but it would require A. Making sure the Quantum Moon is orbiting the Twins when you leave, B. Masterful use of your jetpack and scout to reach the Ash Twin Project, get the Vessel without using up all your jetpack fuel and/or understanding the door glitch to skip the quantum segment that requires jetpack fuel.

So, is it possible to complete the game and get a single friend on the first loop? Yes. Would it be very difficult? Yes. Is it possible to get both? Maybe, but I doubt it.
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Re: Outer Wilds - The Bell Tolls

Post by Donut »

One last thing about the warp: Recalling my old train of thought, I shrugged my shoulder at the ATP warp for most the game because between not getting it to activate and the ceiling being broken, I made the perhaps dangerous assumption that the warp was broken until the black hole forge hint finally clicked with me.
thatguyif wrote: 1 year ago Stuff about stuff about stuff
That's fair enough - I didn't consider how hard it would be to get back to your ship from the Quantum Moon. But now I'm remembering that I've seen videos of getting to the ship during the tutorial, and how the only reason you have to complete the tutorial is that the loop doesn't "start" until the statue activates, and you need to start the timer so the Ash Twin will drain enough for you to access the warp. With that in mind, I wonder if there's anything stopping you from completing The Stranger while time is frozen, then finish the tutorial and start the timer so you can finish Solanum/The game. You could argue this goes against the spirit of the feat, but at the same time you need to datamine or brute-force the passwords on The Stranger for it to be possible at all, so...
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