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Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by KobaBeach »

monsters and tales
story of undertale

Also wow the cheap way the blocks fall off when Mecha Dragon bonks them, thats so funny
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by TiKi »

KobaBeach wrote: 2 years agoAlso wow the cheap way the blocks fall off when Mecha Dragon bonks them, thats so funny
to be fair wasn't that in the original
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by KobaBeach »

TiKi wrote: 2 years ago to be fair wasn't that in the original
they didn't slowly rotate and fall off like a baby tearing down a tower of sonic 06 havok physics toy blocks
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Kilgamayan »

I unironically really enjoyed that take on the Dragon Chase, even if the fight itself was exceedingly boring.

NEXT STAGE FUCKAWESOME MUSIC \m/
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Bean »

Wily 2's song is the final stage from Mega Man III on the Game Boy. And yeah, I just abused Rush Jet in parts like that where spikes are everywhere because this and the next level are kind of long.
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Chirei »

I thought about retrying this game after this LP started but after seeing today's level and actually being busy with work I can safely say this game absolutely wouldn't have been worth my time at a second attempt.

At least in most other fangames that have insane instant kill sections I have some small hope or expectation that at least the boss might be something ludicrous i've never seen before that might make me laugh if I power/cheese through it.

I do wonder how this is any better with co-op? How could you possibly work a stage whose gimmick is just awkward instant kill traps between two players at the same time?
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Bean »

Chirei wrote: 2 years agoI do wonder how this is any better with co-op? How could you possibly work a stage whose gimmick is just awkward instant kill traps between two players at the same time?
I haven't played co-op, but the stage itself

has more switch puzzles involved like most of the co-op stages and is even a bit longer. It also has plenty of spikes, and when either player dies, you're sent back to the start or checkpoint. The boss also winds up being more like a traditional Devil fight (no 2D plane switching gimmick) except that there's now a spiked ceiling and those Wave Man/Splash Woman bubbles that want to carry you up into said ceiling. It looked hard!

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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Isrieri »

There's a self-destruct button? Man, that is lame.
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Grounder »

Isrieri wrote: 2 years ago There's a self-destruct button? Man, that is lame.
gotta have some insurance for when wily tries hacking rock
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Catabo »

In the spike shaft that cow was having trouble with, is it a possible strategy to let the met shoot you and get through with invincibility frames? or do the i-frames not last that long?
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Chirei »

This level is definitely a lot better than the previous one.

It still sort of reeks of relying on ninja gaiden'ing the player into a pit from damage knockback and that's the most disappointing about it to me for one reason: the level is already set up to be an endurance challenge where you disable the switches like Teleporter Base in Zero 4.

A fair amount of those hammer setups are somewhat hard to avoid, and also sections like these without being instant kill:
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Why not just let things like this carry the level? Why does there need to be a slide into spikes directly after this or yoku blocks where you can't see half the setup?

On top of this, the boss is kind of absurd, since they're the unnerfed versions with the same amount of health. It's very unlikely someone going in blind would make it to them unscathed.
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Bean »

Each of the Mega Man Hunters/Killers has a weakness. Enker's weak to Pharaoh Shot, Punk gets wrecked by Laser Trident, and Ballade's weakness is supposed to be Search Snake, but I went with Tornado Blow and just barely scraped by those three back in the day. And yeah, Punk is easily the worst of them because your eyes need to be focused on his attacks rather than trying to hit him, but it's not the easiest to hit him like that!
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by camwoodstock »

quoth description raocow: "see those hammer obstacles are pretty rad, but they also represent that little 'something' I feel a lot of people mention they felt was missing. imagine if the whole game had more interactions like that, or like lanes, things of that nature"

and like... yea! we agree! why did this game not have many inter-planar interactions? it's called 2.5d, but like thus far there's been a Staggering lack of 2.5d setups. realistically for most stages, the "2.5d" amounts to "the camera swivels a bit". and what's especially baffling is... in the original animations this game's based on... There are 2.5D setups. like, a TON of them. the metal man animations in particular (who was ultimately replaced with time man, it seems) show what are ostensibly the replacement for spike shafts as mega man moves on a wide conveyor pulling him and has to go left or right to avoid spikes he's being pulled towards. why didn't we see that setup? why'd we get a normal spike shaft in a game where there's no screen transition delay and that delay is what makes the spike shafts balanced??? why'd they replace metal man with time man anyways?????
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by TiKi »

camwoodstock wrote: 2 years ago quoth description raocow: "see those hammer obstacles are pretty rad, but they also represent that little 'something' I feel a lot of people mention they felt was missing. imagine if the whole game had more interactions like that, or like lanes, things of that nature"

and like... yea! we agree! why did this game not have many inter-planar interactions? it's called 2.5d, but like thus far there's been a Staggering lack of 2.5d setups. realistically for most stages, the "2.5d" amounts to "the camera swivels a bit". and what's especially baffling is... in the original animations this game's based on... There are 2.5D setups. like, a TON of them. the metal man animations in particular (who was ultimately replaced with time man, it seems) show what are ostensibly the replacement for spike shafts as mega man moves on a wide conveyor pulling him and has to go left or right to avoid spikes he's being pulled towards. why didn't we see that setup? why'd we get a normal spike shaft in a game where there's no screen transition delay and that delay is what makes the spike shafts balanced??? why'd they replace metal man with time man anyways?????
i have to give props to time man for at least not feeling like an asset flip.

also idk if i'd call it "great" (it has its own issues) but once you get used to the tank controls it's pretty entertaining
https://gamejolt.com/games/megaman-3d-2 ... acity/8395

not only is it actual 3d, but it has some unique gameplay ideas that are exactly the kind of thing i find fangames should embrace.
-a zelda/metroidvania-esque setup. there's an overworld and several "dungeons" each with several robot masters. you have to pick and choose from the robot masters that you can currently access, and defeating X amount unlocks the next dungeon (which also means you can kill all the early game bosses to get ahead in later dungeons). there's also a few linear story dungeons.
-each robot master's power isn't necessarily a weapon. some of them are traversal abilities or equippable idle abilities a la paper mario badges.
-a shared energy meter for all abilities. makes some abilities junk but allows the good ones to shine
-since each dungeon tends to be elemental-themed, lucky thing that robot masters tend to have elemental weaknesses. this means that all ice abilities affect all fire robot masters, for example.
-findable e-tanks, w-tanks, life expansions, and weapon energy expansions - both in the overworld and inside dungeons
-when you die you respawn on the same screen
-quick teleporting to each dungeon entrance you've touched both inside (unlike zelda) and outside dungeons, as well as being able to teleport out of a dungeon at any time.

and would you believe it's over 10 years old?

while i'm not exactly sure i could recommend it to raocow for an LP due to the tank controls and the pressure to get 100%, i definitely encourage anyone disappointed by the 3d in this game to at least give it a try.

(there is a megaman 3d 1 but it sucks - there's less robot masters and thus less broken abilities to use, there's no charge buster, you have to kill every robot master, and the final area/boss are hell)
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Kilgamayan »

> Fighting Punk in a game where the Mega Buster isn't chargeable

not even once
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by KobaBeach »

camwoodstock wrote: 2 years ago and like... yea! we agree! why did this game not have many inter-planar interactions? it's called 2.5d, but like thus far there's been a Staggering lack of 2.5d setups. realistically for most stages, the "2.5d" amounts to "the camera swivels a bit". and what's especially baffling is... in the original animations this game's based on... There are 2.5D setups. like, a TON of them.
This is such a fucking crime, because the perennial 2.5D platformer to me is Klonoa 1 and I'm pretty sure I'm setting my standards sky high by comparing it to that... But i feel like if you're gonna do 2.5D platformers you should really study how Klonoa and other games like that mess with the idea of "2D in a 3D space" from stuff like inter-planar setups to dynamic camera angles, to interesting ways the path can curve off to...

But this literally just has you turn the corner every single time
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Bean »

Shadow Blade on Wily was the right idea, but sadly, it was on the wrong phase of the fight. That's for the second part. First phase is weak to Quick Boomerang since that weapon arcs down and hits the eyes. Other than, no real reason to post the weakness chain other than for documentation, so yeah.

Time > Quick > Tornado > Snake > Shadow > Splash > Star > Pharaoh > Time

And Bond Man's just a shoot him with the buster fight, so it's basically get up in his face and then get away before he jumps right on you.
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by camwoodstock »

you would think the boss named bond man would primarily use the attack of using his glue bond to stun you. that is secondary, of course, to bond man's true attack:

pile driving you

why does everything in the lategame deal like 27 points of damage??? we get it's the endgame but like if your enemy attack patterns aren't complex enough to be challenging/threatening once you get to realize what they are, the proper solution isn't to just make them deal fgdshjkfgdillion damage. Speaking Of:
KobaBeach wrote: 2 years ago
camwoodstock wrote: 2 years ago and like... yea! we agree! why did this game not have many inter-planar interactions? it's called 2.5d, but like thus far there's been a Staggering lack of 2.5d setups. realistically for most stages, the "2.5d" amounts to "the camera swivels a bit". and what's especially baffling is... in the original animations this game's based on... There are 2.5D setups. like, a TON of them.
This is such a fucking crime, because the perennial 2.5D platformer to me is Klonoa 1 and I'm pretty sure I'm setting my standards sky high by comparing it to that... But i feel like if you're gonna do 2.5D platformers you should really study how Klonoa and other games like that mess with the idea of "2D in a 3D space" from stuff like inter-planar setups to dynamic camera angles, to interesting ways the path can curve off to...

But this literally just has you turn the corner every single time
it's so weird! and also like, the boss fights especially, with the notable exception of the mecha dragon, have basically No 2.5d element to them and are just their 2d fights 1:1??? it'd be fine if it was like, "phase 1" of a 2 phase fight, like for the first third of the health bar you get used to the concept of that robot master, but then the 2.5d kicks in! and like there's so much you can do with that stuff! like just a few off the top of our head:
  • time man could occasionally get atop a cool clock in the background and attack from the background, and as a desperation move the clock itself attacks from the background. might need a non-standard arena setup to make the most of this one
  • listen we really just want tornado man to start blowing you all around the room very literally, in addition to his "standard" attacks. maybe the effective arena could be different based on the "slice" of the arena you're in?
  • snake man firing his weapons Forward (or backward) on tiles that are only 1 tile thick, so he can just temporarily lock down moving on that tile as a snake keeps going 'round and 'round. of course you can prolly jump just fine if you time it right but shhh
  • splash woman could summon Other water enemies and have them attack from the background and foreground?
  • ok he's a fortress boss but like imagine punk charging at the background and attacking you from there. imagine how silly that'd be.
like, it would not be THAT hard to conceptualize a way for the bosses to work in a 2.5d setting. but instead, we get cutting corners, not in the metaphorical "laziness" meaning but in the "oh you literally turn a corner & the camera swivels". it feels rude for us to say this but like... Man, :aliceko:
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Grounder »

bond man not giving a weapon's pretty lame imo

yeah, it'd probably just be concrete shot, but it's not like 2.5d is trying to be original beyond the corner-wrap gimmick
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Chirei »

I'm not quite sure how to make sense of the boss weaknesses but i'll try:

Quick Man doesn't like being slowed down.

Snake Man and his snakes need to slither along the ground to perform, so blowing them into the air would severely ruin their game plan.

Shadow Man is a ninja, but the Search Snake is literally a weapon made to search out even hidden foes.

Splash Woman being weak to Shadow Blade feels shoed in only because of the weapon being multidirectional. Not sure about this one.

Star Man being weak to the Laser Trident also feels like another mechanical weakness because it pierces armor and shields.

Time Man is weak to Pharaoh Shot because pharaohs endure across the ages with what they left behind.

Pharaoh Man is weak to Star Crash because the sun and the stars are opposing distinct celestial bodies in various mythoses.

Tornado Man is weak to Quick Boomerang because Quick Man is even faster than the wind.
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Kilgamayan »

I enjoyed the second half of that Wily fight because of the brain power necessary to keep track of the shots. The player's MegaMan Brain is already programmed to expect them to come down at a certain point in time thanks to 30-odd years of this shit, but the fact that they shoot off the screen entirely allows the game to add an entire extra beat before they come crashing down, thus making it so a bullet only reappears after the next bullet is fired. This forces the player to remember where they were when the previous shot was fired as soon as they hear the current shot being fired.

Or you can just tank through everything with a glut of E's, if you happen to be playing three games a day for a paying audience and therefore have to adhere to a fairly strict time-limited schedule which in turn limits your ability to have fun with anything.
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by TiKi »

Chirei wrote: 2 years ago I'm not quite sure how to make sense of the boss weaknesses but i'll try:

Quick Man doesn't like being slowed down.

Snake Man and his snakes need to slither along the ground to perform, so blowing them into the air would severely ruin their game plan.

Shadow Man is a ninja, but the Search Snake is literally a weapon made to search out even hidden foes.

Splash Woman being weak to Shadow Blade feels shoed in only because of the weapon being multidirectional. Not sure about this one.

Star Man being weak to the Laser Trident also feels like another mechanical weakness because it pierces armor and shields.

Time Man is weak to Pharaoh Shot because pharaohs endure across the ages with what they left behind.

Pharaoh Man is weak to Star Crash because the sun and the stars are opposing distinct celestial bodies in various mythoses.

Tornado Man is weak to Quick Boomerang because Quick Man is even faster than the wind.
Are there any secondary weaknesses in this game? I feel like most of this stuff is just guessing. Like, why wouldn't it make sense for Time Slow to affect a ninja boss, a tornado boss, and the boss that was originally weak to Flash Stopper?
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by KobaBeach »

man they really half-assed the wily machine

adramelech this is not
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by raocow »

Kilgamayan wrote: 2 years ago

Or you can just tank through everything with a glut of E's, if you happen to be playing three games a day for a paying audience and therefore have to adhere to a fairly strict time-limited schedule which in turn limits your ability to have fun with anything.
this took a turn
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Re: Mega Man 2.5D - Rocking the Third Dimension... Kind of!

Post by Bean »

raocow wrote: 2 years agothis took a turn
Happy Birthday!

Also, you did probably have an extended recording session that day anyway. Was it two or three hours?
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