raocow's talkhaus

what is 1F0 lol

Rixithechao wrote: ↑1 year agoWell, yes, but like, I do remember there were people who sounded like they didn’t know what to do with the hands they were dealt. So maybe not have the sources provided to everyone by default, but they could still be available when asked? idk.

I guess my main thing here is, if having the context is the difference between someone not being able to come up with anything and submitting a boss, I’d rather folks be able to get that info. Even if the resulting inspiration chain reaction snowballs off into something too indirect or detached to count toward the gimmick adherence score, that’s still only one part of the rubric. And, again, at the end of the day it’s Make a Fun Awesome Boss, not Make A High-Ranking Boss.

So for any other contest I completely agree with that sentiment, but for exactly MaFAB I think part of the planning is specifically based on "okay let's try not to get like 60 entrants" - that's why the first one was only up for like a week, for instance. So I don't personally see a problem with things being "a little harder than they need to be" in the name of ending up with a reasonable number of bosses for the episode. It's unfortunate when people don't come up with anything to work with, but it'd also be a little weird if we ended up with like 40 bosses in the game, y'know?

Technically, folks do sometimes include bosses in their level contest entries -- for the SMBX community's Super Community Contest way back when I started with a boss and worked backwards, there was the Denmark fight in MaGLX2, and now in this contest we've already had at least one (arguably two or three) fights in Trash Level. So depending on where you draw the line, 40 might not be that far out there :p

But yeah, I get what you mean. Doesn't stop it from still feeling a tiny bit gatekeep-y though... like, for a number of folks, myself included, MaFAB2 has been our first and only opportunity to participate in an actual boss design contest instead of just submitting a boss to a level contest. I didn't even hear about the first MaFAB until after it was over, but it happened during a busy school week so I wouldn't have been able to enter even if I had known in advance.

Also, looking back, I had forgotten that the first MaFAB had 31 entries in spite of the short notice and tiny signup/submission period??? This one gave us over a month to work on our bosses. Really, even with the more difficult gimmick, I'm surprised we ended up with fewer entries this time around; it's not like MaFAB1 got the kind of aggressive campaigning for submissions that MaGLX2 did.

I very much disagree with Zyg. There's a big difference between "tight constraints discourage entries" and "flaws in the design turn off people who are legitimately interested and willing to work to the general constraints, but don't feel able to work with what they get".

I mean, I guess if everyone's screenshots were as vague as mine but we got however many entries anyways, then that's just the overall difficulty of the gimmick and I'm grumpy that it was too high for me. I'd still take issue, but I can understand Zyg's position better in that case.

But if what actually happened was "some people got really vague sets which were harder to work with", then it's a problem of fairness. Which absolutely warrants thinking about in the future.

As to why MAFAB1 got more entries, it's probably because all the hyping up of X2 got more people interested in what was going on with it in general. So even though a relatively small portion of those people were watching it enough to notice the boss contest, that was a small portion of a bigger whole and that means it ended up with more people. That would be my guess, anyways.

Rixithechao wrote: ↑1 year agoWith that said, making your main priority tailoring entries to what the host seems to be looking for or aiming to get the most points possible doesn't really sound like it's in the spirit of the whole thing. And asking for more thorough instructions about how the entries would be judged presumes the judging criteria for MAFAB2 was as concrete or fleshed out as the criteria for the main contest, when raocow outright stated in last night's video that he purposefully made the rubric simple.

Nothing wrong with clarifying whether it's 'all' or 'any' pictures, though. If you're told you're supposed to get something from each of the 6 pictures, which the hub NPC seems to be implying, then the contestants would think "Sure I'll do that", unless they just decide not to for whatever reason. If it's just a pool of six pictures and taking enough from that pool is sufficient to adhere to the gimmick, the contestants should be informed of that as well. Thus gives entreants the clear to narrow their focus to one or more pictures, with the confidence that they're meeting the expected gimmick.

I suppose I could've thought of asking about this during submission, but it's really something that could have been stated somewhere public.

ano0maly wrote: ↑1 year agoNothing wrong with clarifying whether it's 'all' or 'any' pictures, though. If you're told you're supposed to get something from each of the 6 pictures, which the hub NPC seems to be implying, then the contestants would think "Sure I'll do that", unless they just decide not to for whatever reason. If it's just a pool of six pictures and taking enough from that pool is sufficient to adhere to the gimmick, the contestants should be informed of that as well. Thus gives entreants the clear to narrow their focus to one or more pictures, with the confidence that they're meeting the expected gimmick.

I suppose I could've thought of asking about this during submission, but it's really something that could have been stated somewhere public.

I feel like people might not be remembering what was stated in PMs sent out with the gimmicks? I presume the following little message from raocow was in all of them.

rao wrote: 'Video game bosses normally come from video games. Here are random screenshots of video games. Let them inspire you some form of confrontation. Be very free and use as little or as much as you want, but when you submit your file, for the sake of clarity, explain in a sentence how the images informed your work.'

Note that the bolding was in the original message itself. How does "be very free and use as little or as much as you want" not make clear that you don't need to push yourself to incorporate all six? I thought it was pretty clear to just... let yourself be inspired by them, and use as much of little of them as felt right to you, and explain how the images informed your work.

That's how I interpreted it, but there are people who have trouble with even tiny amounts of ambiguity. Someone could read that and think "images" means "all of them".

I do think it's good to have concrete rules listed, in addition to directives like that. It's just easier for some people to understand.

Dragon Fogel wrote: ↑1 year ago That's how I interpreted it, but there are people who have trouble with even tiny amounts of ambiguity. Someone could read that and think "images" means "all of them".

This is exactly my biggest problem with stuff in written text, as an aspie, ambiguity is terrible for me in instructions (i literally freeze up), but terrific for me in prose.

I felt that the PM message didn't quite answer it because it's not spelled out in the scoring. The PM sounded more like a generic encouragement where we shouldn't feel pressured to force all 6 in there, but didn't go into the scoring breakdown that conveys the intended criteria, as to whether it's really just selecting whatever elements we want from the pool of 6 (much like selecting either of the playable characters in MAGLX2) instead of each of the 6.

And now with the NPC seeming to affirm "each of the 6 randomly selected screenshots", it adds to the confusion.

I don't mind it either way as long as it's clarified one way or the other.

the sheer irony of "the a-slide never ends" being in the b-side slot

Yeah that NPC didn't explain the MaFAB2 gimmick very well; it's more like "use anything from at least one of the 6 images"
Anyway now that circus world is done, I'd have to say my favorite level from that tier is Fawriel's cause it's cute.

So this is the MaGLX3 experience I was waiting for. I'm glad I didn't have to wait long. Now then, my personal comments...

145th: Nostalgic Venomous Rainforest - I was pretty excited seeing this one, and then it just kind of... ended. Which is a shame, because the content that was there is pretty nice. This is something I wouldn't mind being expanded into a full level at all.

144th: A Place Further Than Mario Galaxy - This was super cute for a level with a flat surface, and I appreciate it. The fact this is down in the lowest tier says something about the quality of this contest in general. People have put their all into this one, I can tell.

143rd: Gloom Lagoon - Quite the enemy-dense level, though thought was obviously put into the level. I DO like the touch that the friendly Pansers remained friendly throughout the level. Thank goodness they did, too. I appreciate some nice dialogue, too, so this level's perfectly fine in my book. I also also can get behind the message here. More people should be concerned about invasive species. (Though later, and in other places besides this thread here)

142nd: Too Many Rivers 2: Lakitu's Frosty Revenge - Hey, it's an improvement over the first one! That's nice to see. But yes... the geometry is largely unchanged from the first version, so you can see what 6 years can do to age a level. It's not that pretty. But hey, functional level town is here, dialogue is appreciated, and while the path isn't the most obvious, and Parakoopas can get stuck in some of the waterway pipes, that's okay, because that's keeping the player from getting sidetracked, secretly.

BOSS - 23rd: Fiery Permafrost - This is a tragedy, really. I definitely, DEFINITELY want to see a completed version of this boss. I am a sucker for turn-based combat and the like, and seeing it in SMBX is always a treat.

Mm, quality is picking up already, and I'm a huge fan of it. Nothing today was even close to offensive.

I find it amusing that a completely non-functional boss got ranked higher than Boss Bot Blue lmao. But I can definitely see the potential, the idea is quite original and it's a shame it didn't work out in the end.

Author of Gloom Lagoon. Not surprised Rao missed the small part of the second goomba dialogue where he said the ones at the start are friendly, and I kept them in a kind of cage, so they were domesticated. Definitely should have found a better way to show that in gameplay. Super glad Sturg liked this level so much, and the Fishiest Level award is great.

raocow does a teleport

did that first MAFAB boss actually NOT use thumbnails??? is that why there's the "no data" thing??? i'm kinda confused by it ngl

Nostalgic Venomous Rainforest is, Well. how do you expect me to describe 2 screens. you just kinda. bounce across 2 types of enemies. i mean, one is the ninji which is a cool choice! i guess. and um. there are poison. Yeah. i got nothing honestly, it's playable, but like, yeah this is totally impossible for me to cover in a meaningful way. i like the backgrounds though! they're very pretty.

A Place Further Than Mario Galaxy is what i was expecting to see in tier 1 way too much, but we didn't! i am SO GLAD it took us 5 videos to achieve a "Oh Whoops I Didn't Actually Have A level This Time" Level, and presumably, we won't be seeing anymore now that Tier 1 is over. can I just say, Thank Gosh Though??? maglx2 had a whole dang tier that was mostly those and i definitely couldn't see me doing these if the first tier was more like maglx2's. does make me wonder why THIS one made it in. were more levels like those submitted to the contest and just left out with the exception of this one because they all scored lower than even the rainbow shell zone???

Gloom Lagoon is kind of an enemy spam fest. i mean, the tileset MOSTLY is broken. that's a big "mostly" though since once you get past the ridges at the start and end and that hill at the very start and the "lodge" is also broken but then past that the tileset Does In Fact Work? beyond that it's like. do you like those panser plants from mario 2? i do! but do you like 5 MILLION of them??? no??? Sorry Here's 5 Million Of Them In Fact, wait did you want to go through the 5 Million Pansers a second time for 10 Million Acumulative Pansers what do you MEAN no here's the level but you go through it backwards with lava now actually. the fishes literally self-destruct themselves bc like this isn't a Luigi Maker level, the fish don't get immunity to lava and become flaming if you put them in lava, no if they enter lava they do perish. i do wonder if there are actually more fish in other levels.

Too Many Rivers 2: Lakitu's Frosty Revenge has a very good opening actually??? like it opens decently??? it looks like something i'd create in fact and it is definitely not going to win any awards but it Definitely Feels Like A Luigi!!! which is surprisingly strange to see in Tier 1. i do get this is the "best" level of Tier 1 so it's meant to be, y'know. the best one and is going to be better than everything else in Tier 1. but still! the big "problem" is that it's basically just A Kinda Boring Maze. which yeah, in terms of gameplay, it defs gets quite tedious. but i feel like a large part of what makes it "bad" is just that there's not really too much an identity to the dead ends. they're just. kinda. dead ends, yeah. only one of the rivers--the Correct one--has any sort of identity, which kinda stinks! i feel like if the dead ends had unique things in the pipes maybe, or even lead to single-room sub-areas that could even have power-ups or other rewards for your exploration, it'd be Actually Kinda Neat! the second half once you Find The Right Path is also pretty alright but definitely i feel like the NPCs complaining could've been somewhere else--maybe in dead-ends? the fight is anti-climactic but i feel like that's The Joke. apparently this is just kind of a clone of a MaGLX1 level but with Ice Physics which is why it placed so low which, yeah i can see why it did in that case, but like. the general core of a proper "sequel" IS here!!! i could actually see this being a good level!!! it's just a shame it doesn't really Go For It, y'know???

WE HAVE ACTIVATED MAFAB2'S TRICK with Fiery Permafrost. i do wonder if anyone's image sets included 2. i love raocow's lp of 2 honestly. i don't know yet, i never sat down to play maglx3 after asking for the download yet Whoopsie! remember my comment about "oh man we sure didn't get any levels of 'Oh Whoops I Didn't Get To Enter This Time!' this time"? I LIED BY TECHNICALITY, we didn't get anything like that for MAGLX3 but WE DID GET ANOTHER FOR MAFAB2. honestly though its precense for a MAFAB makes even less sense...??? also the fact that it placed higher than Ice Blob Guy is. kinda weird but a little silly in some messed up way. i do frankly like Ice Blob Guy more bc at least i can actually fight him, y'know???

A-SIDE'S TRICK

fiery permafrost sounds like something i'd do but i wouldn't do it in a week's deadline

Level: "[The pansers] like humans though. Well the few right here at least.
raocow: *confusion*

I thought it was pretty clear what it meant. I can see how it might be unclear, but I feel like seeing that the first group of pansers don't hurt you while the rest of them do should be enough to clear things up.

Also, as a fan of multilingual word based humour I like the pain = bread joke raocow made here.

- Level Comments -

Nostalgic Venomous Rainforest: I died here. Twice. First I simply missed the jump on the first ninji. Then I thought "maybe if I wait a bit for them to pile up it will be easier to land on one", but that strategy did not work well. Surprisingly I didn't die in the second room despite me using the somewhat dangerous strategy of bouncing on each and every buzzy beetle rather than clearing everything with one big bounce. Dodging around the podoboos was pretty fun though.

A Place Further Than Mario Galaxy: The cat sprite was cute, although there seems to be some slight issues with the sprites for jumping while big: one of the cat's ears isn't fully visible, and while descending some weird pixels appear below the cat.

Gloom Lagoon: I found this level to be decently fun, although I would have appreciated a midpoint. One thing I liked was that the block that contains a podoboo exists in the normal version of the level; it's just hidden off screen, and it contains a leaf. I ended up sticking with fire flowers though, because the only thing I could see the leaf being useful for is just flying over everything, and I didn't want to do that. Also, I always get a chuckle seeing a mushroom fall into lava and remembering how that used to crash the game (even if missing one of the mushrooms is what ultimately caused me to die).

Too Many Rivers 2: Lakitu's Frosty Revenge: Oh man, I remember seeing raocow play the first Too Many Rivers level. I found the "boss fight" funny, although it seems weird to me that the one lakitu you're able to hurt is the one lakitu whose absence can make things unwinnable (although you'd have to be trying to actually get trapped here). At least there's an exit level option now (why SMBX didn't have this to begin with I'll never know).

Fiery Permafrost: It would have been neat to see this actually working. I did like Sturg's comment here.

- End of Level Comments -

On the note of MAFAB: I personally kind of like how vague the instructions were. I am curious what image sets everyone got, as I reckon that could play a big part in whether or not someone liked it. Although with the instructions saying "use as little or as much as you want" I find it hard to imagine a scenario where one would have nothing to work with.

Just looking at Mechdragon's images for example: even if you somehow have basically zero knowledge about video game characters, not even Mario, and thus don't recognize any of the pictures, and even pretending the picture that obviously depicts a boss fight doesn't exist, there are still things to look at and take inspiration from. For example: one image depicts a character on a platform with saws around and mountains in the background, one image depicts a character in a locale known as "Hot Foot Caverns", and one image depicts a character who appears to have accumulated a wealth of 201. Just from that I can already imagine a simple boss fight where you'd have to collect a bunch of coins while a boss attacks you with saws.

In the tags raocow describes an alternate take on this gimmick where there's just one big pool of 500 or so screenshots that everyone would pick from, which I feel like would have been interesting to see.

Seeing the "A-Slide" joke reminds me: I haven't been watching raocow's MaGMML videos, and I've been so used to raocow having Mario videos in that time slot, so when it seemed like this was going to start I checked raocow's channel and was tricked by that day's MaGMML video having Mario graphics in the thumbnail.

It wasn't a very good level but seeing a sequel to Too Many Rivers just makes nostalgic little kappy very happy

The MAFAB2 gimmick was honestly interesting here! I took the instructions as what it started out saying: "You don't have to use all the images, but please do explain how what you DID use inspired this!" Perhaps that was the wording that should've been used- learning experience for next time!~

I actually struggled with my entry. When I first saw my selection of screenshots, I saw an image from La-Mulana and instantly thought "OKAY LET'S MAKE SAKIT". ...I ran out of time to actually make that, so I had to change tactics and that was my struggle- I had like 48 hours to come up with a new idea and make it... I consider myself lucky I managed to complete it, even if it's a clustertruck in the end due to my lack of time for testing the difficulty... I'll explain my inspiration when my boss shows up! (I expect it in the next tier just due to the difficulty. >w>; ) I really am proud of what I came up with, though. I wanna make it again, but grander~ More EXCITING~ In a way that people would enjoy more. :p


FUN FACT: I made a silly filename for the Sakit prototype as I was building it: "Sir, I'm Afraid You Sat In My Soup". I'm quite proud of that word salad nightmare for some reason.

brakely 2

Seeing an old level come back is really fun for me, and probably any avid lover of the MaGL LPs. I'm pretty happy, haha.

But also maaaan here we go, the LP is really really getting going <3

Haha, that brief pause when raocow saw the Mike Boo again.

In Too Many Rivers 2, I had no recollection of the original level, so I didn't know you had to go down the waterfalls. I was stumped until I uncovered a leaf in a hidden block, so I used it to fly over the wall at the dead end.

Also, when I played, Edward von Ward was standing to the right of Utsi's level instead of Zarcyne's. Must have been fixed in the latest patch.

Can Rameau just go ahead and judge every contest ever conceived in the history of mankind? Thanks.

MonkeyShrapnel wrote: ↑1 year ago Can Rameau just go ahead and judge every contest ever conceived in the history of mankind? Thanks.

nooooooooo

Rixithechao wrote: ↑1 year ago like, for a number of folks, myself included, MaFAB2 has been our first and only opportunity to participate in an actual boss design contest instead of just submitting a boss to a level contest.

You raise a good point. I do still think for the purposes of this compiled game aiming for a sensible number of entries makes sense, but it is true that our boss contests keep having to do that, 'cause they keep being rolled into MaGLs. Maybe a standalone MaFAB 3 in the time between this and X4 would be a fun idea? Provided somebody wants to run it <.<

Zarcyne1 wrote: ↑1 year ago Author of Gloom Lagoon. Not surprised Rao missed the small part of the second goomba dialogue where he said the ones at the start are friendly, and I kept them in a kind of cage, so they were domesticated. Definitely should have found a better way to show that in gameplay. Super glad Sturg liked this level so much, and the Fishiest Level award is great.

Idiot reporting in, a dialog box conveys it perfectly well but I read "they like humans" and interpreted it as "they like human [flesh]". I'd have probably just said they're "friendly" to get around that but it's kind of on me for misinterpreting in the first place :b