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this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by SpoonyBardOL »

So is Rameau's judge icon a hammerhead shark or a guy in a helmet?
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Le Neveu de Rameau »

I guess we'll never know.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Chirei »

TaviTurnip wrote: 3 years ago And to think, Zygl and I have to play all these levels on the community stream we're doing tomorrow OTL
you may beat the levels eventually but they are not the only beast
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by RedMageSusie »

That is the best response. This thread has already peaked
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by LunarRainbowShyGuy »

Well, here we have some levels that are bad on purpose. Obviously these are meant to poke fun at bad levels, but unfortunately that doesn't change the fact that they're bad levels themselves. If they were at least the fun kind of bad I could at least laugh at them and move on, but unfortunately, while there are little bits like that, they're marred by parts that are the not fun kind of bad.

- Level Comments -

Hell: I actually made it all the way to the survival room without using cheats, but that was only after getting really lucky at a part earlier on, and after hitting that brick block and dying I decided to just turn on invincibility. Jumping on the paratroopas at the beginning was actually fun, but the warp at the end is some nonsense. Fortunately, after having trouble with the warps in the previous level I was prepared for weird warps that don't make sense, so that didn't give me too much trouble. The waiting room was kind of funny the first time, but it quickly got pretty tedious after the first time (and even if you could get through most of this level on your first try, the trap after the door basically guarantees that you have to go through it at least twice), which was a big factor in me just turning on invincibility in the end.

Now for the part that raocow just mercilessly cheated through, which I actually found wasn't too difficult except for one part. The wall of flying spinys was intimidating, but it's actually pretty easy to jump over them and get to the bone platform where the magikoopa starts at, at which point you simply have to wait for said magikoopa to appear at the right spot so that you can bounce on the magic to get up to the donut blocks. After that is this setup with three plants and a sledge bro, which I tried to sit and wait for things to line up, but ultimately it just felt luck based whether I could make it through or not. I did get lucky enough to make it on my third try, and after that everything up to the door is fairly easy, but that third try was already going to be my last try before turning on invincibility, and seeing what was to come basically did the opposite of making me change my mind.

This survival room actually confused me with the fact that there's no indication that it is a survival room, so I was bouncing on the podoboos trying to check every surface to see if there was some kind of hidden pipe somewhere. I checked the floor and the walls, and was in the process of checking the ceiling when the door finally appeared. Knowing this is a survival room, if it was just on its own I feel like it might be kind of interesting to plan a safe route through everything, but there's no way I'm going to run through the rest of this level every time I die just to do that.

Trash Level: This level certainly lives up to its name. I personally thought everything was decently fine up until the boss. The first thing I noticed was that Mario has a hard time jumping into the pipes when he's small (it's technically possible, but you need to get a full running start, and this is tedious enough without having to do that), and so I turned off instant restart so I could return to the hub and switch to Luigi. In the end though I ended up beating the boss without getting hit anyway, mostly because mother brain takes so many hits that you kind of need to figure out a consistent way to avoid getting hit if you want a chance of winning. Unfortunately the safe strategy I came up with involved a lot of waiting around, so it wasn't exactly fun.

-end of level comments -

After playing these levels I kind of wanted to keep playing for a bit so I could play some actually good levels, until realizing that there's no way there will be anything of the quality I'm hoping for down here in the bottom tier of levels.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by AUS »

Kapus wrote: 3 years ago the judge comments are the most entertaining part so far
i wish they werent part of the game at all but go off lmao
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Grounder »

AUS wrote: 3 years ago i wish they werent part of the game at all but go off lmao
Literally just don't look at them. Even further, use the "unlock everything" option in the options menu and you can play the levels in any order you want.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by AUS »

Grounder wrote: 3 years ago
AUS wrote: 3 years ago i wish they werent part of the game at all but go off lmao
Literally just don't look at them. Even further, use the "unlock everything" option in the options menu and you can play the levels in any order you want.
yeah so they're still part of the artpiece that is the game itself and i think they make them worse (see the video i made)
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Grounder »

AUS wrote: 3 years ago
Grounder wrote: 3 years ago
AUS wrote: 3 years ago i wish they werent part of the game at all but go off lmao
Literally just don't look at them. Even further, use the "unlock everything" option in the options menu and you can play the levels in any order you want.
yeah so they're still part of the artpiece that is the game itself and i think they make them worse (see the video i made)
That doesn't invalidate my argument at all.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Shard1697 »

my opinion on bad on purpose levels has changed exactly 0%
Transistasis was an honest effort at least
AUS wrote: 3 years ago
Kapus wrote: 3 years ago the judge comments are the most entertaining part so far
i wish they werent part of the game at all but go off lmao
when there's something that some people want in game but other people don't want in game, often it's pretty subjective whether it should be in game

when said thing is strictly optional, you have to row upriver pretty hard to make a good case for it not existing
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by ano0maly »

watho wrote: 3 years ago this is a dumb slap fight
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by PSI Ninja »

To get a better idea of what raocow's experiencing, I decided to try these levels myself. I haven't played a SMBX game since The Invasion more than 5 years ago, so going through Transistasis as my first full-length level in a while was a rude awakening. As an inexperienced player, here are some things I noticed about the engine right away, compared to SMW: (1) It takes a long time (and a long runway) to reach P-speed. I always thought that it took forever to accelerate in SMB3 compared to SMW, but it seems even longer in SMBX. (2) Enemy hitboxes seem to be much bigger. Touching the very edge of enemy graphics can still hurt you, unlike SMW where you get a bit of leeway. This was noticeable with the Volcano Lotuses in Transistasis. (3) It's very difficult to make jumps over tall obstacles. This is probably a combination of both the long time it takes to accelerate and the stricter hitboxes. In SMW, you can sort of crest yourself over the edges of blocks and platforms, like it "rounds" you over the top. Kind of hard to explain. I had a similar issue with this when I played New Super Marisa Land.

Some of my own thoughts on the past few levels, after having played them:

151st - Transistasis: It's funny how almost immediately, raocow eschewed the line guided platform in the first section. Based on the YT comments, this was a developer-intended skip, so it's good that he picked up on that. But that makes you wonder about the other things that can be skipped, and if they were intended or not. For example, you can jump over the wall at the top of the Koopa/fireball stairs at [6:07] in the second section, avoiding the other two options shown on the screen. Also, I used an even shorter skip for the square bumpers part at [14:02], by jumping right on top of the bumper below the clouds. If these weren't intended, you gotta be careful and make sure parts of your level can't be skipped like that, which I'm learning to do as I try to make my own levels for the first time in Lunar Magic.

150th - Hell: I liked the Koopa hopping in the first section, where you have to properly manage your momentum to make the longer jumps. You don't really see momentum management like this in SMW, unless you get a running start first. And I didn't know the Podoboo room was a survival room - after checking for hidden doors and pipes, I started pressing random buttons and the door appeared after I pressed Select, so I thought that was the reason.

149th - Trash Level: I think I actually enjoyed playing Transistasis more than this one. It just never seemed to end. Lots of awkward jumps and places that were hard to get out of, especially the log/waterfall section at [16:07]. Also, you can get stuck if you fall into the space between the clear pipes at [17:26]. I had to use infinite jumps to escape. I thought that the one jump with the Sledge Bro and the Banzai Bill after the Mega Mushroom section was the hardest part of the level. Glad it wasn't just me.

On another note, as a stats person, I kind of wish there was a way to view the deaths on a per level basis. I think this was actually a feature in MaGLX2, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by kurt91 »

Cross-post from the YouTube video...

Since this is literally the "Make a GOOD Level X" contest, can we have it so submissions for future contests are required to include a video recording of the level creator playing through and beating the level being submitted without any hidden developer-only routes? That way, the judges don't have to waste everybody's time with levels that are just intended to make the player miserable?

Like, you can make a level as unfair as you want, I'm sure that somebody out there will find it enjoyable. "Good" is subjective 99% of the time. But, something like "Hell", where raocow had to turn on cheats just to figure out the first pipe, with areas intended solely to waste peoples' time with spawner spam and audio abuse, survival rooms that go on for so damned long that raocow thought that he was mistaken and it wasn't really a survival room and started looking for a hidden way out, is really pushing the "Good is subjective, so this should be a submission" thing.

Just, make sure that the designer of the level can actually complete it, so we have proof that the level is possible, and make it recorded so we know that they didn't use some sort of dev-only secret route like a lot of those Mario Maker levels.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Leet »

Why?

I'm afraid I can't get behind the assumption that a level intended to elicit negative reactions is inherently a "waste of time", should not exist, or is impossible to consider good.

I've also repeatedly (well, a few times) seen this suggestion that bad entries should be disqualified from contests, which really makes me wonder what the point of the judging is at all, if they are only supposed to be using the top half of the point scale.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Shard1697 »

That's not really even the same discussion as "should submitters also submit a video of them completing the level", to be honest. I can't really think of a reason why that shouldn't be a thing going forward.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Sugar »

I don't see why we should require level makers to upload a video of a level. Thing is, if judges would actually need such a video, it's a good evidence that a level sucks and should possibly be disqualified.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Zygl »

First of all, somebody's already suggested requiring video submissions - I forget if it was here for MaGL, on the SMBX forum or for one of our kaizo contests - and that's completely untenable because then entry is gated behind "can your computer play and record SMBX/can you rope somebody else into recording a run for you".

Second: I wholeheartedly disagree with disqualifying any level because it's "the wrong kind of bad". I disagree with the notion that anybody's time has been "wasted" in any meaningful way - Sturg is right there in the hub setting expectations for everyone who ever plays it going forward, and even the judges themselves don't exactly need to cleanly beat a level like this to write an informed opinion. So who exactly does disqualifying a level like this benefit? "Good taste"? The talkhaus' eternal lust for revenge any time somebody makes a bad level?

I say all this knowing full well I'm gonna be playing it live on Twitch in less than 12 hours, which kinda also feeds into my point: I'm looking forward to it. I'm gonna have a bad time and it's gonna be great. DQing it means people like me can't hurt ourselves on it if we want to, and doesn't really do anybody else any good. Keeping it in with a warning label is very clearly the right choice, here.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by WinterSweater »

I like that there are not many

levels with secret exits

in the contest this time.
Also the star requirements are low enough that people can skip most of the levels if they want.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by ano0maly »

Making a video to demonstrate that it's beatable sounds like a good idea at first, but logistically it's hard to implement for a contest as big as this. It's better saved for a smaller kaizo contest or something.

And I feel that this idea of disqualifying entries might have stemmed from something I've seen in SMWC, where contests are frequent - the idea that troll levels by persistent and deliberate offenders waste judges's time. But even here it seems to have some guidelines beyond just 'poor quality': levels seeking to break or cheat around the rules, or blatant edits of existing material.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Nimono »

ano0maly wrote: 3 years ago Making a video to demonstrate that it's beatable sounds like a good idea at first, but logistically it's hard to implement for a contest as big as this. It's better saved for a smaller kaizo contest or something.

And I feel that this idea of disqualifying entries might have stemmed from something I've seen in SMWC, where contests are frequent - the idea that troll levels by persistent and deliberate offenders waste judges's time. But even here it seems to have some guidelines beyond just 'poor quality': levels seeking to break or cheat around the rules, or blatant edits of existing material.
Yeah, I feel that on SMWC, it makes sense- those contests are always huge, and always get people assuming "oh I can make my level as bad and unfun as I want!" because "oh it doesn't saaaaaaay don't make kaizo~" When you have people PURPOSEFULLY gunning for "unfun and frustrating to play" each time, it makes sense, but my impression of MaGLX has always been that those kinds of levels are very few and far between (yes, I know only 3 have happened so far), and the "purposefully bad" levels tend to be shorter and/or easier- things like Mission: Proud Sky, or how Hell here clearly is around wasting your time and being janky, BUT each part is overall short. Trash Level overstays its welcome, but it's also overall kinda easy from what it looks like. It's just long.

We haven't actually seen "actually kaizo" yet in this contest, so why ban it? I dunno, I just feel like there's no real need to do that right now.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by Leet »

And you are outright encouraged to use the cheats in the menu (or given sanctioned skips in previous games), so no level's presence actually harms the others in any way. It is 100% just this, as usual
The talkhaus' eternal lust for revenge any time somebody makes a bad level?
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by camwoodstock »

ano0maly wrote: 3 years ago
watho wrote: 3 years ago this is a dumb slap fight
in a way, aren't dumb slap fights the talkhaus spirit??? maybe the real dumb slap fights were the friends we made along the way...
defs still think you can't call this a slap fight without those sticky hand toys from like 50 cent gashapons at a wal-mart tho
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Re: (MaGLX)^3 = ?

Post by Veruchai »

Youtube comments have pretty accurately described my thoughts so far; only thing to add is that I hope we get a bunch more short funny low scores.
Some of my strongest memories are of "Mission proud sky" & "Behold, There is a presentation! Deceive!"
I feel pretty optimistic about our chances at this particular moment.

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Aqualakitu wrote: 3 years ago .... You can enter to want to place well, have your level rated and appreciated. Doesn't mean that you feel let down when you're not literally first place, I don't think most people really care if they're first or not ....
From the start my best case scenario was to make a 8/10 level, place 151, and then watch the LP have 150 9/10 levels.
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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by MECHDRAGON777 »

AUS wrote: 3 years ago
MECHDRAGON777 wrote: 3 years ago I know I said this on the video comments, but as a Peach main, I actually agree with raocow on it. Double tapping jump is a bit counterintuitive at first. It took a while to learn to do that subconsciously.
also the float is totally inconsistent! sometimes double tapping somehow does allow you to stutter float. it's totally buggy feeling
The Double Hover and Double Jump glitches. To do them, you must hover for exactly 53 frames. Letting go for exactly 2 frames produces a jump, any more produces another hover.

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Re: gonna need a YTPMV of "I HATE THE PRINCESS & BOUNCING" (MaGLX3)

Post by TiKi »

PSI Ninja wrote: 3 years ago(1) It takes a long time (and a long runway) to reach P-speed. I always thought that it took forever to accelerate in SMB3 compared to SMW, but it seems even longer in SMBX.
SMBX pro tip: unlike SMB3/SMW, you can accelerate in the air. Not to P-speed levels, but if you start walking, jump and keep holding right/run, and land you'll usually reach P-speed a bit after landing. I think the game might even be coded to only let you start "running" on the ground even if you accelerate to max speed in the air. This is a HUGE sore spot for me when going back to SMW hacks where you have to actually run before hand to even do a nice long jump, let alone fly.
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