Make a Good Mega Man Level - Wily Is Not A 1-oFf f0e

[BobisOnlyBob]

p.s. did someone say robbit

robbit is love

[KobaBeach]

p.s. did someone say robbit

robbit is love

i might just say fuck it and play robbit mon dieu soon, i've already beat 1&2

dunno about geograph seal, i might give it a real shot soon too, x68k emus aren't the hardest to find and i think neo fuji and tosec have made romsets of it (most likely not full, but with a large amount)

[Dragon Fogel]

I can back up part of Cheez's assessment, the green section of Chroma Key can get ridiculous if you back up in the wrong spot and get awkward respawns.

On the plus side, the level is a great place to get bolts.

[blue_kirby]

tfw my level (Midnight Snow) was played by roacow a little over five years later :p

I actually had some issues trying to make the screens scroll horizontally, which was why they played like they were played. Looking back on this one, I felt like this one was stretched out way too long. I remember thinking "oh let's see about replacing some of these tiles with other ones" and thought of SMB2 and felt like the Kirby music was going to fit in. Also is it just me or were the weapon block barriers going to look different? I remember there was supposed to be an ice block where raocow got the E-Tank that got replaced with a far more conspicuous orange box.

Also penguins.

[Peptobislawl]

I imagine raocow woulda found it eventually but I'd like to point out there's actually a second shop in the remastered version's hub.

[camwoodstock]

oh man i'm late!!! oh golly oh jeez

the fact the extra life text says "I'm ripping you off." if you have lives disabled is hilarious i seriously hope whoever added that has a good day btw. if only it kept that text if you DID have lives enabled bc honestly lives really do just have no purpose for modern games tbh

welcome to tier 2! idk why it has this music but i do like this music a lot.

Chroma Key is. a very strange level tbh. as many people mentioned it's pretty notable as it's the only other least favorite level considering City War got totally dogpiled, so hey, it's gotta be like, Real Bad Right? well yeah, it's not too good, this is the first level of the second to worst tier, but also like... largely this level is kinda unremarkable unless you give it the chance to be as awful as it can get. as pretty much everyone mentions the enemy placement is Beyond Spammy and if you aren't careful it can get even worser and worser than even the intended spam.

the telly segment of the blue room in particular is emblematic of this entire enemy spam issue. if you are not careful it will Incinerate On Contact. and if you DO handle it well... well, you have easily the best bolt farming room in the entire game bar none. just stick near the Entire Wall of Telly Generators, toss up thunder wools, let the thunder pierce them since these are all 1-hp, pick up all the pickups, and since Thunder Wool is so cheap even just One minor energy pickup is more than enough to keep you at a profit, rinse and repeat until you make Eddie a very, very rich little fliptop.

once you get past the enemy spam though... this level kinda just, lacks an identity overall? like yeah it has the color gimmick which is kinda neat but like. overall colors of enemies isn't really enough to create a cool synergy with them. they look aesthetically pleasing, sure! but they don't really have a gameplay synergy. it all just kinda melds as a resultm since none of these enemioes are working in tandem. especially since once you get to yellow the gimmick just Gives Up Entirely due to that aforemntioned deadline. you get a bit of yellow... but it very quickly turns red... then turns orange, then turns red AGAIN, then a bit of pink??? then red, then Oh Oops Done. there's something to be said abt the deadline but there's also something to be said about how it doesn't seem like there was any real palette even with the rushed version as the amount of proper orange enemies is like, one, and for some reason we get a reddish-pink one!

Sunset Siege is a level. it exists. okay that's not TOO fair but it is very strangely designed. opening tile has a stray background tile. just the one. running joke. here's a branching path! if you go the right though you will Be Incinerated unless you jump. also you literally never have to go right anyhow so just go down really. you go down and just Have Powerup Blocks I Guess! better not go down here if you want to use special weapons otherwise you constantly run the risk of getting softlocked (well, not really, since you can just self-destruct with 2 iirc). also sometimes there's pits that are required to progress but then there's pits that look identical but if you go down them they really ARE bottomless pits??? overall it's like... it's OKAY...? it's not like a hair-tearing experience. but it's just like largely superfluous

Midnight Snow is a level that is also pretty superfluous, but honestly a bit more of the good zen kind? it deliberately has the 1-screen thing Level style, but honestly the challenges here feel Much More Designed to be those than anything in Level was. is it annoying? occasionally, but like, largely i feel like there's nothing that would be added by making some of these rooms have proper scrolling. it's when you go underground that i feel like the level goes on longer than it should, as the brick cave maze is just a lot less interesting than the aboveground segments before it. it's not BAD... but man. if the main level is superfluous but in a fun sorta zen way, this is just superfluous in a "why is this here again?" way. once you resurface it does pick up a bit but it still kinda feels a bit confused, as if it's not sure it SHOULD continue, and the enemy setups don't feel like they were designed with the 1-screen-at-a-time deal like the opening was. also boss door without a boss.

...now's a good as time to mention the story of devkit bosses. for SOME REASON the magmml1 devkit had minibosses but no NORMAL bosses, but had a boss door entity for you if you wanted to include your own bosses??? as a result magmml1's levels just kinda have A Thing where they're like "oh here's the boss! it's just an energy element bc i don't know how to program a boss". in magmml1 this wasn't a big deal since like, well, nobody else had a devkit boss, so if your boss room is just the element it's fine, but this is largely why devkit bosses are outright supplied from magmml2, and in THERE, it actually was a semi-recurrant complaint where if a level had a boss door but no boss, not even a devkit one, it'd cause questions, and i think a few stages in particular in magmml2 actually had at least one judge dock points for "why is your level named after a boss when you don't even have a devkit boss". it doesn't have any real impact as magmml1 has Very Few Levels as it is so the lack of devkit bosses isn't nearly as bad as it could be, but it is a bit silly of a story overall

[Dragon Fogel]

Also is it just me or were the weapon block barriers going to look different? I remember there was supposed to be an ice block where raocow got the E-Tank that got replaced with a far more conspicuous orange box.

They were changed for the remaster because people found it hard to tell which weapon to use.

the telly segment of the blue room in particular is emblematic of this entire enemy spam issue. if you are not careful it will Incinerate On Contact. and if you DO handle it well... well, you have easily the best bolt farming room in the entire game bar none. just stick near the Entire Wall of Telly Generators, toss up thunder wools, let the thunder pierce them since these are all 1-hp, pick up all the pickups, and since Thunder Wool is so cheap even just One minor energy pickup is more than enough to keep you at a profit, rinse and repeat until you make Eddie a very, very rich little fliptop.

Magic Card is even better, since it grabs the items for you.

[Matt is me]

idk if I'm the only one who cares or what but I guess I am gonna be the judge comments guy now, at least for this site. Someone else is on it on youtube. I guess for a few days I can commit to doing it sooner than this.

Chroma Key:

SnoruntPyro (58/100):

The idea behind this stage was super neat, and I LOVED the mixture of the included tilesets (it looked great!), but the stage in general just didn't seem too terribly fun? Parts of it really felt like enemy spam, and while there were a couple neat things (like using the Hot Dog as a stage obstacle), it felt like enemies were kinda just slapped down, especially in the section with the snake miniboss.

Cheez8 (33/100):

There's a right way and a wrong way even for something like enemy spam. The right way in this case is to break up a constant stream of enemies with well-placed breathers- that way the game doesn't respawn, oh, say... a pair of ballistic green clowns every time the player backs away from anything. I at least loved the look of the first half, but then the level enters the jungle and loses what little focus it had.

Duvi0 (16/100):

Enemy spam is fun, right, guys?

Mick Galbani / Blackmore Darkwing (50/100):

This is a unique concept! I didn't quite expect this sort of level, and it worked decently well... conceptually. However, there are definitely some issues with the level design itself. First is the absolutely insane Telly spam, if you wait for much longer than 3 seconds that room becomes basically unmanagable. The Power Massler near the end also kind of bugged me since it was almost impossible to no damage without weapons. I managed to work around these issues, but not everyone will, creating a bit of a problem with this level. Final Comment: Beyond the Time is a good song.

MrKyurem says (36/100):

The only part of this level I found interesting was the theming. The rest of the level was usually either rather dull, swamped with enemies that really didn’t need to be there, or in some cases, a mixture of both.

Sunset Siege:

SnoruntPyro (49/100):

I liked the setting and the music of the level, and some of the things presented were nice (like the usage of all the barriers), but the whole level just felt kinda....there. Like it kinda lacked an identity? It felt like just some rooms with enemies and then the end goal. Also you can get shunted in a wall via a screen transition at one point :V

Cheez8 (27/100):

Rather sparse, wasn't it? The overall idea was nice, but it would have been better served by having some more varied terrain, and maybe some mobile enemies to give it that action-y vibe that it lacks.

Duvi0 (26/100):

I can't see what's so sunset or siege about this level. It's kind of a nothing level.

Mick Galbani / Blackmore Darkwing (50/100):

This was definitely a level, no doubt about that. I actually quite liked the music choice here, and you did a fairly decent job of using the resources that you were given. Some folks may be annoyed by the barrier abuse, but I actually found it rather fitting, considering its supposed to be a siege.

MrKyurem (37/100):

This level doesn't exactly seem to know what it wants to be - only in the interior section does it get some sort of coherent theme, and even then it's somewhat questionable as to what you're setting out to achieve. Every screen it seems like something new is being thrown at me. The screen transitions seem a bit broke, too - because the upper path on the junction simply doesn't join up right, I cannot take it without death, so I'm only rating based on the bottom path - which has forced usage of every weapon - ideally, I think weapons should only have forced usage for secret or alternate paths, and it should only be 1 or 2 weapons.

Midnight Snow:

SnoruntPyro (58/100):

The level looked great, and the music was really relaxing. I liked the whole mini-challenge style of the level, but I feel because of this the level felt a bit unfocused? The whole level basically just felt like rooms with enemies, not much special about it.

Cheez8 (42/100):

Most of the level was straightforward to a fault. The inside portion was nice though- while the split paths didn't really do much for the level, it was nice to have more varied terrain. Definite points for presentation though! Since it looked as nice as it did, it felt peaceful, not boring.

Duvi0 (53/100):

This was a cute li'l level! If it had cheeks, I would kiss them.

Mick Galbani / Blackmore Darkwing (23/100):

This level... is. That's it, that's all I really have to say about it. Its there. some of the graphics and general layout make me think of SMB2, but other than that and the slightly odd music, I can't say much about this level.

MrKyurem (39/100):

This level seems a bit too reliant on enemy challenges - apart from enemies, not much is really going on. The choice of only using single screens is questionable, too, as it can cause the player to be unprepared for what is coming - something that I cannot tell if you either didn't notice, or tried to exploit, without realising how it would affect the player. The other-fun factor on this is significantly less than the rest because it appears that, if you die in the second half of the stage, you fail to respawn, along with the fact that I am taking the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that there are meant to be some fluent scrolls.

[KobaBeach]

Watching monke's level, Mega Man level design seems interesting to construct, but I really don't like contest formats in general in terms of art, so the chances of me entering a MaGMML is zero to none, the pressure of deadlines is too much and the concept of rankings gives me performance anxiety even when its just a formality

I'd look for Japanese Mega Man romhacking tutorials but I don't know where to start and I'm already doing mario shit.
6502 isn't too different from 65c816 outside of certain features not existing so coding stuff wouldn't be too hard if i could debug the original game, just no real specialized insertion tools.

"Public Domain Character baby!" I wish I could use this on a Mario World boss

[camwoodstock]

i woke up to my sister being like "mom put plastic eggs in our yard i think" and it turns out she didn't even actually do it and nobody in our house knows who did it. it's not easter yet over here. i don't think anything today can surprise me

oh hey we're wrapping up tier 2 today! ...and starting tier 3. kinda hilariously enough magmml1 is already a short game compared to magmml2 but like. magmml1 remastered added a bunch of bonus content instead... so as a result i am going to place a bet Now. i am expecting the episode where we play the top entry to be before the halfway point of this lp. is that a testament to how hilariously extra magmml is? yeah. but am i complaining? HELL NO

Sky Ziggurat is a kinda interesting level that i do enjoy! it's kinda got a misleading name tho. i think the IDEA is that it's like, a level literally in construction, hence there's a ton of mets and picket men around. and i think it's really cool! it largely limits itself to mega man 1 enemies and i feel like it works in this case. it doesn't have TOO much lasting power admittedly but it's also a level i feel kinda deserved a bit better than it got.

anyhow, Tier 2 Boss time! Public Domain Character Time, BABEYYY!!! if memory serves me right this fight is VASTLY different from his fight in unlimited but Boy Howdy is it still chaotic as hell! if anything this is probably even MORE chaotic than his "canon" fight. it's real cool though! a lot more learnable too! ...i do wonder if the dude behind unlimited had tried actually pushing yoku man into the public domain. i think that'd be really funny

Wily Combo is what you can purchase at McWily's for 5.99. pretty much that's the legacy here. i kid but like yeah this level having a strange name that inspired an entire tier in magmml2's theme is kinda just What People Remember. it's not like a BAD level, but also it's just kind of a recreation of various wily areas... without really. adding much else to it? sure there's some different enemies courtesy of the "proper" enemies not existing in the engine magmm1 used but they're largely inconsequential with the exception of the footholder room for mm1 wily 1 turning into top platformers and those little rising platform platforms. hilariously you get one of the minibosses replacing an actual boss, sorta like as a representation of what i was talking abt earlier.

also the judge comments ARE on other platforms! namely the magmml wiki--yes, it exists!

[TaviTurnip]

What's wrong with DKL music :(

[Duker]

also the judge comments ARE on other platforms! namely the magmml wiki--yes, it exists!

Pretty sure he misspoke and meant to say "fun facts", wouldn't make sense otherwise when he right before said that judge comments are everywhere.

[Kilgamayan]

"healthy head is good to have"

[MonkeyShrapnel]

What's wrong with DKL music :(

That's what I'm saying

[Matt is me]

Comments, this time about 12 hours earlier than last time!

Sky Ziggurat:

SnoruntPyro (46/100):

While it wasn't very visually impressive and the music was...not that good, the level in general did present some neat bullet hell-ish challenges. All of the challenges allowed you to react if your reflexes were fast enough, which was really nice. Some of the rooms felt a bit spammy though, especially the ones with the Big Eyes.

Cheez8 (80/100):

This was a super fun and solid level. Most of the challenges felt reasonable (though a couple "Think fast!" Mettaurs in front of pits pushed the limits.) There were plenty of refills lying around to make up for the challenge too.

Duvi0 (42/100):

I liked the split-path stuff, but the graphics were blad, the music was bleh, it didn't really do anything interesting, and bluh.

Mick Galbani / Blackmore Darkwing (26/100):

Enemy spam is not how you do level design. Like...I'm sorry, but a number of these really did feel like they were all just thrown into wherever looked good and then left at that. Beyond that, there's really nothing that fancy about this place, it doesn't really do anything beyond throw wave after wave of enemy at you. I can tell this was a level tested with the weapons, but quite frankly, if you can't do this without Weapon Tanks or lucky weapon drops, there's a problem. At least the lives and E-Tanks were decently generous.

MrKyurem (40/100):

The level at many times seemed to expect me to know what was coming, and at times, it was flat out unfair - with no prior introduction to the concept, it threw me into a room with a Big Eye and 3 of those hammer-throwing enemies from Guts Man's stage, which essentially required weapon usage. Powerups seemed to be given out like free candy at times - without any sort of intention, I stumbled upon a room with an E tank, a W tank, an extra life, a large health capsule and a large weapon capsule. Its challenges, while significantly harder than they should be, appear to have at least some form of thought behind them from time to time, however. One touch this stage had which I liked was that the colour of the Suzies told you which direction they travelled in - while there wasn't really any sections this was useful in, it was a nice touch.

Wily Combo:

SnoruntPyro (72/100):

It looked great, it had great music, the idea behind it was great, overall a very solid level! Some of the sections, though, were more difficult than they probably should have been due to mechanical differences of the engine, such as the Rush Jet section. Some of the redesigns were neat though, I especially liked the redesign of the Magnet Beam room!

Cheez8 (31/100):

Sorry, but I believe with at least most of my heart that there are much better stages to lovingly recreate than MM1 Wily 1. That room with the firebar jumps just isn't fun at all. At least Rush fits down in there now... Well, aside from that, the graphics really didn't work well. I found it hard to tell real walls from background walls in certain areas, and consider myself lucky to be so familiar with the sources already.

Duvi0 (60/100):

I would order a Wily Combo from Wendy's.

Mick Galbani / Blackmore Darkwing (47/100):

Well, this definitely felt like a Wily stage. The first time I tackled this level, I was not in top form, so I died a lot and just got generally really frustrated. Second time through though I absolutely aced this place. Really not a bad level, but it takes some getting used to for sure. Docking graphics a little though since I found myself having to strain my eyes to play the stage when I first entered it. Contrast could use a bit of a boost.

MrKyurem (32/100):

While the idea of a Wily mashup was interesting, it seems that the design aspects each Wily stage has had was forgotten in an attempt to reap nostalgia points. Forced weapon usage was kept, but clever enemy-based challenges were removed. The boss room was also a huge cockblock - the boss corridor has no background, and the room layout is almost identical to the MM1 Yellow Devil room, only for a Snakey to be waiting at the room. Seems a bit cruel.

[Grounder]

I feel like level recreations should be disqualified as a matter of course for contests like this.

[snoruntpyro]

I feel like level recreations should be disqualified as a matter of course for contests like this.

In the next contest there's a level that does the same thing but much more blatant and it caused a rule against that exact thing to be added for future contests lol

[camwoodstock]

I feel like level recreations should be disqualified as a matter of course for contests like this.

In the next contest there's a level that does the same thing but much more blatant and it caused a rule against that exact thing to be added for future contests lol

what do you MEAN "pharaoh man's level with 2 extra enemies and without pharaoh man in the boss room" isn't an original level /j

[KobaBeach]

wet tiger you say

[Grounder]

im gonna say it

maze of death is a short game, not a level

and i really hated it in the original, lives version

[Matt is me]

Judge comments!

Napalm Forest And Caves:

SnoruntPyro (67/100):

I can see you, erm, were...inspired by the sample Blyka's Engine stage. That being said though, I think this level did a really good job of making itself feel new! It's nice to see the Plant Man platforms get some love, and I like how you incorporated Plant Man, Bubble Man and Splash Woman into the stage's design. And having alternate paths was super neat! I'm also a fan of the spike drop with falling platforms, it's an interesting take on a spike drop. I can't believe I just said that.

Cheez8 (61/100):

I like the idea at work here. To explore the area around a stage, rather than the one set path... That was pretty cool, and Napalm Man's stage was a great choice for it. I'm less enthusiastic about the added content- maybe it was just me, but the new parts seemed fairly punishing for what was originally a Robot Master stage, both in terms of death spikes and enemy choices.

Duvi0 (40/100):

I'm sorry, what did I just play? I forgot immediately after playing.

Mick Galbani / Blackmore Darkwing (53/100):

It's an expansion of Napalm Man's level, and actually a rather well-designed one, with a number of interesting paths and multiple routes to pick from. That being said, I still have a few gripes. One of the sets of spikes in the underwater section behind the Solar Blaze wall, down the ladder after the first section, was hidden behind complete black for some reason. Also, the level itself runs really, really long, which is probably my biggest gripe with this. There's a definite sweet spot for level length in these games, and this does not hit that sweet spot at all. It's a good level overall, but its still really long

MrKyurem (40/100):

The parts that weren't just copy+paste Napalm Man were fairly decent, although they occasionally used a few too many enemies. Not much to say about this really, as it is, for the most part, just a slight rehash of Napalm Man's stage.

Hard to see land:

SnoruntPyro (61/100):

The vertical top section was a super neat idea, but thanks to a combination of the jankiness of the vertical scrolling and my programming incompetence with the tops it became a bit on the 'eh' side. The rest of the level was...okay? It was just 'fine' in my book, except for the end with the solid colors, ow that hurt my eyes.

Cheez8 (62/100):

I don't really see what's hard to see about this place. Is that the joke...? How meta. It's interesting seeing this basically be a pure platforming stage in an engine that rarely deals in them. Many enemies seemed like an afterthought until I realized that. Makes it hard to judge, but for a different kind of challenge, it was fun enough.

Duvi0 (32/100):

I hated this level... until the second half. What the hell is with the first couple screens, dude?!

Mick Galbani / Blackmore Darkwing (58/100):

This was a fairly interesting level. You had a definite concept in the level graphics, and the level makes fairly good use of various platform types. Generally speaking I can't complain. That being said, the sudden bright colors right at the end of the level is something I'm going to have to dock you for, that was quite hard on the eyes. I prefer needing something being hard to see in terms of squinting, not its hard to see because its too freaking brihgt.

MrKyurem (49/100):

I am glad that this level didn't live up to its name (until the boss room, that is) - despite some rather easy-to-see flaws, like some unfair portions of the level (crystal section comes to mind), this level had some neat ideas, including the vertical scrolling section.

[Peptobislawl]

im gonna say it

maze of death is a short game, not a level

and i really hated it in the original, lives version

Oh god yeah game overing on a level like that was a nightmare that I lived several times. Took a lot of help from the Quickining's first screen for me to get through.

[Nimono]

raocow's chapter title for the start of thge video makes me go "NOOOOO"


not the superman! XD


maze of death is pretty cool with infinite lives!

[Matt is me]

Comments! This one seems quite polarizing.

Maze Of Death:

SnoruntPyro (93/100):

Wow. What an absolutely fantastic level. With a few exceptions (the room with like 5 cannon joes), you can tell that tons of love and care was put into this level, and the level itself is EXTREMELY creative and unique. I LOVE how you used the barriers as ways to connect the whole maze. There were also some REALLY creative rooms built around manipulating your special weapons, and the Black Hole Bomb was definitely used very well here. And I really liked the whole aspect of the stage where you had to destroy the barriers leading to the exit, that was super neat!! Overall an incredibly fun and creative level!

Cheez8 (89/100):

Now that was fun! The exploration aspect was actually handled really well, especially with all the permanent shortcuts for backtracking. It was great fun figuring out how to approach each challenge too, and personally, I love the way this stage was designed with copious weapon use in mind. ...Though I can't say I ever figured out the last room.

Duvi0 (78/100):

This feels like a Wily level from a really, REALLY good MegaMan fanhack... except for the last room. The last room is kind of garbage.

Mick Galbani / Blackmore Darkwing (30/100):

Agh... Wow... this level is really brutal, like, really really really brutal. I honestly will admit that my heart sank when I first saw there were Force Beams in here, and then it just kept going. This is easily the single most brutal level in here, and its... I really didn't enjoy it, I really truly didn't. It felt frustrating to get through, like some kind of slog, especially since there was no way to guarantee that you didn't just waste a ton of energy on a dead end. Also took entirely too long to pull off.

MrKyurem (29/100):

It seems you've spent so long thinking about whether you could, you didn't stop to think if you should. Each screen seemed to completely neglect both what was in the screen before it and what the player was prepared for, and with every death, it seemed I made no progress. Eventually, I just looked at the playthrough you posted on Youtube, and it honestly made me somewhat glad I chose to give up, as I would have only been more disappointed at the boss, so to speak.

[Dragon Fogel]

I think you might be able to grab 1-Ups with Magic Card? Seems worth trying in a situation like the one you were in a couple of times when there was a nearby 1-Up to get.

Then again, it's very easy to get Es either from the shop or just revisiting levels so it's not like using them up is a big deal.