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Donkey Kong 64 - I heard a whistle, so something cartoony and stupid's gonna happen... Oh, something stupid is happening

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - wheel of fortune

Post by Rixithechao »

Posted my thoughts on this stuff as a youtube comment on video 9.
1 week ago in the youtube comment section wrote: Rixithechao
25:28 This got me thinking about the free-switching hack that folks have brought up a few times and how it breaks that aspect of the game's design. What if, instead of changing kongs at the press of a button, the player could warp back to the last kong barrel they used? Of course, that doesn't cover the issue of having to revisit very out-of-the-way locations multiple times to get all the different colors of collectibles...

The only other approaches I can think of would be either disabling free-switching in certain areas (ehhh) or having all kongs present in the level and then preserving their positions when you switch. Granted, that latter solution seems like fairly unexplored territory in collectathons; the closest I can think of is Banjo Tooie with Mumbo and the split pads, but even then those require the other characters stay put until you return to them. Other games with character switching tend to have formations (Sonic Heroes, Zelda Four Swords Adventures), make the other playable characters be AI helpers that stick close when you're not controlling them (Lego games, DKC trilogy), relegate other playable characters to specific areas (Spyro 3), or take this game's approach and limit where you can switch (Sly Cooper series).

Dangit, now I kinda want to see some kind of spiritual successor to DK64 designed around this system. With good fast travel mechanics for getting around a world quickly you could have some neat puzzles designed around having like, 2 or 3 characters in different places/doing different things at once. And it'd be a very co-op multiplayer-friendly core mechanic to boot!
But yeah, the core of a game doesn't need to be platforming or combat. Setting aside Banjo-Kazooie and the collectathon subgenre, to me DK64 seems like it wants to be more of a traditional adventure game; the pillars of that genre (at least, before Telltale) are exploration, puzzles, and key-and-lock design, and adventure games lived and died based on the quality of those things and their overall flavor. And on that front... this game certainly has the flavor, but it's an extremely mixed bag at best in the other areas, both in execution and underlying design.

I don't think DK64 needs to be substantially reworked to salvage it. That would still make for a better game, but even just adding some QoL features/mechanics, a lot of tweaks to the level design (the majority of them being better color-coded collectible grouping), polishing up the platforming and overall game feel, and scrapping some minigames in favor of just giving the player the golden bananas would address a lot of its' major problems.
Dragon Fogel wrote: 3 years ago I feel like the key step to making that work would be to make the characters play more differently. If you're essentially playing five games at once, it will feel less monotonous if they're five different games rather than five mild variants on the same game.

Not that an approach like that doesn't have risks, but I think even a failed attempt at it would be more interesting.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - wheel of fortune

Post by Grounder »

Rixithechao wrote: 3 years agoscrapping some minigames in favor of just giving the player the golden bananas would address a lot of its' major problems.
Allow me to reverse that. I feel as though instead cutting the minigames, one way to help would be to remove most of the bananas just sort of hanging around for no good reason.

Not that the minigames are necessarily great, but it at least feels as though you've done something once you clear one.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - wheel of fortune

Post by Rixithechao »

Grounder wrote: 3 years ago
Rixithechao wrote: 3 years agoscrapping some minigames in favor of just giving the player the golden bananas would address a lot of its' major problems.
Allow me to reverse that. I feel as though instead cutting the minigames, one way to help would be to remove most of the bananas just sort of hanging around for no good reason.

Not that the minigames are necessarily great, but it at least feels as though you've done something once you clear one.
Please don't take that last part of the sentence out of context, dropping the minigames alone would not be enough.

But you're right about the bananas being out in the middle of nowhere (hence why I specified a lot of level design tweaks like "better groupings of the color-coded collectibles"), and the minigames themselves can be salvaged as well. Like, hitbox tweaks, reduced coin requirements in the races, etc would help with those tremendously. I just think that getting to some of the minigame barrels is enough of a process already to warrant rewarding the player with a golden banana.

EDIT:
Just realized you probably mean the golden bananas hanging around for no reason. But yeah, the point stands, the game could benefit from redistribution of the minigames so the amount of effort/trouble each golden bananas is to get is more balanced.
Last edited by Rixithechao 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - wheel of fortune

Post by Grounder »

Rixithechao wrote: 3 years ago
Grounder wrote: 3 years ago
Rixithechao wrote: 3 years agoscrapping some minigames in favor of just giving the player the golden bananas would address a lot of its' major problems.
Allow me to reverse that. I feel as though instead cutting the minigames, one way to help would be to remove most of the bananas just sort of hanging around for no good reason.

Not that the minigames are necessarily great, but it at least feels as though you've done something once you clear one.
Please don't take that last part of the sentence out of context, dropping the minigames alone would not be enough.

But you're right about the bananas being out in the middle of nowhere (hence why I specified a lot of level design tweaks like "better groupings of the color-coded collectibles"), and the minigames themselves can be salvaged as well. Like, hitbox tweaks, reduced coin requirements in the races, etc would help with those tremendously. I just think that getting to some of the minigame barrels is enough of a process already to warrant rewarding the player with a golden banana.
Fair enough.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - wheel of fortune

Post by cheez8 »

Dragon Fogel wrote: 3 years ago I feel like the key step to making that work would be to make the characters play more differently. If you're essentially playing five games at once, it will feel less monotonous if they're five different games rather than five mild variants on the same game.
I've put some thought into it in the past and this is definitely one of the big ones. For all of the upgrades each Kong gets, the only Kongs with unique gameplay are Tiny for her hair twirl, Lanky for climbing slopes (kinda sorta) and Diddy for being able to explore large areas on his jetpack, and even then only when the chance arises. Which, for what is essentially flight, hey, that's fair. But the rest of the upgrades are so location-specific that they've managed to make turning invincible a responsibility, rather than a privilege. Of all things.

Honestly, they do alright with what's there. Jungle Japes was quite good on the whole, and other worlds later on are just as good. We'll see proof that it can work even as it is. It's just that... right now, the level design is gonna be baffling at best.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - wheel of fortune

Post by The Doctor »

Rixithechao wrote: 3 years agoDangit, now I kinda want to see some kind of spiritual successor to DK64 designed around this system. With good fast travel mechanics for getting around a world quickly you could have some neat puzzles designed around having like, 2 or 3 characters in different places/doing different things at once. And it'd be a very co-op multiplayer-friendly core mechanic to boot!
So a Lost Vikings game, but as a 3D Platformer? Yeah, that could definitely be fun.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - wheel of fortune

Post by Petzi »

Grounder wrote: 3 years ago Allow me to reverse that. I feel as though instead cutting the minigames, one way to help would be to remove most of the bananas just sort of hanging around for no good reason.

Not that the minigames are necessarily great, but it at least feels as though you've done something once you clear one.
That's just the thing, it seems like the game could be vastly improved by simply removing most of the content, because most of it feels like a chore.

J. J. W. Mezun wrote: 3 years ago These games are called “collectathons” for a reason: their central mechanic is collecting things.

Doing repetitive tasks is hardly unique to DK64: RPGs have grinding random encounters, Minecraft has crafting, Animal Crossing has way too many tedious, repetitive tasks to count them all, like catching fish, bugs, fossils, art, &… other fish, but with your hands. You know, I actually think Animal Crossing should take that Guinness most collectibles award from DK64, as it almost certainly has mo’.
I find it hard to consider "collecting things" a central game mechanic, because a central game mechanic usually gives rise to challenging decisions, while DK64's collectables are just lying around, they don't give you any interesting choices. It feels like the collectables are used as a crutch, to hide the fact that if you took them away, there would be very little game left. Instead of one ultra-polished central theme, it has dozens of half-baked ideas.

Animal Crossing has tons of things to collect, but I've never heard it called a collectathon, and I'd argue that collecting stuff isn't really the point. Animal Crossing's central theme is to simulate living in a town, and the entire game is based around that, every element serves to enhance that experience. You're not collecting bugs for no reason, you're donating them to the museum, to improve your town! Similarly, RPGs have a lot of story while Minecraft has blocks to build with.

Anyway, DK64 is exactly the kind of game I'd rather watch raocow play through than replay myself ^.^'
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - wheel of fortune

Post by Paragraph »

Some people have already mentioned that the Kongs should play more differently and therefore their upgrades should be more satisfying, and I think that's key. Lanky should be fast in the handstand (like the Talon Trot...), not just with a barrel. Chunky's punch should be actually useful in combat. You could put more barrels and rocks around for him to throw at enemies. Diddy should be able to jump higher than the others without a pad. Tiny can already twirl, and Donkey

uh

anyway, then you could in fact design exploration puzzles where you're required to switch for progress, not because there's bananas of a certain color here. Kong-only areas are not a "huh this is a Lanky room because erm he needed a fifth banana???" thing, but rather unique challenges designed around something only they can do. Hell, I got nothing for donkey above, make him be the only one with a gun.

Ultimately, making golden bananas collectible only by a certain kong is dumb. It's way better to have one high up where Diddy probably has the easiest time, but with a huuuge twirl from an even higher (but faraway place) Tiny can also get it and it feels awesome. Or you have a room full of enemies Donkey is supposed to shoot but you can grenade them too. Make the player feel clever.

Color-coded bananas can stay to suggest which Kong to use, but they should still be collectible by anyone.


The focus would therefore be on mini-puzzles to figure out who to use for any given situation, with a lot of freedom e.g. for combat (you shouldn't need Chunky), platforming challenges and exploration. The selling point over Banjo-Kazooie is the five distinct playstyles. You can keep the minigames I guess but again, there's no reason why Donkey has to drive the boat and Diddy has to ride the minecart. I've watching a 101% speedrun on the side and there's already zero issue for Chunky instead of

Lanky

fighting the

Gloomy Galleon boss

.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - wheel of fortune

Post by Nimono »

Paragraph wrote: 3 years ago I've watching a 101% speedrun on the side and there's already zero issue for Chunky instead of

Lanky

fighting the

Gloomy Galleon boss

.

This applies to basically every boss, too. DK can beat Mad Jack, but it's much, much harder than with Tiny, so that's understandable why it's Tiny there, and Dogadon 2 in Fungi Forest is explicitly built to take advantage of Chunky's damage output to beat it, but no other bosses take advantage of anyone's special skills, so they can all reasonably be beaten with ANYONE. It makes you question why anything is locked to a specific Kong.

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by Zarcyne1 »

There it is, everyone's favorite minigame to say how bad it is, and raocow just kinda does it. Beaver Bother is just kind of not well designed. I believe that the beavers have an rng chance to determine if they fall in the hole or not. If you run straight at them, they will run off to the side, so you have to circle around them instead. Once you get it it works alright, but even then if you are unlucky you can still fail.

In the Chunky fight at the end, I heard that Mad Jack was supposed to be there instead of the toy golem, but he got promoted to boss fight, so good for him. And yeah, that fight feels real bad.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by Nimono »

Zarcyne1 wrote: 3 years ago There it is, everyone's favorite minigame to say how bad it is, and raocow just kinda does it.
It actually isn't the one we like to complain about... >w>

It's the later versions that task you with herding 15 into the hole that we complain of.

Also on N64 the Gnawties REALLY don't want to fall in the hole for some reason; you can see raocow struggle with that at times. I'm told that on Wii U, since the game runs faster, the Gnawties fall in the hole much easier, so I suspect that the issue is that Beaver Bother might be a lower framerate than the game is expected to run at, and thus when going to the hole, the Gnawties see "Oh, I'm about to move into a spot above the hole, but NOT where I need to fall in" or "Oh, I'm passing over the hole entirely in one step!" and thus fail to fall in. I'm...not entirely sure, though. I don't have the code to look at. :P


At the same time, it could also easily be there's no differences in gameplay there, and the people finding it easier are having subjective experiences due to time and their own skill being increased.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by cheez8 »

So yeah there's Beaver Bother!

The thing with that minigame is

the beavers act like actual creatures, rather than game constructs. That is to say, they understand that falling down a scary pit is a bad thing, and so they won't knowingly run straight into it (in much the same way you or I wouldn't jump off of a sheer cliff to escape a mountain lion.) Thus, beavers typically only fall in if 1) they're running along the side of the hole and they slip in, or 2) they're near the hole but not being chased and don't feel in danger, and you suddenly scare one so that it bolts and falls into the pit out of reflex.

Not that I'm defending the game, they made a pretty poor decision there, but there is a logic and a method to it and it is possible to know what you're doing. And hey, I'm sure somebody else out there noticed this too, right? Right?

...I may have played DK64 too much as a kid, yes.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by BobisOnlyBob »

There's a free clone of Beaver Bother available here on Steam based on the Donkey Kong 64 Nightmare Stream by hbomberguy and pals.
Remember: DK says trans rights, ok? :trans_pride:
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by MonkeyShrapnel »

BobisOnlyBob wrote: 3 years ago There's a free clone of Beaver Bother available here on Steam based on the Donkey Kong 64 Nightmare Stream by hbomberguy and pals.
Remember: DK says trans rights, ok? :trans_pride:
How have I never seen this before, instant download
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by J. J. W. Mezun »

I almost wish after raocow’s 1st victory attempt in the race the other car said, “No fair, no cheating. Try again without cheating” & refused to give the golden banana.

raocow, I think you only have trouble beating the crown match when using Donkey “watch me swing my feet all round” Kong.
Petzi wrote: 3 years ago I find it hard to consider "collecting things" a central game mechanic, because a central game mechanic usually gives rise to challenging decisions.
I mean, it literally is, tho, since they have a genre called “collectathon” & there are people who love collecting as much money & stuff as they can get, e’en if it takes li’l effort — in games & in real life. That said, collectathons’ other main focus is exploration, & I think this leads to the key problem with DK64: its levels are lame. I actually want to take back my praise o’ “Frantic Factory”, as I forgot how much o’ it is isolated rooms useful for only 1 Kong & focusing on what is the equivalent o’ playing some crappy free mobile game for a minute. I can’t believe they had 2 “beat all the enemies” rooms in the same level.

Also, I disagree that challenge is a necessary component o’ a game: Mario Paint is a beloved game, but has no challenge to it, excluding the fly-swatting game. I think you could have an interesting open-world collectathon without much challenge, so long as the levels you traverse are interesting & fun to explore. DK64 are just, to a large extent, not, & I would argue that a lot o’ its attempts to add “challenge” in the form o’ its minigames only worsens that, as it gets in the way o’ exploration. I mean, if I wanted to play a minigame, I’d probably play a game that focuses on minigames, not a game in a different genre, much as if I wanted to play a kart racing game I’d play Mario Kart, not play a platformer & hope a mediocre kart racing minigame shows up.
Petzi wrote: 3 years ago Animal Crossing has tons of things to collect, but I've never heard it called a collectathon, and I'd argue that collecting stuff isn't really the point. Animal Crossing's central theme is to simulate living in a town, and the entire game is based around that, every element serves to enhance that experience. You're not collecting bugs for no reason, you're donating them to the museum, to improve your town! Similarly, RPGs have a lot of story while Minecraft has blocks to build with.
¿How do any o’ these things give rise to challenging decisions, specially having a lot o’ story, tho?

I dunno, while I agree that DK64 can be tedious & is badly designed, I’d still take having to manually change my Kong any day o’er constantly rebuilding my rods & fish bait while catching 200+ fish just to catch the 1 rare fish I don’t have or fighting imps every 8 steps I take. & in DK64’s defense, ’twas the 1st to go too far & most collectathons don’t go too far with the tediousness, while RPGs still seem to do that latter more oft than not.

Also, I think there are lots o’ games that aren’t popularly called “collectathons” that are essentially collectathons. For instance, I’m pretty sure the only reason I like Super Smash Bros. & literally no other fighting game is ’cause it’s essentially a collectathon fighting game.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by SpoonyBardOL »

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but is anyone else distracted by the fact that Donkey and Diddy have much more high fidelity profile pics in the menus, but the other three newer Kongs just have static images of their N64 model faces?
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by PSI Ninja »

Finally, after alluding to it so much in the DKC/DKL playthroughs, raocow gets to play Beaver Bother. This minigame never really gave me too much trouble, or at least I didn't really mind it, especially since I had dealt with games that had more difficult herding tasks beforehand (that synapse dexterity puzzle in The Lost Mind of Dr. Brain, if anyone remembers that). The method I used was to get on one side of the beavers, and gradually "spiral" them towards the hole in the center, which raocow was able to do for some of them. The beavers just don't seem to want to fall into the hole when approaching it head-on.
Nimono wrote: 3 years ago What would you say the central mechanic of Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie is? They're also about the exploration to Collect so you can get other powerups to Collect More, to ultimately beat the witch. I can't really think of anything they specifically have that I'd call the CENTRAL mechanic to tie the game together.
I think that Banjo-Kazooie did have an appreciable amount of platforming to supplement the collect-a-thon aspect, compared to the more rompy worlds we've seen in DK64 so far. This may have been a consequence of always having the complete moveset available to your character, rather than having the special moves split amongst the Kongs. However, it also had those highly situational ability pads. For Banjo-Tooie, what distinguished it from the other 3D platformers was its emphasis on backtracking, and the interconnectedness of its worlds. BT also seemed to have a lot of point-based minigames, especially those involving FPS controls. On the other hand, I like to think of DK64 as the awkward, transitional phase between both Banjo games. It seems to have a little bit of everything, inheriting some things from BK (the collecting and the ability pads), and possibly influencing some things for BT (the backtracking, the first-person shooting, and the warp pads). It also had all those miscellaneous minigames and some beat 'em up elements, which we saw a lot of today in Frantic Factory. You could say that they spread themselves really thin with this game. In spite of all the things that need collecting in DK64, it's interesting that Rare went in the opposite direction for BT, greatly reducing the amount of collectibles (even compared to BK). I guess they were aware that they went too far previously.

But yeah, if I wanted to describe BK, BT, and DK64 with using the "collect-a-thon" label, I would agree with others in this thread and say that they are exploration-based adventure/platforming games with some amount of puzzle-solving. They really do lack the fast-paced, athletic world design that characterizes Super Mario 64, but I guess that was intentional on the part of the developers.
SpoonyBardOL wrote: 3 years ago Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but is anyone else distracted by the fact that Donkey and Diddy have much more high fidelity profile pics in the menus, but the other three newer Kongs just have static images of their N64 model faces?
Yes, I noticed that too. Wrinkly's face on her doors also has that high fidelity look.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by FPzero »

DK is basically the worst kong to do the crown fights with because he lacks a running attack that knocks the kasplats on their butts. I always found Lanky best because his arms reach so far.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by FourteenthOrder »

FPzero wrote: 3 years ago DK is basically the worst kong to do the crown fights with because he lacks a running attack that knocks the kasplats on their butts. I always found Lanky best because his arms reach so far.
Agreed on both counts, though rao didn't have too much annoyance as DK, at least~
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by Paragraph »

Donkey is overall the worst Kong to play as. He has basically no redeeming features. All the others have something to make them worthwhile:
- They really nailed Diddy being "the nimble one", he has less startup on his animations, they are quicker and more fluid in general, and he of course jumps a little higher, making platforming a breeze
- Tiny can twirl, making her the best platform explorer hands down
- Lanky has phenomenal reach with his running attack, and it barely slows him down, so he has surprisingly good gameplay flow for such an awkward looking guy. Generally probably the second worst Kong tho
- Chunky obviously has the best combat, but something that's criminally underutilized by raocow as well: his aerial attack is easily the best in the game, the forward somersault gives him crazy jump length extension and air control. Don't sleep on it!

Donkey has a terrible running attack, a terrible aerial, has slow and lumbering animations, and is neither the strongest nor has the best weapon or anything else. His upgrades are also all insanely lame.


On Beaver Bother: I never had much trouble with it as a kid playing N64, but I dunno if being on PAL helped there. Apparently there's a world of difference between versions depending on framerate and/or lag. My tactic was basically always to just run in a circle around the hole, keep mashing the snap button. The beaver will or won't fall in, but don't turn around and try to get an individual one in, just keep circling. If you managed to encircle all of them, you can tighten the radius, and if new ones spawn outside of your circle, herd them closer before starting the rounds again. This should generally work if you don't get tempted to get that one guy in FUCK he almost FELL
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - every place has a race

Post by Paragraph »

Today I complain about raocow's gameplay apparently. There was only a single time Orang-stand was actually useful - up the final ramp to Lanky's banana. Every other time was strictly detrimental. However, you really shouldn't feel bad about having issues with the platforming up there, least of all with the Kersplat, it really is that awkward. iirc you can actually snipe him with the gun and get over there with a single long-jump, because you are surprisingly floaty, but you wouldn't think that without much more experience in the engine.

It's sad because this is one of the few genuine moments of pure 3D platforming, and it's just...not good. It's basically Tick Tock Clock but with floaty controls, worse movement options (except for Tiny) and somehow a worse camera than SM64.

Also luv 2 constantly take Porter #4 (btw how did you forget that it's on the bottom, you went over it like five times before unlocking the top one) to switch Kongs and go back down

Another feature of this game's design: bizarre banana weighing. Sometimes they seem to run out of "organic" places to distribute bananas, so they toss all the ones of a certain Kong in one area. Lanky had 15 bananas to spend on unlocking the boss last episode. This time, up the central machine were almost all the rest, sans one balloon inside it.

Advice: you can jump with your gun out. That rarely helps, but it's a way to hit buttons that are slightly too high off the ground to hit without going into first person...or with that technique.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by Petzi »

J. J. W. Mezun wrote: 3 years ago I disagree that challenge is a necessary component o’ a game: Mario Paint is a beloved game, but has no challenge to it, excluding the fly-swatting game. I think you could have an interesting open-world collectathon without much challenge, so long as the levels you traverse are interesting & fun to explore. DK64 are just, to a large extent, not, & I would argue that a lot o’ its attempts to add “challenge” in the form o’ its minigames only worsens that, as it gets in the way o’ exploration. I mean, if I wanted to play a minigame, I’d probably play a game that focuses on minigames, not a game in a different genre, much as if I wanted to play a kart racing game I’d play Mario Kart, not play a platformer & hope a mediocre kart racing minigame shows up.
Mario Paint and Animal Crossing aren't meant to be challenging, they're games about expressing yourself. DK64, on the other hand, presents itself as a game that's supposed to be challenging: there's a health system, failure states, timers and limited resources, not to mention that its prequels were pretty hard. Like you said, the game fails horribly whenever it tries to hammer in awkward challenges, while the exploration is definitely probably its strongest element.

But I mean, if you were to strip away all the challenging parts, it would seriously contradict the theme and plot, since the Kongs are essentially at war with the Kremlings. There's even an arms-dealer and espionage, which I find hilarious.
Oui oui. Je suis très jambon.
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Zarcyne1
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - basic math with Donkey Kong

Post by Zarcyne1 »

And world 3 is super clear, good job. Completely naturally too. I knew I was remembering right about landing on a slope, it does stop damage, shouldn't have doubted myself.

Those three moving platforms are the 4 warp are some of my favorite in the game because they are all super desynced, but you can always jump from one to the next no matter where they are. The factory area in general just kind of sucks though, I've never been a fan of vertical platforming. It makes a good set piece at least.
Paragraph wrote: 3 years ago Donkey has a terrible running attack, a terrible aerial, has slow and lumbering animations, and is neither the strongest nor has the best weapon or anything else. His upgrades are also all insanely lame.
Donkey's best move is his dash attack, the one where he gets on his hands and kicks. It is a super versatile move, you can do a 360+ in one attack if you want. Plus you can jump out of it at a ledge and then do an aerial and get some serious distance. I don't know how it compares to Chunky's aerial, but dk has some snaz to him. Also his aerial is nice because you can use it to stop on a dime if you are overshooting a platform. Outside of that, he's generally a jack of all trades, which in this type of game is pretty bad.
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PSI Ninja
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - every place has a race

Post by PSI Ninja »

It's refreshing to finally see a 3D platforming challenge in this game with so many moving parts, but I think it was more difficult and annoying than it should have been due to the poor camera rather than bad controls. The tendency of the camera to change angles while you're jumping or navigating narrow pathways can really throw you off. Having a camera option where you can switch between fixed views would have been nice. And raocow probably couldn't pan the camera behind Lanky in that one spot because the wall was in the way, which is a thing that happens in many 3D games.

I thought it was funny to see raocow deliberately fall all the way down from the very top of the machine room after getting each Kong's Golden Banana. To be fair, I doubt many players would have chosen to go back down by doing the platforming in reverse. Falling from great heights only seems to deal a maximum of one unit of damage, and since you have so much health in this game, dying from this rarely becomes an issue. So the only real punishment for accidentally falling off is having to potentially redo a lot of stuff, which is not that much different from dying, I guess.
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