La-Mulana 2 - fish. it is a fish. it's true.

[Voltgloss]

This is anecdotal rather than science, but having just now tested using raocow's current loadout, the only weapon I found to have enough raw DPS to defeat Belial in a single Lamp of Time freeze (without needing to Egg away the combustible gas) was the Knife.

[Alice]

raocow inexplicably not noticing the lack of screen-spanning explosions when he accidentally solved the puzzle was a rather egregious error. Just how little attention does one have to be paying attention to what's going on in order to somehow not notice something that blatant?

I could understand not figuring out the solution to the puzzle (in fact I didn't realize the solution until much later when I came back across the hint for the solution and instead resorted to lamp of time+tanking enough damage to win) but to accidentally solve it and then not notice the effects is just strange.

[FPzero]

I ended up beating Beliai with just one timestop because I didn't know the egg thing even existed! I think my loadout was a little different though, so who knows.

[thatguyif]

Even Celeste's soundtrack was contracted out to Lena Raine.

Yeah, that's a good point! I completely forgot about that! And I even interviewed Lena, ffs!

[TiKi]

Even Celeste's soundtrack was contracted out to Lena Raine.

Yeah, that's a good point! I completely forgot about that! And I even interviewed Lena, ffs!

I wasn't sure if I should ask her this, so good thing you're here. Did Lena know/was friends with Maddy before Celeste?

Edit: as to why it matters, I guess knowing someone and them helping you feels more "earned" even if you pay them as a nicety, in contrast to just throwing money you may or may not have worked as hard as other people for at the problem. In short, I don't like capitalism being used as a solution to problems because it is inherently unfair, and that's why I said it felt "corporate" (the most emblematic institutions of capitalism).

[Zummorr]

Brahma asked Takemikazuchi "What is creation?" Takemikazuchi replied, but his answer was muffled by explosions.

In regards to raocow's statements yesterday. Knowing that some puzzle is a bottleneck is a pretty big deal. Since it's hard to be certain if you have enough information to solve a puzzle, or where it applies. I think it does change the way you approach the puzzle.

It's in the same vein as Voltgloss's notes or over eager youtube comments, the playthrough isn't the same as it would be solo, but it's just the nature of LPing it.

[thatguyif]

I wasn't sure if I should ask her this, so good thing you're here. Did Lena know/was friends with Maddy before Celeste?

I think FPzero's comment already answered your question.

[thatguyif]

Edit: as to why it matters, I guess knowing someone and them helping you feels more "earned" even if you pay them as a nicety, in contrast to just throwing money you may or may not have worked as hard as other people for at the problem. In short, I don't like capitalism being used as a solution to problems because it is inherently unfair, and that's why I said it felt "corporate" (the most emblematic institutions of capitalism).

(I should note, when I started writing my previous post, this edit was not there, apologies for the double)

You know what? Let me flip this argument for you in the angle that you are taking. By suggesting that Ms. Raine or Mr. Kaufman (or, in the context of La-Mulana 1 & 2, JUNNY-san) should not have worked on the relevant gaming projects because they have no social connection to the developers of the game, you reduce the notion of game development into a selective elite/hobbyist institution that is highly built around social connections. This sort of belief greatly inhibits game development as a creative art because it basically boils it down who you know, and if you don't know enough people, welp, either you got to spend a long time learning whatever aspect of a game you need or you just can't make that game. I've seen quite a few creative job fields collapse precisely because they had been reduced to building your entire career and income around the size of your contact list, and that's a niche death spiral.

Secondly, and more importantly, the implicit suggestion - i.e. "even if you pay them as a nicety" - that the devs should not be required to pay people they consider friends for the work they've done undermines those people's labor. In fact it just implies that it is okay to exploit these people because "we're friends!" That is a very very awful thing to do, something I saw happen to a friend of mine.

All labor is transactional. Those who say otherwise are out to probably exploit you even further. It matters not if you like the work or not, or who is your boss/paymaster. The conflict that arises in capitalism comes from the compensation of that labor. For someone who sounds like they're hostile to capitalism, I find it surprising that you do not understand this basic principle, and make an argument that is ultimately favorable to capitalism.

[TiKi]

Edit: as to why it matters, I guess knowing someone and them helping you feels more "earned" even if you pay them as a nicety, in contrast to just throwing money you may or may not have worked as hard as other people for at the problem. In short, I don't like capitalism being used as a solution to problems because it is inherently unfair, and that's why I said it felt "corporate" (the most emblematic institutions of capitalism).

(I should note, when I started writing my previous post, this edit was not there, apologies for the double)

You know what? Let me flip this argument for you in the angle that you are taking. By suggesting that Ms. Raine or Mr. Kaufman (or, in the context of La-Mulana 1 & 2, JUNNY-san) should not have worked on the relevant gaming projects because they have no social connection to the developers of the game, you reduce the notion of game development into a selective elite/hobbyist institution that is highly built around social connections. This sort of belief greatly inhibits game development as a creative art because it basically boils it down who you know, and if you don't know enough people, welp, either you got to spend a long time learning whatever aspect of a game you need or you just can't make that game. I've seen quite a few creative job fields collapse precisely because they had been reduced to building your entire career and income around the size of your contact list, and that's a niche death spiral.

Secondly, and more importantly, the implicit suggestion - i.e. "even if you pay them as a nicety" - that the devs should not be required to pay people they consider friends for the work they've done undermines those people's labor. In fact it just implies that it is okay to exploit these people because "we're friends!" That is a very very awful thing to do, something I saw happen to a friend of mine.

All labor is transactional. Those who say otherwise are out to probably exploit you even further. It matters not if you like the work or not, or who is your boss/paymaster. The conflict that arises in capitalism comes from the compensation of that labor. For someone who sounds like they're hostile to capitalism, I find it surprising that you do not understand this basic principle, and make an argument that is ultimately favorable to capitalism.

When I said "as a nicety" I meant that it was the moral thing to do, and you should always approach your friends proposing to pay them. The idea of paying your friends for their labor (or coming to a profit-sharing agreement) gives mutual benefits. I assumed that Maddy had paid or profit-shared with all of their self-described "friends"!

Secondly, what are these creative industries that collapsed due to... er... non-familial nepotism that you are talking about? You might have a good point there.

I guess I like the solo-developer/group of friends thing because, well... if I work alone or with a group of friends, I know that capitalism will not kill my efforts. Studio Pixel had to work a job before revenue from Cave Story+ let him quit, but he did indeed eventually make the game. There's something so much more romantic about someone handcrafting everything themselves or working TOGETHER with their friends... instead of ordering around some rando because you have money and they're desperate. It makes me think of all those "masterpieces" that only exist because the Catholic Church blew their budget on painting instead of more physical concerns. Is that really how art should be born? Instead, shouldn't the government give us the financial freedom to create art without financial pressures (or at least a low workload/enough universal basic income that one can work on it for at least an hour or two a night). Tim and Geoff Follin's legacy is almost entirely licensed cruft. I wonder what they could have produced if society had let THEM and their friends decide what games to make? Getting hired by indie devs that you don't know is just what the Follin bros. had to do in the 90s. These indie devs don't have an office, but it's still the same basic idea of artistic types being desperate to get any job instead of society offering the freedom to make their own ideas for works or partner with friends to make stuff that they're emotionally-invested in.

[Crow]

is.... is THIS the real la-mulana?

[freshtalk]

I guess I like the solo-developer/group of friends thing because, well... if I work alone or with a group of friends, I know that capitalism will not kill my efforts. Studio Pixel had to work a job before revenue from Cave Story+ let him quit, but he did indeed eventually make the game. There's something so much more romantic about someone handcrafting everything themselves or working TOGETHER with their friends... instead of ordering around some rando because you have money and they're desperate. It makes me think of all those "masterpieces" that only exist because the Catholic Church blew their budget on painting instead of more physical concerns. Is that really how art should be born? Instead, shouldn't the government give us the financial freedom to create art without financial pressures (or at least a low workload/enough universal basic income that one can work on it for at least an hour or two a night). Tim and Geoff Follin's legacy is almost entirely licensed cruft. I wonder what they could have produced if society had let THEM and their friends decide what games to make? Getting hired by indie devs that you don't know is just what the Follin bros. had to do in the 90s. These indie devs don't have an office, but it's still the same basic idea of artistic types being desperate to get any job instead of society offering the freedom to make their own ideas for works or partner with friends to make stuff that they're emotionally-invested in.

It's definitely nice and always an inspiring story when game developers work on and complete projects purely through their own passion and personal connections, but I definitely don't think every indie or inspiring-to-be-indie dev is able to do that or should feel obligated to. Just as someone could be really enthused to do the sound and art for their own game, they could just as well believe that hiring a certain person for their talent would be the best thing for their dream project.

I think it'd be a really bad mindset to think that a dev's vision for a project is somehow invalidated if they happen to outsource assets. Since you mentioned Celeste, to use that as an example... If the team hired a professional they had never met beforehand to do some art or the sound or something, you wouldn't consider all the other efforts of the team or the messages of the game to mean less because of that, would you? At least, I don't think anybody should.

[repairmanman]

Funny that you think capitalism is the thing that is stopping people from being free. The maker of tetris literally saw no money from his game for a long time because the soviets took it from him as state property.

You seem to have a really backwards look on what capitalism is, no one can force someone to do something under capitalism. If you want to create, you can create. If you want to but don't have resources? You can work in a different field until either the creations you make in your spare time kick off(e.g. PIXEL and cave story), or you make enough in that field to feel comfortable creating.

In communism and socialism, you aren't afforded this luxury, you are forced into your job for the good of the state. You don't get to choose what you do, so there's no way you'll just be able to freely create, and there's no way to decide who gets to be a state artist. If you're arguing for UBI, that's already a completely separate can of worms.

I'm also pretty sure no one forced Lena Raine to be a freelance composer.

Edit: Tim and Geoff Folin? Really?

They're currently alive and well as far as I can tell. They can still make music, probably from all the money they made freelancing. Even before that, all their musical training was afforded to them because their parents had the choice to send them to musical training. If you're upset that they worked on games that you don't like, maybe that's more a problem with you than with capitalism.

[Crow]

In communism and socialism, you aren't afforded this luxury, you are forced into your job for the good of the state.

lol you just described capitalism

[CrappyBlueLuigi]

this entire last page of the thread has been a little wild already but someone coming in and doing the whole "capitalism is good actually and communism/socialism (same thing) is bad, you know the russians?" thing is truly a highlight

[Grounder]

this is pretty late by this point, but i would have personally assumed that the "precipice of doom" would have been the opening to the cave that kills you if you tap right

[repairmanman]

this entire last page of the thread has been a little wild already but someone coming in and doing the whole "capitalism is good actually and communism/socialism (same thing) is bad, you know the russians?" thing is truly a highlight

Actually denigrating capitalism on a forum dedicated to a lets player is such a high level of irony.

[Draexzhan]

The last time I saw anything La-Mulana go this off the rails was when Lemeza defeated Ellmac.

[Crow]

this entire last page of the thread has been a little wild already but someone coming in and doing the whole "capitalism is good actually and communism/socialism (same thing) is bad, you know the russians?" thing is truly a highlight

Actually denigrating capitalism on a forum dedicated to a lets player is such a high level of irony.

[FPzero]

Mama mia.

[repairmanman]

anu is the last of the sky people. Palanque and jormungandr probably wore suits that emulated the sky people because and just like anu piloted large machines.

I never figured out the flares thing for Anu, I just got really good at hitting him when he came down. I also wasn't playing in hard mode so that helped.

[Crow]

The real Anunnaki ends here!

[PSI Ninja]

The Flail Whip is a nice quality of life upgrade, but I couldn't help but be disappointed when I cracked all of the seals just to uncover that. To be fair, there was a similar "all the seals" thing in Shrine of the Mother in the first game, and it only gave a Life Jewel.

I still don't really understand Anu's multidirectional laser attack. So it seems that you just have to jump through where it's thinnest? Or where it's whiter? Either way, it doesn't seem intuitive.

anu is the last of the sky people. Palanque and jormungandr probably wore suits that emulated the sky people because and just like anu piloted large machines.

For Jormungand (being a Lokapala), I interpreted his similar appearance to Anu as a sign of reverence. As for Palenque, I'm not clear if he is actually one of the Sky People, or one of the later Children who also shares a similar reverence. Come to think of it, Charon in the Eternal Prison is wearing an elongated skull... so I wonder if worship of the Sky People was pervasive throughout the generations. Interesting to think about.

[Voltgloss]

I still don't really understand Anu's multidirectional laser attack. So it seems that you just have to jump through where it's thinnest? Or where it's whiter? Either way, it doesn't seem intuitive.

The part you can pass through without injury is technically in the background. I think of it as a 3D effect where Anu is shooting the laser at the walls around it and the laser is running "down" those walls towards the player (not towards Lumisa, towards the player). I don't know if that description really helps though - I agree it's a bit visually confusing.

Come to think of it, Charon in the Eternal Prison is wearing an elongated skull... so I wonder if worship of the Sky People was pervasive throughout the generations. Interesting to think about.

Per texts in the Gate of Guidance, the 3rd Children "are distinguished by the long, backwards-arcing crest that stems from their heads." Charon is a 3rd Child (who cut off his wings). He's not wearing an elongated skull, he HAS an elongated skull when you take that crest into account. You can see the same in the NPC portraits for Hermes and for the Hall of Malice characters.

[Donut]

To me, the real question that's always been on my mind is

why Anu is a guardian to begin with. The Sky People wanted to destroy Eg-Lana, so why is he a guardian? Was it to keep himself from dying of old age, or was he sealed there by someone else, or what? But then, I've never been firm on what the guardians are, exactly, in either game.

[Grounder]

would equipping the dash during anu do anything?