YUMP2 - Marginal Consciousness

[AUS]

The Incredible Machine

fuck yes

also if we're just talking about puzzle levels, not having a good red herring or two can make the experience more basic

altho masochist mario happened to be plenty confusing even as bare bones as it was

EDIT after YUMP2 - 10:

[yoshicookiezeus]

...of all the things to theme a level around, Boolean algebra and the satisfiability problem was not one I’d ever expect to see.

To make an attempt to explain what is going on: the problem statement is this: given an expression like the ones in the level, find ways to assign “true” and “false” to the available variables (a and b, here) so that the value of the entire expression is true. The three operators used in the level work like this:
- (NOT x) is true if and only if x is false (where x can be either a variable or a full expression)
- (x OR y) is true if and only if one or both of x and y is true (and thus is false only if both x and y are false)
- (x AND y) is true if and only if both of x and y is true (and thus is false if any of x and y is false)

So to take the final expression of the level as an example:

(NOT (a OR (NOT b))) is true
implies
(a OR (NOT b)) is false
implies
a is false, (NOT b) is false
implies
a is false, b is true
implies
hit the vine block marked “b”.

[AUS]

oh okay that answers the comment i left. i was missing what the pipes meant

[Validon98]

So logic gate town is, technically simple, I guess? From the perspective of knowing how computer logic goes at least, it's being simulates by having a and b represented as the plant blocks. Opening a plant block is setting it to true, they start as false otherwise. So for like, say, "not a," not opening the a block is the right solution. a or b, hit one or the other block (not necessarily both but there's no exclusion logic afaik in that one setup). a and b, hit both blocks.

Technically edit as posting I guess ycz explained it better than I did whoops.

[Leet]

Special guest music today by the grubbels

[yoshicookiezeus]

oh okay that answers the comment i left. i was missing what the pipes meant

The pipes are just what implements the logic for the operators. For instance, as raocow demonstrated, the pipe setup in the first room results in a vine coming out of the top if and only if you don’t send a vine in through the bottom, which perfectly matches the definition of the NOT operator.

[Nimono]

Logic gates are fun~ Especially in programming~ They can be confusing though!

[AUS]

actually wait i got it i just misread NOT (a or (not b)) as (a or (not b)) and got really confused

[Peliptia]

hahaohwow⁝.⁛. ♫ the music from the first level is super cute✧ﾟdoes anyone know what its from⁇ its like an animal crossing voice or a singamajig♪ ⁺ ﾟ

also⁝ alsos⁝ the logic gate things made sense after thinking really carefully about whats being said

[helucard]

Let's get meta

Code: Select all

Foreach (var levelIdea in levelIdeas)     //For level quality control, check fun and cleverness
{
   if fun() and clever() then             //Check if it's fun and clever - The AND gate, it must be both
   {
      MakeLevel(levelIdea);               //Cool, all's good, make it a level
   }
   else if fun() or clever() then         //Check if it's one or the other - The OR gate, must be one or the other
   {
      if not fun() then                   //Did it fail because it's not fun? - The NOT gate
      {
         ReworkThis(levelIdea);           //Not gonna work, do it over, make it fun.
      }
      else                                //It's fun, but not really clever
      {
         WorkOnIt(levelIdea);             //Add something snazzy, we have something going here
      }
   }
   else                                   //Didn't qualify before, so it's neither fun nor clever
   {
      BinThisTrash(levelIdea);            //Scrap it, what's the point.
   }
}

[AUS]

idk if it's fun and not clever i think ship it. dont wanna do an asmt to it and just add gimmicks for the sake of it

[helucard]

Fair point.
Thankfully, this is abstract pseudocode, and we can pretend that the "ReworkThis" function has a result where the level is placed in a world for fun rompy filler purposes.

[SAJewers]

xfix posted this in the spotzone, so it should probably be left here too

in short, "Proof that SMW is NP-Complete" is a math paper disguised as SMW level
it shows that you can represent 3-SAT problems in SMW, and 3-SAT is known to be NP-complete
also, there is a paper that shows that it's possible create NP-hard levels in Super Mario World (the level in YUMP 2 merely proves that it's possible to create NP-complete levels)
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.1895.pdf
WARNING: the paper contains math. Don't read this paper if you're particular sensitive to math!
in fact, the final section of "Proof that SMW is NP-Complete" cites this paper

hahaohwow⁝.⁛. ♫ the music from the first level is super cute✧ﾟdoes anyone know what its from⁇ its like an animal crossing voice or a singamajig♪ ⁺ ﾟ

also⁝ alsos⁝ the logic gate things made sense after thinking really carefully about whats being said

credit xfix again:

however, as it turns out, 64KB of RAM isn't really sufficient for voice, so instead there is that weird attempt at voice

[Ditocoaf]

But from the simple "what am I supposed I do in this level" perspective, raocow, it's just telling you which vines to bop before entering the pipe:

when it says "not A", don't activate vine A. When it says "a and b", activate vine a and b. When it says "a or b", activate vine a or b. All this other stuff people are talking about is the "why".

I think, from the standpoint of a puzzle level, the first few rooms were examples, and only the last room was a puzzle. You were overthinking it since it was all mathy, even though it's secretly simple if you just ignore the "gate" stuff and read the instructions as if they're weirdly phrased english.

[Ashan]

Yeah I was gonna say, even if you don't know programming I don't think it's a lot to ask that when you see "a and b" you hit a and b, and if it says "a or b" you hit a or b.

Cool level

[Alice]

Yeah I was gonna say, even if you don't know programming I don't think it's a lot to ask that when you see "a and b" you hit a and b, and if it says "a or b" you hit a or b.

Cool level

Yeah, the only confusing parts for a non-programmer should be the final puzzle and possibly the labels on the pipes which don't seem to really clarify things much and could possibly make things more confusing to someone who isn't familiar with logic gates. The first two puzzles are so simple that anyone should easily understand them if they actually put any conscious thought into it instead of going "NOT A? What's that mean? Hit the block labelled A?!" repeatedly.

[kitikami]

I think the first parts at least were pretty simple for non-programmers, but there is a sweet spot where you know enough about programming to recognize that there are programming elements but not what they mean where your brain just gives up on trying to even think about it because it realizes it doesn't understand the context, so it will just default to brute-forcing the puzzle instead.

[repairmanman]

Considering that the truth tables for all of the levels are pretty straightforward, you don't really need to know any programming knowledge to beat the level.

The only thing that might trip you up is not knowing that or is inclusive.

[Ivy]

Other Pokémon games. Theorem 7.2 actually holds for all Pokémon role-playing games, because the only actual Pokémon used in the construction were from the first generation, which is present in all the games

:(

[ft029]

Everyone else has already explained the NP-complete level multiple times, so I won't talk about that.

I've watched several streamers play this game, and not many understood what was going on. It's a lot easier to watch than play.

Also, in my first semester of college, I took a student-taught class called "design and analysis of logic puzzle games". In one lecture, I was really interested by a proof that Sokoban (the block pushing game) is NP-complete (which means you probably need an exponential amount of time to solve it). I decided to make my final project showing that SMW is NP-complete, and then realized the level was also great YUMP2 material. I passed the class :D

[idol]

chuck kick a funny basketball

[xfix]

Other Pokémon games. Theorem 7.2 actually holds for all Pokémon role-playing games, because the only actual Pokémon used in the construction were from the first generation, which is present in all the games

:(

This paper was written before Pokemon Sword/Shield. Interestingly, removed Pokemon are not a problem in this case. Sure, Electrode is missing from Sword and Shield, but that can be easily be replaced with Mewtwo.

Rather, this proof doesn't work in Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, Ultra Moon, Sword and Shield because trainers no longer walk towards the player before battle.

[LunarRainbowShyGuy]

As someone who knew what that second level was about, I enjoyed it, although I kind of wish there was more to it. Then again, given raocow's experience here maybe it's good that it's short; watching raocow stumble around having no idea what he was doing was funny, but any longer and I probably would have had a hard time resisting the urge to yell at the screen.

[Piesonscreations]

That song makes me wish that Rolling Start got the vocal treatment as well.

[Reecer7]

really who needs schools to be open when you can get an entire 4-hour course in computability theory by playing a smw hack on youtube

fun fact: the enlarged "footballs" the charlies throw are actually regulation-size rugby balls!