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VIP6 - VIP

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Sugar
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Re: VIP6 - Miyagi

Post by Sugar »

Slit08 wrote: 3 years ago I know it sounds extremely agaisnt what VIP stands for - mainly being a Japanese SMW hack - but what if someone from talkhaus with decent coding skills adds a postgame final boss to the game - like worldpeace who has done a WONDERFUL job with JUMP and JUMP 1/2? By the time raocow reaches the true final level of the game there would be a final boss and the game would be complete...

I mean at this point noone from the old VIP community would care anyways given that they didn't touch the game in three years, which is a very long time. But in my oppinion, a complete game is always better than an unfinished one.
No.

Long answer: Adding final bosses to JUMP 1/2 delayed the game by a year or so, and I think we did in fact consider releasing the game without final bosses. I want to say I'm exaggerating, but the game was mostly finished in 2018, missing just the final bosses. There were other changes of course during that period, mostly polishing stuff, but they didn't block the release.
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Re: VIP6 - Miyagi

Post by SAJewers »

Just make the final postgame level end with SMW bowser or iggy or something.
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Re: VIP6 - Miyagi

Post by Slit08 »

xfix wrote: 3 years ago
Slit08 wrote: 3 years ago I know it sounds extremely agaisnt what VIP stands for - mainly being a Japanese SMW hack - but what if someone from talkhaus with decent coding skills adds a postgame final boss to the game - like worldpeace who has done a WONDERFUL job with JUMP and JUMP 1/2? By the time raocow reaches the true final level of the game there would be a final boss and the game would be complete...

I mean at this point noone from the old VIP community would care anyways given that they didn't touch the game in three years, which is a very long time. But in my oppinion, a complete game is always better than an unfinished one.
No.

Long answer: Adding final bosses to JUMP 1/2 delayed the game by a year or so, and I think we did in fact consider releasing the game without final bosses. I want to say I'm exaggerating, but the game was mostly finished in 2018, missing just the final bosses. There were other changes of course during that period, mostly polishing stuff, but they didn't block the release.
Ok okay, I didn't know this. It seems like coding custom bosses in SMW takes up a lot of time, way more than a complex level with some ASM gimmick.
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Re: VIP6 - Miyagi

Post by Sugar »

SAJewers wrote: 3 years ago Just make the final postgame level end with SMW bowser or iggy or something.
Yeah, that's what we did in stick mice in my head and then beat my head in with a hammer and let them back out.
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Re: VIP6 - Miyagi

Post by KobaBeach »

xfix wrote: 3 years ago
Slit08 wrote: 3 years ago I know it sounds extremely agaisnt what VIP stands for - mainly being a Japanese SMW hack - but what if someone from talkhaus with decent coding skills adds a postgame final boss to the game - like worldpeace who has done a WONDERFUL job with JUMP and JUMP 1/2? By the time raocow reaches the true final level of the game there would be a final boss and the game would be complete...

I mean at this point noone from the old VIP community would care anyways given that they didn't touch the game in three years, which is a very long time. But in my oppinion, a complete game is always better than an unfinished one.
No.

Long answer: Adding final bosses to JUMP 1/2 delayed the game by a year or so, and I think we did in fact consider releasing the game without final bosses. I want to say I'm exaggerating, but the game was mostly finished in 2018, missing just the final bosses. There were other changes of course during that period, mostly polishing stuff, but they didn't block the release.
Also just gonna repeat what I said to Brutal Mario Wiki people and say that finishing other people's hacks is really pointless and it is time that could be better spent working on your own hacks.
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by gbreeze »

The fact that the hack community has created this expectation of amazing final bosses at the end of hacks is the bane of the modern hacker lol.

There's a handful of people that can code at the level of worldpeace/carol. But it also takes a seriously massive amount of time and the undertaking is probably more extensive than even managing the entire collab itself level-wise.

It's a shame because "we" really did this to ourselves I suppose. If you have a large collab of any sorts, or even a regular hack that isn't vanilla, people just expect an amazing boss, to the point where it's actually a disappointment not to have one. I wish that amazing custom bosses were just an amazing add-on and huge surprise, and not just as casual and expected as having a title screen. I imagine that a few hacks would have come out sooner, and perhaps people would be more interested in making large collabs? Not sure.

Edit: also yeah, the difference between a unique level with a cool custom asm gimmick and a full-on final boss is massive. Level gimmicks can take a day or 2 to make, bosses can take hundreds of hours of work and delay the game for a year or more. That's just the coding though, the design requires an understanding of certain aspects of game design that most people don't even touch in smw (since this is a platformer, after all).

With that being said, there are probably some creative ways to make bosses with a lot less effort, but if we're talking the complexity of the ones from the last couple vips... yeah
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by Grounder »

wait, don't be hasty

this must be kouhai's trap
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by alexandrite »

now I want to see that really condescending looking screenshot of Yuno (whose birthday was yesterday actually, fun fact)
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by Smibbix »

So I know VIP is called VIP because of the VIP board on 2chan, but where the heck does the wall and alaska part of the name come from?
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by Kilgamayan »

yuno what it is

black and yellow black and yellow black and yellow

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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by Leet »

ume aoki is a real hero
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by Sugar »

Smibbix wrote: 3 years ago So I know VIP is called VIP because of the VIP board on 2chan, but where the heck does the wall and alaska part of the name come from?
They are also boards.
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by Piesonscreations »

I'll make the argument that the Hidamari level should be played in 16:9 just so the faces are wider.
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by Ashan »

The real final boss is the friends we made along the way
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by KobaBeach »

gbreeze wrote: The fact that the hack community has created this expectation of amazing final bosses at the end of hacks is the bane of the modern hacker lol.
There is a mountain of difference of making a boss of the level of like the Seven ASCII Memes, and making something of the level of Julius. I see the Seven ASCII Memes taking a few months for the experienced hacker, while Julius would take far longer. I feel like VIP has fallen victim to the same problem VLDC went through where it thought surpassing itself technologically with each entry was more important than making a good, finished game.

Making Juli/Tana level bosses isn't impossible but it takes a lot of time and skill, yes. I'd like to study how Juli/Tana and Seven Koopalings work but I understand it's still far beyond my skills for now.

alexandrite wrote: 3 years ago now I want to see that really condescending looking screenshot of Yuno (whose birthday was yesterday actually, fun fact)
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Re: VIP6 - Miyagi

Post by TiKi »

SAJewers wrote: 3 years ago Just make the final postgame level end with SMW bowser or iggy or something.
You know how Larry added three podoboos? Make the entire floor have podoboos.
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by thatguyif »

Since nobody brought this up yesterday, and I'm only catching up now, thought to mention: The hack's overworld theme is (nearly) the exact same "overworld" theme to Illusion of Gaia. I put that word in quotes because there isn't really an "overworld" travel on so much as a paper map you automatically walk across when you go somewhere. The Dark Gaia games had surprisingly good soundtracks despite having different composers, and was the early point that the SNES' music capabilities would far exceed the Genesis/MD...
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by FPzero »

SMWCP2 also fell victim to the final boss struggles, among other things. More and more I'm convinced hacks don't need flashy final bosses because they're often overdone and not very fun. Just make hard, fun final levels instead.
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Re: VIP6 - Miyagi

Post by Alice »

SAJewers wrote: 3 years agoJust make the final postgame level end with SMW bowser or iggy or something.
Make it a single bob-omb whose countdown timer will run out before you can reach it.
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by Sugar »

About final boss, I always liked the simplicity of final boss of ASMT, which was pretty much just Chargin' Chuck, just with infinite HP. Really neat boss fight, fitting Super Mario World as a game, and very simple to code comparatively. I also feel similarly about Bowser fight in JUMP.

That being said, designing a simple boss encounter like this is tricky, you need a good idea.
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by BobisOnlyBob »

xfix wrote: 3 years ago About final boss, I always liked the simplicity of final boss of ASMT, which was pretty much just Chargin' Chuck, just with infinite HP.
King Charles is like my go-to for good Mario hack boss design. Yes, he can be more than a little unfair with the death-by-scrolling and sudden changes, but he's a familiar enemy with familiar behaviours made into an extremely clever boss, and takes the familiar mechanic of autoscroll and attaches it TO him, reframing him as the focus over the player character. It's a really damn clever fight and no Julius-like boss will ever come close to touching it imo
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Re: VIP6 - Yamagata

Post by Slit08 »

I agree with you guys. I think having a finished hack with neat levels (as mentioned before a neat, custom level with crazy ASM doesn't even take that long for an experiencd hacker... maybe not even a month whereas a boss seems to take like a year) is much more desired than what we got with VIP 6 where almost the entire game is done with the exception of one boss.

Thinking about it, it's a shame that it came to the falling out. Imagine if the levels from ASPE Mario (which was the result of the falling out where the original devs made their own thing) were added to the VIP 6 levels... I know some of the ASPE levels were not received very well back when raocow played the hack. But despite that I think it would have made VIP 6 even better.
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Re: VIP6 - Fukushima

Post by Leet »

On MY game, the normal exit unlocked the secret path (and I presume the secret one would too?) - a path which didn't unlock at all for raocow! (I don't know if he can get to that level another way.)

A bit more of a zombie game than just lacking a boss, it seems.
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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Re: VIP6 - Fukushima

Post by Piesonscreations »

I think the best final boss one could make is to just make the screen black so you can see your reflection in the monitor, and a text blurb that says "confront your humanity"
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