Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1he First place entry...well d0ne to all.
- Ivy
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Archival Purposes
I'm impressed at the 13 points in aesthetics that Swissotel got from lolyoshi. That's just one point less than my level!
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Archival Purposes
Can I at least ask where the music from the excised entry came from?
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Archival Purposes
Great reference.
I feel quite bad for making a level that would make a judge quit. I doubt I should have changed much of the design, though; just the aesthetics, which I realize are very lacking. I'm really glad raocow got ambushed by the blue falling koopa (which ignores the delay from Yoshi growing!), and seeing the thinking face.
There's also a section of the last room where a saw goes mad if you stand in front of it (which didn't occur in raocow's video). I have no clue why this happens. https://youtu.be/z8_FTuVXZEY?t=242
PokerFace's level is wonderfully pretty and has some neat ideas, but also some waiting for the layer 2 in the first half. The sprite replacements are awesome and humorous.
The music from 19th place is Bodkin Point from Puzzle Planet League. I don't think the port is anywhere on smwcentral, and I don't think I'd want to use it since it's so heavily associated with that level.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Swiss World
I think my main complaint with Swissotel can be succinctly represented by the midpoint room with the Chuck and the fire flower. It's a very neat setup that uses some interesting mechanics built into SMW in a way that you wouldn't find in the original game to achieve an effect that you'd normally need ASM for- in this case, it's essentially a wall that you can only open if you kill a specific enemy. However... it has nothing to do with the rest of the level. It doesn't make the level less fun to play, sure, but at the same time it feels kind of like a parlor trick, a "look what I know how to do". I feel like when designing a level it's important for the different parts to feel like they're part of a cohesive whole, and not just a series of cool setups the designer had in their back pocket.
This isn't a problem unique to to Swissotel; it actually appears in a lot of levels, including many high ranking levels, and it always feels janky to me. Similar to marathon levels, it seems to stem from a desire to impress the judges by putting a lot of content into the level, even at the expense of cohesion. Unlike marathon levels, however, these levels can still rank fairly high because they aren't necessarily frustrating to play. But in my opinion, I think the lack of cohesion hurts the experience of the level in the long run, both because the player has to frequently adjust to new concepts being thrown at them, and because it makes the level have less of a singular identity.
Contrast with one of my favorite VLDC levels, "Ruin of Cupidity" from VLDC9; that entire level is based around the concept of first training the player to follow coins, and then reversing it in the second half so that coins instead intentionally mislead the player. That level also uses a number of different sprites and blocks (including 1F0) but it feels more cohesive because everything is tied to the coin gimmick. The falling section before the midpoint where you have to follow the coins to avoid danger is mirrored by a falling section before the end of the level where you have to avoid the coins to avoid danger. It's clever bookending that makes the whole level feel harmonious. It's a level where you can appreciate its form, the way one might analyze a piece of music to dissect the way it develops its motifs. It keeps it from just being a sequence of stuff arranged in a level-like fashion.
I wouldn't call Swissotel a bad level. It's certainly better than most of the levels in the lower half of this contest, and if I were to judge it I would probably give it high marks for creativity. It is a very creative level with unique setups, some of which look really fun to pull off. However, once again I feel as though it could use some editing to trim the fat and remove some of the jank.
This isn't a problem unique to to Swissotel; it actually appears in a lot of levels, including many high ranking levels, and it always feels janky to me. Similar to marathon levels, it seems to stem from a desire to impress the judges by putting a lot of content into the level, even at the expense of cohesion. Unlike marathon levels, however, these levels can still rank fairly high because they aren't necessarily frustrating to play. But in my opinion, I think the lack of cohesion hurts the experience of the level in the long run, both because the player has to frequently adjust to new concepts being thrown at them, and because it makes the level have less of a singular identity.
Contrast with one of my favorite VLDC levels, "Ruin of Cupidity" from VLDC9; that entire level is based around the concept of first training the player to follow coins, and then reversing it in the second half so that coins instead intentionally mislead the player. That level also uses a number of different sprites and blocks (including 1F0) but it feels more cohesive because everything is tied to the coin gimmick. The falling section before the midpoint where you have to follow the coins to avoid danger is mirrored by a falling section before the end of the level where you have to avoid the coins to avoid danger. It's clever bookending that makes the whole level feel harmonious. It's a level where you can appreciate its form, the way one might analyze a piece of music to dissect the way it develops its motifs. It keeps it from just being a sequence of stuff arranged in a level-like fashion.
I wouldn't call Swissotel a bad level. It's certainly better than most of the levels in the lower half of this contest, and if I were to judge it I would probably give it high marks for creativity. It is a very creative level with unique setups, some of which look really fun to pull off. However, once again I feel as though it could use some editing to trim the fat and remove some of the jank.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Swiss World
That's a good criticism. I still struggle with coming up with a theme and building around it; usually I have lots of scattered, cool ideas (sometimes very relevant to the overall gimmick, sometimes tangentially related, and sometimes completely off-topic) that I play around with for a bit, and then get bored of.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Swiss World
16th: Chainsaw CD by Dr. Tapeworm
15th: Neo Reztopia Tower by allowiscous
- Kilgamayan
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Swiss World
Neo Reztopia Tower more like Super Marisa Land 6-2-1
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Swiss World
did you know? SNART backwards is TRANS which is what every mario character is canonically : )
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oogggghhhh games aren't art Fuck You Roger Ebert *kills him with a hamemr*
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0BEY
Chainsaw CD is my favorite level in this contest. It looks great, has nice music and gameplay is fun and non demanding. Level was really cool.
- nathanisbored
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0BEY
On the "wiggly lines are overstimulating" comment from the first level, since this got my design philosophy gears turning:
I feel like wiggly lines that try to confuse you are an intentional type of challenge in level design. You used the word 'parse' and I think they are intended to specifically be a 'parsing challenge'. In other words, it's not supposed to be easy to sight-read, and that's where the challenge of the obstacle comes from.
I think it's perfectly normal to not be able to parse something like that easily, and for it to feel like information-overload. And I think that's exactly what makes it a fun challenge, for some people. I actually really like that type of challenge for example because it flexes a muscle that I think is underused in my typical play-style. It's an exercise in breaking a daunting task down into a sum of parts, and doing so under pressure. On-the-fly thinking, quick reaction, fight-or-flight, and not getting overwhelmed.
Obviously I've kind of graduated the idea of 'wiggly saws' to a more general level design philosophy at this point. There wasn't anything particularly special or groundbreaking about those particular obstacles, but I don't think 'hard to sight read' obstacles are inherently bad; it's just another type of challenge that you can provide as a level designer.
Granted I'm also the type of person who likes mazes, so take what I say with a grain of salt. That said, I think I like mazes for a completely different reason. Mazes are a slow and meticulous challenge to me, where I'm constantly but gradually trying to build up a mental map in my head. A more 'think-on-your-feet' sort of obstacle is refreshing specifically because my typical playstyle is very slow and meticulous. I like being overwhelmed because it teaches me to be good at something I never thought I'd conquer.
I feel like wiggly lines that try to confuse you are an intentional type of challenge in level design. You used the word 'parse' and I think they are intended to specifically be a 'parsing challenge'. In other words, it's not supposed to be easy to sight-read, and that's where the challenge of the obstacle comes from.
I think it's perfectly normal to not be able to parse something like that easily, and for it to feel like information-overload. And I think that's exactly what makes it a fun challenge, for some people. I actually really like that type of challenge for example because it flexes a muscle that I think is underused in my typical play-style. It's an exercise in breaking a daunting task down into a sum of parts, and doing so under pressure. On-the-fly thinking, quick reaction, fight-or-flight, and not getting overwhelmed.
Obviously I've kind of graduated the idea of 'wiggly saws' to a more general level design philosophy at this point. There wasn't anything particularly special or groundbreaking about those particular obstacles, but I don't think 'hard to sight read' obstacles are inherently bad; it's just another type of challenge that you can provide as a level designer.
Granted I'm also the type of person who likes mazes, so take what I say with a grain of salt. That said, I think I like mazes for a completely different reason. Mazes are a slow and meticulous challenge to me, where I'm constantly but gradually trying to build up a mental map in my head. A more 'think-on-your-feet' sort of obstacle is refreshing specifically because my typical playstyle is very slow and meticulous. I like being overwhelmed because it teaches me to be good at something I never thought I'd conquer.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0BEY
I feel like that interpretation makes sense, in the sense that people who enjoy a sight-reading challenge like this would also enjoy excessively dark levels. It's a risky thing (that often happens on accident because designers usually want to avoid a portion of their players getting angry at nagging things). Just like with haptic, reactionary and logical challenges it's also important here to account for the possibility of players having disabilities that makes these kinds of levels just impossible to even approach. In that area, at least from what I've witnessed, sight and parse-speed related issues (color blindness, reaction time) appear to be more common than haptic issues in various fangame communities (I could be EXTREMELY wrong on this so please correct me if I am), so that might explain why people watch out for their readability more frequently (higher chance of someone playing the level actually struggling to beat it due to those).
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- nathanisbored
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0BEY
yeah maybe that true. whats nice about romhacking is that because there's no incentive to sell your games, you dont need to appeal to a broad audience, so more niche's get covered. there gonna be something for everyone
- Kilgamayan
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0BEY
See also: Shou Toramarunathanisbored wrote: ↑3 years ago On the "wiggly lines are overstimulating" comment from the first level, since this got my design philosophy gears turning:
I feel like wiggly lines that try to confuse you are an intentional type of challenge in level design. You used the word 'parse' and I think they are intended to specifically be a 'parsing challenge'. In other words, it's not supposed to be easy to sight-read, and that's where the challenge of the obstacle comes from.
I think it's perfectly normal to not be able to parse something like that easily, and for it to feel like information-overload. And I think that's exactly what makes it a fun challenge, for some people. I actually really like that type of challenge for example because it flexes a muscle that I think is underused in my typical play-style. It's an exercise in breaking a daunting task down into a sum of parts, and doing so under pressure. On-the-fly thinking, quick reaction, fight-or-flight, and not getting overwhelmed.
(I forgot to mention this the first time around but Shou is absolutely immediately where my mind went when the curved saw tracks started popping up.)
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fm0le
14th: Vestigia Caeca by Sariel (Leiras)
13th: On the Bayou by WhiteYoshiEgg
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fm0le
Vestigia Caeca is my favorite puzzle level in this contest. It looks nice, it's creative, but not demanding like a lot other levels. This was really fun to play level.
- nathanisbored
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fm0le
i guess i'll do the thing where i explain something about the game engine.
snake block sprites persist off screen once theyre loaded. when you touch a brown block it activates any that are currently loaded. when a new one spawns, it turns off all that are currently active (used in Chains of Atrophy in JUMP for example).
um, so it's like this:
snake block sprites persist off screen once theyre loaded. when you touch a brown block it activates any that are currently loaded. when a new one spawns, it turns off all that are currently active (used in Chains of Atrophy in JUMP for example).
um, so it's like this:
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fm0le
That mishap raocow had where he mistook a pillar for solid wall... Honestly, I'm surprised it hasn't happened more. That particular background object has been colored the same as foreground objects more times than I care to count and it honestly drives me nuts. It feels like around 75% of levels that use that tile do this and it's confused me enough times that it's more or less turned into a personal pet peeve.
It's a good level, don't get me wrong. I just really wanted to bring that up.
Second level was a pretty fun romp. Wandering the forest, diving into the water, and then climbing to the treetops, it's got an adventury feel to it.
It's a good level, don't get me wrong. I just really wanted to bring that up.
Second level was a pretty fun romp. Wandering the forest, diving into the water, and then climbing to the treetops, it's got an adventury feel to it.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fm0le
I'm not sure if it's actually that common and maybe it's just a handful of recent levels, but the biggest trend jumping out to me right now is pipes that lead to side room challenges for dagadons. I guess probably because it feels more specific than the more common elements that have been cropping up a lot.
The Bayou level using trees as midpoint and goal posts was a cute touch.
The Bayou level using trees as midpoint and goal posts was a cute touch.
Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fm0le
12th: Trust Fall by Superwario1999
11th: Subterranean Shrine by Blue Leaf
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fb0o
I just don't know what to say now. I come in expecting that you would have fun with my level (especially knowing that you love playing JUMP-style level). That particular door dragged your experience down severely, but judging by the way you speak at the end, it seems to be not the only problem here.
Yeah, that exit leading back to the first half of the level was a mistake. Fortunately, only one of the 5 judges figured out that (maybe because they did not screw up the Yoshi puzzle?). Maybe that 12th place was partially due to luck after all.
Random fact:
Yeah, that exit leading back to the first half of the level was a mistake. Fortunately, only one of the 5 judges figured out that (maybe because they did not screw up the Yoshi puzzle?). Maybe that 12th place was partially due to luck after all.
Random fact:
- This is my first, and my only VLDC entry so far. This is also the only non-kaizo I made in the last 5 years.
- Despite sharing the same gimmick with Aparture Laboratory from VLDC9, I actually don't remember about the existence of that level until finishing my own entry.
- The "shooting fireball at Chuck" puzzle was stolen inspired by a puzzle from the level "Christmas Wrapping" from Banzai Mario World 2 (this particular section: https://youtu.be/Qtavz55Xh1k?t=95)
- raocow
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fb0o
I don't know, something just didn't 'click'. I wish I could articulate why though. It's clearly very well made, with varied set-up. I'm sorry man.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fb0o
Rameau's Nephew on Subterranean Shrine wrote:A rather impressive feet of stagecraft, this one!
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1Fb0o
I think a lot of the creativity in superwario's entry shines from the dragon coin setups (which utilize the wrapping gimmick a lot better imo)
Blue Leaf's entry is just super well designed. "Solid", I would say, except it's not rock solid.
Blue Leaf's entry is just super well designed. "Solid", I would say, except it's not rock solid.
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