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Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1he First place entry...well d0ne to all.

this is the place where lps are being talked about. it's important to talk about games being played on the internet.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Oh look the hill has a big yellow nose

Post by Zandro »

Zyglrox and TaviTurnip, A random websearch made me aware of the attribution error for your entry. I've made the fix, which will show within a day or two. My apologies to TaviTurnip!
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Oh look the hill has a big yellow nose

Post by Kilgamayan »

imo Chrono Trigger has aged very well and is always worth a replay
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Oh look the hill has a big yellow nose

Post by Sugar »

52nd: Room 1F0 by levelengine
Koopster
DESIGN: 22/50
CREATIVITY: 22/30
AESTHETICS: 15/20
TOTAL SCORE: 59/100

This felt... weird. The name of the level implies 1F0 usage, but that's not even what this level is about, like, 3/4 of the time. All of the segments feel very disjointed thematically, and more often than not were super short lived or just involved getting a P-switch and going back or something. The attempt at non-linearity made the level's layout more confusing than anything to be honest. I'm not even sure if I did some parts of the level right (what's the point of the gray platforms in the final ascent to the end of the level?). Some of the aesthetic choices are pretty weird - I personally really dislike switch block outlines as 1F0 and they're especially wonky with the way they work with the platforms before the midpoint. The representation of death water is a strange choice to say the least.

lolyoshi
DESIGN: 42/50
CREATIVITY: 24/30
AESTHETICS: 16/20
TOTAL SCORE: 82/100

The first section is generally the least desireable and the weakest part of the level. It picks up after
the midpoint, where the concept gets enjoyable. Though it still has flaws, I feel the level is good, above
average.

Noivern
DESIGN: 8/50
CREATIVITY: 14/30
AESTHETICS: 16/20
TOTAL SCORE: 38/100

A combination of bad design, cheap tricks, very few powerups, and long length equal a really poor level. It's unpolished and breakable and after seeing there was a 1up midpoint, I had no desire to continue playing.

Sinc-X
DESIGN: 35/50
CREATIVITY: 23/30
AESTHETICS: 12/20
TOTAL SCORE: 70/100

This is kind of all over the place, but not necessarily in a bad way. I was not feeling this level at all at first but it started to grow on me as it went. The sliding tile use is pretty good, but what's better is that it doesn't overstay its welcome. There are definitely parts of this level that are indeed badly designed; a couple of blue shell sections come to mind as being not particularly pleasant. I do also like how the level is laid out--it's confusing at first, but it's really cool looking back. The visuals are not the best, but they're passable.

Rameau's Nephew
DESIGN: 23/50
CREATIVITY: 16/30
AESTHETICS: 19/20
TOTAL SCORE: 58/100

This level *looks* pretty great, that's for certain, with soothing hues, and a wide range of surrealistic environments. The crystals, the background which exists only as a blue outline, the electric water, the fast moving clouds toward the end, it all combines to make an æsthetic feast. It's a touch of a shame that most of the level is spent in the interior sections, however, for even though these look quite good in and of themselves, they're not * quite* as striking as the exterior sections. That's a pretty small complaint, though.

A larger complaint would be the design itself. The level seems *very* heavily based upon ambushing the player, with shell-sniping a-go-go, platforms which unexpectedly ram in to spiked walls a moment after you board them, layer 2 spikes unexpectedly popping out at the worst time, and other such delights. On top of that, the level is quite long, meaning the price of failure is high, and one gets to repeat these setups again and again. And then there's the charming bit where disembarking from a wall-run too earlier (due to not know how earlier one is indeed *expected* to diss one's bark) nets one the prize of getting to play half the level again. Most generous indeed.

I'm not entirely sure what I think of the mini-sections, where one performs a simple activity (usually hitting a P-switch) to move to the next main room. On the one hand, this makes for a sort of interesting reuse of space later on (though perhaps more subtle in effect than the effort required to put such in to practice would seem to justify), though on the other hand, the constant room switching it makes the level feel even longer than it is already, perhaps aggravating an existing issue. I appreciate the concept, but I wonder if it might have been implemented a bit more smoothly.

+ Pretty neat looking environments
+ Reuse of space an interesting idea in concept
- Ambushes at port, cheap tricks at starboard
- Rather too lengthy for its own good.

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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Oh look the hill has a big yellow nose

Post by SAJewers »

Kilgamayan wrote: 3 years ago imo Chrono Trigger has aged very well and is always worth a replay
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Oh look the hill has a big yellow nose

Post by Kilgamayan »

If I become a patron and hit the Royalottery I promise Chrono Trigger will be one of the three games I pick.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Oh look the hill has a big yellow nose

Post by 10204307 »

Man, this level has an extremely cool and unique aesthetic, and some pretty cool setups as well, but it does feel a bit disjointed. I guess the main theme is the moving platforms, which raises some questions about why it's called "Room 1F0". I think the pattern I'm seeing with these late-middle entries is levels that have great ideas and aesthetic choices, but could really use extra editing to trim them down to something more cohesive.

Also, I hate to bring this up again, but oooooof that stereo separation really hurts what is otherwise a pretty good song. How tragic it is that you have these jammin' beats, but the bass and drums have been cursed by a wily witch to forever be star-crossed lovers, separated by time and space, never to meet!
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Oh look the hill has a big yellow nose

Post by Alice »

Levelengine really missed a good opportunity with Yoshi's House. He cut the entire island in half so Yoshi's House should've also been cut right down the middle.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - Oh look the hill has a big yellow nose

Post by Daizo »

10204307 wrote: 3 years agoAlso, I hate to bring this up again, but oooooof that stereo separation really hurts what is otherwise a pretty good song. How tragic it is that you have these jammin' beats, but the bass and drums have been cursed by a wily witch to forever be star-crossed lovers, separated by time and space, never to meet!
idk dude I kinda like how there's an equal amount of noise between the ears, even if they are playing different things. It's a very niche style I guess, but like a lot of those original versions of those songs had that iirc. It kinda sounds like you seperate the guitarists and drummer to seperate sides of the room and they play their song. It kinda tells a story where one side of the screen is more action packed, and the other side is more industrial.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0 IQ = 496 IQ

Post by Sugar »

51st: Hot Swizz Lava by xfix (GlitchMr)
Koopster
DESIGN: 41/50
CREATIVITY: 26/30
AESTHETICS: 14/20
TOTAL SCORE: 83/100

Easy peasy! But not really, although still fun - right length for the difficulty. It's a really clever concept that has been integrated pretty well in the SMW engine. I also dig the hints and how they were done; everything is quite polished! I don't like the second half as much as the first though, because it relies on either a lot of RNG from the wiggler or really awkward camera management to get the disco shell going. Also not a fan of how long it takes to kill yourself if you screw up. I appreciate how the first half is instead more about figuring it out than awkward execution.

lolyoshi
DESIGN: 44/50
CREATIVITY: 27/30
AESTHETICS: 13/20
TOTAL SCORE: 84/100

If you play the level normally, it's rather average and normal. The secret exit is the level's real
deal, and it's honestly pretty fun. Though I feel it is a slightly too difficult, and some parts could have
been more conveniently done.

Noivern
DESIGN: 28/50
CREATIVITY: 25/30
AESTHETICS: 9/20
TOTAL SCORE: 62/100

At first glance this plays like a Forest of Illusion level edit, but playing to get the secret exit makes it clear that a lot of work was put into sprite placement.

The secret exit was clearly where your effort went, to the detriment of the normal exit, which wasn't anything particularly special. It was really fun and some good precise platforming, but I think you should have toned it down. The timer should not be your enemy in a puzzle level, and 300 is *really* low. The moon is a nice reward for going through that route.

The level could have used more changes in elevation and maybe a few more sprites. This would have made a normal playthrough play better while toning down the difficulty of the secret exit path. The palettes are okay, they work.

Sinc-X
DESIGN: 7/50
CREATIVITY: 12/30
AESTHETICS: 14/20
TOTAL SCORE: 33/100

This level left me feeling very confused. The main level is uninteresting at best, and while the secret exit is neat in concept, it doesn't really work very well here. The enemies don't seem very strategically placed which makes actually getting the secret exit more of a chore than an enjoyable experience. And I may be missing something here, but I have no idea what that hint room is supposed to accomplish.

Rameau's Nephew
DESIGN: 20/50
CREATIVITY: 24/30
AESTHETICS: 8/20
TOTAL SCORE: 52/100

Well, this level is -different-, I'll give it that. At its core, though, it basically only amounts to two obstacles. The first is incredibly weird as seems to be more about knowing a curious fact about layer 2 interaction and Yoshi. While I appreciate the hint, I find it almost as confusing as the puzzle itself...maybe more so, since I eventually passed the actual obstacle, but I still don't know what's going on with the hint. The second obstacle seems more about execution than anything else. It is also weird, but less wonky and aggravating.

+ It's certainly an original concept.
- It's strange, and I'm not sure I'm the type who'd find it enjoyable.

Other: Curiously, the lava here is purely ornamental.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0 IQ = 496 IQ

Post by Sugar »

Dev commentary:

The trick is that at 4:32, you drop the shell where Yoshi is, and step on Yoshi, but yeah, i kinda agree this level is too cryptic for its own good, it's essentially a YUMP level i submitted to a contest, I was focusing on cool tech rather than having a playable level (there is something cool about doing such a gimmick within vanilla constraints, I suppose).

The blue shell solution was unintended, but oh well, cannot really fix the level anymore. I thought I fixed that by putting lava everywhere, but I guess it's still possible, unfortunately.

And yeah, the level was heavily inspired by The Floor is Lava! in A2XT. The message box is very similar to the one in A2XT with "Easy peasy" part, as well as the level having cloud indicators just like A2XT.

The way the level works is that I have Layer 2 Falls to make Layer 2 sink after touching it (this is used in Vanilla Dome 1 in vanilla SMW). There are invisible solid blocks on Layer 1 matching locations of ground on Layer 1, and if you fall on ground, Layer 2 is very slightly higher (I think like subpixels or so) than Layer 1. The clouds, Midway Point and the last 1UP checkpoint is placed on Layer 2, so in event you fall onto ground, they won't appear. The 1UP checkpoint is used to make moon and a key appear in the next room.

The way No Yoshi filter in HINT room works is by putting invisible thunder sprites on 1F0. Yoshi gets damaged by those, but Mario doesn't. The hint room also filters shells by putting lava in location of pipe in previous sublevel, for whatever reason that kills the shell, as shell updates its position when moving throught the pipe after processing lava collision. You can see a video of shell filter at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS8zXGdRcnk. I probably could have used a door, but for whatever reason I decided to have a pipe instead, because I didn't like doors in outdoor levels.

The way HINT room gives hints after getting a Midway Point is that I put invisible Midway Point bars covering the ground. Midway point bars don't appear after hitting the Midway Point, revealing the ground..

About the name of the level, it's called "swizz" (informal for disappointment) because I knew it was a bad level. I wanted to replace it with something better, but in the end, I decided to submit this in the end just to have something in the collaboration (and honestly, I didn't expect this level to end up being 51st).
Last edited by Sugar 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0 IQ = 496 IQ

Post by Duker »

"The trick is that at 4:32, you drop the shell where Yoshi is, and step on Yoshi"
I can't parse how this would change anything, what changes by having a shell on the ground half a screen away from Yoshi?
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0 IQ = 496 IQ

Post by Implo »

I remember playing previous version. It had no lava, so I was confused why it is called Hot Swiss Lava. Seeing contest version made sense. As for secret exit - I didn't like it. First it's these koopa shenanigans that I was clueless what to do. Sure, there was hint, but I did not understand it at all. I would prefer to be spoiled what's the trick with manipulating direction of koopas being thrown out of their shells. After 50 savestates I managed to do that. I think I just Yoshi jumped and then raced to the midpoint.

But what was the hardest for me - it was 2nd half. I tried normal bouncing on koopas, I tried to create disco shell, I tried to spin jump, I tried to ride wiggler as far as possible. Wigglers are super annoying. I spent trying to move them right so long time, because very often they were turning left. For this part I used few hundreds savestates.

No idea if this version is easier, because I never attempted to do secret exit again. First time was hell and I didn't want to repeat that. This is definitely the worst possible secret exit for me.

Overall I didn't like the whole level. Normal exit is too easy and secret exit is just way too precise for me. Also if you don't know the trick with koopa manipulation (which I still don't know), then you will definitely not learn it here. Because hint isn't helpful. So this secret exit is only for veteran players.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0 IQ = 496 IQ

Post by Sugar »

Duker wrote: 3 years ago "The trick is that at 4:32, you drop the shell where Yoshi is, and step on Yoshi"
I can't parse how this would change anything, what changes by having a shell on the ground half a screen away from Yoshi?
The idea is, when you do that, you get on Yoshi and bounce off the shell at the same time without landing on the floor.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0 IQ = 496 IQ

Post by Ashan »

I think if you refreshed your shell at the pipe with the midpoint you could have flown all the way to the end of the level, unless you just knew that it wasn't really the solution and wanted to give it more of a shot
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

Post by Daizo »

I got here to change the title before xfix posted judges comments? What? I'm on a roll! Image
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

Post by Sugar »

49th: Deep within Dunes by Centipede
Koopster
DESIGN: 36/50
CREATIVITY: 26/30
AESTHETICS: 17/20
TOTAL SCORE: 79/100

A really neatly designed level when you look at the individual setups, but the full experience is kind of underwhelming. The level is a bit too mechanical while not being that clever with its elements. The progression of ideas and development of setups is lacking, giving place to detached, "zig-zaggy" setups that are just like that for the sake of it. It's also a little too unforgiving and unpredictable sometimes (first dragon coin is a strong example of a setup that could stand to be more clear on first try). The secret exit forces you to replay the entire outer segment for some reason and it barely adds anything to the level - it's really just another room.

lolyoshi
DESIGN: 47/50
CREATIVITY: 28/30
AESTHETICS: 15/20
TOTAL SCORE: 90/100

"Quick time event" level done really well with very creative setups. Though it starts
off a bit too crazy and some obstacles aren't guaranteed clear.

Noivern
DESIGN: 33/50
CREATIVITY: 18/30
AESTHETICS: 13/20
TOTAL SCORE: 64/100

Many sections of this level require too much of the player's reflexes, especially in the second half. The dragon coins are really nice, but also incredibly easy to miss. The upside down signs and swoopers hanging from midair show lack of polish. Why do I have to go through the whole first section again after getting a hidden 1-up?

By the way, you can slide kill grinders.

Sinc-X
DESIGN: 12/50
CREATIVITY: 13/30
AESTHETICS: 13/20
TOTAL SCORE: 38/100

At its core this level's concepts could have probably been done well, but the execution is severely lacking. It relies way too much on the grey falling platforms to buy artificial length and it's not enjoyable in any circumstance, especially not on the first run through. The enemies are not intuitively placed either which further hurts the experience. The palettes you used (outside in particular) are not super nice either.

Rameau's Nephew
DESIGN: 17/50
CREATIVITY: 11/30
AESTHETICS: 14/20
TOTAL SCORE: 42/100

This level's biggest problem is that it simply doesn't know when to exercise restraint. It's too long, it keeps repeating similar setups again and again, and it tends to magnify conceptually sound obstacles in such a way that they become ambushes one can't be expected to reasonably avoid if one doesn't know they're coming ahead of time (one or two well-placed Swoopers will serve you better than those ridiculous bat walls). And even if you do know what's coming, the length and similarity of the obstacles makes it easy to forget and slip up. What's worse, the level is very stingy on powerups despite its length and ambushed-based nature, meaning one slip up will often force you to slog through the entire thing again. After a while, this makes what should be an action-filled level becomes outright -boring- to play, increasing slip-ups, repetition, and in turn boredom. It's a vicious feedback loop.

I did like the concept of the secret exit path revealing new paths and coin guides in the opening section; that was actually a really cool concept. The secret exit path is a bit less substantial than the main path, but honestly, that's probably a -good- thing, considering the latter is not particularly enjoyable.

The proliferation of eating blocks confused me a bit. In the exterior section, they feel strongly out of place atmospherically and thematically, and they honestly don't seem to fill an important function gameplay-wise. Inside the tomb, they make a bit more logical sense as trap mechanisms, but even then, their main function seems to be to make the player stand around while ambushes happen. They also jank out on occasion.

Æsthetically, the level looks quite good. I think there could be a stronger distinction between the foreground sand and background dunes in the exterior section, but otherwise it looks pleasing, and the sparkles are a nice touch. The interior of the tomb looks even better still, though I question the use of the skull Pokey which has a weird palette and doesn't seem particularly necessary in the first place. The biggest detractor, I think, is the large number of brown used blocks in the level, which seems all the more jarring considering the less-than-stellar way they're used in the level.

+ Nice looking level
+ The retracing your steps part of the secret exit is actually well done.
- A lot of the mechanisms are held together with an amalgam of chewing gum and jank.
- Long, boring, ambushy and repetitive is no way to go through life, my son.

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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

Post by Implo »

So I suspect the reason why eating block wasn't triggered in key route in first few attempts is because raocow jumped on 1st bronze block (which is eating block) instead on jumping on other bronze blocks. I guess standing on eating block doesn't trigger it, it must be normal bronze block.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

Post by Grounder »

joker pokey

a "jokey", if you will
Why don't you eat me?

I am perfectly tasty...

AND I'LL STEAL YOUR SOUL! :twisted:

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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

Post by raocow »

hey so, because vip6 is heading towards nightmare mode, I'm thinking of putting it on hold, put vldcx back into a-side, finish that, and then return to vip6 so I can give it all the time it needs. thoughts?
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - 1F0 IQ = 496 IQ

Post by raekuul »

xfix wrote: 3 years agoThe trick is that at 4:32, you drop the shell where Yoshi is, and step on Yoshi,
I am absolutely unable to visualize this in my head. Do you have a video showing the intended solution in action?
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

Post by Implo »

raocow wrote: 3 years ago hey so, because vip6 is heading towards nightmare mode, I'm thinking of putting it on hold, put vldcx back into a-side, finish that, and then return to vip6 so I can give it all the time it needs. thoughts?
If it's that hard wouldn't be better to play them alternately. First day - VLDCX, next day - VIP6, next day - VLDCX again, etc.
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

Post by raocow »

I mean vldcx is also gonna have real hard moments
I dunno I'd rather do one completely then the other
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

Post by SAJewers »

do vldcx and vip6 and drop sonic adventure 2 then Image
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

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SAJewers wrote: 3 years ago do vldcx and vip6 and drop sonic adventure 2 then Image
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Re: Vanilla Level Design Contest X - So you land on blocks, and then sprite blocks...

Post by Leet »

just do what you were gonna do and dont listen to these "Hooligans"
Well it is a decent hack but sometime its just too repetitif there no level that actually pop in your face and your like oh yeah that level they all ressemble themselves and just monster along the way.
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